The Most Optimal 3on/1off BB program, ever. (srs)

[halotalo]

After a very enlightening conversation, I can confirm this routine is not quite the SOTA, but close to being the SOTA. I have made some slight modifications in the original post; but will not be completely revealing everything. He's an incredible guy, definetly knows what he is talking about, and feel blessed to be able to speak with him

why not reveal everything? might as well help people here and just post it because not everyone here will be able to speak to him and ask his opinions

[spek578]

Yeah I definetly would not recommend this to anybody who isn't doing...ehhh...man this is like totally random guesstimations but

~1.5-2 years of SERIOUS TRAINING ....2.5 - 3 plate bench / 3 - 3.5 plate squat / 2-3 plate Rows / 4.5 -5 plate Deadlifts?

I can't even give you proper estimations; but no don't start on this training lol.

why wouldnt you recommend it? i dont really see anything that would be too difficult or strenuous after getting used to it. ive been training seriously for about a year now and i dont get good gains off of full body, so what would you recommend?

right now im doing a push/pull/legs but i run it as push/legs/pull so that my back isnt shot for squats

(Push)
flat bench 5x5
incline dumbbell presses 3x7
dips 3x10
overhead dumbbell ext 3x10
tricep push down 3x10
rear delt flyes 3x10

(Legs)
*Back Squat 3x5
*Box Front Squat 10x2
standing calf raises 3x10
hamstring curls 3x10

*flip these each workout (ie. front squat 3x5, box back squat 10x2 on the next day and so on)

(pull)
Deadlift [work to max]
Pendlay row 3x5
high pulls 3x5
pull ups 3xFail
curls 3x10

[BradCathie]

Only just realised you replied, calm down lol. I was just giving some honest input from my perspective.

Cbb replying to each of your points atm since I'm at work, maybe later.

[pman312pman312]

When you put the (/) inbetween the bicep and tricep work, and on shoulder day, are you saying to superset them?

Also, could i do db shoulder press instead of military presses, or should i just do military presses, or should i alternate every other week?

[pman312pman312]

My lower chest is very saggy so i may also add decline bench every couple workouts is that a good idea?

[DerekEt]

Yeah it means have them superset, but have like a 1 minute rest in between the exercises. Example:

Barbell curl (1 min) Lying French Press (1 min ) Barbell curl ( 1 min ) Lying French Press (1 min) etc.

Honestly, I only put that there for people who bicker about "short training sessions" . You would save maybe 10 minutes of time doing it this way on Chest/Arms day.

Personally(and what I was recommended to do), I would rather just finish Chest,bang out biceps, then finish off triceps at the end.

Dude, lol, Decline bench doesn't get rid of saggy.

[spek578]

why wouldnt you recommend it? i dont really see anything that would be too difficult or strenuous after getting used to it. ive been training seriously for about a year now and i dont get good gains off of full body, so what would you recommend?

right now im doing a push/pull/legs but i run it as push/legs/pull so that my back isnt shot for squats

(Push)
flat bench 5x5
incline dumbbell presses 3x7
dips 3x10
overhead dumbbell ext 3x10
tricep push down 3x10
rear delt flyes 3x10

(Legs)
*Back Squat 3x5
*Box Front Squat 10x2
standing calf raises 3x10
hamstring curls 3x10

*flip these each workout (ie. front squat 3x5, box back squat 10x2 on the next day and so on)

(pull)
Deadlift [work to max]
Pendlay row 3x5
high pulls 3x5
pull ups 3xFail
curls 3x10

Bump

[johnb92]

I honestly like the look of it OP...

I find myself prefering low frequency HIT style of training, but may give it a go to mix things up after my uni work is done.

also agree with the yates / ronnie rowing style

[pman312pman312]

could i do db shoulder press instead of military presses, or should i just do military presses, or should i alternate every other week?

Bump

[itwasntme184]

Bump

do w.e the phuck u wanna do

military press is more strength oriented cuz of the heavier weight used and less ROM

db's allow more ROM but its harder to move up in weight, its also a unilateral exercise

[DerekEt]

why wouldnt you recommend it? i dont really see anything that would be too difficult or strenuous after getting used to it. ive been training seriously for about a year now and i dont get good gains off of full body, so what would you recommend?

right now im doing a push/pull/legs but i run it as push/legs/pull so that my back isnt shot for squats

(Push)
flat bench 5x5
incline dumbbell presses 3x7
dips 3x10
overhead dumbbell ext 3x10
tricep push down 3x10
rear delt flyes 3x10

(Legs)
*Back Squat 3x5
*Box Front Squat 10x2
standing calf raises 3x10
hamstring curls 3x10

*flip these each workout (ie. front squat 3x5, box back squat 10x2 on the next day and so on)

(pull)
Deadlift [work to max]
Pendlay row 3x5
high pulls 3x5
pull ups 3xFail
curls 3x10

lol, I didn't realize this thread was a "critique my routine" and tell me why I should do yours thread. Idc what you do, it makes no difference to me. I don't like your routine at all, there's no reason for you to be doing 10x2 box squats.... and HEAVY deadlifting the day after Squats is always a no-no to me. Do what you want to do, there's nothing wrong with Legs Push Pull Off.

When you put the (/) inbetween the bicep and tricep work, and on shoulder day, are you saying to superset them?

Also, could i do db shoulder press instead of military presses, or should i just do military presses, or should i alternate every other week?

Yes... those mean superset the arm work, but tbqh IMHO I would just finish biceps then do triceps. It was just for the time-nazi's who want to try and get out in 45 minutes -_-

I would stick with Barbell Shoulder press.... but you can switch it with dumbbells, it doesn't matter...

do w.e the phuck u wanna do

military press is more strength oriented cuz of the heavier weight used and less ROM

db's allow more ROM but its harder to move up in weight, its also a unilateral exercise

lol this. I thought these kind of things were obvious by now O_o

[spek578]

lol, I didn't realize this thread was a "critique my routine" and tell me why I should do yours thread. Idc what you do, it makes no difference to me. I don't like your routine at all, there's no reason for you to be doing 10x2 box squats.... and HEAVY deadlifting the day after Squats is always a no-no to me. Do what you want to do, there's nothing wrong with Legs Push Pull Off.

It wasn't meant to be asking for a critique. In asking why somewhat new lifters shouldn't do your routine I figured that posted my routine would get out the way something you may have asked for anyways.

Sorry for being a bother, but thanks for the advice, I'll try legs push pull. But if you don't mind me asking, why do you say no to 10x2? I find I can get more good form reps that way.

[DerekEt]

If you have to use 2 rep sets to use good form, then you are doing something very wrong. Because you should be using the standard 3x3 or 3x5 for strength at your level right now.

[spek578]

If you have to use 2 rep sets to use good form, then you are doing something very wrong. Because you should be using the standard 3x3 or 3x5 for strength at your level right now.

No I'm not doing anything "very wrong" . Louie Simmons has his lifters do a similar set/rep configuration .

[DerekEt]

Louie Simmons is training 700-1000 pound squatters.

You can barely do 2 plates, so I beg to differ.

[spek578]

Louie Simmons is training 700-1000 pound squatters.

You can barely do 2 plates, so I beg to differ.

But if I'm already doing a 3x5 or 5x5, what's the harm of adding a glute/quad dominant exercise to work on explosiveness?

[DerekEt]

lol you said you alternated 3x5 squats with 10x2 box squats. you should do 3x5 every single day. stop trying to justify yourself, it's just bad programming, idc anymore, do what you want to do. idc srs. I'm honestly really tired of arguing with 2 plate squatters and 1-1.5 plate benchers about irrelevant stuff. If you don't wanna listen, then don't listen. Do what you want to do.

[spek578]

lol you said you alternated 3x5 squats with 10x2 box squats. you should do 3x5 every single day. stop trying to justify yourself, it's just bad programming, idc anymore, do what you want to do. idc srs. I'm honestly really tired of arguing with 2 plate squatters and 1-1.5 plate benchers about irrelevant stuff. If you don't wanna listen, then don't listen. Do what you want to do.

(Legs)
*Back Squat 3x5
*Box Front Squat 10x2
standing calf raises 3x10
hamstring curls 3x10

*flip these each workout (ie. front squat 3x5, box back squat 10x2 on the next day and so on)

Same workout, both exercises, just flipping the bar placement between the two each workout .

[DerekEt]

Ok, that is wonderful that you do 3x5 every session, glad to hear. Looking at your leg session, you would benefit more from doing heavy Stiff/Romanian Deadlifts , not 10x2 squats.

[spek578]

Ok, that is wonderful that you do 3x5 every session, glad to hear. Looking at your leg session, you would benefit more from doing heavy Stiff/Romanian Deadlifts , not 10x2 squats.

Will do. I appreciate the input and i apologize for aggravating you. Naturally I just ask a lot of questions so I can understand and not just blindly follow someone's advice (not saying yours is bad, I just mean in general)

[DerekEt]

ok.

[TW13]

You still didn't answer spek578's question. Why would you not recommend this routine to beginners/people that don't have "1.5-2 years of SERIOUS TRAINING ....2.5 - 3 plate bench / 3 - 3.5 plate squat / 2-3 plate Rows / 4.5 -5 plate Deadlifts"? In your opinion what program would be more "optimal" to people who haven't reached these standards yet?

[agrier9]

Flat Barbell and Incline Dumbbell is performed in every single training routine. No Hammer Strength work is going to be performed; that's just my preference and I don't think anybody on TBB is quite "ready" to decide on using them yet except perhaps 0.01% of them.

how you underestimate tbb

[DerekEt]

You still didn't answer spek578's question. Why would you not recommend this routine to beginners/people that don't have "1.5-2 years of SERIOUS TRAINING ....2.5 - 3 plate bench / 3 - 3.5 plate squat / 2-3 plate Rows / 4.5 -5 plate Deadlifts"? In your opinion what program would be more "optimal" to people who haven't reached these standards yet?

Because your neural adaptation probably sucks and it isn't time to do this kind of training yet? Idk, most people probably would disregard it anyways and just jump on the 3on/1off BB routine anyways lol. I have no idea how results would vary.

how you underestimate tbb

Better safe than sorry. The second you add a Hammer Strength movement, every 95 pound bencher and their friend will be busting out the HS machines,Pec Dec Machines,Cable Crossovers and more lol. I can confirm, you can use HS machine <3

[TW13]

Because your neural adaptation probably sucks and it isn't time to do this kind of training yet? Idk, most people probably would disregard it anyways and just jump on the 3on/1off BB routine anyways lol. I have no idea how results would vary.

Neural adaptation growth pretty much starts to slow down after 1-2 months, as soon as this happens you may aswell switch to a bodybuilding program, not wait 1.5-2 years. I don't see why someone wanting to gain as much size as possible wouldn't do a program that is tailored for that once they have experienced their major strength gains in the first few months of training

[DerekEt]

Neural adaptation growth pretty much starts to slow down after 1-2 months, as soon as this happens you may aswell switch to a bodybuilding program, not wait 1.5-2 years. I don't see why someone wanting to gain as much size as possible wouldn't do a program that is tailored for that once they have experienced their major strength gains in the first few months of training

Not sure if serious.... 1-2 months? lol.

[agrier9]

Not sure if serious.... 1-2 months? lol.

^^this

[Whitekoala]

when u say 3 sets of 6-8 reps for barbell bench. Do u mean 3 working sets or 1-2 warmups then 1 working set. thx

[TW13]

Not sure if serious.... 1-2 months? lol.

Neural adaptation is pretty much at it's peak in the first 4-6 weeks of training when you can gain strength without putting on size, this is when someone should do a strength program and get the basics down. After that it becomes a lot harder to gain strength as rapidly without gaining muscle. My estimation of 1-2 months may be wrong, but 1.5-2 years is ridiculous. I can't see anyone training 1.5-2 years specifically trying to get the best neural adaptation so they have more strength for their muscle size when their main goal is to gain size.

[DerekEt]

when u say 3 sets of 6-8 reps for barbell bench. Do u mean 3 working sets or 1-2 warmups then 1 working set. thx

It is 3 working sets. You change the weight as necessary to get these reps, sometimes you may not even need to change the weight.

This is an actual example of what I did yesterday during Flat Bench Press:

-285x7
-285x6
-275x7

I knew I had to change weights after set 2, because I struggled to get the 6th rep on the second set as it was, and it would have been 4-5 reps if I used it again. If I would have used 280, I could have probably used the same weight all 3 sets, but I am not a wizard and it is not expected for anybody else to be either.Stay in the given rep range the best you can. Also, IMHO it's better to accidentally get 1-2 reps over the rep range, than under. I don't see why anybody should be doing 405x4 squats on this program, when they can just do 375x8 etc.