The Most Optimal 3on/1off BB program, ever. (srs)

[DerekEt]

Perform 8-10 reps with good form to the top, then start cheating the reps , then get half reps, then do a small range of motion at the bottom. Look into John Meadows "Mountain Dog Training" for delts; it will make your Deltoids EXPLODE performing lateral raises like this.

Do Upright Rows with a wider grip and it will hit your side delts more; meaning keep it a bit farther away from your body if you are using DB's.

You can do Hammer Curls if you want, they're a great exercise. However, I use straight oldschool wrist curl and reverse wrist curl 2-4x a week instead.

[douglasmich]

Perform 8-10 reps with good form to the top, then start cheating the reps , then get half reps, then do a small range of motion at the bottom. Look into John Meadows "Mountain Dog Training" for delts; it will make your Deltoids EXPLODE performing lateral raises like this.

Do Upright Rows with a wider grip and it will hit your side delts more; meaning keep it a bit farther away from your body if you are using DB's.

You can do Hammer Curls if you want, they're a great exercise. However, I use straight oldschool wrist curl and reverse wrist curl 2-4x a week instead.

What do you mean on the chest arms workout ?
Are those arm exercises of super sets ??? Or do you choose an even amount of TRI and BI??


And I'm looking to cut but I really want to try this , should I postpone my cut and test this out? Or just cut on legs push pull and keep raping my delts

[DoWorkSon515]

Perform 8-10 reps with good form to the top, then start cheating the reps , then get half reps, then do a small range of motion at the bottom. Look into John Meadows "Mountain Dog Training" for delts; it will make your Deltoids EXPLODE performing lateral raises like this.

Do Upright Rows with a wider grip and it will hit your side delts more; meaning keep it a bit farther away from your body if you are using DB's.

You can do Hammer Curls if you want, they're a great exercise. However, I use straight oldschool wrist curl and reverse wrist curl 2-4x a week instead.

aware me on the mountain dog lateral raises.

Also, I'm running PHAT right now, and if you're familiar with it, you know that the last 3 training days of a PHAT cycle are the same as what you have here. I will consider switching to this routine because those are my favorite 3 days. I absolutely hate upper power day and I really don't lower power, low rep leg extensions/leg curls seems pretty useless IMO. What are your thoughts?

[Gregthegiant]

I don't understand the difference between this and push/pull/legs...

[AmazinJason]

yeah, I meant in the span of 7 days, you train everything twice, if you understand what I mean

Day1- chest/arms
Day2- legs
Day3- delts/back
day4-off
day5-chest/arms
day6-legs
day7-delts/back

as you can see, you trained everything twice in a 1 week/7 day period.

That is not the standard way people refer to training frequency.

Cuz the next week, you would be doing:

Day 1: Off
Day 2: Chest/Arms
Day 3: Legs
Day 4: Delts/Back
Day 5: Off
Day 6: Chest/Arms
Day 7: Legs

The 2nd session of Delts/Back wouldn't happen until day 8.

Any split that has you going 3 on, 1 off is generally considered 2x every 8 days. If you go by how you are referring to it, it would be 1x every 3 days, but clearly that is not the case, as it is 1x every 4 days.

I know this is frivolous, but it is what it is.

[Hamzzza]

That is not the standard way people refer to training frequency.

Cuz the next week, you would be doing:

Day 1: Off
Day 2: Chest/Arms
Day 3: Legs
Day 4: Delts/Back
Day 5: Off
Day 6: Chest/Arms
Day 7: Legs

The 2nd session of Delts/Back wouldn't happen until day 8.

Any split that has you going 3 on, 1 off is generally considered 2x every 8 days. If you go by how you are referring to it, it would be 1x every 3 days, but clearly that is not the case, as it is 1x every 4 days.

I know this is frivolous, but it is what it is.

yes, this lol

[Lendogg]

Took a quick glance.

No normal squats, no normal deadlifts. Son are you srs?

Pls go. If you think you cant build your legs without back squats and back without conventional deadlifts you are retarded.

[Newmanzz]

Opinions on doing deadlifts after front squats instead of romanian deadlifts on the 1st leg workout and replacing front squats on the 2nd workout with back squats.

[bravo96]

Took a quick glance.

No normal squats, no normal deadlifts. Son are you srs?

lol i wasnt aware this was a powerlifting routine.

[makebankbro]

how often should you add weight for your main lifts like bench , squat, etc?

[Lendogg]

Opinions on doing deadlifts after front squats instead of romanian deadlifts on the 1st leg workout and replacing front squats on the 2nd workout with back squats.

I do deadlift after front squats on my leg day... I havent had issues with it

[DoWorkSon515]

Highly considering jumping off PHAT and trying this because of the frequency. 6DAW though, scared of overtraining. What do

[mdolan18]

Question came up earlier and I have yet to see it answered. When doing arm exercises or anything else with a / are those supposed to be super setted? Or is there some other meaning behind the slashes?

[DerekEt]

What do you mean on the chest arms workout ?
Are those arm exercises of super sets ??? Or do you choose an even amount of TRI and BI??


And I'm looking to cut but I really want to try this , should I postpone my cut and test this out? Or just cut on legs push pull and keep raping my delts

You alternate Bicep and Tricep exercise back and forth.... Curl (1 min rest ) , Extension (1 min rest ), Curl, etc. You can just do all biceps then triceps; it's just to cut time. Do whatever you want to do......

aware me on the mountain dog lateral raises.

Also, I'm running PHAT right now, and if you're familiar with it, you know that the last 3 training days of a PHAT cycle are the same as what you have here. I will consider switching to this routine because those are my favorite 3 days. I absolutely hate upper power day and I really don't lower power, low rep leg extensions/leg curls seems pretty useless IMO. What are your thoughts?

You basically just keep going way past failure by not raising all the way up. 1/2-1/4th reps and cheating is fine, you can end up getting 20-50 reps with something you can only do 8-10 times. Do what you want.

I don't understand the difference between this and push/pull/legs...

Then you must be blind.

That is not the standard way people refer to training frequency.

Cuz the next week, you would be doing:

Day 1: Off
Day 2: Chest/Arms
Day 3: Legs
Day 4: Delts/Back
Day 5: Off
Day 6: Chest/Arms
Day 7: Legs

The 2nd session of Delts/Back wouldn't happen until day 8.

Any split that has you going 3 on, 1 off is generally considered 2x every 8 days. If you go by how you are referring to it, it would be 1x every 3 days, but clearly that is not the case, as it is 1x every 4 days.

I know this is frivolous, but it is what it is.

You are correct; it's essentially still 2x/week .

Pls go. If you think you cant build your legs without back squats and back without conventional deadlifts you are retarded.

Opinions on doing deadlifts after front squats instead of romanian deadlifts on the 1st leg workout and replacing front squats on the 2nd workout with back squats.

Uhhh .... I wouldn't do normal DL's. Ummm, you can alternate squats ya

how often should you add weight for your main lifts like bench , squat, etc?

As often as possible

Highly considering jumping off PHAT and trying this because of the frequency. 6DAW though, scared of overtraining. What do

lol ? you won't get overtrained. it's in your head.

Question came up earlier and I have yet to see it answered. When doing arm exercises or anything else with a / are those supposed to be super setted? Or is there some other meaning behind the slashes?

Answered earlier.

[KrazyEyezKillah]

Quality post. Not doing 3 on 1 off currently due to being so damn busy at work and school, but I did it for months and loved it. It is the way to go. We seem to agree on several points.

3 on 1 off > other
Front squat > back
Benching > other anterior delt movement

[ThickSoIid]

I'm going to do something like Matt Ogus but with this routine and have 2 different routines on the days, so Legs A workout on Tuesday then Legs B on Saturday, what do you think because I'm going to have like back squats on Legs A and Sumo Deadlifts on B, and change some exercises each A or B workout.

[AdamNW]

this is basically the hypertrophy part of PHAT...

but why do you do both incline db and bb? seems a bit redundant imo

this ^



it looks good though.

[FeelTheFear]

Ethan , whats your opinion on Pendlay Rows vs Bent over BB rows? Pendlay Rows mainly for strength and bent over rows for size

dumbbell rows

[DerekEt]

Quality post. Not doing 3 on 1 off currently due to being so damn busy at work and school, but I did it for months and loved it. It is the way to go. We seem to agree on several points.

3 on 1 off > other
Front squat > back
Benching > other anterior delt movement

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ x 10. And ironically you have very good progress; funny how that turns out eh heh

[NZninja101]

In! I would do a few things differently, but that is purely out of preference, ie exercise selection and order.

lol~

3 on / 1 off

Day 1 : Chest/Arms

-Incline Barbell Bench 3x6-8
-Incline Dumbbell Bench 3x8-10
-Flat Barbell Bench 3x6-8
-Flat Dumbbell Flye 3x8-10
-Barbell Curl 3x6-8 / Lying French Press 3x6-8
-Incline Dumbbell Curl 3x8-10 / Tricep Pushdown 3x8-10
-Preacher Curl 3x8-10 / Overhead Extension 3x8-10

I just think it might be a good idea to have an exercise that you go quite heavy on, 5 reps. Just 1. I'm not a strength program fanboy but I reckon 1 movement of heavyness would be good for hitting them strength range fibers.

Day 2 : Legs/Calves

-Front Squats 3x6-8
-Leg Press 3x8-10
-Leg Extension / Leg Curl 3x8-10
-Romanian Deadlift 3x6-8

-Calf Press 3x10-20
-Standing Calf Raise 3x20
-Seated Calf Raise 3x6-10

Lots of calf volume. A shiitload. Supersetting leg extensions with leg curls is a good way to save time but if you're talking about swapping one for the other every second leg session then I reckon it would be better to do leg curls every time you do legs. Hits dem hammies in a way that deadlift variants can't quite do. I still reckon the 1 movement for maybe 5 reps would be nice.

Day 3 : Back/Delts

-Barbell Row 3x6-8
-Weighted Pullup 3x8-10
-Cable Row 3x8-10
-TBAR Row 3x8-10 (Dumbbell Row if heavy enough DB's)

Unless you have a good MMC and are using one of these rows to hit the lats primarily, then it looks like too much inner back, not enough lats.

-Military Press 3x6-8
-Upright Row 3x8-10
-Side/Rear Lateral 3x8-10

*Face Pulls performed @ end for shoulder health

Workout Duration : 45-60 minutes

I'm not sure if the facepulls at the end are necessary for shoulder health considering you're doing bent over raises. But it probably wouldn't hurt.

#1. Chest should be trained with Triceps to avoid overtraining them on this kind of frequency; anecdotally when people do Triceps 24-36 hours before Chest in high volume training,their bench will suffer or the recovery will not be adequate. (An example is the Chest/Back,Legs,Delts/Arms,Off routine) However, this allows one to train Chest & triceps together, while ALSO..

I think training triceps with shoulders or chest is helpful rather than giving them their own day, along with a chest and shoulder day, and probably overworking them.



Enjoyed reading the OP tho.

[DerekEt]

NZNinja - That is exactly what the Incline Barbell was for. You suggested it be an exercise that you do 5 reps on. I wrote 6 reps. Lol, does the 1 rep make that much of a difference? 6-8 reps means you can go 7,6,6 for example. That's pretty brutally heavy for an Incline Bench movement, it means you are using ~80%+ to failure; the difference between 5 reps and 6 reps is...meh. But yeah lolz

Also, the Leg Extensions and Leg curls are done every time, they are not alternated every training session. It's done just like arms, Leg Extensions (1 min rest) Legs Curls ( 1 min rest ) Leg Extensions (1 min rest), etc; it is to save time but I mean if you want to do it separate then it's whatever. You get 2 minutes rest doing it this way anyways. Once again Front Squats and Deadlifts are being trained in the lower rep range, it shouldn't be a big deal to worry about 6 reps versus 5 reps.

Face Pulls are more for int/ext rotation for the Rotator Cuffs; not really for rear delts, although it hits rear/side delts anyways.

I'm confused what you were saying about the Chest/Delt/Tri comment. On this plan, Chest IS paired with triceps, separately from Shoulders. What ya mean? hah

[NZninja101]

NZNinja - That is exactly what the Incline Barbell was for. You suggested it be an exercise that you do 5 reps on. I wrote 6 reps. Lol, does the 1 rep make that much of a difference? 6-8 reps means you can go 7,6,6 for example. That's pretty brutally heavy for an Incline Bench movement, it means you are using ~80%+ to failure; the difference between 5 reps and 6 reps is...meh. But yeah lolz

call it a preference thing then. It's not a big deal but it's the biggest problem I have with the routine. But considering that it's not a huge deal, it means I basically think there's not really much to improve here.

Also, the Leg Extensions and Leg curls are done every time, they are not alternated every training session. It's done just like arms, Leg Extensions (1 min rest) Legs Curls ( 1 min rest ) Leg Extensions (1 min rest), etc; it is to save time but I mean if you want to do it separate then it's whatever. You get 2 minutes rest doing it this way anyways. Once again Front Squats and Deadlifts are being trained in the lower rep range, it shouldn't be a big deal to worry about 6 reps versus 5 reps.

that's good

Face Pulls are more for int/ext rotation for the Rotator Cuffs; not really for rear delts, although it hits rear/side delts anyways.

I should probably not be so lazy with the external rotations

I'm confused what you were saying about the Chest/Delt/Tri comment. On this plan, Chest IS paired with triceps, separately from Shoulders. What ya mean? hah

I'm saying you could train triceps with chest, or you could alternatively do it with shoulders, but giving them a separate day is probably not a good idea, (depending on the structure of the routine), as it could lead to overworking the triceps if you're already working shoulders and chest on different days, (if you don't do any pressing for shoulders then I guess you could work triceps the day after shoulders though)

[Hamzzza]

just saying, personally i have a huge difference in adding strength between 3-5 and 6-8 rep schemes

with 3-5 it's 99% better chance of not plateauing and adding weight/reps from workout to workout

just my personal experience

[IASONA]

This may be abit off topic, but how much of a difference is there working each muscle group every 4th day (like this routine) vs working each muscle every 5th day?

[DerekEt]

I'm saying you could train triceps with chest, or you could alternatively do it with shoulders, but giving them a separate day is probably not a good idea, (depending on the structure of the routine), as it could lead to overworking the triceps if you're already working shoulders and chest on different days, (if you don't do any pressing for shoulders then I guess you could work triceps the day after shoulders though)

Yeah but in this routine you do Chest and Triceps together, so what are you talking about in general?

[DerekEt]

just saying, personally i have a huge difference in adding strength between 3-5 and 6-8 rep schemes

with 3-5 it's 99% better chance of not plateauing and adding weight/reps from workout to workout

just my personal experience

yeah, my strength exploded using the 3-5 rep range but I got no size out of it whatsoever. 3x5 + accessory would have helped with that though, but it's all a preference thing. If I was on a bodybuilder routine, I feel 6-8 is the best way to go to keep it real heavy with lower reps. 6 reps can come out to be ~85% of your 1RM, that's pretty brutal.

[DerekEt]

This may be abit off topic, but how much of a difference is there working each muscle group every 4th day (like this routine) vs working each muscle every 5th day?

Well I mean over the course of a training year, if you calculated it, you would have been hitting each muscle group less than doing it every 72 hours. Idk how to answer this ?

[kirksofcuz]

As DerekET knows I do a split similar to this posted in the routine critique thread. These are the splits I like and believe to be the most optimal. Can't go wrong with this imo.

[itwasntme184]

As DerekET knows I do a split similar to this posted in the routine critique thread. These are the splits I like and believe to be the most optimal. Can't go wrong with this imo.

stfu i swear to god the next person who says optimal...

[DerekEt]

As DerekET knows I do a split similar to this posted in the routine critique thread. These are the splits I like and believe to be the most optimal. Can't go wrong with this imo.

yep you just can't go wrong

stfu i swear to god the next person who says optimal...

died. maybe I can get a moderator to take optimal out of the thread title lmao~