Squat problems

[Sen8or]

I have been doing squats for about 10months now, but for the life of me, I just can't get any decent sort of depth with my squat. It goes to almost parallel sometimes, but normally above.

Here is my most recent efforts



I have gone up and down on the weight a few times to try and get more depth, but each time it comes back to the same level.

I try and squat down with just the bar, same depth. I can not squat past parallel without my heels coming off the ground and/or grabbing the rack to help with balance.

My issues are multiple I think

Hip flexibility
Calf/ankle flexibility
Balance issues?

Any tips etc to help me get these and any other issues you might notice would be much appreciated. I have other clips if needed, all are pretty similar though

Cheers

[mellie369]

Put a 2 x 4 under ur heels if u havent tried that yet!

[-=FLEX=-]

Try holding onto the uprights on your squat rack then squatting ATG with no weight on your back at all.

Then do this with just the bar.

Then add some weight.

Rinse and repeat.

I do this every squat session.

[drudixon]

What's your inseam? Crazy long legs you've got there . I like flex's idea. You need to learn to squat on your heels. The forward lean is increasing the amount you have to stretch. Get your weight on your heels and squat more upright and you should be fine.

[geer_matt]

Okay so you know you need to get deeper. This leaves us with the question of getting flexible. I will use a stick (or what ever is available around the gym) and hold it up over my head like in a finished snatch position then squat down as far as I can go. Stretch a lot too. Use lower weight until you get more flexible. Form definitely trumps weight when squatting. I use a wider grip on the bar when squatting too, it helps me with my balance. I am not sure if it is an issue with taller guys or not but it helps me a ton. Stronger ab muscles will help with getting deeper too, it helps you stabalize.

[Getsum]

Box squats and pausing at the bottom have both helped me. Also, watching FLEX's squat vids have helped as well, check out his journal when you get a chance.

Here's one of my box squat vids:


Here's a vid of me pausing at the bottom.


Also, just getting down in a squat position and trying to hold it really helps me.

I also have this checklist on the wall, I read it before squatting.



I no expert, my squats have a long ass ways to go...so does my deadlift, my bench, my shoulder press, my rows, etc. About the only thing I'm really good at is cheat meals.

Anyway, keep squatting man and take it one workout at a time.

[JerryB]

You have long thighs and long lower legs. You might try squatting only with the bar to practice descending with your knees moving a bit more forward and concentrate on your heels and mid foot supporting your weight.If you stop the video in the down position you will note the bar is well in front of your center of gravity. You are attempting to balance the load with the front of your feet because the weight is too far forward. It's almost in line with your knees. On the ascend you are using your back to return to the starting position. Again I think this is due to the load being too far in front of your center of gravity. In addition if you are going to squat with the bar in the high shoulder position, bodybuilder style like Tom Platz, your upper body should be more upright on the descend and ascend. This position will minimize the forward knee movement to bring the bar load closer to your center of gravity.

[crupiea]

Try fiddling with the bar placement and your stance.

I can almost bet that a bit wider stance with your toes pointing outward a bit more will solve this problem.

Its not fair to say you cant do it. You can do it but something in your form is preventing it.

I would start with pointing your toes out more.

[Quigley2013]

It's hard to tell from the video...but it also looks like you have the bar pretty high (closer to you neck than sitting on your traps) It may explain why the weight seem to be pushing you a bit forward with a straight bar...

Try getting the bar a bit further back (lower)

Edit...ooops, I just read the entire thread...looks like Jerry already pointed out bar position...

[antmun]

You definitely have mobility issues in the areas you specified. My advice is to take care of that. Go to Mobilitywod.com and start working on the areas needed. Good luck!

[jdtemple]

It takes a LOT of trial and error to find the right squatting form for you.

There are two main things that keep people from getting some good squat depth.

1) Too much weight on the bar.

2) Not enough flexibility.

My problem was both.

JerryB is right. You've got some forward lean there and it is shifting your weight up to your toes.

What you really need to work on is flexibility. Do you do lots of stretching? Lots of hamstring and hip mobility stretches worked wonders for me.

Lead the movement with your hips & butt. Don't start by bending your knees. Don't even think about bending your knees. Push your butt back and sit. Your knees will follow automatically. This is a hip movement; not a knee movement.

Do not let yourself lean forward. You will lean forward a little. There's no getting around that. But, the concentration should be on sitting down and back.

When you're doing it right, you'll feel like you're sitting back on your heels. I'm not sure how to explain this. When you squat, you sit down into your thighs & hips, all while keeping your weight back on your heels and your knees spread out. It should feel like your heels and the outside of your feet are driving into the ground.

I fixed my form. It took forever. The weights I squat with are pretty laughable. But, I get some kickin' DOMS and nobody would be able to say I'm not going deep enough. Good enough for me!

[ilovethe80s]

Are you high or low bar squatting? It looks to me like a wide-stance high bar? I could see how it might be a real challenge to meet depth with that. Either way, try goblet squatting with a dumbbell and also hoding this stretch:



It looks like right now, your squat is initiated with a knee bend, and hips drop straight down before going back. Start by pushing back the hips and driving the knees out hard. If you push the knees out, they shouldn't come forward so much. And you should have some nice space for your torso to drop as you are pushing back. Spread the floor and keep the tension on the heel and outsides of your shoes as your knees spread, and make sure your barbell stays in a straight line (if it goes back with your hips, you fall back). You are doing an awesome job staying upright on the descent (so it starts off looking high bar), but the bar goes forward of center of gravity at the bottom, which to me looks you are still trying to get depth at that point by ducking a bit with the bar, as opposed to torso being weak? Either way, begin the ascent by driving traps into the bar.

If you are high-barring (which it looks like by the bar position and straight torso drop), forward knee travel is expected but you still need to create room for the torso to drop into, so the above would still apply somewhat. Also, if you want to high bar, you'll probably find it a lot easier to hit depth if you bring your stance in. A wide stance high bar, even if you are flexible, is going to be really hard to get any sort of depth.

Also, on your set-up - the rack position looks a little high, like you have to get up on your toe a bit to get it out of the rack. If possible, try lowering it a notch so you can just arch the bar out of the rack instead (and keep the weight on your posterior for the whole squat, from the set up to the re-rack.)

Hope that helps, I honestly think your problem is equally mobility, and trying to combine a high/low bar squat in all the wrong places

[Jrob69]

Is there a benefit to squatting with no footwear?

[Getsum]

Are you high or low bar squatting? It looks to me like a wide-stance high bar? I could see how it might be a real challenge to meet depth with that. Either way, try goblet squatting with a dumbbell and also hoding this stretch:



It looks like right now, your squat is initiated with a knee bend, and hips drop straight down before going back. Start by pushing back the hips and driving the knees out hard. If you push the knees out, they shouldn't come forward so much. And you should have some nice space for your torso to drop as you are pushing back. Spread the floor and keep the tension on the heel and outsides of your shoes as your knees spread, and make sure your barbell stays in a straight line (if it goes back with your hips, you fall back). You are doing an awesome job staying upright on the descent (so it starts off looking high bar), but the bar goes forward of center of gravity at the bottom, which to me looks you are still trying to get depth at that point by ducking a bit with the bar, as opposed to torso being weak? Either way, begin the ascent by driving traps into the bar.

If you are high-barring (which it looks like by the bar position and straight torso drop), forward knee travel is expected but you still need to create room for the torso to drop into, so the above would still apply somewhat. Also, if you want to high bar, you'll probably find it a lot easier to hit depth if you bring your stance in. A wide stance high bar, even if you are flexible, is going to be really hard to get any sort of depth.

Also, on your set-up - the rack position looks a little high, like you have to get up on your toe a bit to get it out of the rack. If possible, try lowering it a notch so you can just arch the bar out of the rack instead (and keep the weight on your posterior for the whole squat, from the set up to the re-rack.)

Hope that helps, I honestly think your problem is equally mobility, and trying to combine a high/low bar squat in all the wrong places

That has got to be one of the best squat critiques I've ever read on this site. I'd rep you but I'm still on spread.

[Sen8or]

So much quality stuff, thanks all.

From what I have seen in here, consensus seems to be bar too high, pushing me forward onto my toes and then exaggerating the problem leaning forward.

Will again swallow my humble pills and cut the weight right back (not that there was that much to cut back, maxed out at 82kgs).

I like the suggestion of a 4x2 under my heels, but hunk that might be dressing up the problem rather than addressing it.

Rack is fully adjustable, so will drop the height down a bit as suggested.

That was my first time squatting in that rack, all others to date have been without any failure protection. This has put a bit of a fear in my head about falling backwards, so looks like I have been over compensating for that.

Will try some of the suggestions in here and report back, with vid for form check again.

[ironwill2008]

I can not squat past parallel without my heels coming off the ground and/or grabbing the rack to help with balance.

Lack of flexibility is your problem. Here's the cure:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=123273471





As far as bar placement is concerned, you can Squat high-bar, which puts the bar right on your center of gravity, allowing you to stay a bit more upright (thus putting a bit more of the work on the quads) as most bodybuilders do.

Or, you can Squat low-bar, which moves the bar slightly forward of your COG, bringing more of the very strong glues/hams into action, allowing you to handle a bit more weight. This is the style most often used by powerlifters and others training for strength moreso than quad mass.

Either bar position though, will require you to increase your flexibility.





Don't try to get around the problem by propping your heels up on a board or weight plates. This only treats the symptom, and not the problem, and will cause other, additional problems.

[mellie369]

If you google squats, you will see pros using plates under their heels when they squat too (google arnold squat). Yes, it is just an aid and yes, it wont fix your flexibilty issues (which need to be worked on as well) but it is a stepping stone. As for it creating other problems... Well, i have never seen research on that so i cant comment. But i do believe a solid deep squat with a lift under your heels will do better than spending the next 6 months squatting badly while you work on your flexibility. I had originally said a piece of wood but you can easily use 10 lbs plates. Charles Poliquin has had his own board made for this. Anyways, ur squat means nothing in my life so there is my advice, take it or leave it! I dont mind! Haha!

So much quality stuff, thanks all.

From what I have seen in here, consensus seems to be bar too high, pushing me forward onto my toes and then exaggerating the problem leaning forward.

Will again swallow my humble pills and cut the weight right back (not that there was that much to cut back, maxed out at 82kgs).

I like the suggestion of a 4x2 under my heels, but hunk that might be dressing up the problem rather than addressing it.

Rack is fully adjustable, so will drop the height down a bit as suggested.

That was my first time squatting in that rack, all others to date have been without any failure protection. This has put a bit of a fear in my head about falling backwards, so looks like I have been over compensating for that.

Will try some of the suggestions in here and report back, with vid for form check again.

[JerryB]

The following is another good squat flexibility exercise.

[Most Muscular]

some peoples frames are made for squatting and some aren't. For myself, being short does have its advantages at times. I took a lot of instruction about squatting, deadlifts, and benching from a former National powerlifter and he gave me a lot of small tips that in the end proved to be very valuable when combined together. They easily added 50 pounds to my squat immediately when tried.

One thing I see happen with most people when they squat is that they tend to start leaning over more and more with each rep. By the end of the set they are starting their rep (in the standing position) already leaned over somewhat. That lean just gets worse as they descend. I was taught to push my hips forward before each set. Start the set with your back straight and try to keep the hips forward as long as possible during the descent. At some point they will have to go out but during the time you keep them forward your back will remain straight and true. It puts a lot less strain on your lower back. I cringe when I watch most people squat because they are leaning over so much. When I did squat I was able to keep my back in a pretty much straight orientation throughout the cycle.

I also placed the bar lower on my back instead of up on my neck. If you are finding yourself leaning over having the weight on your neck means you are fighting more weight trying to push you more into the lean. I found for myself that placing the weight a bit lower out the weight in a perfect vertical alignment with my hips and feet and the weight followed that vertical path. It didn't go forward or backward from that vertical plane and I was then able to push the weight up and not have to try and balance the weight out ahead of me.

I hope this may help.

nuff said...

[ilovethe80s]

some peoples frames are made for squatting and some aren't. For myself, being short does have its advantages at times. I took a lot of instruction about squatting, deadlifts, and benching from a former National powerlifter and he gave me a lot of small tips that in the end proved to be very valuable when combined together. They easily added 50 pounds to my squat immediately when tried.

One thing I see happen with most people when they squat is that they tend to start leaning over more and more with each rep. By the end of the set they are starting their rep (in the standing position) already leaned over somewhat. That lean just gets worse as they descend. I was taught to push my hips forward before each set. Start the set with your back straight and try to keep the hips forward as long as possible during the descent. At some point they will have to go out but during the time you keep them forward your back will remain straight and true. It puts a lot less strain on your lower back. I cringe when I watch most people squat because they are leaning over so much. When I did squat I was able to keep my back in a pretty much straight orientation throughout the cycle.

I also placed the bar lower on my back instead of up on my neck. If you are finding yourself leaning over having the weight on your neck means you are fighting more weight trying to push you more into the lean. I found for myself that placing the weight a bit lower out the weight in a perfect vertical alignment with my hips and feet and the weight followed that vertical path. It didn't go forward or backward from that vertical plane and I was then able to push the weight up and not have to try and balance the weight out ahead of me.

I hope this may help.

nuff said...

Just want to clarify for the OP that these instructions^^, with the emphasis on maintaining an erect torso and more vertical drop of the hips, soundlike a high bar squat - and that when he re-attempts his squats, he'd be better off to choose which style to use and not try combining the two at this point.

If OP is going for a low bar squat, forward 'leaning' isn't a bad thing, and it would be necessary as long as the bar path is straight and not migrating forward, and chest stays lifted. Also for a low bar, he definitely won't want his hips to be forward on the descent, the whole power for a low bar squat comes from the hips. The hips need to go way back starting from the beginning of the lift if he chooses the low bar squat.

Sorry Most Muscular, don't mean to contradict you and obviously what you are doing works for you and you know how to train - just don't want the OP to start blending squat styles end up right back in the same spot

and the famous squat pic: (front, high bar, low bar)

[paulch71]

There are alot of really good ideas here. I might suggest that you not only experiment with what others have said here, including stretching but also try hack squats. I find I can go deeper with these then regular squats. Just a thought.

[Phattso]

In my opinion, from what I see, is that you are not arching your back enough. You need to almost exaggerate an arch to make sure you're not placing undue stress on your lower back. By not arching your back, it makes you almost do a cross between Good Mornings and Squats. That is what you are doing. This inhibits any progress.

Re-Train yourself with very low weights to work on form. Arch the hell out of your back, keep chin up, and when you get to where you think you cannot go lower, slightly relax your quads. When you feel your hams against your calves, you are below parallel, which is good.

[TyronK]

Some good information by ilovethe80's especially about hybridizing high bar and low bar placement with foot stances,

To put some of the information here together, from reading some posts in the Powerlifting forum, with a higher bar placement and narrower stance, a raised heel may help. Lifting shoes usually come with raised heels. Placing plates under your heels may work but the one thing I don't like about that is the potential for too much fumbling around backing out of the rack.

With a lower bar placement and wider stance, the raised heel seems less beneficial. Flat soles shoes like Chuck Taylors appear to be a favorite.

[philipj]

For some of us ATG squats are not possible. I believe many of us have a fear of going so low we could not recover the squat. That is the reason I straddle the lowest bench in the gym. That way I know that I am going as low as the bench each and every time, as opposed to decreasing the low end of the squat as a lifter tires.

[Sen8or]

Ok,

so this week I have been practising squatting empty, really angled my lower legs out (I wont say "feet" as I am trying to go from the knees out) and really pushing out with my knees as opposed to forward.

see here



and


(sorry for the butt-view)

As you can see, depth is better, but now need more practice with balance and depth. Tried a bar and 10kgs (so 17kgs all up, just short of oly bar weight), immediately went back to old depth (well, a fraction more, but not much), so still more practice and stretching needed.

Does the adjustments made so far look like I'm going in the right direction (back angle, weight distribution etc)?

Cheers again
Sen

[charliedrake]

Going to low just blows out the knees anyway.

[ironwill2008]

Does the adjustments made so far look like I'm going in the right direction (back angle, weight distribution etc)?

Cheers again
Sen

Stay with it, and keep working on your flexibility.

Get a bar with at least a little weight on your back. Body weight Squats aren't going to help much; you need to work on bar placement, arm positioning, keeping your head up, etc.

Going to low just blows out the knees anyway.

lol

[drudixon]

Going to low just blows out the knees anyway.

O rly????


Not even going to tackle this one...

[-=FLEX=-]

Going to low just blows out the knees anyway.

Strong 2rd post.

[ilovethe80s]

Look how straight your shins are in that first vid - that's awesome. Big improvement in such a short amount of time. I agree that you should try your 'weightless' squats with an empty barbell. And maybe when doing your air squats around the house (as part of flexibility/ stretching), if you feel like you are getting too accustomed to leaning forward so much, try them with your arms overhead so you get used to the upright torso and lifted chest. Looks like you are headed in the right direction to me