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  1. #1
    Registered User CheslinK's Avatar
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    Linear or Specific for Deadlift?

    Edit: I've got no other experienced lifters around me, or powerlifting gyms. Korea is absent of any of that ****, and they are few and far between, most of them speak little to no English if they are around. I'm new to powerlifting, but I'm trying to study this ****. If ask what some people might consider stupid questions it is only because I'm trying to get better at lifting. This is my only outlet. If I could go ask this dumb **** to someone who knew what the **** they were doing I'd sure as hell not be on here.
    ----------------
    I'd like my deadlift to be significantly higher than my squat. Current squat is 405 and deadlift unsure... 375 was last time I checked. Was gutted after 4-5 hr workout so could have gotten more, probably on par with my squat.

    I'm finishing Smolov now, and of course my deadlift will have increased. The past two times I've run linear programs I've gained 30-50lbs on both. I figure the same will happen if I do another 8 week run.
    ----------------
    1. Would I be better off sticking to something a less specific like Madcows, or could I get more off of a program like Coan/Phillipi? If that only promises 40-50 lbs in 10 weeks I might as well stick to a full program and progress with everything.

    2. I'm also wondering the best leverage for my body type... it seems most guys my height/weight class stick to sumo. I squat wide. Would it be better for me to also pull wide? I've tried sumo and I blow at it. Should I make the leap and start over? O_o
    Last edited by CheslinK; 11-30-2012 at 02:31 PM.
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  2. #2
    Registered User timmzzy1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CheslinK View Post
    Linear or Specific?
    I'd like my deadlift to be significantly higher than my squat. Current squat is 405 and deadlift unsure... 375 was last time I checked. Was gutted after 4-5 hr workout so could have gotten more, probably on par with my squat.

    I'm finishing Smolov now, and of course my deadlift will have increased. The past two times I've run linear programs I've gained 30-50lbs on both. I figure the same will happen if I do another 8 week run.
    ----------------
    1. Would I be better off sticking to that, or could I get more off of a program like Coan/Phillipi? If that only promises 40-50 lbs in 10 weeks I might as well stick to linear and progress with everything.

    2. I'm also wondering the best leverage for my body type... it seems most guys my height/weight class stick to sumo. I squat wide. Would it be better for me to also pull wide? I've tried sumo and I blow at it. Should I make the leap and start over? O_o
    1- i wouldnt recomend the coan/phillipi program, especialy straight after smolov, i failed on week 4, and its very rare fore someone to get that much out of the program, its more for lifters that cant use linear progression anymore

    2- you didnt say your height or weight, but im 6'4 and pull conventional and squat extremely wide

    I also dont think you will get that much out of a linear progression program if you got that much out of the others
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  3. #3
    Banned LeachGymRat's Avatar
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    Keep it simple, stupid.
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  4. #4
    Registered User CheslinK's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by timmzzy1 View Post
    1- i wouldnt recomend the coan/phillipi program, especialy straight after smolov, i failed on week 4, and its very rare fore someone to get that much out of the program, its more for lifters that cant use linear progression anymore

    2- you didnt say your height or weight, but im 6'4 and pull conventional and squat extremely wide

    I also dont think you will get that much out of a linear progression program if you got that much out of the others
    Hell no, I wouldn't progress into it immediately. I would still do the switching phase before moving on... I definitely will need the rest.

    We shall see I guess. At the moment it's feeling like I can take a slightly modified 5x5 linear to 500.

    My stats are under my name and picture. 5'7" 170 lbs, currently squatting wide and pulling conventional.
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  5. #5
    Registered User runtocatch's Avatar
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    I'm not even gonna look cuz I could care less but how can one not understand that Ed's programming is always linear. I may be wrong about this particular mythical program cuz I've never even seen it but I seriously doubt it.

    Edit to say I cant help it, gotta go find it now.

    Edit again to say.....Wow, what do ya know, its a linear program with a slight deload in the middle of it. Strange.
    Last edited by runtocatch; 11-30-2012 at 11:03 AM.
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  6. #6
    Bicepticus Maximus InspecktaDeck's Avatar
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    How can you squat 405 and pull under 400? Im curious.
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  7. #7
    dlt rocks my socks arian11's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by InspecktaDeck View Post
    How can you squat 405 and pull under 400? Im curious.
    There is a whole thread dedicated to it with videos of him squatting high.
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  8. #8
    Registered User androstan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by InspecktaDeck View Post
    How can you squat 405 and pull under 400? Im curious.
    He probably isn't. From OP it sounds like, if he did a fresh dl 1rm today, it would be higher than 405.

    Another explanation would be failing to even get close to parallel.
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  9. #9
    Registered User CheslinK's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by runtocatch View Post
    I'm not even gonna look cuz I could care less but how can one not understand that Ed's programming is always linear. I may be wrong about this particular mythical program cuz I've never even seen it but I seriously doubt it.

    Edit to say I cant help it, gotta go find it now.

    Edit again to say.....Wow, what do ya know, its a linear program with a slight deload in the middle of it. Strange.
    Hrmm... I meant, a standard linear program with squat/bench/dead or just focusing on this C/P program for deadlift.

    Would my deadlift numbers be significantly higher if I were to only focus on a DL only routine rather than incorporating the other lifts?
    Or would I most likely gain just as much while still doing squats/bench and a normal deadlift routine like the 4x5 for Madcows?
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  10. #10
    Registered User CheslinK's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by InspecktaDeck View Post
    How can you squat 405 and pull under 400? Im curious.
    Gym lifts.
    Squatted 405 then attempted 415 maybe 5-6 more times? Only got 375 on my pull after that. Only tried that one time last month.

    Deadlift is on par with my squat because I was not hitting depth with my squats the past few months. As arian said there's another thread about it. I think you even commented in there that I was squatting high.
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  11. #11
    Registered User runtocatch's Avatar
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    At your level I would try to become stronger. It works wonders. I'm not tryin to be a dick at all but why are people at your strength level always worried bout this or that number climbing. Get bigger and stronger and all your lifts will go up.
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  12. #12
    Registered User CheslinK's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by runtocatch View Post
    At your level I would try to become stronger. It works wonders. I'm not tryin to be a dick at all but why are people at your strength level always worried bout this or that number climbing. Get bigger and stronger and all your lifts will go up.
    "People at your strength level" - come on man, you had to have been at this point too and wanted your numbers to shoot up. Gotta pass through all these numbers to get where ever you are now. Did you never care about programming?

    No offense taken.

    Basically, I should just lift heavy **** and forget about programming until I can't move it anymore. Then I should worry about specific lifts and all this technical ****? That sounds easy enough

    I don't want to get any bigger. I want to stay in the 75kg and under weight class and just amp my strength.
    Last edited by CheslinK; 12-01-2012 at 09:41 AM.
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  13. #13
    Registered User timmzzy1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by runtocatch View Post
    I'm not even gonna look cuz I could care less but how can one not understand that Ed's programming is always linear. I may be wrong about this particular mythical program cuz I've never even seen it but I seriously doubt it.

    Edit to say I cant help it, gotta go find it now.

    Edit again to say.....Wow, what do ya know, its a linear program with a slight deload in the middle of it. Strange.
    Its not really a linear program, you work up from lighter weights and then max out over your old 1rm
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  14. #14
    dlt rocks my socks arian11's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by timmzzy1 View Post
    Its not really a linear program, you work up from lighter weights and then max out over your old 1rm
    Do you even know what a linear program is?
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    Registered User timmzzy1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by arian11 View Post
    Do you even know what a linear program is?
    Ok, ill change my wording abit, its not really a "traditional" linear program where you do a rep max lift and add weight from there, in c/p i guess it is a linear program, but you just work up from sub maximal weights
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  16. #16
    dlt rocks my socks arian11's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by timmzzy1 View Post
    Ok, ill change my wording abit, its not really a "traditional" linear program where you do a rep max lift and add weight from there, in c/p i guess it is a linear program, but you just work up from sub maximal weights
    So if I'm understanding correctly, you think linear progression means you have to do max reps on a lift?
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  17. #17
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    Originally Posted by CheslinK View Post
    Gym lifts.
    Squatted 405 then attempted 415 maybe 5-6 more times?
    That's smart.

    Originally Posted by CheslinK View Post
    I don't want to get any bigger. I want to stay in the 75kg and under weight class and just amp my strength.
    What is up with little guys wanting to stay little? Trust me, I used to do that too. Then I gained a sh*t-ton of weight and got a sh*t-ton stronger. At 5'7 you'd be way better off as 181-220, depending on frame and leverages.
    Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=143777961

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  18. #18
    Band showmestate08's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ChecksandGiggles View Post
    What is up with little guys wanting to stay little? Trust me, I used to do that too. Then I gained a sh*t-ton of weight and got a sh*t-ton stronger. At 5'7 you'd be way better off as 181-220, depending on frame and leverages.
    this. don't expect to have your numbers "shoot up" if you aren't planning to put on some weight.
    Last edited by showmestate08; 11-30-2012 at 07:18 PM.
    dem gainz:

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=151789213
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  19. #19
    Registered User rancid_theclash's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CheslinK View Post
    Edit: I've got no other experienced lifters around me, or powerlifting gyms. Korea is absent of any of that ****, and they are few and far between, most of them speak little to no English if they are around. I'm new to powerlifting, but I'm trying to study this ****. If ask what some people might consider stupid questions it is only because I'm trying to get better at lifting. This is my only outlet. If I could go ask this dumb **** to someone who knew what the **** they were doing I'd sure as hell not be on here.
    lol both my bros live in Seoul, Korea.... Have you tried going to the hamilton hotel??? they have squats racks, bumper plates etc In the gym there.
    Its in the iteawon district of Seoul ( near myongdong )
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  20. #20
    Registered User Jason2459's Avatar
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    I've got a squat rack next to mylongdong too. Come on over.
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  21. #21
    Registered User CheslinK's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by showmestate08 View Post
    this. don't expect to have your numbers "shoot up" if you aren't planning to put on some weight.
    Sure, I've been putting on weight... went from 70kg to 80kg the past few months. Got hardly any clothes that fit anymore. I'm pretty sure I can hit the numbers I want without gaining significantly more weight.

    It's all about goals. It's enough for me to shoot for records in the 75k and under class. For instance:
    # 1 Vashon “V Man” Perryman (USA) 600 Pound Squat @ 169 Pounds Body Weight (2012, Seattle, WA)

    # 1 Joe Mazza (USA) 450 Pound Benchpress @ 175.2 Pounds Body Weight (2010, Dallas, TX)

    # 1 Vashon “V Man” Perryman (USA) 645 Pound Deadlift @ 169 Pounds Body Weight (2012, Seattle, WA)

    That is far as hell away, so maybe if I ever got there I would consider going up to the 200s. Unlikely yes, but a goal is a goal. Of course, upping weight for the next class would be the next step.

    I'm not sure how people do that 20lb weight loss for meets. But if there is a protocol for dieting that quickly for a meet I'd be interested in learning - not interested enough to search for it though as I have no need to drop weight as of now.
    Last edited by CheslinK; 11-30-2012 at 11:25 PM.
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  22. #22
    **** Your Excuses xRequiem's Avatar
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    Stick to LP for a bit longer. Have you ever looked in to The Texas Method?
    My training log
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  23. #23
    Registered User CheslinK's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by xRequiem View Post
    Stick to LP for a bit longer. Have you ever looked in to The Texas Method?
    Thanks man. Only briefly. http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/The_Texas_Method

    Are the work sets all at the same weight? Only difference from Madcow are 5 top sets vs 1 am I right?

    How about you since we sit at the same weight. Do you plan on jumping to 181-220?
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  24. #24
    **** Your Excuses xRequiem's Avatar
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    Yeah you do 5x5 at 85% of your 5rm on monday then hit a new 5rm every Friday, simply.

    I'm trying to get back to 180ish. I'd prefer to be close to 190 but I dropped to 160 when I started my new job and haven't gained it back since.
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  25. #25
    Registered User runtocatch's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CheslinK View Post
    "People are your strength level" - come on man, you had to have been at this point too and wanted your numbers to shoot up. Gotta pass through all these numbers to get where ever you are now. Did you never care about programming?

    No offense taken.

    Basically, I should just lift heavy **** and forget about programming until I can't move it anymore. Then I should worry about specific lifts and all this technical ****? That sounds easy enough

    I don't want to get any bigger. I want to stay in the 75kg and under weight class and just amp my strength.
    I never said I didnt care about programming. I never worried about it though cuz I was surrounded by great big giants that were about as strong as you could be at the time. And......I wasnt tryin to offend you but weak people have to get stronger first before they worry about all this program vs that program BS. As far as you not gaining any weight I will tell you this and I'm not one of these "just friggin eat" jagoffs either but you are going struggle to ever be "strong" at your height and weight. At 5'7" with your age and your current strength levels you need to seriously reconsider what you are thinkin.
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  26. #26
    Registered User CheslinK's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by runtocatch View Post
    I never said I didnt care about programming. I never worried about it though cuz I was surrounded by great big giants that were about as strong as you could be at the time. And......I wasnt tryin to offend you but weak people have to get stronger first before they worry about all this program vs that program BS. As far as you not gaining any weight I will tell you this and I'm not one of these "just friggin eat" jagoffs either but you are going struggle to ever be "strong" at your height and weight. At 5'7" with your age and your current strength levels you need to seriously reconsider what you are thinkin.
    I appreciate the insight man. I'll take your word for it and consider this. Your lucky to be around some strong ass giants. I am literally the strongest person in the gym by a significant margin. I'm telling you my views on all of this are completely skewed as to being in Korea. I need someone to come stomp me in terms of weight. All I got is YouTube for that to put me in my place.

    Strong to me, for my class, is raw - benching near 400s and squat/dead 600+. I'm not really aiming for more than that at this point, gonna take long enough before that ever manifests, if possible.
    Last edited by CheslinK; 12-01-2012 at 09:53 AM.
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  27. #27
    Registered User CheslinK's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rancid_theclash View Post
    lol both my bros live in Seoul, Korea.... Have you tried going to the hamilton hotel??? they have squats racks, bumper plates etc In the gym there.
    Its in the iteawon district of Seoul ( near myongdong )
    Ah, Itaewon is chock full of foreigners. They certainly have some gyms up there. Think your bros would be interested in joining a small powerlifting group? Just trying to form a community here and maybe do some unofficial meets every 2 months or so. If they're interested tell them to shoot me an e-mail at CheslinK@gmail.com got about 9 dudes so far.

    I'm going to start training at a new facility in 2 weeks called SAP in Konkkuk Univ. area. Tons of racks, reverse hypers, glute ham raises, bumper plates, tire, all that ****. Some decently strong guys in there so I should get some major help. It's a bitch to commute, but whatever... I need a better community... one where people can help me in person. You guys are lucky to have real gyms back home.
    Last edited by CheslinK; 12-01-2012 at 09:56 AM.
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  28. #28
    Walrus Crew ChecksandGiggles's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CheslinK View Post
    Ah, Itaewon is chock full of foreigners. They certainly have some gyms up there.

    I'm going to start training at a new facility in 2 weeks called SAP in Konkkuk Univ. area. Tons of racks, reverse hypers, glute ham raises, bumper plates, tire, all that ****. Some decently strong guys in there so I should get some major help. It's a bitch to commute, but whatever... I need a better community... in person.
    Good on you, man. When you're the strongest person in your gym it's easy to get complacent. My giant friends refuse to train in commercial gyms.
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