Taking Ephedrine & Caffeine year-round...as a Pre-workout supplement?

[MISTERDUDE]

That is what I am currently doing. I don't take it every day, only on workout days - but lately I have been working out 6 days a week (typically I only do it 4-5 days a week).

I know most people on this site are not doctors, but I would still like some feedback about whether or not this could be running a risk of any long term side effects. I doubt I'll do this the rest of my life by any means [I think I'll live in a state where you can't buy it - even online], but even So, I thought I would get feedback on this.

I'm considering limiting myself to only using Ephedrine WITH caffeine just 3x a week. I'd still do caffeine pre-workout on days where I wanted a pre-workout stim.

Thanks everyone!

[MISTERDUDE]

I posted this thread in another section, and some valid (if redundant) points were brought up, so I thought I would bring that discussion in here.

im sure you'll eventually build up a tolerance to the stimulants and will have to consume an unhealthy dose to get an effect. your gonna have to take frequent breaks to "reset" ur tolerance.

I have been using it as a pre-workout stim since last fall, and I have never had to up the dose/nor have I noticed any tolerance.

If I found I was having to up the dose or even take it more than once, I wouldn't ask this type of thing as a question.

As it is, I might just stick to caffeine only pre-workout. I think I can handle that, but when I have lot of cardio it is nice to have the E&C boost and the appetite surpression so I don't overeat (or feel like it) after working out hard for a long time.

This; at the most I would do something like 8 weeks on, 4 weeks off

I'm not using it every day. Do people cycle other pre-workout stims?

[Bubbarossa]

I posted this thread in another section, and some valid (if redundant) points were brought up, so I thought I would bring that discussion in here.






I have been using it as a pre-workout stim since last fall, and I have never had to up the dose/nor have I noticed any tolerance.

If I found I was having to up the dose or even take it more than once, I wouldn't ask this type of thing as a question.

As it is, I might just stick to caffeine only pre-workout. I think I can handle that, but when I have lot of cardio it is nice to have the E&C boost and the appetite surpression so I don't overeat (or feel like it) after working out hard for a long time.



I'm not using it every day. Do people cycle other pre-workout stims?

Not sure if this helps, but I can give you my history real quick. I've taken EC for at least ten years, ever since it was available in ABB Speed Stack drinks. Heck, I was probably drinking at least 2 of those a day for a few years when it first came out (50-75mg of ephedra a day). I honestly enjoy the taste of Speed Stacks still and drink them a couple days a week as the C in the EC stack. Have I had side-effects? None that I can notice...never been told by a doctor to stop or reduce the amount either. With that said, I continue to take them pre-workout only while I'm dieting. Similar to you, I workout almost every day, so I basically take it every day and I don't up the dosage.

Long term effects? Perhaps, but there are many, many other things in life that can be attributed to long term health problems. You're ahead of so many other people (children and adults) by just going to the gym and exercising!

[Karl_Hungus]

That is what I am currently doing. I don't take it every day, only on workout days - but lately I have been working out 6 days a week (typically I only do it 4-5 days a week).

What kind of dosage are you using?

If you aren't taking huge doses, it probably won't kill you .... but, if you have high blood pressure, or borderline high blood pressure, I would definitely stop doing this. Otherwise, you could end up damaging your vascular system, heart, and other internal organs.

[jmborr]

That is what I am currently doing. I don't take it every day, only on workout days - but lately I have been working out 6 days a week (typically I only do it 4-5 days a week).

I know most people on this site are not doctors, but I would still like some feedback about whether or not this could be running a risk of any long term side effects. I doubt I'll do this the rest of my life by any means [I think I'll live in a state where you can't buy it - even online], but even So, I thought I would get feedback on this.

I'm considering limiting myself to only using Ephedrine WITH caffeine just 3x a week. I'd still do caffeine pre-workout on days where I wanted a pre-workout stim.

Thanks everyone!

I take it only once a day before the workout, and every other month to avoid tolerance.

[MISTERDUDE]

Not sure if this helps, but I can give you my history real quick. I've taken EC for at least ten years, ever since it was available in ABB Speed Stack drinks. Heck, I was probably drinking at least 2 of those a day for a few years when it first came out (50-75mg of ephedra a day). I honestly enjoy the taste of Speed Stacks still and drink them a couple days a week as the C in the EC stack. Have I had side-effects? None that I can notice...never been told by a doctor to stop or reduce the amount either. With that said, I continue to take them pre-workout only while I'm dieting. Similar to you, I workout almost every day, so I basically take it every day and I don't up the dosage.

Long term effects? Perhaps, but there are many, many other things in life that can be attributed to long term health problems. You're ahead of so many other people (children and adults) by just going to the gym and exercising!

Thanks for your input - very helpful.

What kind of dosage are you using?

If you aren't taking huge doses, it probably won't kill you .... but, if you have high blood pressure, or borderline high blood pressure, I would definitely stop doing this. Otherwise, you could end up damaging your vascular system, heart, and other internal organs.

Just the standard 25mg ephedrine sulfate (which is ~20mg of ephedrine) and one 200mg-caffeine pill.

Right now I'm just using a caffeine pill pre-workout (as in, since I started this thread ). I have no real long-term concerns about caffeine by itself pre-workout.

I take it only once a day before the workout, and every other month to avoid tolerance.

Not a bad idea. Thanks for your reply!

[Fifty+]

Thanks for your input - very helpful.



Just the standard 25mg ephedrine sulfate (which is ~20mg of ephedrine) and one 200mg-caffeine pill.

Right now I'm just using a caffeine pill pre-workout (as in, since I started this thread ). I have no real long-term concerns about caffeine by itself pre-workout.




Not a bad idea. Thanks for your reply!

I didn't realize the US legalized ephedrine again. Ephedra has been around for thousands of years. I use to enjoy the coffee & ephedrine stack...

[Karl_Hungus]

I didn't realize the US legalized ephedrine again. Ephedra has been around for thousands of years. I use to enjoy the coffee & ephedrine stack...

Ephedrine has always been legal. It is ephedra that was banned.

[MISTERDUDE]

Bump for any new insights.

I have taken it 2-4 times a week (usually 3) as a pre-workout stim/appetite suppressant since I last posted in this thread.

I have not noticed diminished effectiveness (still good for 4-5 hours, whether I like it or not), or any side effects. I since I work out more than 3x a week currently, I take just a regular caffeine pill on days where I do not take EC.

[jayluk4600]

Caffeine is good, I always drink some ice coffee or some form of it pre workout, but that ephidrine well it just makes me sleepy and hungry.. I know right ? I miss the old stuff I guess it was ephedra.. now that shiot had some kick. I would take that and forget to eat like.. all day but that was over 10 yrs ago that I rem being able to find that stuff.

All that crap supposedly to get you all geeked up to me is just garbage. Nothing beats some caffeine and a good ole Metallica song.

[ArchAngel'73]

I have used ephedrine, I have abused ephedrine, for years.
I also quit taking it and far prefer that than taking it.

Bottom line, effies are amphetamines and like any other amphetamine it is addictive. The crystal meth makers use ephedrine to cook up meth.
Have you tried coming off of it? And what did you feel like?--did you even feel like going to the gym?

IMO, stop using it. See what you're really made of without the help of an addicting stimulant.

If you want to try something to replace it with go with products that contain synephrine like Lipo6. Synephrine is natural, isn't banned anywhere, isn't addictive, and there isn't such an intense kick in and kick out.

[MISTERDUDE]

I have used ephedrine, I have abused ephedrine, for years.
I also quit taking it and far prefer that than taking it.

Bottom line, effies are amphetamines and like any other amphetamine it is addictive. The crystal meth makers use ephedrine to cook up meth.
Have you tried coming off of it? And what did you feel like?--did you even feel like going to the gym?

IMO, stop using it. See what you're really made of without the help of an addicting stimulant.

If you want to try something to replace it with go with products that contain synephrine like Lipo6. Synephrine is natural, isn't banned anywhere, isn't addictive, and there isn't such an intense kick in and kick out.

This is some of the problem I have posting on this site (this comment is not aimed specially at the above poster, but seems to apply nonetheless): people don't read the thread, they just see the title or just a few lines and then post a response.

Here is my situation:
I have had weeks where I used EC as a pre-workout stimulant only once, and I think not at all (certainly I did that the week I originally posted this thread, or some other time). I do not take caffeine or EC on non-workout days, which right now is the Weekend of Sat/Sun. I do not feel any problems with not taking it, and I have gone to the gym on a Saturday or done other physical activities without taking EC or caffeine - and felt fine.

As someone who at one point (2008) was taking caffeine @ 400-600mg PER DAY, I can tell the difference between getting dependent on a stimulant or not. To me, this does not feel like dependence. I had to ween myself off caffeine (not that hard; just decrease the dosage every 2-3 days till down to 0), but have never, even when I was taking EC 4-5 times a week as a pre-workout stimulant, felt flat if I didn't take EC or caffeine. When I was dependent on caffeine, I felt flat without it, hence I felt like continuing to take it.

So anyway, there we are.

[jayluk4600]

This is some of the problem I have posting on this site (this comment is not aimed specially at the above poster, but seems to apply nonetheless): people don't read the thread, they just see the title or just a few lines and then post a response.

Here is my situation:
I have had weeks where I used EC as a pre-workout stimulant only once, and I think not at all (certainly I did that the week I originally posted this thread, or some other time). I do not take caffeine or EC on non-workout days, which right now is the Weekend of Sat/Sun. I do not feel any problems with not taking it, and I have gone to the gym on a Saturday or done other physical activities without taking EC or caffeine - and felt fine.

As someone who at one point (2008) was taking caffeine @ 400-600mg PER DAY, I can tell the difference between getting dependent on a stimulant or not. To me, this does not feel like dependence. I had to ween myself off caffeine (not that hard; just decrease the dosage every 2-3 days till down to 0), but have never, even when I was taking EC 4-5 times a week as a pre-workout stimulant, felt flat if I didn't take EC or caffeine. When I was dependent on caffeine, I felt flat without it, hence I felt like continuing to take it.

So anyway, there we are.

Hmm, you asked for any new insights and I think you got one or two, I also understand the pros and cons on posting on a public site.. you rarely hear what you think is right but they are peoples opinions.

Sounds like you have your mind made up about these supplements which is entirely cool so I dont understand your bump then, did you want us to say sure its ok to take that stuff because maybe somewhere in the back of your mind you may be thinking you shouldn't take them or.. Guess I am confused.

It's your body and your time do what you feel is right.

[Karl_Hungus]

Bottom line, effies are amphetamines and like any other amphetamine it is addictive.

Well, my understanding is that it is similar in structure to amphetamines, but it isn't actually an amphetamine. It also isn't quite as addictive as amphetamines because ephedrine doesn't produce the rapid rise in dopamine in the brain that amphetamines do. You do make a good point though, that becoming accustomed to the stimulating effects of ephedrine can make you feel like you need it in order to have a decent workout.

If you want to try something to replace it with go with products that contain synephrine like Lipo6. Synephrine is natural, isn't banned anywhere, isn't addictive, and there isn't such an intense kick in and kick out.

They are both natural in the sense that they are derived from plants -- And, actually synephrine can cause many of the same health problems as ephedrine. They both cause vasoconstriction, tachycardia, and can be dangerous for those with arrhythmias. But, if you are smart about it, and don't abuse them, they are probably OK to take for a healthy person with no blood pressure or heart problems.

Overall though, I agree with the sentiment of your post. I too, have tried to minimize the amount of stims I take before working out. For awhile, I was getting to the point to where I felt like I needed them to have a decent workout. Now, the most I'll have is a cup of coffee an hour before I hit the gym.

This is some of the problem I have posting on this site (this comment is not aimed specially at the above poster, but seems to apply nonetheless): people don't read the thread, they just see the title or just a few lines and then post a response.

Keep in mind that a bunch of people are reading the thread -- So, while some of the replies might not apply directly to your situation, I think it is good that folks like Archangel are giving a more broadly applicable opinion. The more info, and the more perspectives the better. This can help other people in the same situation who are debating whether or not to use ephedrine.

[MISTERDUDE]

Hmm, you asked for any new insights and I think you got one or two, I also understand the pros and cons on posting on a public site.. you rarely hear what you think is right but they are peoples opinions.

Sounds like you have your mind made up about these supplements which is entirely cool so I dont understand your bump then, did you want us to say sure its ok to take that stuff because maybe somewhere in the back of your mind you may be thinking you shouldn't take them or.. Guess I am confused.

It's your body and your time do what you feel is right.

No, no, no. talking about something that is not related to my question is not a new insight - if I see a new link/reference to information, or personal experience and feedback, that is new insight.

Someone who could come into the thread saying "I have used EC in a similar manner to you, and here is what my experience was" is insight; someone who says "I took EC 3x a day for 3 years and had a hard time coming off of it" is unrelated because I am not using EC the way they are. It's like comparing court cases/precedents when preparing a legal argument or a tax return - similarity in facts make cases applicable, and the more similarities, the more applicable they become.

Keep in mind that a bunch of people are reading the thread -- So, while some of the replies might not apply directly to your situation, I think it is good that folks like Archangel are giving a more broadly applicable opinion. The more info, and the more perspectives the better. This can help other people in the same situation who are debating whether or not to use ephedrine.

That is valid, and I understand; I just get tired of blanket statements that seem almost unrelated entirely to the question(s) I pose in a thread. I do not disregard anyone's opinion just because it is not answering a specific question. Threads just seem to steer off course and while obviously I do want feedback from others, the process can still be frustrating. I know this is a public forum but it is one of the few places I can ask questions related to bodybuilding/supplements; doctors know NOTHING about this stuff, and most people at the gym do not have any idea about this stuff either (from my experience).

[jayluk4600]

No, no, no. talking about something that is not related to my question is not a new insight - if I see a new link/reference to information, or personal experience and feedback, that is new insight.

Someone who could come into the thread saying "I have used EC in a similar manner to you, and here is what my experience was" is insight; someone who says "I took EC 3x a day for 3 years and had a hard time coming off of it" is unrelated because I am not using EC the way they are. It's like comparing court cases/precedents when preparing a legal argument or a tax return - similarity in facts make cases applicable, and the more similarities, the more applicable they become.

Fair enough well I hope you find some viable insight

[acwild]

That is what I am currently doing. I don't take it every day, only on workout days - but lately I have been working out 6 days a week (typically I only do it 4-5 days a week)...

I hate to answer a question with a question but... do you really need a pre-workout every workout?

What happens if you don't take the stims? Are you falling on your face halfway through your routine?

In my case I do have a lot of fat to burn so I rarely eat or take anything pre-workout, unless I'm wiped out tired from the night before or I didn't get to sleep until late... basically unless I really need a pick-me-up.

Is everyone else who is taking pre-workout stims taking them as often as you? I know the manufacturers want you to take them every day but I thought they were more for when you really need them, as opposed to always taking them.

[MISTERDUDE]

I hate to answer a question with a question but... do you really need a pre-workout every workout?

What happens if you don't take the stims? Are you falling on your face halfway through your routine?

In my case I do have a lot of fat to burn so I rarely eat or take anything pre-workout, unless I'm wiped out tired from the night before or I didn't get to sleep until late... basically unless I really need a pick-me-up.

Is everyone else who is taking pre-workout stims taking them as often as you? I know the manufacturers want you to take them every day but I thought they were more for when you really need them, as opposed to always taking them.

"Need" a pre workout stim every workout? No, but I do like it. I feel like it makes a difference, especially with cardio. When I just lift weights (which I usually don't; I usually do a total body workout finished with cardio) I don't feel the need for any caffeine or anything. As a former fat guy, cardio is just too essential, and since I still play soccer and try to be athletic, my workouts (including cardio) need to be intense, with more work done in a shorter period of time. This is also for time's sake - can't spend 2 hours in the gym.

As for your second question, sometimes when I don't have caffeine I do feel flat, but again, it depends on when I workout. If I am working out later in the day, I would never take caffeine/EC because (a) it would affect my sleep, and (b) I wouldn't need it**. On days where I have a particularly long workout, the ephedrine helps keep intense food cravings away after my workout - which has often been a problem for me. I am a former fat guy so that is important to me, but it is only an issue *sometimes*. I like the crutch (seriously, I do) of being able to have ephedrine at my disposal to keep my appetite in check, but I don't really *need* it, especially since I have pretty good eating habits and am pretty well used to eating a good, clean diet.

**=I get plenty of sleep (8+ hours a night), but I swear, the gym in the morning just is harder for some reason. Might be mental, but there is a noticeable difference in my energy during a workout when I can go like at 3 in the afternoon vs. 5-9Am (yes, big window). I might be exaggerating, since I rarely go in the afternoon so maybe I just have the change in routine making my mind more alert or something.

As for your Third question, I have no idea. I have never taken a specific "pre workout stim" product. I do take caffeine or EC before every workout I have, and right now, every workout I have is in the morning and includes cardio. When I start working more hours in late June-august, I will probably only hit the gym 3x a week, and I may only do cardio at 2 of those workouts.

[dungeonmistress]

I dunno but it seems to me that you are at least psychologically a bit "hooked" since you feel you need to take it on workout days. What does it feel like to train without it? If you don't need to lose weight then maybe you should cut the cardio and other forms of exercise that are not conducive to muscle gain, but I don't know your goals. Why do you feel you have to take this stuff? Perhaps if you got enough sleep, ate right and trained within your NATURAL physical limitations without overtraining you wouldn't need to amp yourself up to work out.

[Joe K.]

If it's working for you, you feel good, and you are not abusing it I see no problem with taking it every workout day. People drink coffee every day and that's really similar.

[MISTERDUDE]

I dunno but it seems to me that you are at least psychologically a bit "hooked" since you feel you need to take it on workout days. What does it feel like to train without it? If you don't need to lose weight then maybe you should cut the cardio and other forms of exercise that are not conducive to muscle gain, but I don't know your goals. Why do you feel you have to take this stuff? Perhaps if you got enough sleep, ate right and trained within your NATURAL physical limitations without overtraining you wouldn't need to amp yourself up to work out.

Well, I am a naturally fat person so I do cardio year round - not a bad habit, if I may throw that out there, regardless of your body type. That includes sports (soccer mainly) so it is pretty fun. I have tried "bulking," and the sad, sad fact is that I gain muscle no faster eating excess calories and not burning them off I do gain fat, however.

I also like to stay lean year round and that seems to help with my insulin sensitivity. So anyway.

As for how I feel without the caffeine, or ephedrine, sometimes I can feel like I'm dragging a little bit or not as into my workouts without them. I know last week I was playing soccer later in the day, so I just lifted in the morning with no caffeine and I felt like that then. Other times I would go lift without caffeine and I did not notice anything, even if I did cardio afterwards like normal.

I feel like I get enough sleep or certainly enough time in bed anyway, so I don't think that is the reason I like the pre-workout boost. I don't drink energy drinks or take caffeine/ephedrine any other time - just for workouts. I wouldn't want to feel amped up for studying or doing anything else, that would not help me concentrate (quite the opposite).

If it's working for you, you feel good, and you are not abusing it I see no problem with taking it every workout day. People drink coffee every day and that's really similar.

That is exactly what I am trying to decide. I'm not trying to be antagonistic if I disagree with someone on here about how I use caffeine or ephedrine, but I obviously feel it helps me and do not feel it is hurting me, baring some information I have not yet seen. It is a little unusual (maybe) to take ephedrine year-round like I have been doing, but taking it only 3 days a week is not having it in your system for very long. Same with caffeine - it doesn't stay in your system active 24 hours; rather, just a few hours after you take it.

I probably will not be taking ephedrine for years on end simply because I will most likely live in a state where it is illegal period (no way to buy it, even off Amazon; suppliers will not ship it) and when/if that happens, I'll look for something else as an appetite suppressant (maybe chocamine, for example). I am not worried about using caffeine just before workouts at a reasonable dose.

[Mr Anabolic]

I have used ephedrine, I have abused ephedrine, for years.
I also quit taking it and far prefer that than taking it.

Bottom line, effies are amphetamines and like any other amphetamine it is addictive. The crystal meth makers use ephedrine to cook up meth.
Have you tried coming off of it? And what did you feel like?--did you even feel like going to the gym?

IMO, stop using it. See what you're really made of without the help of an addicting stimulant.

If you want to try something to replace it with go with products that contain synephrine like Lipo6. Synephrine is natural, isn't banned anywhere, isn't addictive, and there isn't such an intense kick in and kick out.

Totally agree with this.

I've been training for 27 years and have used ephedrine on and off for about 20 years... never really abusing it, but I have come close. In the early 90's I had training partner that abused the hell out of it. He was stacking caffiene with it using 25e/200caf 3-4 times A DAY! He had MANY problems related to it: insomnia, muscle tears/cramps/spasms, headaches, bizzare mood swings and compulsive/aggressive behavior. Now he cannot even train anymore because of all his injuries. He has cronic joint/muscle pain and his cognitive functions have noticably slowed (it degrades and eventually destroys brain cells and neuron connections just like all amphetamines do). When he came off it, he did not feel normal again for 3-6 months... of course he was taking it everyday, for 2-3 years straight.

Anyone remember Dave Fisher? He was an IFBB pro in the late 80's and early 90's. He self admitted ephedrine abuser and had MANY muscle tears and other injuries... it basically put an end to his BBing career.

Ephedrine is okay in very small doses (12mg at the most) when you need to get a lift on leg day or for early AM cardio, but long term high doses will phuck you up.

If you're going to take it, keep the dosage low and only take it when absolutely necessary.

Peace.

[MISTERDUDE]

Totally agree with this.

I've been training for 27 years and have used ephedrine on and off for about 20 years... never really abusing it, but I have come close. In the early 90's I had training partner that abused the hell out of it. He was stacking caffiene with it using 25e/200caf 3-4 times A DAY! He had MANY problems related to it: insomnia, muscle tears/cramps/spasms, headaches, bizzare mood swings and compulsive/aggressive behavior. Now he cannot even train anymore because of all his injuries. He has cronic joint/muscle pain and his cognitive functions have noticably slowed (it degrades and eventually destroys brain cells and neuron connections just like all amphetamines do). When he came off it, he did not feel normal again for 3-6 months... of course he was taking it everyday, for 2-3 years straight.

Anyone remember Dave Fisher? He was an IFBB pro in the late 80's and early 90's. He self admitted ephedrine abuser and had MANY muscle tears and other injuries... it basically put an end to his BBing career.

Ephedrine is okay in very small doses (12mg at the most) when you need to get a lift on leg day or for early AM cardio, but long term high doses will phuck you up.

If you're going to take it, keep the dosage low and only take it when absolutely necessary.

Peace.

I am not disregarding what you have said, but I would like some evidence (of any kind, anything to start with) of the statements in bold. Methamphetamine causes brain damage through a variety of pathways but meth=/=other amphetamines. It's like saying ******* and Caffeine are chemically similar (which they are) and assuming they have the same effect on the body/brain.

I would stop using any ephedrine at all if I knew it was related to brain damage. I have never seen or heard of that claim, and I have read quite a bit (even formal studies) on ephedrine/caffeine.

My personal opinion: the guys you are talking about probably had some other disorder/mental health condition that caused them to start taking that much EC (and who knows what else) in the first place. One time during a dieting phase (6 years ago, and I cycled off ephedrine afterwards) I took EC 3x a day a few times, but decided that was too much - and I was quite tolerant to the substance then as I used it for 4 months (long diet; stuff like that convinced me that "bulking" was not right for my body type). My point: You have to be pretty crazy to be taking EC like your friend was to begin with, so I don't know that the symptoms you described are related to EC usage.

[Mr Anabolic]

I am not disregarding what you have said, but I would like some evidence (of any kind, anything to start with) of the statements in bold. Methamphetamine causes brain damage through a variety of pathways but meth=/=other amphetamines. It's like saying ******* and Caffeine are chemically similar (which they are) and assuming they have the same effect on the body/brain.

I would stop using any ephedrine at all if I knew it was related to brain damage. I have never seen or heard of that claim, and I have read quite a bit (even formal studies) on ephedrine/caffeine.

My personal opinion: the guys you are talking about probably had some other disorder/mental health condition that caused them to start taking that much EC (and who knows what else) in the first place. One time during a dieting phase (6 years ago, and I cycled off ephedrine afterwards) I took EC 3x a day a few times, but decided that was too much - and I was quite tolerant to the substance then as I used it for 4 months (long diet; stuff like that convinced me that "bulking" was not right for my body type). My point: You have to be pretty crazy to be taking EC like your friend was to begin with, so I don't know that the symptoms you described are related to EC usage.

I have several links and info for you on this topic, but I only have 6 posts and it will not let me to post URL here... oh well.

[Meatpants]

I have used EC stack when cutting fat off, but stopped after reaching my goal. I will use it again the next time I cut. Out of curiosity, why would one want to use this all year round? If your not trying to cut, wouldn't you get the same benefit from caffeine, or some other pre workout?

[acwild]

I'm not trying to be antagonistic if I disagree with someone on here about how I use caffeine or ephedrine, but I obviously feel it helps me and do not feel it is hurting me, baring some information I have not yet seen.

You do realize that is the very statement every single person addicted to any substance always says.

A person can become addicted to nearly any substance, there are cases of persons addicted to caffeine, take away their morning coffee and they present all the classic signs of withdrawal, moodiness, lethargicness, quick temper, depression, etc.

I'm not lecturing you or looking for an argument but what happens if you go off the stimulants and try to work out, can you do it or are you tired, moody, feeling depressed, quick tempered, etc? Do you NEED the stimulants or can you workout a week or two without them?

[Meatpants]

You do realize that is the very statement every single person addicted to any substance always says.

A person can become addicted to nearly any substance, there are cases of persons addicted to caffeine, take away their morning coffee and the present all the classic signs of withdrawal, moodiness, lethargicness, quick temper, depression, etc.

I'm not lecturing you or looking for an argument but just to repeat the question, what happens if you go off the stimulants and try to work out, can you do it or are you tired, moody, feeling depressed, quick tempered, etc?

For my entire childhood I listened to my mom telling me how she wasn't not addicted to cigarettes, its just that she's so much more alert and relaxed when she smokes, it's not hurting her and it actually helps her.

People do get addicted, my ex construction boss was addicted to pot. He'd smoke a joint or two in the morning and he was the happiest guy to be around, then a few hours later he's throwing stones and bricks around, cursing everyone out, then later he'd smoke another joint at lunch and he was back to normal... of course he wasn't addicted, it just helped him feel better and it wasn't hurting him.

And you should realize that if he was addicted to it, none of these replies would matter to him. An addict must come to self realization.

Not saying OP's an addict, just making a point.

[MISTERDUDE]

You do realize that is the very statement every single person addicted to any substance always says.

A person can become addicted to nearly any substance, there are cases of persons addicted to caffeine, take away their morning coffee and they present all the classic signs of withdrawal, moodiness, lethargicness, quick temper, depression, etc.

I'm not lecturing you or looking for an argument but what happens if you go off the stimulants and try to work out, can you do it or are you tired, moody, feeling depressed, quick tempered, etc? Do you NEED the stimulants or can you workout a week or two without them?

Maybe; dealing with performance enhancers vs. rec drugs is a different ball game, don't you think? If someone claimed creatine helped them, is that addiction?


Yeah, I can workout without stimulants of any kind. I prefer not to, but I can, and sometimes it is better that way if I workout later in the day (even with cardio). I don't feel any kind of withdrawl.

Caffeine addiction = dependence more so than an addiction. This might be getting too technical, but people can ween themselves off caffeine without much discipline, and if a person continues to ingest caffeine, the effects make a person feel worse, not better. That doesn't correspond to how addictive drugs are used.

Could I workout a week or two without them? Of course. To me, that's like asking if you could workout without your music. I know people who "can't" workout (usually cardio) without music, and once the portable MP3 players became affordable, I could see where they are coming from (I can't believe I used to go 40 minutes sometimes WITHOUT ANY Music or TV or distractions....).




This is getting redundant. I am not addicted to caffeine or EC, I am using them as pre-workout stimulants only, and wanted feedback about health/other consequences from doing so. That means if I go 3 days without working out, I go three days without caffeine or EC. Could I workout for the next two weeks without either? Sure, but I would rather have the energy than not, which is why I take it in the first place. When I don't take any caffeine at all, I don't notice anything unless the workout is long(er), and then I will notice that my energy levels are not as high as they normally are, but that is surely to be expected without[ caffeine in a normal person. To put it this way, if I had to choose between having the MP3 player for cardio or caffeine/EC, I would take the MP3 player (assuming I was in the gym obviously).

So if anyone has anything concrete they can mention, I would appreciate it. This topic is helpful because I feel that anything that could negatively effect my health should be scrutinized, and since I have been using EC basically since 2009 as a pre-workout stim (# of days a week varying), that is why I bring it up.

(I think people are confusing a lot with this thread - If I were just taking caffeine pre workout (Which I do 2+days a week), would the same replies be occurring? My question is specifically about EC, but so far I'm reading posts about addiction - not any information on EC).

[MISTERDUDE]

I have several links and info for you on this topic, but I only have 6 posts and it will not let me to post URL here... oh well.

Send it to me in a private message; or post a few more times (would 10 be enough?).

[flat6nut]

Does this dress make me look fat?