Eating Disorder Support Thread: Recovery in Numbers (2nd Edition)

[ThousandEyes]

@ababy

Just a quick note you should rethink your reason for wanting to gain muscle. It shouldn't be about being able to burn more at rest, it should be about getting to a healthy mentality and the body will follow. Trying to focus on burning more is just gonna make your wheels spin harder mentally.

[OceanicWhiteTip]

@Oceanic

Let me first say well done. It does seem that you have taken major strides towards your recovery and there is no reason why you will not continue to do so if you keep positive and actively pursue what you want for yourself. You are very strong!
Let me ask you though, are you working with anyone or confiding in anyone about your struggles? It's important to know that you are not alone in the world and also the help of a professional can help you get closer to better understanding your triggers and how to develop proper coping mechanisms. If you are not already doing this I would recommend it as it will definitely help with your healing process.

I've had really mixed, negative leaning experiences with "outside help." I've seen therapists who told me to keep a food diary (yeah, that was a disaster), eating disorder support groups that felt like competitions/races to the grave...Before my most recent move, I had found a really great support group that was healthy and non-triggering, but then...well, I moved. It's hard for me to find the "get up and go" to seek out a new support system when the majority of my experiences have been negative, but I still know I am better for that support when it is the right kind. There's a weekly support group on sundays that is right around the corner from my house that I've been "meaning" to check out for a while now (cue excuses), but this Sunday I've committed to actually going. I'm hoping that perhaps from there I can get suggestion on good local counseling options.

[OceanicWhiteTip]

^

I think apart of this is removing/disassociating the "clean bodybuilding diet" from our lives. I think once we remove that aspect to the equation and let go of all of the obligations and restrictions around food/nutrition, and even TRAINING. Things get a lot better.

Right now, eating "clean" (while not actively tracking calories and macros) is the best way for me to mentally get past the volume of food I really need to be eating to keep up with my training. Stuff my brain doesn't accept as "clean" tends to be the stuff I tell myself I can have a little of...and then it turns into a predictable spiral. I'm really hoping to not be a prisoner of that mentality forever, though.

[ThousandEyes]

^ hey dude we avoid quoting posts here because they get long. Not yellin at you just a heads up since you're new :P

[OceanicWhiteTip]

*girl

Thanks for the heads up, I'll remember it in the future.

[Ababy821]

Annalisa, yes I know...my calorific intake is saddeningly poor isn’t it.  Sticking point is, I’ve already gained SO much weight...from about 27kg to 45kg...so I feel so huge compared to where I was that the thought of gaining even more just is terrifying...And yes, my family (my mother) knows where I’m at...she feels helpless as I have suffered for so long with anorexia and nothing has ultimately changed my thoughts and preoccupation with my body being thin.  You have obviously done a fantastic job of overcoming your issues because you look just amazing and sound very positive. I hope I can do that too!!
Elfman, I’m glad to hear you think that my damage isn’t permanent. 2 800 calories seems huge! I did calculate my recommended calories based on my height, weight, body fat , sex and age, and it said BMR was 1,170 and if I add in all the activity I do, I should be eating 1,873. (Katch/McArdle equation). Both of these are still a huge long way away for me!! (Hopefully I get there) But can I ask, where does the 2,800 come from?
Thank you for your understanding! I’m just so scared of the weight increase...but yes I understand that it will ultimately be the best thing for my health. I guess how long it takes will depend on how fast I can do 1) and 2)?
Thousandeyes – you are right! I do desperately want the physique that can come with being in optimal health...Gosh it just feels like a thousand miles – and kilos...away...
Thanks to you all who replied! It is great to know there’s people here who understand. <3
OceanWhiteTip I totally get your reluctance to get outside support systems with so many negative experiences under your belt...it’s a lot the same for me, I’m afraid to trust anyone. I do hope that this new weekly support group will end up being very positive for you though – a good experience to replace the bad. I also understand the need to stick to ‘clean’ foods because you can feel better about eating more calories. Even though I need to eat more calories there’s still no way I could consume them through eating a Big Mac or a Magnum.

[AnnalisaLynn]

@ Ababy821 I understand your fears and I really sympathise. I've been there and I know how these fears can be crippling...but what if you recognized that these thoughts are the only thing keeping you from what you really want. Even though they seem so unshakable you can defy them one day at a time. The first time will be terrifying...the second time just a little less so...until you realize that the only thing in life that you can really control is your thoughts and you CAN work through them one day at a time. It's hard to do that alone which is why I am glad that your mother is at least aware of your struggle. Do you talk to her about it?
I'd still recommend the help of one-on-one sessions with a professional. I'm not ignoring your past experiences and I'm devastated that they had such a negative impact on you...but just remember that no two people are the same and there is a good chance that you are close to a doctor that can really help you work through this.

Calorie counting is helping feed your fear even though you are using it to slowly add more foods. You shouldn't justify that extra protein because you are working out and because it's only a certain amount of calories. You deserve to wake up each day and eat anything you desire. All of this calculating is just keeping you in a box of what you feel you are allowed to have. Have you ever considered not counting? It was hard for me to break my caloric restrictions when I kept adding up everything I ate. When I knew that I ate past a certain mark it would send me into a whirlwind of panic that was definitely not conducive to improving my relationship with myself or my food. It's only when I forced myself to go against my need to control every calorie that things could move forward.

You're pushing yourself I can see so don't think that I feel you are not trying. I know it's hard. It's scary...but I also know that you have what it takes to overcome this or else you would not be in this situation in the first place. I feel that you are ready to take a bigger step. Forget eating more calories and focus on eating more food. Treat your body like you would treat your own child...if she was hungry you'd feed her because you love her. If she slipped up you wouldn't hate her for it...you'd love her harder and would be understanding. Try and remember that when these thoughts try and harm your 'baby'. Fight them off. Don't be scared about putting on weight...you want to put on weight because you want to be healthy! And really think hard about seeing a doctor...you gave us a chance by telling us your story. Give a new doctor a chance. It will be worth defying yet another fear...

[AnnalisaLynn]

@Oceanic

I'm really glad to hear that you are going to check out the support group and ask for recommended counting options. It's so unfortunate that the doctors in your past didn't help...but as I said to Ababy821 it doesn't mean that your next doctor won't be helpful. I'm really happy for you that you are taking that step. Today is the day right? I'm looking forward to hearing how it went and I will keep you in prayer.

[elfman5150]

@ababy

As far as the 2800 calories goes, I think that somewhere between 2500 MINIMUM and 3000 is a good place for you to start, again avoiding exercise until you reach a 'healthy' BMI. What constitutes a healthy BMI? Well, the simple answer is that it's different for every body. 18.5-25 is what is shown to be the average 'healthy' BMI, but our own bodies have a natural weight they want to be at. For some it's at a BMI of 19, while others it's a BMI of 25. Heck, some people naturally fall even higher than that! What it comes down to is where you/your body feel most comfortable at. Don't force it. Once you hit that 'sweet spot' your weight will stabilize itself there and try to maintain an equilibrium. If you eat more calories than you need at that point, metabolism boosts and maintains the status quo, so to speak.

Now, I do recommend you visit the site called youreatopia. Go to the forums there; you will get A LOT of use out of them for sure, and you will find an extremely supportive community, much like you have here. I am a member there as well, and have found it to really help my journey. My username there is the same, so you can look me up there if you have questions.

Stay strong and keep on!

[determined4000]

@ababy
IMO dont count another caloire and focus on eat 3 meals and 2-3 snacks a day
surround yourself with others when you eat so you can see what a norma meal should be like for a normal person
then it becaomes much easier and you can justify your eating as what a normal person NEEDs to do

[Cinders101]

Hey everyone =)

I am a third year university student and have to do a dissertation as part of my final year.
I chose to look at people's perceptions of anorexia and the related treatments. I'm searching for a range of view points from those who have had it, have recovered, to never had it, to have had BED and everything in between.
It consists of sorting 40 statements into a grid ranging from -5 to +5, and you place one statement per box on the grid depending on how much you agree or disagree with it.

If you would be interested in helping me by taking part, please PM me. The data will be kept in strict confidentiality.
Thanks in advance =)

[ShyGuyXS]

Hey! Quick update... I believe my recovery phase is just really beginning.

I've been steadily increasing my intake (at least I think I have been - I'm trying not to think too much about what I eat or counting calories right now and just focusing on eating more) and I have had a slight gain over the last week, but I am feeling really uncomfortable with my progress (or possible lack thereof) lately. The last few nights, I barely got any sleep, and I don't know whether it's anxiety, hunger, or both that are keeping me up. I also have been feeling mixed signals of being hungry and pretty full at the same time.

Attempting to get my doctor and therapist working together and talking about my progress and to get a general sense of how I'm doing, but I won't know until I meet with them later this week for a follow-up. Unfortunately, due to my current work and school obligations, my immediate treatment options are pretty limited.

On a different note, I feel like I'm making some progress about my mental attitude as well. Yesterday, my father wanted to stop by a pizza place for lunch. Even though I had just had a snack and wasn't really hungry, I had (most of) a slice of pizza and it was delicious!

--------

A bit of personal reflection here:

I potentially have 40+ years of a rich, fulfilling life ahead of me, years that I can either enjoy freely and giving my best every day or remaining sick, stuck in a restrictive pattern full of fear and anxiety, and potentially losing that bright future. I need to decide which path to follow now.

One thing is for sure: I want change. I want to fight this battle... to win, to take my life back, and to be all that I know I can be. To do that, I may need to make sacrifices and tough personal decisions. I know the journey won't be the easiest thing to take on. I will probably break down a few times, feeling fuller than a balloon at times (like yesterday).

There are things, however, that I would really like to experience and enjoy. Right now, I'm not truly happy with who I am, and I can't enjoy life in my current state. I'm going to do all that I possibly can to maintain my schedule and work towards a healthier "me". I know I need rest, support, and time to focus on myself. I'll try to keep you all informed as soon as I know more.

Stay strong, everyone.

[OceanicWhiteTip]

@AnnalisaLynn

I am happy to report I followed through and went to the support group. Unfortunately the couple of doctor recommendations I got were outside of my insurance network, but I am going to keep going, and keep trying.

[AnnalisaLynn]

@OceanicWhiteTip

I'm sorry to hear about the doctor recommendations but on a more positive note how did you like the group support group? Glad to hear that you are going to keep at it. How have you been feeling in general these days?

[determined4000]

good to hear SHY GUY
remember, you haven't lived a day yet with your ED, but those 40 years of days do await you if you make the BIG swooping changes.
Small changes dont really add up IMO. YOu end up in the 2 steps forward and three back mode.
Just decide that those small steps weren't enough (even though they were ood progress( and make the real change.

YOU CAN DO IT!

[ErikTheElectric]

^

The small steps are nice, but they are never enough.. the big steps are what are actually needed to encourage change and to actually get the needed changes to happen.
Actions -----> Changes -----> Goals.

[Keliem]

Hi all. Here's a little of my story.. after having my first baby 6 1/2 years ago, I was huge. I went on a stupid crash diet that helped me to lose weight but completely messed me up mentally. During this time I also got back into sport and generally being active. Anyway to cut a long story short (ish) I've struggled ever since. It was after the birth of my second child 12 months ago that I decided to take up bodybuilding. I was training twice a day everyday and living off next to nothing. I couldn't physically eat anything without having a breakdown. I weighed myself everyday and needless to say it was a struggle.I've never been happy with my weight and it just seemed to stop and not move (almost like it had gi ven up and was just storing my fat), and I wasn't h. appy at all. Anyway I had to have an operation at the end of last year, as result of me abusing my body and i was out of training for about 6 weeks. It was during this time that I finally admitted to myself that I have an ED and that if I want to see any changes in my body (and be healthy) then I need to change. Anyway I hit the gym hard and started eating "properly".
I've seen a great improvement as far as muscle gains, but trying to cut fat is proving to be difficult. . and I'm struggling mentally. I'm so worried about gaining fat and the thought of slipping back into my old habits creep in.
Does anyone have any wise words for me please? Need some motivation!!

[Ababy821]

Well done OceanWhiteTip!!

ShyGuy, awesome effort you are making. Increasing your intake is no small feat (don’t I know it!) I am thinking the lack of sleep and unusual feelings of fullness and hungriness are similar to what I have experienced every time I have started to eat more calories.

When starved for a long time I’ve always found that nighttimes can be difficult – Physically your body’s metabolism can speed up and I’ve been known to have difficulty getting, and staying, asleep, due to night sweats and general restlessness, unable to relax, etc. Also if you’re anything like me, anxiety over extra food, thoughts about what you might eat the next day or what you ate that day, etc. Sometimes for me it would also be me questioning myself ‘Did i eat enough food? I’m a little bit hungry, so maybe I didn’t eat enough? Should I go back to the kitchen and down something extra?, or should i leave it?’

Keliem I have heard that for many people who have lost a lot of weight in the past, it is harder for them than the average person to lose fat. But if you’re looking to gain muscle, from what I hear it’s almost impossible to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time for any person – let alone do both when you have had an ed and your body might be struggling...But well done for your realising your problem and being strong enough to admit to yourself that you needed to change. It’s so hard.

AFM, I just registered for YourEatopia.com, on your advice Elfman. Although I don’t know how mentally ready I am to make huge changes...I mean, my BMI and weight is not terrible. My metabolism is. I already have 17.5% body fat, and I have tons of cellulite on my ass... if i start eating so many more calories, then it won’t take long before I am a BMI higher than my own Mum’s after 3 children (!) And I was always underweight even as a healthy kid who ate everything! At this stage I am just hoping I can make it to 1000 calories by several months from now! I think my metabolism is very damaged, but my weight itself actually isn’t bad anymore. Being so close to ‘normal’ and having so much fat on myself already, this is going to have to be really slow because mentally I won’t cope with rapid weight gain when I’m already stressing about how high and almost ‘normal’ my weight is at the moment...
To top it off, everyone who I’ve seen recently is saying to me ‘You look amazing! So gorgeous!! So well!’ – when I have never felt more depressed about my looks and my size in my life. This is what i mean when I say I actually don’t look ‘sick’, unhealthy, or too thin. I don’t look ‘anorexic’ by any stretch of the imagination...and I definitely don’t look like I only eat 250 calories a day.
Feel like a fraud too because I’m trying to recover from an eating disorder but there’s nothing too wrong with my weight...I feel like I can justify myself as having an ed when I’m so ‘healthy-looking’.

So metabolic damage like this is NOT permanent?

[determined4000]

Metabolic damage is not permanent.
But the longer you are underfeeding the worse it becomes.
The more aggressive you are in getting back to normal levels and even a surplus, then our body will require more and more just to maintain.
I personally chronically underfed myself to where I was running 10miles a day and eating 1300-1500 calories
This landed me in the hospital where I was on bed rest and eventually needed 4500-5000 calories as my metabolism went into overdrive.

[ErikTheElectric]

^ just another thought.

If you sat 99% of ED sufferers down and asked them if they thought they were "sick enough to have an eating disorder" all of them would say that they wouldn't think so. Another why the BMI indicator is pointless, you can be 99lbs and have an eating disorder and you can be 999lbs pounds and have an eating disorder. It's just the fact the society places a sort of stigma/stereotype that people HAVE TO look malnourished and sick in order to have Anorexia or any type of ED. When that couldn't be further from the truth.

The fact of the matter is that whenever you feel like you're not "sick enough" to have an ED, it's just your disease messing with your rational thinking.

[Ababy821]

Yeah I know...I have a terrible eating disorder. It's just the feelings because of my weight being so much higher.

[TearsOfIce]

Looks like a nice thread to finally express myself...
At the beginning of June I wa 65 kgs and didn't like my body, but it was when a coach (tennis) told me I wasn't fit enough that I finally found the motivation to stop eating "unhealthy" stuff every day in huge quantities and start dieting. At the beginning I had no clue about nutrition so I just started to eat so little (sometimes I would eat dinner with just a few leaves of salad without dressing) because I ued to live in an academy where nothing was healthy enough (according to me) at the buffet. At the beginning the weight loss was hard, but then it got easier and easier and when I left the academy to go back home at the end of June I was 2 kilos lighter. It was at home when I started tracking food with myfitnesspal (just calories, not macros. As I said I had no clue about nutrition). I began to overexercise as well (my normal training is my job but I would often add strenuous cardio) and ate 1200-1300 calories while doing over 4 hours of sport activities a day. I would often feel tired and lazy but I wanted to lose weight quickly. By september I was 55 kgs and that's my current weight even if I've been trying to bulk during these last months. I didn't get the results I wanted (gain 2-3 kgs with less fat as possible) and last week I decided to make a big change: no more tracking, no more limiting food. I know I get enough proteins (even too much actually) so I do not have that kind of problem that forces me to track macros. People told me I had an ED so I couldn't just "stop counting and worrying about food" from one day to another. But it actually went pretty well. I've been in turkey for 5 days and ate like a pig. I didn't gain a single pound but I enjoyed the food I wanted (without pigging on pizza and french fries cause I tried to keep it more or less clean) but the most important thing is not the fact that I didn't gain (probably 5 days is too little) but the fact that I've been able to eat without even trying to estimate calories in my mind (which is impossible at a buffet anyways). I can say I'm proud of myself! Now I'm back home, I do not limit foods I ued to limit before (I used to cut on fruits and veggies cause of sugar or avoid red meats etc). I just eat whatever I want, whenever I want, while trying to keep it healthy. Next step is not checking my weight for one week. I'm obsessed with the scale and I jump on it multiple times a day even if I don't get influenced by the numbers I see cause I'm concerned about fluctuations. I weighed myslef this morniinng and I'll try to avoid the scale til next week. I hope that by eating whatever I want I will finally gain some weight and see results without worrying about fat gains, but I'm already proud with the progress I've done!!

[determined4000]

glad to hear it Tears of ice

[AnnalisaLynn]

@Ababy821

I understand those feelings of not wanting to gain fat and I know how it sometimes feels useless trying to talk yourself out of it because the fear seems so great....but that's just your eating disorder playing it's usual games and you have to start seeing those thoughts for what they are. There is a part of you wired around survival and you need to use that. Whether or not you feel that you look like you have an eating disorder your body is under a lot of stress and there is only so long that you can get away with it without being hospitalized. I remember when I was first told something similar I almost felt a sick sense of satisfaction as if I'd finally started to accomplish something but THAT was just me giving up on myself like I felt everyone else had and should. But if you want to live that healthy life you are after you have to start fighting hard for what you're after and not let your ED do the talking. It's a very convincing liar but you know better which is why you have started making changes so don't stop now. I have full faith in you.

Are you still training and counting calories?

[ErikTheElectric]

Evening all, I hope everyone has been doing/faring well throughout the new year. I've been reading over everyones posts, and have been taking note of everyones achievements and such. It's great that we've gotten such a solid group support thread for everyone to read each others stories and offer encouragement and support when needed.
One thing that I've taken too in the past, and that I've lost both the time and interest in is writing and journaling about my thoughts, and emotions throughout my disease. People have told me in the past that I should share my thoughts with others (hence my creation of my "blog" on a separate website) because it's been able to help others, both in a general sense and in an "ED sense". Which warms my heart and encouraged me in the past to keep writing and reach out to others whenever I myself felt alone or like my "voice was lost".

Anyways, I plan on starting up again. Just getting some thoughts and emotions out, and I encourage others to do the same. I have come to a lot of realizations, especially over the few months.. call it a sense of "self discovery" if you will. Both regarding my mental well being and physical well being. Discovering the roots of my eating disorder, tracing back to where everything began and started, and why I chose to engage in my disordered behaviors, and reshaping my thought process and cognitive distortions. One thing I wanted to bring to light and share with everyone tonight is the fact that the world will ALWAYS keep spinning, regardless of what we choose to do. Whether we workout, whether we go to work and live the same boring and unfulfilled life that we no doubt live when we are our diseases and disorders, if we choose not to live the life that we are destined to live because we are too focused on being "safe". The world doesn't stop spinning and wait for us, it keeps going. Whether we woke up tomorrow, or not.. life would go on. That's why it's so important to truly live every single day, as much as we can live it. To get as much as we can out of each day, without focusing on the minor and trivial things in life. Be it.. food, calories, weight, body image, binging, purging, restricting, you all get the picture. At the end of the day, if we choose to engage in these things it truly does nothing but perpetuate our diseases and make life LESS fulfilling and in the end is nothing but negative towards us.

Of course, we've all done this in the past. Over and over again, creating a false sense of security within our minds. Which has led us to thinking that these types of behaviors, are "okay" which in turn instills a false sense of rationality in our minds. For some, it takes YEARS and YEARS of intentionally breaking this thought..doing the OPPOSITE, and ignoring these thoughts to be "normal" again. Which is honestly scary, for some.. it can take less, and for others..it can take longer. But it can be done, I promise all of you.

Just felt like sharing that with everyone, keep moving forward everyone. You all deserve the best and will have the best lives only if you CHOOSE to do so. It's all up to you!

[LKvvvv]

Alright so I should've listened before and ate at maintenance for awhile but hopefully this week will have been my last binge/purge. Problem is I just don't know if I can eat (normally again) i'm kinda fearing testing my limits and I just feel like I failed my fat loss goal and feel pretty awful. But i'll give this a shot for awhile and then eat at a modest deficit. I went from starving myself of like 80 lbs in a year to starving/purging. I just hope this can make me mentally consistent and hope me sleep at night again so I can cut my last 10 lbs someday in the near future.

[JakeSim]

So, I'm back.

I've been really really good with my binging and I feel that has improved but since I've been thinking cals on a weekly basis I've been using days to eat extra and now I'm stuck in a loop of trying to make up for one day (Monday) because I had double cals that one day and I've been unable to decrease my calories the passed few days by a little. I just keep thinking about food.

I feel like I don't need a days worth of food because of bloat still and I'm not that hungry but I still feel like I want food.

Then Thursday I ate 500 extra along with the extra 2.6k cals on Monday. So I feel like I need to make up for it because....I ate almost a lb worth of extra food throughout the week. I have 2.5k cals left to meet my goal for which I feel like I can't eat tomorrow so I can hit the 2.5k on the last day of the week (Sunday).

I feel like this because I don't want to mess up my lean bulk. :/

I am seeing someone's she's helping me, but it's a process. I am glad however I haven't stuffed my face entirely with food much at all without caring. I at least keep it controlled. Which again, is a step.

[ShyGuyXS]

Well, a major update for me, although it probably won't be too surprising to you.

After talking with my doctor and therapist earlier this week, we came to the consensus that although I have been making some progress, I'm still in the danger zone. They decided that it would be in my best interest to set everything aside for a while and get me into an inpatient program immediately. It was definitely not what I wanted to hear, especially smack-dab in the middle of a busy semester and despite the progress I've made. I would be lying if I said I didn't break down right there and then.

At this point, I have no choice. I'm in the process of making arrangements, and I start next week.

My mind.... my body.... it's not in the right place right now. It's like a broken wind-up toy that desperately needs to be fixed. I'm tired of the pain, the weakness, the daily struggles, the fear, and the mental battles.

I know they're right. As much as I want to stay and keep up with my college schedule, work, and my friends, I realize my first priority is my health. I need to do what is best for me and my future now, or there won't be one. I think it truly will be that "big step" I need to take to conquer this and start living in the moment again.

Keep fighting, everyone. Don't give up!

[determined4000]

@shyguy

I am sooo happy to hear the news.
You actually seem very level-headed about knowing you need and accepting the help
Missing 1 semester means nothing when you consider the year os life ahead of you that you will now be gaining.

Years filled with life, health and happiness.

You will look back at this as the best decision of your life (srs).

[OceanicWhiteTip]

@AnnalisaLynn

I was tense throughout the group. I think I was waiting for some of the triggers I've found in the past...But none came. I'm still really apprehensive, but my first experience was something to build on, and I plan to go back this Sunday.

In general....up and down. I'm having to monitor my eating a lot more than I like to right now because I am training pretty hard and I have to make sure I am eating enough. Being hungry is a binge trigger, feeling full is a purge trigger, etc etc. But training hard is something that is invaluable to me as far as natural happy endorphins and having a happy relationship with my body. This past Wednesday my boyfriend and I were out of town for a conference for his work, and our hotel room had floor to ceiling mirrors next to the bed (the closet doors). I have a compulsive "check myself out in the mirror" deal, and usually it's fairly critical. This time it was more, "wow, I love the way I look when I'm naked."

So it's a balancing act. I talked to a trainer at my gym who has known me for a while about my concerns about overtraining and he helped me tweak some things in my routine to make it more balanced.

All in all....I'm doing pretty well with my actions. But my head is still an exhausting mess.