Are/were any of you guys throwers?

[Belzoni]

Just wondering it seems like a lot of older throwers were good lifters and vice versa. Started shot out today for first time, have a good head start on the others but was looking for tips and training considerations

[Reidy]

I've thrown a baseball 90 MPH if that counts...

[Belzoni]

I've thrown a baseball 90 MPH if that counts...

Was it 12-16lbs? Haha impressive nonetheless

[LudiWithKnives]

i used to do javelin but was before i lifted seriously and i never actually got really into it. it was fun though but this probably doesnt help you at all lol

[Belzoni]

i used to do javelin but was before i lifted seriously and i never actually got really into it. it was fun though but this probably doesnt help you at all lol

Well, do you think knowing what you know now about training, you'd have done anything particular?

[DaTruth1]

I had no athletic background prior to lifting... I did Taekwondo as a kid and did some bjj/kickboxing a couple years ago.

[Robination]

I had no athletic background prior to lifting... I did Taekwondo as a kid and did some bjj/kickboxing a couple years ago.

**** me too

minus the kickboxing

minus the bjj if a few months doesn't count

...

[LudiWithKnives]

Well, do you think knowing what you know now about training, you'd have done anything particular?

well squatting is a must because you need to build a strong posterior chain strength (glute/ham) and quad strength. im sure CNJ will help with your extension when you throw. also the jerk should probably help a lot in transferring energy from the legs to the bar/shot

[Belzoni]

I had no athletic background prior to lifting... I did Taekwondo as a kid and did some bjj/kickboxing a couple years ago.

Yeah, all I've done is tkd and wrestling. I don't think golf and tennis apply

At ludi, good tips

[matjusm]

Olympic weightlifting is what encouraged me to take up throwing. It all started with a video of discus thrower Märt Israel doing the power clean. This is not the exact video but similar:


I thought to myself that the kind of stuff he is doing in the gym is very similar to what I do and since he lifts big and throws, I might as well give throwing a shot as well. So I tried shot put and discus and ended up focusing more on the latter. Lately however I have been forced to give up my throwing, at least temporarily, since due to work commitments I just can't make any training sessions any more. I keep lifting though and I long for the day I step back in the ring to hurl the discus with all the power I have developed on the platform. I just like the feeling to be able to apply the physical abilities I develop in weightlifting in some other sport as well.

[Belzoni]

Olympic weightlifting is what encouraged me to take up throwing. It all started with a video of discus thrower Märt Israel doing the power clean. This is not the exact video but similar:


I thought to myself that the kind of stuff he is doing in the gym is very similar to what I do and since he lifts big and throws, I might as well give throwing a shot as well. So I tried shot put and discus and ended up focusing more on the latter. Lately however I have been forced to give up my throwing, at least temporarily, since due to work commitments I just can't make any training sessions any more. I keep lifting though and I long for the day I step back in the ring to hurl the discus with all the power I have developed on the platform. I just like the feeling to be able to apply the physical abilities I develop in weightlifting in some other sport as well.

Wow! Exact same sentiments I had! Except I saw some vids of Brian Oldfield. I'm interested in the discus also but I have to wait for spring track for that. Seems very aesthetic. So did you take extra upper body strength into your program? My training was basically the lifts, squats, and the occasional high pull. Considering adding heavy overhead pressing

[matjusm]

Wow! Exact same sentiments I had! Except I saw some vids of Brian Oldfield. I'm interested in the discus also but I have to wait for spring track for that. Seems very aesthetic. So did you take extra upper body strength into your program? My training was basically the lifts, squats, and the occasional high pull. Considering adding heavy overhead pressing

Not really. My program has never been 100% pure Oly lifting, I've always had bench press and pull ups in there, plus plenty of overhead work (which is still very applicable for weightlifting but also the throws). Did start doing a bit more plyometrics though, specifically hurdle and box jumps, some sprints and Russian twists.

[Belzoni]

Not really. My program has never been 100% pure Oly lifting, I've always had bench press and pull ups in there, plus plenty of overhead work (which is still very applicable for weightlifting but also the throws). Did start doing a bit more plyometrics though, specifically hurdle and box jumps, some sprints and Russian twists.

Very interesting, thanks a lot!

[WHT_LIGHTNING]

if any of us were pretty good throwers, we would all be much better weightlifters, haha


Only football and baseball growing up, if I could redo it all over again, I would probably choose either just baseball or throwing/football, lol

[EasternHammer]

DIII All-American checking in here, hammer throw. What do you want to know?

[Belzoni]

DIII All-American checking in here, hammer throw. What do you want to know?

Awesome! Um, how many times a week did you do quick lifts/power lifts? Do you think you should train abs outside of just compounds? What do you thin the most important exercise is? Is conditioning important at all? Did you do a lot of dexterity/agility drills?

[EasternHammer]

Awesome! Um, how many times a week did you do quick lifts/power lifts? Do you think you should train abs outside of just compounds? What do you thin the most important exercise is? Is conditioning important at all? Did you do a lot of dexterity/agility drills?

Hey there, sorry it took so long to respond. I'll answer your questions then give you some of my thoughts on training generally.

1) For the first six or so years of my track career, I followed a pretty standard linear program. I lifted four days a week, hitting the big compounds like power clean/snatch, squat, bench press. Always periodized, based on percentages. The intensity/volume/frequency varied based on what time of year it was, naturally. In the last two years, when I specialized only in hammer, I generally lifted three days a week. I did Oly lifts and squats in every workout.

2) Never trained abs specifically but it won't hurt you. But you could probably spend your time better doing other things.

3) The most important exercise? If you mean in the weightroom, none. Throwing technique is much, much more important.

4) In my honest opinion, drills are of little value, particularly once you reach even an intermediate level. For a beginner with the shot put, you need to be able to do a competent standing throw. And then keep doing it. I would recommend at least 16-20 throws a day, particularly this time of year. You need that volume to create a solid base.

5) If you mean cardiovascular conditioning, no it is not important. What is important is the kind of neuromuscular conditioning which allows one to take larger and larger volume in the training program. You must be able to take many throws, day after day, without decline in technical ability. When I was at my peak, during summer training before my senior year, I was throwing twice a day, at least 25 attempts per session. That kind of volume is necessary to improve.


Since you are a self-described beginner, I'll keep my advice simple. At this point, all you need to improve is to simply throw more. Hopefully you have a decent coach who can show you the proper positions and such. Beyond that...eat! Put some weight on, in a clean way. With good technique you can have some success. When I was your age I was 5'9", 185. I threw the shot put 48 feet. You can do it as well.

[Belzoni]

Hey there, sorry it took so long to respond. I'll answer your questions then give you some of my thoughts on training generally.

1) For the first six or so years of my track career, I followed a pretty standard linear program. I lifted four days a week, hitting the big compounds like power clean/snatch, squat, bench press. Always periodized, based on percentages. The intensity/volume/frequency varied based on what time of year it was, naturally. In the last two years, when I specialized only in hammer, I generally lifted three days a week. I did Oly lifts and squats in every workout.

2) Never trained abs specifically but it won't hurt you. But you could probably spend your time better doing other things.

3) The most important exercise? If you mean in the weightroom, none. Throwing technique is much, much more important.

4) In my honest opinion, drills are of little value, particularly once you reach even an intermediate level. For a beginner with the shot put, you need to be able to do a competent standing throw. And then keep doing it. I would recommend at least 16-20 throws a day, particularly this time of year. You need that volume to create a solid base.

5) If you mean cardiovascular conditioning, no it is not important. What is important is the kind of neuromuscular conditioning which allows one to take larger and larger volume in the training program. You must be able to take many throws, day after day, without decline in technical ability. When I was at my peak, during summer training before my senior year, I was throwing twice a day, at least 25 attempts per session. That kind of volume is necessary to improve.


Since you are a self-described beginner, I'll keep my advice simple. At this point, all you need to improve is to simply throw more. Hopefully you have a decent coach who can show you the proper positions and such. Beyond that...eat! Put some weight on, in a clean way. With good technique you can have some success. When I was your age I was 5'9", 185. I threw the shot put 48 feet. You can do it as well.

Well, it sounds like the weights are taken care of, I just have to throw more. It's tough because we're alternating girls and guys throwing days so some weeks I get two practices some I get three... I'm gonna buy some shots and drill in my yard. Any thoughts on overweight/underweight implements?

I really do appreciate the response, and I'm taking it seriously. I wanna be good at something before I leave high school. I'm gonna throw more and gain some pounds

[KevJr88]

I boxed for a year, did oly for a year and then briefly returned to boxing. I hit much harder, indeed. And I wasn't a particularly strong weIghtlifter.

[EasternHammer]

Well, it sounds like the weights are taken care of, I just have to throw more. It's tough because we're alternating girls and guys throwing days so some weeks I get two practices some I get three... I'm gonna buy some shots and drill in my yard. Any thoughts on overweight/underweight implements?

I really do appreciate the response, and I'm taking it seriously. I wanna be good at something before I leave high school. I'm gonna throw more and gain some pounds

For shot put and discus, throwing overweight implements will become a significant part of training. Particularly overweight standing throws in the shot. Just remember to develop decent form in that standing throw before bringing in a 6k, 15#, 7.26k, 8k ball. Regarding underweight implements, I do not recommend them in shot/disc.

[Belzoni]

For shot put and discus, throwing overweight implements will become a significant part of training. Particularly overweight standing throws in the shot. Just remember to develop decent form in that standing throw before bringing in a 6k, 15#, 7.26k, 8k ball. Regarding underweight implements, I do not recommend them in shot/disc.

Awesome man, I really appreciate the advice

[GetHimABodyBag]

EasternHammer, for those who are not interested in competition throwing but want some of the benefits and some variety in training, what can you recommend I do with a 10 pound medicine ball? Do throwers do any med. ball work?

I do standing overhead throws, from the chest throw, and behind the back(Strongman Keg Toss style).

What are some numbers of strong throwers you have seen on the clean, snatch, press, bench, squat, and deadlift?

[Belzoni]

EasternHammer, for those who are not interested in competition throwing but want some of the benefits and some variety in training, what can you recommend I do with a 10 pound medicine ball? Do throwers do any med. ball work?

I do standing overhead throws, from the chest throw, and behind the back(Strongman Keg Toss style).

What are some numbers of strong throwers you have seen on the clean, snatch, press, bench, squat, and deadlift?

Hammer would know more than me but I know that

George Frenn hammer thrower could deadlift over 800 and squat over 700

Brian Oldfield shot putter could squat 625lbs for over 25 reps, an bench 420lbs. He could jerk 310lbs but could easily do more. Could clean well over 400.

Ricky bruch discus and shot early in career could bench 500x2 behind the neck jerk with well over 400lbs, box squat over 600lbs

Gary gubner shot putter could overhead press over 400lbs, snatch nearly 400, and clean an jerk I think 420, not sure

[GetHimABodyBag]

Good lord!

[Belzoni]

Good lord!

But you have to take into account tht except for gubner and Frenn, these guys were not competing in the lifts they were doing them to improve their lifts so their form was not exactly perfect ie benches bounced, jerks pressed out, cleans and snatches with wide catches not pretty squats. I mean gubner was said to have had hideous technique he was just brutally strog. I think Frenn was one of the early westside guys though

[matjusm]

But you have to take into account tht except for gubner and Frenn, these guys were not competing in the lifts they were doing them to improve their lifts so their form was not exactly perfect ie benches bounced, jerks pressed out, cleans and snatches with wide catches not pretty squats. I mean gubner was said to have had hideous technique he was just brutally strog. I think Frenn was one of the early westside guys though

Outside of weightlifters/powerlifters, throwers will be the strongest athletes you'll find. 180kg power cleans, 130kg snatches, 250+kg squats and 200+kg bench presses are the standard for shot and discus throwers, a bit less for javelin throwers (not sure about hammer, don't know much about that).
Supposedly Robert Fazekas (discus gold in the Olympics but was disqualified for juicing) can snatch 170kg and clean 220kg.

Noah Bryant (shot put) has a 150kg snatch:


And a 210kg clean:

[EasternHammer]

EasternHammer, for those who are not interested in competition throwing but want some of the benefits and some variety in training, what can you recommend I do with a 10 pound medicine ball? Do throwers do any med. ball work?

I do standing overhead throws, from the chest throw, and behind the back(Strongman Keg Toss style).

What are some numbers of strong throwers you have seen on the clean, snatch, press, bench, squat, and deadlift?

Medicine balls are pretty good for ballistic work. Once it gets too light however, I would look into buying what we called "puds." We had a 20# and 35# version. It's basically just a block of cast iron with a U-shaped handle. With the 20# we would do single-arm tosses, double-arm with the #35. Also, if you have the money, you can buy a heavy hammer and do winds with it, good for core strength.


Strength levels vary a lot, because you have different body types and events. Also, the best weightlifters are NOT necessarily the best throwers, because long limbs=good for athletes, not for lifting. Um...I had pretty good Oly lifts. I cleaned 140kg and snatched 100, best squat was 200x3 and 215x1. Our best shotputter was pushing 400+ on the bench. It varies a lot, plus you have to remember that athletes can't always devote a great deal of energy to lifting, because their sport and technique work always come first. We never deadlifted, ever. I don't think athletes or even Oly weightlifters should pull supermaximal weights (We had a long thread about this a few months ago, lol).

[EasternHammer]

Also, "GetHimABodyBag" I love the screenname. Karate Kid references alway make me smile. Sweep the leg!

[Belzoni]

Medicine balls are pretty good for ballistic work. Once it gets too light however, I would look into buying what we called "puds." We had a 20# and 35# version. It's basically just a block of cast iron with a U-shaped handle. With the 20# we would do single-arm tosses, double-arm with the #35. Also, if you have the money, you can buy a heavy hammer and do winds with it, good for core strength.


Strength levels vary a lot, because you have different body types and events. Also, the best weightlifters are NOT necessarily the best throwers, because long limbs=good for athletes, not for lifting. Um...I had pretty good Oly lifts. I cleaned 140kg and snatched 100, best squat was 200x3 and 215x1. Our best shotputter was pushing 400+ on the bench. It varies a lot, plus you have to remember that athletes can't always devote a great deal of energy to lifting, because their sport and technique work always come first. We never deadlifted, ever. I don't think athletes or even Oly weightlifters should pull supermaximal weights (We had a long thread about this a few months ago, lol).

Wait, do you mean like kettlebells?

[EasternHammer]

Wait, do you mean like kettlebells?

I think it's similar to a kettle bell, but the handle is fixed, it doesn't move at all. Kettlebells have a swivel don't they? I could be wrong.