Just wondering it seems like a lot of older throwers were good lifters and vice versa. Started shot out today for first time, have a good head start on the others but was looking for tips and training considerations
|
-
11-27-2012, 11:22 AM #1
-
11-27-2012, 01:48 PM #2
-
11-27-2012, 01:58 PM #3
-
11-27-2012, 06:30 PM #4
i used to do javelin but was before i lifted seriously and i never actually got really into it. it was fun though but this probably doesnt help you at all lol
.........(july 23, 2010)
Bench 200
Squat 335
Deadlift 375
Snatch/CnJ 84kg/108.5kg (sept 23, 2011)
ATG 134kg
FS 120kg
get jacked, squat rack
do rows; working on your back
doievenlift.tumblr.com
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
ELE2 CREW FOUNDER
-
-
11-27-2012, 06:33 PM #5
-
11-27-2012, 06:35 PM #6
-
11-27-2012, 07:39 PM #7
-
11-28-2012, 10:31 AM #8
-
-
11-28-2012, 11:16 AM #9
-
11-28-2012, 11:59 AM #10
- Join Date: Aug 2008
- Location: London, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
- Age: 35
- Posts: 3,382
- Rep Power: 2803
Olympic weightlifting is what encouraged me to take up throwing. It all started with a video of discus thrower Märt Israel doing the power clean. This is not the exact video but similar:
I thought to myself that the kind of stuff he is doing in the gym is very similar to what I do and since he lifts big and throws, I might as well give throwing a shot as well. So I tried shot put and discus and ended up focusing more on the latter. Lately however I have been forced to give up my throwing, at least temporarily, since due to work commitments I just can't make any training sessions any more. I keep lifting though and I long for the day I step back in the ring to hurl the discus with all the power I have developed on the platform. I just like the feeling to be able to apply the physical abilities I develop in weightlifting in some other sport as well.Strength + Speed = Power
If you never fail, you aren't truly pushing yourself to the limit. If you never push yourself to the limit, how do you know what you're truly capable of?
-
11-28-2012, 02:09 PM #11
Wow! Exact same sentiments I had! Except I saw some vids of Brian Oldfield. I'm interested in the discus also but I have to wait for spring track for that. Seems very aesthetic. So did you take extra upper body strength into your program? My training was basically the lifts, squats, and the occasional high pull. Considering adding heavy overhead pressing
-
11-28-2012, 03:26 PM #12
- Join Date: Aug 2008
- Location: London, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
- Age: 35
- Posts: 3,382
- Rep Power: 2803
Not really. My program has never been 100% pure Oly lifting, I've always had bench press and pull ups in there, plus plenty of overhead work (which is still very applicable for weightlifting but also the throws). Did start doing a bit more plyometrics though, specifically hurdle and box jumps, some sprints and Russian twists.
Strength + Speed = Power
If you never fail, you aren't truly pushing yourself to the limit. If you never push yourself to the limit, how do you know what you're truly capable of?
-
-
11-28-2012, 04:02 PM #13
-
11-28-2012, 07:14 PM #14
- Join Date: Mar 2010
- Location: Sarasota, Florida, United States
- Posts: 3,208
- Rep Power: 2692
if any of us were pretty good throwers, we would all be much better weightlifters, haha
Only football and baseball growing up, if I could redo it all over again, I would probably choose either just baseball or throwing/football, lolBryan
Captain of the Comeback Train
Comeback Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=159651791
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/STRONGMANbarry/videos
-
11-29-2012, 03:11 PM #15
-
11-29-2012, 05:12 PM #16
-
-
11-30-2012, 10:20 PM #17
Hey there, sorry it took so long to respond. I'll answer your questions then give you some of my thoughts on training generally.
1) For the first six or so years of my track career, I followed a pretty standard linear program. I lifted four days a week, hitting the big compounds like power clean/snatch, squat, bench press. Always periodized, based on percentages. The intensity/volume/frequency varied based on what time of year it was, naturally. In the last two years, when I specialized only in hammer, I generally lifted three days a week. I did Oly lifts and squats in every workout.
2) Never trained abs specifically but it won't hurt you. But you could probably spend your time better doing other things.
3) The most important exercise? If you mean in the weightroom, none. Throwing technique is much, much more important.
4) In my honest opinion, drills are of little value, particularly once you reach even an intermediate level. For a beginner with the shot put, you need to be able to do a competent standing throw. And then keep doing it. I would recommend at least 16-20 throws a day, particularly this time of year. You need that volume to create a solid base.
5) If you mean cardiovascular conditioning, no it is not important. What is important is the kind of neuromuscular conditioning which allows one to take larger and larger volume in the training program. You must be able to take many throws, day after day, without decline in technical ability. When I was at my peak, during summer training before my senior year, I was throwing twice a day, at least 25 attempts per session. That kind of volume is necessary to improve.
Since you are a self-described beginner, I'll keep my advice simple. At this point, all you need to improve is to simply throw more. Hopefully you have a decent coach who can show you the proper positions and such. Beyond that...eat! Put some weight on, in a clean way. With good technique you can have some success. When I was your age I was 5'9", 185. I threw the shot put 48 feet. You can do it as well.
-
12-01-2012, 11:22 AM #18
Well, it sounds like the weights are taken care of, I just have to throw more. It's tough because we're alternating girls and guys throwing days so some weeks I get two practices some I get three... I'm gonna buy some shots and drill in my yard. Any thoughts on overweight/underweight implements?
I really do appreciate the response, and I'm taking it seriously. I wanna be good at something before I leave high school. I'm gonna throw more and gain some pounds
-
12-01-2012, 12:19 PM #19
-
12-01-2012, 07:42 PM #20
For shot put and discus, throwing overweight implements will become a significant part of training. Particularly overweight standing throws in the shot. Just remember to develop decent form in that standing throw before bringing in a 6k, 15#, 7.26k, 8k ball. Regarding underweight implements, I do not recommend them in shot/disc.
-
-
12-01-2012, 08:17 PM #21
-
12-02-2012, 09:19 AM #22
EasternHammer, for those who are not interested in competition throwing but want some of the benefits and some variety in training, what can you recommend I do with a 10 pound medicine ball? Do throwers do any med. ball work?
I do standing overhead throws, from the chest throw, and behind the back(Strongman Keg Toss style).
What are some numbers of strong throwers you have seen on the clean, snatch, press, bench, squat, and deadlift?
-
12-02-2012, 10:16 AM #23
Hammer would know more than me but I know that
George Frenn hammer thrower could deadlift over 800 and squat over 700
Brian Oldfield shot putter could squat 625lbs for over 25 reps, an bench 420lbs. He could jerk 310lbs but could easily do more. Could clean well over 400.
Ricky bruch discus and shot early in career could bench 500x2 behind the neck jerk with well over 400lbs, box squat over 600lbs
Gary gubner shot putter could overhead press over 400lbs, snatch nearly 400, and clean an jerk I think 420, not sure
-
12-02-2012, 10:40 AM #24
-
-
12-02-2012, 11:12 AM #25
But you have to take into account tht except for gubner and Frenn, these guys were not competing in the lifts they were doing them to improve their lifts so their form was not exactly perfect ie benches bounced, jerks pressed out, cleans and snatches with wide catches not pretty squats. I mean gubner was said to have had hideous technique he was just brutally strog. I think Frenn was one of the early westside guys though
-
12-02-2012, 01:00 PM #26
- Join Date: Aug 2008
- Location: London, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
- Age: 35
- Posts: 3,382
- Rep Power: 2803
Outside of weightlifters/powerlifters, throwers will be the strongest athletes you'll find. 180kg power cleans, 130kg snatches, 250+kg squats and 200+kg bench presses are the standard for shot and discus throwers, a bit less for javelin throwers (not sure about hammer, don't know much about that).
Supposedly Robert Fazekas (discus gold in the Olympics but was disqualified for juicing) can snatch 170kg and clean 220kg.
Noah Bryant (shot put) has a 150kg snatch:
And a 210kg clean:
Strength + Speed = Power
If you never fail, you aren't truly pushing yourself to the limit. If you never push yourself to the limit, how do you know what you're truly capable of?
-
12-02-2012, 01:56 PM #27
Medicine balls are pretty good for ballistic work. Once it gets too light however, I would look into buying what we called "puds." We had a 20# and 35# version. It's basically just a block of cast iron with a U-shaped handle. With the 20# we would do single-arm tosses, double-arm with the #35. Also, if you have the money, you can buy a heavy hammer and do winds with it, good for core strength.
Strength levels vary a lot, because you have different body types and events. Also, the best weightlifters are NOT necessarily the best throwers, because long limbs=good for athletes, not for lifting. Um...I had pretty good Oly lifts. I cleaned 140kg and snatched 100, best squat was 200x3 and 215x1. Our best shotputter was pushing 400+ on the bench. It varies a lot, plus you have to remember that athletes can't always devote a great deal of energy to lifting, because their sport and technique work always come first. We never deadlifted, ever. I don't think athletes or even Oly weightlifters should pull supermaximal weights (We had a long thread about this a few months ago, lol).
-
12-02-2012, 01:59 PM #28
-
-
12-02-2012, 02:15 PM #29
-
12-02-2012, 03:22 PM #30
Bookmarks