Deadlift = Squat, Thus... a form check is order

[CheslinK]

Here's a video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsI6QN4lFdM
maybe 3 months old of me pulling 320x4 (5 fail). Yeah, sucks.

My squat at the time was 315x5.

I pulled 320x5 like a charm last week. This week my traps/shoulders/biceps/elbows/forearms felt jacked up for some reason so 330x5 today was awful and I struggled to lock out each rep even on warmups. I did not catch it on video. Next week I'm pulling 340x5. I can see it happening if everything heals up in my upper body.

Anyways, I suppose my form is quite similar to the **** in this video. I've recently begun trying to load my hams before I sit back and down... I definitely was doing touch and go in that video as well. Almost looks like I was SLDLing toward the end.

Are there any glaring assessments one could make? Would a different angle provide better information? (So I can film better next week)

I'm frustrated to see how people have deadlifts that are so much higher than their squats. I'd be pushing mid 4's if my ratio were like others... so I'm wondering what's wrong. I assume it's a form thing. I went to the doc a while back for knee problems and he said my vastus medialias was overdeveloped compared to the outer quad and hammies. Since this video I've taken some steps to increase my posterior chain, and corrected the knee issues.

I've gotten to the point where I can squat 350x5 wide stance quite easily... wouldn't you suppose my deadlift should be 400+??? Deadlift is harder than squat for me to put weight on the bar... biggest struggle so I'd like to switch these numbers around and put deadlift ahead.

Cheers and thanks for any feedback.

[LlamaWithARifle]

Your hips shoot up first, as a result your shoulders go right in front of the bar putting you in a terrible pulling position.

Can't really see how close you keep the bar to your body since the plates cover it up.

Film a fresh form vid though, your form could have changed for the better or worse in the space of 3 months.

Also a squat form check would be good, you might just be not squatting to parallel hence why your squat and deadlift are so similar.

[InspecktaDeck]

Your not getting any leg drive on your deads. Your hips shoot strait up and you stiff leg it. Also, are you taking a full breath of air in between sets so you can get a nice tight core? Your deadlift wont always be higher then your squat, you might be squatting high or deadlift needs work etc etc

edit

^^^^ wizards

[ParsonBrown]

It looks like there is almost 0 leg drive there. On the first rep your hip shoots straight up first and it never goes back down.

[Jasonk282]

Like the other two have said. You need more leg drive you are SLDL the weight up. Also you are either squatting high( high probability) or you are deadlifting wrong( high probability)...to be honest it's probably a combination of both.

[baxtej44]

i had the high hip problem too.. working on it now. easier once you realize what you're doing wrong

[CheslinK]

Great feedback! Thank you guys... seems like everyone has the same consensus.

Since I couldn't hold my upper back tight my lower back took a huge brunt yesterday, I certainly SLDLed the whole time... my lower back feels like it's being clamped together.

I'll get some videos of my squats heavy day on Friday. I always hit parallel, I thought... might need a form check on that as well. You guys recommend parallel or ATG? Video coming for Friday then. However, since my bodies all jacked up right now I'll be waiting until next Wednesday for deads again.

In terms of employing some notes on how to keep hips low when driving up... suggestions?

I don't really feel the leg drive and am not sure what's going on. Could my hammies be that weak that in order to lift weight when it nears 90% my body is overcompensating by throwing me into a position where I utilize the stronger muscles that will lift me, hence leaning forward and SLDLing the weight?

I may be doing everything entirely whack when it comes to using my posterior chain... RDLs, try to put my hips back as far as possible to get down. I feel it with light weight, but once it gets heavier I stop feeling it in hams. Attemping bastardized glute ham raises, have to use bands and a makeshift way to do them since no GHR machine exists in Korea except at the Olympic stadium training room. On the 45 degree hyper I'm thrusting and squeezing through with my glutes to get up, I feel it in the glutes, but not in the hams. I feel like I've ready every article about strengthening the posterior chain... what's not clicking?

Looks like I've got a lot of work to do. Hopefully, when I film these squats you guys commend me. It finally feels like those have hit the sweet spot within the last 2 weeks. Let's see.

Cheers.

[CheslinK]

Your not getting any leg drive on your deads. Your hips shoot strait up and you stiff leg it. Also, are you taking a full breath of air in between sets so you can get a nice tight core? Your deadlift wont always be higher then your squat, you might be squatting high or deadlift needs work etc etc

edit

^^^^ wizards

I just realized there are two different things I could be doing.

Hold breath during a rep
a. Push abs out while filling belly (pregnant look), flex abs
b. Flex abs, filly belly with air

Feels like there's a lot more internal pressure with option b.

What do you suggest?

[InspecktaDeck]

I just realized there are two different things I could be doing.

Hold breath during a rep
a. Push abs out while filling belly (pregnant look), flex abs
b. Flex abs, filly belly with air

Feels like there's a lot more internal pressure with option b.

What do you suggest?

Take in the air first, then flex down. You want to fill your gut up as much as possible, and you should be holding your breath thru as much of the lift as possible. But hey if the first one works for you its whatever.

-Squat: I breath at the top of each rep.
-Deads: I take breath in, pull- and release breath on lockout.
-Bench: all reps on one breath, this gets hard if Im doing sets of 5 after heavy squat so Ill hit 3 on 1 breath, last 2 on another.

As soon as you loose tightness on any lift, it goes to chit.

[Norse1308]

Not trying to be a jerk, but why wearing knee sleeves when straight-leg bouncing 3 plates off of the floor?

Start over with lighter weight until you can do it correctly. Push your stomach out as hard as you can with a deep breath and try to keep your trunk upright. If you can't do this, then stretch or try sumo.

[arian11]

Squat lower. And don't blend your reps on any of your lifts until you have the basic movement down atleast.

[WorldDomnit]

This thread should be called 'How to do proper Romanian deadlifts'

[Norse1308]

Squat lower. And don't blend your reps on any of your lifts until you have the basic movement down atleast.

Make every rep like your 4th and 5th one.

[CheslinK]

Not trying to be a jerk, but why wearing knee sleeves when straight-leg bouncing 3 plates off of the floor?

Start over with lighter weight until you can do it correctly. Push your stomach out as hard as you can with a deep breath and try to keep your trunk upright. If you can't do this, then stretch or try sumo.

Nah, makes sense. I bought them to help with my knees. I wasn't sure what was wrong with them at the time so I figured anything to help... I just finish squats and leave them on usually.

Trunk upright, check.

[CheslinK]

Squat lower. And don't blend your reps on any of your lifts until you have the basic movement down atleast.

Thanks, I'll start from a dead stop each rep.

Indeed, the first 2-3 on that are not low enough.

LoL would it make sense I can only sumo maybe 100lbs less than conventional? I dunno the form on that either, but from what I've tried I'm far weaker.

[CheslinK]

Like I said, new squat stance. Today, I PRed 175kg. +40 lbs from 6 weeks ago.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8F_LaGNSfZA

I then attempted 190kg, 4 times. I thought I was only doing 405 lbs... Damn kg conversions. Anyways, failed those else I'd have posted that. Then went on to do presses.

Bench pressed 275 lbs after, flew up. Attempted 300, but left shoulder gave out. Posted in another thread, but I've been having aches/pain through my traps, inner shoulder, and down into my left bicep. It all feels weak and all connected. Took a week and a half off, but there still seems to be trouble.

Deadlift maxed at 170kg. 374 lbs, I'm pretty sure I could have done 175kg again for deadlift to equal out, but seems I was attempting 200kg after that. Huge jump. Anyways, excuses, blah blah, pulled 170kg.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qHKDxPUqMNw

Tried to keep chest up, and hips from rising too fast. I think I did? Still around the same maxes though. Any advice or critiques?

Cheers and thanks for help in advance!

[xRequiem]

You squat the same as me yet I out pull you by 100lbs. Is this the ratio your talking about?

I switched to sumo because I was having the same form problems then my dl jumped ahead of my squats. Until the low 300s both lifts were equal while doing SS. Fix your conventional though, instead of learning sumo. i really regret .

[CheslinK]

You squat the same as me yet I out pull you by 100lbs. Is this the ratio your talking about?

I switched to sumo because I was having the same form problems then my dl jumped ahead of my squats. Until the low 300s both lifts were equal while doing SS. Fix your conventional though, instead of learning sumo. i really regret .

I know, I've read other threads you've posted in. You're famous!

I started with Starting Strength as well. When I did my first max test my squat and deadlift were equal then as well. Moved on to Madcows and kept the progression the same.

****! I wish my dead were 100lbs heavier. I matched all my friends today, in the 90-100kg class in squats and bench. ****ing deadlift.

If you would not have moved to sumo how would you have progressed so much? My sumo is far worse than my conventional, as I mentioned earlier. I was considering finishing this Madcows run and doing Smolov Jr bench and Ed Coan deadlift. What'd you do bro?

[InspecktaDeck]

Like I said, new squat stance. Today, I PRed 175kg. +40 lbs from 6 weeks ago.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8F_LaGNSfZA

I then attempted 190kg, 4 times. I thought I was only doing 405 lbs... Damn kg conversions. Anyways, failed those else I'd have posted that. Then went on to do presses.

Bench pressed 275 lbs after, flew up. Attempted 300, but left shoulder gave out. Posted in another thread, but I've been having aches/pain through my traps, inner shoulder, and down into my left bicep. It all feels weak and all connected. Took a week and a half off, but there still seems to be trouble.

Deadlift maxed at 170kg. 374 lbs, I'm pretty sure I could have done 175kg again for deadlift to equal out, but seems I was attempting 200kg after that. Huge jump. Anyways, excuses, blah blah, pulled 170kg.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qHKDxPUqMNw

Tried to keep chest up, and hips from rising too fast. I think I did? Still around the same maxes though. Any advice or critiques?

Cheers and thanks for help in advance!

Your squatting a little high, hip crease below knee. Pretty good besides the depth.

[CheslinK]

Your squatting a little high, hip crease below knee. Pretty good besides the depth.

Might be the angle? Everyone there said I went below parallel.

[CheslinK]

Interesting thing. At the gym I went to, when those last two lifts were filmed, there was a glute ham raise... a proper one. I had been thinking my hamstrings were crap, because I've been trying to do these crap makeshift GHRs and they're damn near impossible. On an actual GHR I booted out 6 reps at the end of all my PRing and kettle bell swings. Maybe my hamstrings are not necessarily my limiting factor.

I've tried good mornings and can only do about 135 for reps while maintaining good form. Heavier weight feels sloppy and incorrect. I had a slipped disk in high school so I did not train back or legs at all really. It killed me just to do body weight reverse hypers a few months ago. I have no back pain any longer, but am wondering if all that time with little emphasis on lower back has me at this stupid low point in deadlift... gonna get past this and get that 50+-100+ deadlift over squat ratio everyone else has... wtf.

[arian11]

You squat the same as me yet I out pull you by 100lbs. Is this the ratio your talking about?

That's cuz he squats high.

Might be the angle? Everyone there said I went below parallel.

They are wrong.

[isaku900]

Your squatting a little high, hip crease below knee. Pretty good besides the depth.

this

That's cuz he squats high.

They are wrong.

agreed.

that was high.

[Torrtrefireto]

Might be the angle? Everyone there said I went below parallel.

They aren't even close to being below parallel man. Sorry but its true, at least you got a video and now know what you need to do.

[Heisman2]

You might be a good 6 inches from parallel. Next time have your camera guy record from the side and have him put the camera near the height of your knee and you'll see this.

[CheslinK]

Hrmm... I think I just understood what the hell I've not been getting the past 6 months.

Are you guys saying that parallel means the top of my quad should be parallel to the ground?!? I've been going by when my hammies meet parallel.... O_O

*face palm*

-------------------

How about my deadlift in that video? Everyone was saying my hips were rising too fast before. Any issues with that deadlift?

[Torrtrefireto]

Hrmm... I think I just understood what the hell I've not been getting the past 6 months.

Are you guys saying that parallel means the top of my quad should be parallel to the ground?!? I've been going by when my hammies meet parallel.... O_O

*face palm*

-------------------

How about my deadlift in that video? Everyone was saying my hips were rising too fast before. Any issues with that deadlift?

Both wrong
Crease in hip must be lower than top of knee. If you are very skinny then top of quads parallel to the ground might work

[CheslinK]

Both wrong
Crease in hip must be lower than top of knee. If you are very skinny then top of quads parallel to the ground might work

I see. I found this earlier this afternoon: http://www.usapowerlifting.com/newsl...ce/novice.html

Will keep at this depth for squatting the next few months to see how this has changed my deadlift.

Thanks for the help guys! If this is the solution that would be excellent, and I'll repost a video or at least an explanation of any findings in the next 3-6 months

Now, I need to figure out why my shoulders/biceps are killing me. It's probably bench form time to post that as well.

[keyrock24]

Looks like you have pretty good form on your squat .you need to try to squat that low or lower on your deadlift,s too .i lift at home and built a 6" platform to lift off so I would be forced to squat lower on my deadlift .Plus the biggest plates I have are 25 lb plates .I have a 7 ft bar but it is 1" bar not a Olympic bar .It is easier for me to order with UPS shipping to get a pair of 25 lb plates .it looks like you are using the standard 45 lb plates .which is probably what everyone else uses .
Try squatting lower driving more with your legs before you straighten your back .As far as you being able to deadlift 50 to 100 lbs more than your squat is not quite true .The record in the open men's 165 lb class which is about what I usually weigh .there Is only about 20 to 30 lbs different for the two in the powerlifting records .with naturally the deadlift being higher .
Some of the more popular powerlifting programs only suggest having a dead lift day optional .lIke westside barbell I personally try to deadlift each time I workout .Something like the Starting Strengh routine Sometimes not doing squats since some of the same muscles are involved with each .probably not the best way to workout but I am currently just trying to get a overall fullbody workout doing as few exercises I can using mostly compound exercises .I switch my workout routine up from time to time .
try lifting off a platform if one is available at your gym for your deadlift and remember to use your legs more even if you have to lighten up on your lifts until you get the correct form

[CheslinK]

Looks like you have pretty good form on your squat .you need to try to squat that low or lower on your deadlift,s too .i lift at home and built a 6" platform to lift off so I would be forced to squat lower on my deadlift .Plus the biggest plates I have are 25 lb plates .I have a 7 ft bar but it is 1" bar not a Olympic bar .It is easier for me to order with UPS shipping to get a pair of 25 lb plates .it looks like you are using the standard 45 lb plates .which is probably what everyone else uses .
Try squatting lower driving more with your legs before you straighten your back .As far as you being able to deadlift 50 to 100 lbs more than your squat is not quite true .The record in the open men's 165 lb class which is about what I usually weigh .there Is only about 20 to 30 lbs different for the two in the powerlifting records .with naturally the deadlift being higher .
Some of the more popular powerlifting programs only suggest having a dead lift day optional .lIke westside barbell I personally try to deadlift each time I workout .Something like the Starting Strengh routine Sometimes not doing squats since some of the same muscles are involved with each .probably not the best way to workout but I am currently just trying to get a overall fullbody workout doing as few exercises I can using mostly compound exercises .I switch my workout routine up from time to time .
try lifting off a platform if one is available at your gym for your deadlift and remember to use your legs more even if you have to lighten up on your lifts until you get the correct form

Hrm the only thing I can think of is also using the 25lb plates as well as one of those step up things.

Would that work if I put supports under the middle as well?
With a 6" platform isn't the bar practically sitting on your feet?