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  1. #1
    Registered User NickyNorka's Avatar
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    153lbs to 170lbs My Transformation.

    Hello.

    I am currently

    5 Feet 11 inches tall
    153 LBS
    20% Body fat

    I would like to be

    170 LBS
    7% body fat.


    Do I need to bulk first? Then cut the fat?

    What are the benefits of using Casein Protein before bed?

    What should I be eating?

    How much cardio should I do?

    What should I be lifting?

    Is occam's protocol a good starting point?

    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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  2. #2
    Registered User nevergain's Avatar
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    I would look at the all pro's beginner program in the stickies. I am about to start my third cycle and am enjoying it. I would say bulk first. If you haven't done much exercise before, you may still lose fat just because you are beginning.
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  3. #3
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    If you re a beginner you don`t really need to bulk or cut
    Just make sure you`re lifting hard and that you`re eating good food (Protein and good carbs). Since your body is not used to excercise you ll build muscle and loose fat at the same time

    Casein before bed keeps you in an anabolic (muscle-building) state during your sleep because it digest very slowly

    You should be eating:
    1-Protein - beef, chicken, turkey, tuna, salmon (or any other fish) eggs, protein shakes
    2-Carbs: rice, oats, pasta, whole bread, yams, patatoes etc
    3-Legumes and veggies: beans, lentils, peas, broccoli, spinach etc
    4-fruit: apples, oranges, bananas etc
    5-good fats: Omega-3, almonds, olive oil etc

    Eat protein in every single meal
    Eat carbs in most of your meals. You will need them especially if you re trying to add mass
    Eat veggies when you are not eating cabs
    Use fruits as snacks along with your with your protein shakes

    You should do cardio no more than 4 times a week
    You should lift around 3 times a week, firstly on a full body routine then after a month or so you might want to do a split routine
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  4. #4
    Registered User NickyNorka's Avatar
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    Ok, it has been over a month now and I have not gained a pound. I have been following "occam's Protocol" from the 4 hour body, and eating the following:

    (8 am )- 4 egg whites with one whole egg for flavor, 2 pieces of bacon, Cup of spinach, pinto beans
    (10 am) - Whey Protein Shake
    (1 pm) - Salad with chicken breast
    (3 pm) Quest Bar
    (5 pm) Chicken sausage
    (7 pm) Chicken breast with Broccoli and black beans
    ( 15 minutes before bed) Casein Protein

    I have also been taking an Optimen multi vitamin,

    In my opinion, the problem here must be the workout and not the diet. Any tips?

    As always, your input is greatly appreciated
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  5. #5
    STFU and train Jasonk282's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NickyNorka View Post
    Ok, it has been over a month now and I have not gained a pound.
    Do you know your maintenance level calories?
    With this shield or on it.

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  6. #6
    Registered User NickyNorka's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jasonk282 View Post
    Do you know your maintenance level calories?
    No I do not. Where could I find this information?
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  7. #7
    Registered User NickyNorka's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jasonk282 View Post
    Do you know your maintenance level calories?
    ok. I found a Calculator online 2380 is my maintenance level
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  8. #8
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    Originally Posted by NickyNorka View Post
    Ok, it has been over a month now and I have not gained a pound. I have been following "occam's Protocol" from the 4 hour body, and eating the following:

    (8 am )- 4 egg whites with one whole egg for flavor, 2 pieces of bacon, Cup of spinach, pinto beans
    (10 am) - Whey Protein Shake
    (1 pm) - Salad with chicken breast
    (3 pm) Quest Bar
    (5 pm) Chicken sausage
    (7 pm) Chicken breast with Broccoli and black beans
    ( 15 minutes before bed) Casein Protein

    I have also been taking an Optimen multi vitamin,

    In my opinion, the problem here must be the workout and not the diet. Any tips?
    When you're not gaining weight, it's the diet not the workout. Just eyeballing the above, looks around 2000-2300 at most.
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  9. #9
    Registered User NickyNorka's Avatar
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    You are absolutely right. Looks like I am only taking in about 1790 calories a day. The only problem here is how full I am after eating all of this! Any places you can see where I could fit in about 700 more calories?
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  10. #10
    Registered User mikeykari's Avatar
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    Wow we're basically the same measurements and have the same weight goal in mind! Goodluck with your goal man. I've found that eating around 3 big meals (breakfast, lunch, and dinner) with 3 small meals in between helps a lot. And also taking cytogainer pre and post workout helps a lot.

    Right now I'm just bulking but still lifting heavy with less reps.
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  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by NickyNorka View Post
    You are absolutely right. Looks like I am only taking in about 1790 calories a day. The only problem here is how full I am after eating all of this! Any places you can see where I could fit in about 700 more calories?
    Egg whites are a waste of time ... should be eating the whole egg. 4 strips of bacon > 2 strips of bacon. Vary the diet more -- chicken, chicken, chicken is dull, dull, dull. Not enough dietary fat in that menu. Make friends w/ peanut butter. Eat a cheeseburger. Have some pizza. Visit the Nutrition forum.

    Most of all, visit the Nutrition forum.
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by NickyNorka View Post
    Ok, it has been over a month now and I have not gained a pound.
    The other thing to consider, is that scale weight is a sketchy judge as you're trying to lose fat/gain muscle simultaneously. Your composition may be changing, whilst not budging the scale much. Is your body fat/definition changing at all -- what's the mirror telling you?
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  13. #13
    Registered User JSNeves's Avatar
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    If your nit gaining weight your not eating enough... but it seems you figured that out


    On the other hand with your stats I wouldn't be trying to gain weight but lose weight.

    Your workout also blows, which is not helping matters. If you had a decent workout you would have seen some noticable results in your first month of training, even without a change in bw.
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  14. #14
    Registered User JSNeves's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mikeykari View Post
    Wow we're basically the same measurements and have the same weight goal in mind! Goodluck with your goal man. I've found that eating around 3 big meals (breakfast, lunch, and dinner) with 3 small meals in between helps a lot. And also taking cytogainer pre and post workout helps a lot.

    Right now I'm just bulking but still lifting heavy with less reps.
    Wanted to second this notion, if your having trouble consuming enough try 3 big meals and a carb/protien shake before/after training
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  15. #15
    Registered User NickyNorka's Avatar
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    Ok, I am going to switch my workout from Occams protocal to the basic Allpro work out in the stickies.

    Any tips on finding my starting weights?
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  16. #16
    Registered User NickyNorka's Avatar
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    Ok so I tried the allpro sticky workout as follows:


    Squats
    Bench Presses
    Bent-Over Rows
    Overhead Barbell Presses
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts
    Barbell Curls
    Calf Raises

    4 sets of 8 reps on everything.... and it was too much. Do you think I would still see benefits if I split this workout in half?

    Also, he mentions to do abs and cardio on the off days, can anyone recommend a good ab workout?
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  17. #17
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    Two of the 4 sets are warmup sets. Do the program EXACTLY as its layed out and eat according to your goals and you WILL succeed. If you arent making progress, you are doing something wrong. Dont veer off and do your own thing. These programs are written by trained professionals with more years of experience than ive been alive. They are proven and do work if done correctly. Good luck with your 2013 goals!
    I rep back :) (measly reps)

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  18. #18
    Registered User chrissypoo13's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Joe2DovesGiotto View Post
    Egg whites are a waste of time ... should be eating the whole egg. 4 strips of bacon > 2 strips of bacon. Vary the diet more -- chicken, chicken, chicken is dull, dull, dull. Not enough dietary fat in that menu. Make friends w/ peanut butter. Eat a cheeseburger. Have some pizza. Visit the Nutrition forum.

    Most of all, visit the Nutrition forum.
    I agree with this to a certain extent! I guess im just one to like to eat a lot of healthy foods and maybe one cheat meal a day. The healthy foods for some reason make me feel more energized! But I guess if it takes a beginner two cheeseburgers and 4 slices of pizza a day to hit their calorie intake, then so be it!
    I rep back :) (measly reps)

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  19. #19
    Registered User NickyNorka's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by chrissypoo13 View Post
    Two of the 4 sets are warmup sets. Do the program EXACTLY as its layed out and eat according to your goals and you WILL succeed. If you arent making progress, you are doing something wrong. Dont veer off and do your own thing. These programs are written by trained professionals with more years of experience than ive been alive. They are proven and do work if done correctly. Good luck with your 2013 goals!
    So you dont think the workout needs to be split up into a upper and lower body day? I just think that 28 sets is a hell of a long time in the gym
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  20. #20
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    Originally Posted by NickyNorka View Post
    So you dont think the workout needs to be split up into a upper and lower body day? I just think that 28 sets is a hell of a long time in the gym
    No not at all. 14 of the 28 sets are warmup sets. At like 25% and 50% of your working weight if I remember right. Ive personally never done all pros but people who have done it that I know of arent even in the gym an hour. Read every detail of the workout before you do it.
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  21. #21
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    Originally Posted by NickyNorka View Post
    Ok so I tried the allpro sticky workout as follows:


    Squats
    Bench Presses
    Bent-Over Rows
    Overhead Barbell Presses
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts
    Barbell Curls
    Calf Raises

    4 sets of 8 reps on everything....
    Do a lite warm up with 1/4 of your work sets weight. Do a medium warm up with 1/2 of your work sets weight. Do 2 work sets with the same weight.

    You dun goofed...^
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  22. #22
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    Originally Posted by NickyNorka View Post
    So you dont think the workout needs to be split up into a upper and lower body day? I just think that 28 sets is a hell of a long time in the gym
    The warmups are only necessary for the first 3 exercises. Beyond that, you can just do the two work sets.
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    I can do AP on heavy days in about 45 mins and about 40 on med/light days.

    Splits are for more experienced lifters, you need to train your CNS as well as your muscles. Try AP for 3 cycles and follow it to a T and you will see results.
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    Originally Posted by NickyNorka View Post
    You are absolutely right. Looks like I am only taking in about 1790 calories a day. The only problem here is how full I am after eating all of this! Any places you can see where I could fit in about 700 more calories?
    I had a similar problem when I first started counting my macros, reaching my numbers on protein and fat but being way short on calories. Here are a few things I tried to get those extra calories. You could add a few slices of cheese to all that chicken you're eating. Cook up a large batch of brown rice or whole wheat pasta at the beginning of the week and you'll have it for sides for your meals. A quick PB&J sandwich is a good option. Also consider drinking calories too. A glass of milk can give you extra calories too.

    Good luck!
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    Registered User NickyNorka's Avatar
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    I am trying to follow the allpro workout to the T... the thing is I am ****ing dead half way through, and I literally only had like 20lbs on the bar. I know most of you are laughing right now, but I am just getting started. Is it more important to do all of the exercises in one day? Should I just do the exercises with the bar itself until I can do more weight? The bar at my gym is heavier than any I have seen before.
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    It looks like you are barely eating. Try Starting Strength, up calories, and get big.
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    Find a reasonable weight no matter how low it is that allows you to complete the exercises. Your body is most likely getting used to the new muscle groups being exposed in different ways. It'll take maybe a month before your weight starts increasing rapidly since you're a beginner like me. Just get your form down first before letting the weight distract you.
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    Originally Posted by NickyNorka View Post
    I am trying to follow the allpro workout to the T... the thing is I am ****ing dead half way through, and I literally only had like 20lbs on the bar. I know most of you are laughing right now, but I am just getting started. Is it more important to do all of the exercises in one day? Should I just do the exercises with the bar itself until I can do more weight? The bar at my gym is heavier than any I have seen before.
    Who cares what anyone else thinks about YOUR starting weights? We all have to start somewhere, the best route is to think long term, get diet in check and weigh or portion everything for 3 months so you can then gauge how much you are actually getting macros wise.

    As to being gassed on AP your endurance is crap and thats what is lagging. When things get tough think long term not short term. Get your macros in check, get 8 hours of sleep and if the weight is too heavy start with just the bar. Make sure you have your form in check as when the weights get heavy you will have get an injury. Stretch and foam roll alot. When DOMS kick in keep lifting, it is actually the only thing that helps especially with the med/light days.

    How did you figure out form on squats, bench row etc..?
    This forum is great! Wish I found it years ago.....
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    Originally Posted by NickyNorka View Post
    You are absolutely right. Looks like I am only taking in about 1790 calories a day. The only problem here is how full I am after eating all of this! Any places you can see where I could fit in about 700 more calories?
    700 calories is easy, drink a quart of milk... pleanty of nutritional calories right there and protein/fat/carb rich to boot, quite easy to get down since it's liquid.
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    Originally Posted by NickyNorka View Post
    I am trying to follow the allpro workout to the T... the thing is I am ****ing dead half way through, and I literally only had like 20lbs on the bar. I know most of you are laughing right now, but I am just getting started. Is it more important to do all of the exercises in one day? Should I just do the exercises with the bar itself until I can do more weight? The bar at my gym is heavier than any I have seen before.
    You'll adapt. We assume you've made the calorie correction, but you've been kinda weak for awhile - changes won't happen overnight. Just keep pushing, you'll adapt sooner than ya think. Most importantly, don't split up the exercise list. If it really becomes necessary, you can skip warmups on the later sets (suggested by the program author). If it satisfies your curiousity, weigh the bar on a scale -- should be 45lbs.
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