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  1. #1
    Registered User Mysterion27's Avatar
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    Looking for advice from the nice guys that use the site :)

    Hi guys, I have been training and eating good consistently for the past 3 months (well i did have the odd burger, chocolate bar if iam honest ha) but my diet has generally been 10 times better then it ever has, I would of had No muscle starting off, total noob here!! Because i would of been "skinny fat" n i reckon my body fat % was around 20-22% , I decided i wanted to try and lose some fat more so then bulk, I eat anywhere between 2000 - 2500 cals a day and i train monday , wednesday and friday and do hit training the other two days!

    Here is my problem, Although my main goal was to reduce my body fat and i feel i have done that, Its been slight, theyre isnt a huge difference and also hardly any muscle growth at all?? I know i need to eat a ton to grow but being a noob i though i would see some decent gains regardless??

    Iam wondering also should i change my routine so workout each muscle group twice a week as at the mo i only do once a week?

    I have seen various 'transformation' pics here where guys are getting great results after as little as 2 - 4 months and its getting me down because i feel nothing has changed for me, i still have a flabby belly but iam just a little skinnier!! My arms do seem to have a little more shape to them then before but thats it!!

    Pls help guys Iam also worried if i do a bulk and eat loads but my training isnt right that ill just put on weight and no muscle!! Dont get me wrong by the way, theyre is a differnce in before and after, but its not noticeable and iam not happy and feel i can and should be getting better results!!
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  2. #2
    Registered User Mysterion27's Avatar
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  3. #3
    I dont even lift bro phoenixr2's Avatar
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    So you are hoping to put on massive amounts of noticeable muscle, while dropping BF at the same time? Yeah not going to happen. Do you have any current pics to see where you are at?
    Sounds like you arent too strict with your calorie counting so most likely you have been eating near maintenance the entire time. Put on a little muscle while slightly reducing a little bit of body fat.

    Any serious change or transformation takes some serious time. Building muscle is not fast or easy. Remember that and do not get discouraged.

    I would suggest you figure out and focus more on a single goal at the moment. Either get to calorie counting strictly and drop the extra body fat. OR continue where you are at with nutrition and put more effort into lifting if you are focused on building LBM.
    “As you think, so shall you become.”

    Complaining about mod negs? Pepper your CP.
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  4. #4
    Registered User dmacdonal9's Avatar
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    Some of the impressive short term transformation stories you see are guys with a solid base of muscle under a layer of fat and water. They diet it off and drop the bloat and suddenly they look monstrous. Good for them, but if you're starting from scratch it's going to take consistency and dedication over the long haul.
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  5. #5
    monolithic ye AllApologies's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dmacdonal9 View Post
    Some of the impressive short term transformation stories you see are guys with a solid base of muscle under a layer of fat and water. They diet it off and drop the bloat and suddenly they look monstrous. Good for them, but if you're starting from scratch it's going to take consistency and dedication over the long haul.
    You're correct, nothing great happens in 2 to 4 months. If you want to gain muscle, eat at a slight surplus of 300 - 500 calories a day. Although eating at maintenance may give you some noob gains, the real gains happen with 6 - 8 months of a spot diet and lifting. With the correct diet, you'll achieve the results from the work you put in. Half way lift, half way diet, half way results.
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  6. #6
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    Originally Posted by Mysterion27 View Post
    Hi guys, I have been training and eating good consistently for the past 3 months (well i did have the odd burger, chocolate bar if iam honest ha) but my diet has generally been 10 times better then it ever has, I would of had No muscle starting off, total noob here!! Because i would of been "skinny fat" n i reckon my body fat % was around 20-22% , I decided i wanted to try and lose some fat more so then bulk, I eat anywhere between 2000 - 2500 cals a day and i train monday , wednesday and friday and do hit training the other two days!

    Here is my problem, Although my main goal was to reduce my body fat and i feel i have done that, Its been slight, theyre isnt a huge difference and also hardly any muscle growth at all?? I know i need to eat a ton to grow but being a noob i though i would see some decent gains regardless??

    Iam wondering also should i change my routine so workout each muscle group twice a week as at the mo i only do once a week?

    I have seen various 'transformation' pics here where guys are getting great results after as little as 2 - 4 months and its getting me down because i feel nothing has changed for me, i still have a flabby belly but iam just a little skinnier!! My arms do seem to have a little more shape to them then before but thats it!!

    Pls help guys Iam also worried if i do a bulk and eat loads but my training isnt right that ill just put on weight and no muscle!! Dont get me wrong by the way, theyre is a differnce in before and after, but its not noticeable and
    iam not happy and feel i can and should be getting better results!!
    Your question is so vague? Do you read the stickies?

    A) Definitely train twice a week, not once. push/pull/leg/push/pull/leg/rest. 6 days a week. don't worry the workouts are only 30-45minutes
    B) The guys that get the amazing transformations in 2-4months already have muscle to begin with. The only problem is that they have some fat on them. Fat is extremely easy to lose. Its muscle thats hard to pack on. once you get the muscle its easy to get shredded in 2 months

    C) Lulz yes, if your training isn't right and you bulk, then yes you will get fat.

    Train properly twice a week each muscle group. check my log out in my signature to see my routine
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  7. #7
    Registered User Mysterion27's Avatar
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    Thanks guys, Well although i havent built much if any muscle at all, I do feel i am a little more toned then before, still have a little bit of stubborn fat i would like to shed but i do not want to get any skinnier so i think i will go ahead and change my routine to twice a week, and up my calorie intake to a surplus of anywhere between 200-500 a day and see how things go, Iam ok with putting on a little fat as long as i get some nice muscle gains to

    Its when i look at some guys on here and its evident the hard work they put in to achieve theyre body, and knowing if you can do it then why cant i :P thats what keeps me motivated

    Thanks again guys
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  8. #8
    Registered User Mysterion27's Avatar
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    Heres two pictures i just found, Ironically i look more muscular 3 months ago, Although at the time i couldnt see any muscle, in fact i thought i had gained a little muscle since but the pics tell a different story

    I know lighting etc can possibly affect a pic but i look pathetic now, 3 months ago i looked somewhat decent (if the pics are to be trusted that is)
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  9. #9
    Registered User dmacdonal9's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mysterion27 View Post
    Heres two pictures i just found, Ironically i look more muscular 3 months ago, Although at the time i couldnt see any muscle, in fact i thought i had gained a little muscle since but the pics tell a different story

    I know lighting etc can possibly affect a pic but i look pathetic now, 3 months ago i looked somewhat decent (if the pics are to be trusted that is)
    Looks like you gained a little fat and/or water. What was your routine over those 3 months?
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  10. #10
    Registered User Mysterion27's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dmacdonal9 View Post
    Looks like you gained a little fat and/or water. What was your routine over those 3 months?
    Interesting you say that because i think iam actually skinnier now then i was 3 months ago, I actually had started a bulk and soon changed my mind and decided it was best if i curt first because i really wanted to lose some excess fat, I upped my cardio from once a week to twice (hit training... box jumps, squat thrusts, burpees etc)

    I cut out the weight gainer shakes that i was having although i was only having half a serving a day and i trained as normal and somehow 3 months later i look worse?? Iam so confused, If i look in the mirror i feel i have lost weight which to be fair was my goal, but i didnt expect to look at before and after pictures and look better before?? I was also taking creatine but have cut that out recently, no particular reason, i just thought it would be best to take it when iam eating at a surplus!!

    What are your thoughts?

    I only train each muscle group once week by the way and iam currently thinking about changing my routine to an upper/lower body split twice a week!!
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  11. #11
    Registered User dmacdonal9's Avatar
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    I think your routine needs to be tailored to your level of experience. A new lifter will do better if he trains specifically for strength at first, and the most efficient way to do that is a full body routine, compound lifts, 3 days per week. Splits are not ideal for strength training.

    In your position, I'd do 3 months of Starting Strength, eat at a small surplus and reevaluate.

    Starting Strength. Why this program? Read this.

    Getting stronger will enable you to lift heavy enough to apply enough stimulus to cause real growth. Weak lifts using isolation movements won't do a heck of a lot for you.
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  12. #12
    Registered User Mysterion27's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dmacdonal9 View Post
    I think your routine needs to be tailored to your level of experience. A new lifter will do better if he trains specifically for strength at first, and the most efficient way to do that is a full body routine, compound lifts, 3 days per week. Splits are not ideal for strength training.

    In your position, I'd do 3 months of Starting Strength, eat at a small surplus and reevaluate.

    Getting stronger will enable you to lift heavy enough to apply enough stimulus to cause real growth. Weak lifts using isolation movements won't do a heck of a lot for you.
    I agree somewhat, I was thing twice a week is a good medium, I feel 3 times a week would be a little too much, The trouble is i train with a guy who is already big and has years of experience in training (not necessarily body building, but he has lifted weights for a few years and after completing an ironman competition last year he decided he wanted to focus on strenght and getting bigger, he is pretty big for a guy that was a twig in his early 20's)

    It is him that recommended i do train once a week, i do chest and triceps on monday, Back shoulders and biceps on wednesday and legs friday, The two days in between i do hit!! I have asked him about changing my routine and his advice was too stick at things until christmas and in the new year maybe change things then? I feel he believes once a week is the way to better gains simple because maybe thats whats working for him!!

    Have you any idea or reason why i seem to look before in the before picture? Ironically i thought i looked more "toned" now then before and the mirror seemed to agree but when i looked at the pics, iam seeing a different story!!

    Thanks for your guidance by the way , appreciate it
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  13. #13
    Registered User dmacdonal9's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mysterion27 View Post
    I feel he believes once a week is the way to better gains simple because maybe thats whats working for him!!
    Yeah, I think a lot of people make that mistake. It sounds like the sort of routine that would work very well for an advanced powerlifter. He's probably very strong and can apply a ton of stress to an individual muscle group, which requires a lot of time to recover. Beginners are not strong enough to apply that kind of stimulus, so that's what they need to work on first.

    Originally Posted by Mysterion27 View Post
    Have you any idea or reason why i seem to look before in the before picture? Ironically i thought i looked more "toned" now then before and the mirror seemed to agree but when i looked at the pics, iam seeing a different story!!
    I dunno about the pics, but if I had to guess, I think you were spinning your wheels for three months due to your training and nutrition being off, and the differences in the pics are attributable to minor changes in retained water and fat.
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    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to dmacdonal9 again

    Great posts

    I myself did this exact mistake. I was getting complements and I felt I looked better in the mirror. The fact is that since I didn't control my diet, nothing happened. So yeah, you gotta keep count and make sure that you are not spinning your wheels, i.e weigh yourself, take regular pictures etc.
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  15. #15
    Registered User Mysterion27's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Horizon92 View Post
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to dmacdonal9 again

    Great posts

    I myself did this exact mistake. I was getting complements and I felt I looked better in the mirror. The fact is that since I didn't control my diet, nothing happened. So yeah, you gotta keep count and make sure that you are not spinning your wheels, i.e weigh yourself, take regular pictures etc.
    My diet is pretty good with regards to what i eat but admitedly i was just counting things "roughly" Id be lying if i said i could tell you the exact amount of cals i was consuming, protein , carbs etc Although i do believe i was certainly getting enough protein, maybe a litttle under on the calories although if so surely id of lost more weight not look fatter? Carbs i could probably do with upping, Its very hard to get everything spot on when your a beginner starting out, alot of info can be hard to understand to!!

    If i was retaining water which id imagine would be from the creatine, does that mean that stopping it will actually get rid of the water weight n thus look better?? I mean isnt creatine consumption supposed to make you look bigger and stronger not fatter? ha

    Thanks again guys, Sound as a pound .... irish expression for thanks very much incase you guys didnt know :P
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  16. #16
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    Stopping creatine won't make you look thinner, no. Obviously if you would try to look as skinny as you could in like 2 days, you would stop creatine, only drink coffee and sit in a sauna for a couple of hours - You'd look skinnier. But that wouldn't help your fat loss, and its no point in trying to shed water weight to look better on a day to day basis.

    The ballparking of calories, I think, has screwed many a dieter over. That's why I suggest getting total control right now so that you know what's up. For a lot of people, just working out and eating healthy works great. For big eaters like me, that doesn't work at all. And I reckon it goes for not so big eaters as well. You need to have control over your intake when what you're doing now isn't working. Just try to hit about 1-1.5g protein pr lb lean body mass, 60-80g fat and the rest with carbs, whilst staying at a caloric deficit. Personally I find it easy to just eat chicken and rice for a "set meal" that I consume every day, then I can view how many calories I have left eating, and what those calories should consist of (carbs, protein, fats). Exciting? No. Effective? Yes. When you have it all in front of you, making food choices is so much easier. For instance, if you've consumed 1000kcal, and you have reached your protein and fat intake for the day, and you now have 600kcals left in carbs to eat, and its 8pm - You can get away with something that's not so good for you. If you're not counting you can't allow yourself candy etc, because you have no idea if you are ruining your deficit or if you are in the clear.
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