Are vertical pulls that important for lat development which would hopefully = Bigger bench and deadlift?
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12-01-2012, 01:23 PM #421
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12-01-2012, 01:24 PM #422
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12-01-2012, 01:26 PM #423
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12-01-2012, 01:30 PM #424
Thanks but what kinda 5x5? How about stronglifts? It looks similar to Madcow's.
And what by Accessory 3-4 times a week, do you mean for example, do one bicep exercise once a week, one tricep, one additional back (pull-ups maybe), and then one calf exercise for a total of 4? What about an additional shoulder isolation exercise?
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12-01-2012, 01:30 PM #425
I dont care about being different lol
Lets look at it like this: My triceps and shoulders are stronger than my chest so I have to really get a pump to feel the muscle being targeted, which is why I start with Db incline flies. I could start with anything that gives me a pump I could care less but thats the exercise I choose. I'll switch to decline BB or db.
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12-01-2012, 01:35 PM #426
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12-01-2012, 01:39 PM #427
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12-01-2012, 02:53 PM #428
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12-01-2012, 03:45 PM #429
How is this? The days are set since it was made around my work (and other activities) schedule. I switch up some of the exercises every 3-4 weeks.
I guess its been working so far for me*, but i havent been on it for 3 weeks already since i hurt my wrist, and got another 3 more weeks til im good to go. Just been doing squats, pullups, machine shoulder press, and dips for now while it heals. Everything else hurts. Will go back on it when my wrist is fully healed as well as start bulking again.
What do i need to change?
*From July to November bench went from 165 max to 205 max, squat 245 to (calculated 275 x 6) 319Last edited by danielaq12; 12-01-2012 at 03:54 PM.
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12-01-2012, 04:46 PM #430
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12-01-2012, 04:48 PM #431
Hey, Derek
Amazing job you are doing here, which even forced me to register here instead of continue being a passive reader; I want to hear some critique from you while you still have this passion for answering
I am 21 years old. Height 1.88m (6'2) and weight 90kg (200lbs). However, I used to be quite skinny and 14 months ago I weighted 165lbs, so I am very happy with the results so far in terms of mass. Strength I believe is not as great though, current lifts(haven't even ever tried my maximum, so it's working weights):
Bench Press 5 x 180lbs
Deadlift 5 x 265lbs
Squat 5 x 265lbs
However, I had a serious knee injury and it hurts doing squats a bit, so I try not to go over my limits here, but go all in with 45 degree Leg Press 5 x 660lbs.
Don't know the actual increase in weights though, because I didn't have a log back then, but it's continuously increasing for sure. However, nothing really extraordinary, but rather a steady increase.
I have around 3 year of gym experience, but 2 of those were pretty much wasted when I was a teenager, started actively lifting only a bit more than a year ago, but had a completely passive summer due to work and travels. So, this September started with full body workout at first and then switched to this 3 day split after a while, which I want you to comment on:
Chest/Biceps
Bench BB press 5x5
Incline bench DB press 3x8
DB flys 3x8
DB curls 3x10 (one time hammer, one time twisting)
BB Preacher 3x10
Wrist curl 3x10 (for squash)
Legs/Shoulders
Squats 5x5
DB lunge 3x10
Leg Press 5x5
Hamstring curl 3x8
Calf rise 3x10
Military BB press or Seated DB press 5x5
Upright BB row 3x10
DB front raise 3x10
DB reverse fly 3x10
Back/Triceps
Pull ups 3x8
Deadlift 5x5
BB row 5x5
One arm DB row 3x8
DB shrugs 3x8
Close grip bench press 3x8
One arm DB extension 3x10
Weighted bench dips 3x10
5x5 include 2 warm-up sets with 50-80% of working weight. I am mostly concerned with legs/shoulders day, as it is way harder than the chest day, but if I split Legs and Shoulders, than I could only fit one cycle per week. Now it's pretty much 5 days per week with 2 on 1 off. My triceps is somehow sensitive and I find it difficult to do it after chest, that's why legs/shoulders are in between. Also, this way with my 2 on 1 off routine, the hardest legs/shoulders day always has a day off either before the workout or after it.
Appreciate any comments and please shred it into pieces if you think it is all terrible.
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12-01-2012, 07:32 PM #432
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12-02-2012, 03:27 AM #433
Hi Derek,
I am 17 years old and around 64kg bf is around 11-16.
I have been working out for 3 years+ now and last 6 months I tighten my eating schedule etc...
I just finished my previous workout training and want to start with an other
4day working out.
Monday
Squat
Stiff Legged Deadlift
Leg Press
Leg Extension
Pendlay Row
Dumbell Row
Planking
Tuesday
Bench Press
Push Press
Close grip
Incline bench
Flyes
Thursday
Deadlift
Stiff Legged Deadlift
Chin ups
Dumbell Row
Back Extention
Facepull/dumbell rear delt raises
Friday
Bench Press
Push Press
Close grip
Incline bench
Flyes
Crucifix flyes
Hammer Curls
its a 5x5 schedule. Hammer curls are 12x3
Appreciate every comments!
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12-02-2012, 08:36 AM #434
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12-02-2012, 09:07 AM #435
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12-02-2012, 09:08 AM #436
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12-02-2012, 09:57 AM #437
Saturday - Push
Benchpress - 4x8
Cable Flyes - 3x10
Incline Chest Press - 3x10
Incline Should Press Machine - 3x8
Cable Lateral Raises - 3x15
Cable Rear Delts - 3x12
Tricep Pushdown - 3x10
Double Armed Seated French Curl - 3x10
Cardio
Sunday - Pull
Wide Grip Lat Pulldown - 4x10
T-Bar Row - 3x10
Seated Row - 3x12
Preacher Curls - 3x10
Dumbell Hammer Curls - 3x12
Dumbell Shrugs - 5x10
Calf Extension - 4x25
Horizontal Calf - 3x25
Cardio
Monday - Legs
Leg Press - 4x10
Stiff Leg Deadlifts - 4x6-8
Squats with 5 second hold at bottom - 3x5
Hack Squats - 3x10
Leg Extension - Dropset
Leg Curls - Dropset
Abs
Tuedsay - Push
Incline Barbell Press - 4x10
Pec Deck - 3x12
Dumbell Press - 3x10
Dumbell Shoulder Press - 3x8
Seated Dumbell Lateral Raise - 3x15
Rear Delt Machine - 3x12
Tricep Double-Rope Pushdown - 3x10
Close Grip Bench Press (Smith Machine) - 3x10
Abs
Wednesday - Pull
Close Grip Lat Pulldown - 4x10
Dumbell Row - 3x10
Lat Pushdown - 3x10
Seated Bicep Curls - 3x12
Dumbell Preacher Curls - 3x10
Dumbell Shrugs - 3x10
Calf Raises - 3x20
Calf Press - 3x25
Cardio
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12-02-2012, 10:40 AM #438
I am very sorry to hear about your wrist, I hope that heals up soon.If you have added 40 pounds to your bench and 80 pounds to your Squat in about ~4-5 months, I would simply not change anything that is not broken. Honestly, the template does look pretty good the way it is; but this is what I would do:
#1. For Full Body Strength, Finish your pressing before you do the pulling. Bench,Press,Close Grip Bench,Row,Curls,Squat . Alternating the two as supersets would be fine to; example: Bench->Row,CGBP->Curl. Most people would say(and I used to also say) that doing your Squats before Rows would be wise; but this is up to you. Also, I would honestly add some kind of vertical pull or a deadlift on that day; vertical pulls can be dangerous unless done in the 6-8+ rep range, so I might just put in a Deadlift at the end to finish off your body, it's not completely necessary though and if you want you can even make it 3x6-8 romanian/stiff deadlift.
#2. Make sure your EZ Bar Curls are wide on pull day so that you hit all heads of the biceps. Your Pull day looks phenomenal . I LOVE IT!
#3. Legs day looks great. Once again, IMHO I would add a Stiff or Romanian Deadlift here
#4. Push day has waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much pressing. I'm confused, you wrote Close Grip Bench(Tricep Extension). Which is it? You need to drop some of the pressing for sure. I would drop one of the SHOULDER PRESSES ,if not BOTH ...and just do 3 Benching movements(Flat/Incline/CG/Dumbbell; you pick them) with 2 of them being incline. Instead of doing the two shoulder presses, do Wide Dumbbell Upright Rows,Side Laterals,and Rear Laterals. This will blow up your shoulder girdle and not overtrain your Front Deltoids.
All in all, everything looks great ; your pressing day is just way too much pressing. Nice template
#2.
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12-02-2012, 10:41 AM #439
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12-02-2012, 10:48 AM #440
You should never be training Chest/Biceps, nor Back/Triceps on back to back days. Same goes with Shoulders and Chest;but you said that you don't do this. I don't like the template at all. There's nothing wrong with doing a Push and Pull in 1 workout, it's rather your setup since you overlap muscles the way you have it done. I don't think you should be doing this routine; instead a standard 3on/1off would be much better and if you wanted to, you could still pretty much set it up to be the same thing: Chest/Bicep/Tricep , Legs, Delts/Back or something like that; there's so many options...
In terms of exercise selection, I would add 1 more bicep exercise: some kind of standing barbell curl or hammer curl IMO. Legs day, don't do Lunges after Squats. Do Leg Press first. If you can do Stiff/Romanian Deadlifts; add those in the program. Shoulders have way too much front deltoid work; you need to focus on side delts more than anything. Do 1 press+upright row+side lateral+rear lateral; you can even finish off with facepulls if you like for shoulder health and tying in both the side+rear in 1 movement. Back day, I don't see the point of doing 5x5 on rows when you already did Deadlifts. You can if you want, totally fine to do; but I would just pick the DL as the strength movement then up the BB Row rep range to 6-10. Rest looks good though. As for triceps, too many movements that are the same. Do 1 CGBP/DIP , 1 Pushdown(prefer rope), 1 Overhead Extension if you like. My favorite Tricep movements are Close Grip Incline Bench(Flat is fine), followed by Lying Tricep Extensions, followed by Rope Pushdowns focusing on pulling it apart. This just has proven to transfer the best to me on benching/pressing; do what you want though.
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12-02-2012, 10:50 AM #441
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12-02-2012, 10:52 AM #442
Since you are asking for my own personal opinion; I would either do one of the following:
Lower,Upper,Rest,Lower,Upper,Rest,Lower,Upper,Rest
or
Lower,Upper,Lower,Upper,Lower,Upper,Rest
or
Chest/Back/Deltoids (Upper),off,Legs/Arms(Lower+Arms),off,Chest/Back/Deltoids (Upper),off,Legs/Arms(Lower+Arms)
It depends on your training experience, how long you have lifted, your recovery, your current lifts... so many factors. I don't like going 2 days in a row, I never recover well, so I just do Full Body every other day; that's what works for ME . I think the third one (which is basically what the DC Training template if you are familiar with DC) would work very well for most people.
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12-02-2012, 10:59 AM #443
I never did it how it was supposed to be done,so I can not answer you. I was dumb and only used the 3-5 rep range on all the exercises, making it completely strength oriented. Strength exploded, got up to a 290x8/275x11 bench; it definetly works for strength. If I had actually done it with a hypertrophy emphasis and keeping all reps more around 5+ instead of 3 ( I was literally just doing triples on basically everything,and working it up to five), then I could give you a better answer. If you want me to be honest - his 5x5 program is really strength oriented; but you will still see good size gains as long as you stay more around the ~5 rep range instead of going lower. Also make sure the arm work/deltoid work is really 5x8-5x10 ; don't leave out the lateral raises.
If you were cutting, I probably would lower the volume,but go balls to the wall on intensity . Pick only about 5-7 exercises; and just go all out 3 days a week on them forcing progression and weight to the bar.
When Reg wanted to train more for size, he did one of the following:
Bumped EVERYTHING from 5x5 to 5x10 ; or combined some 5x5 movements with 5x10 movements.
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12-02-2012, 11:00 AM #444
Since you took absolutely no time to list your training experience,training goals,current lifts,or anything necessary, I am not going to take the time to just look at some random template and say what I think. I will say though,that it is very sloppy and poorly planned. I don't like it whatsoever and it's silly that you decided to do Upper Body twice and Legs once.
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12-02-2012, 12:23 PM #445
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12-02-2012, 01:29 PM #446
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12-02-2012, 01:32 PM #447
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12-02-2012, 02:47 PM #448
Interested to see what's thought of this routine of mine. Keep in mind I have a problem; due to injuries, inflexibilities, tightness etc, I can't barbell bench, overhead press, back squat, deadlift or do pull/chin ups (and a few other things) without pain. Regardless of how good my form is, what my grip is like, how I set my shoulder blades, what back angle I use, etc, etc, I always end up with either low back or shoulder pain. It's not up for discussion, at the moment, for me to do any of those. Working on fixing them, but for the time being those are the constraints I'm working around. So, with all that in mind:
I have no choice lol
A
Hand stand push ups 3x15: replaces overhead press. Doing progressions for it at the moment, feels awesome. High reps to build the strength and endurance for the real deal to carry over well.
DB rows 3x8: replaces barbell rows which hurt the schit out of my back. Getting the hang of it (pretty sure you posted in my question about em in the exercise section the other day)
Front squat shrugs 3x10: trains lower traps, needed since my upper traps are too tight and lowers too weak, contributes to bad shoulders
Curls 3x10: weak arms from SS brain-washing, no reason not to
Front squat 3x7: replaces back squat due to shoulder pain
Rear delt laterals 3x10: addressing dat imbalance
Reverse crunches 3x15: addressing dat imbalance
B
DB bench 3x10: doesn't cause problems so far, allows to train chest
Inverted rows 3x10: extra back work
Back extensions 3x10: for lower back, pretty sure it's weak since it hurts on deads
DB farmer walks 3x5 paces: "paces" being walking up and down the length of space I've set out. To help even out the traps, recommended by a lot of coaches for sorting out imbalances. DBs since I own Oly ones and can load the up a fair bit, own no farmer's walk handles
RDLS 3x7: dat hamstring work
Lateral raises 3x8: dat delt work
Plank slide 3x10: basically getting into a plank, feet on furniture slider, push body backwards keeping arms in place. Awesome for core work, needed.
I'm thinking do an A/off/B/off/A, repeat next week routine, and I've got a rowing machine so I'm gonna be doing that every other day too. That's the plan anyways. Thoughts?
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12-02-2012, 06:59 PM #449
Looking at the options of what you are able to do, I would honestly just do Full Body/off/Full Body/off/Full Body/off/Full Body/off since you can't really do any of the taxing movements and have way more than enough time to recover from the few movements you are capable of right now. Sorry to hear about that though.
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12-02-2012, 07:07 PM #450
Is this a good routine to build lean muscle?
Sunday: Upper Power
5×5 or 3×5 for all lifts(5×5 on bulk cause recovery is better, 3×5 on cut)
Barbell Bench Press
Barbell Rows
Military Press
Barbell Shrugs
Monday: Lower Power
5×5 or 3×5 for all lifts(5×5 on bulk cause recovery is better, 3×5 on cut)
Back Squat
Stiff Leg Deadlift, Or Romanian DL
6-8 sets of Standing Calf, little higher reps, I like to do 6-8 on heavy days
Tues: Off (cardio)
Wednesday: Chest/Arms
DB Incline Bech 3×8-12
Barbell Close Grip Bench 3×8-12
DB Flat Bench 2×8-12
Preacher Curls 3×8-12 super setted with
Standing French Press 3×8-12
Push Downs 3×8-12 super setted with
DB Hammer Curls
Cable Crossovers 3×8-12
Machine Curl 3×8-12 supersetted with
Machine Dips 3×8-12
Thursday: Hypertrophy Shoulders/Back/Traps
DB Shoulder Press 3×8-12 super setted with
DB Front Raise 3×8-12
DB One Arm Row 3×8-12 super setted with
DB Arnold Press 3×8-12
Lat Pull Down (Wide Grip) 2×8-12 super setted with
DB Shrugs 2×10-15
Lat Pull Down (Close grip, palms facing in) 2×8-12 super setted with
DB Upright Row 2×10-15
T-bar row 2×8-12
Friday: Hypertrophy Legs/Calves
Hack Squat 5×8-12 super setted with
Standing Calf 5×10-15
Leg Extensions 5×10-15 super setted with
Sitting Leg Curls 5×10-15 super setted with
Sitting Calf Raise 4×8-12
Saturday: Off (cardio)
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