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  1. #1
    Registered User bornathepicek's Avatar
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    Vertical leap questions.

    Recently I've started to work on my vertical leap. And there are some questions and problems I wish you guys can help me with.

    I've found a book called "The vertical jump development bible; by Kelly Bagget" (I'm not advertising! ). And I've found alot of good info in there, but!
    But inside it it says you should do your leg workout, and after a leg workout you should do plyos(on the same day), is this good or bad?
    And if its good, should I go into plyos immediately after doing legs with weight, or should i cool off and then do them, or its not good to do plyos on the same day at all.

    Second problem: I have a very limited space in my gym(meaning i cant do power skips or any of those plyos that requires a lot of room to do), are there alternatives to those drills that require alot of room(power skips, sprints etc)? And generally are there plyos that don't require alot of space to do?

    Thanks for reading
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  2. #2
    Registered User jcross24ham's Avatar
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    I do plyrometric a after after leg workouts and my vertical has increased a lot. It destroys ur legs though.
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  3. #3
    Registered User hyperdunk1's Avatar
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    I've been vert jump training for last 7-8 months. the key is to gain strength 1st and then do plyos. find out where you are weak and focus on that. the 3 key parts in vert jump training is the calf, the quads, and the posterior chain (glute, waist, hamstring, lowerback).

    Doing plyos after lifting is actually good. You usually jump a lot better.
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    Originally Posted by bornathepicek View Post
    Second problem: I have a very limited space in my gym(meaning i cant do power skips or any of those plyos that requires a lot of room to do), are there alternatives to those drills that require alot of room(power skips, sprints etc)? And generally are there plyos that don't require alot of space to do?

    Thanks for reading

    Do what? Bro, just do the power skips and the sprints outside. Don't make things harder they have to be. Nobody goes to a gym that has "room" for those exercises, we all do them outside.
    People say all of this crap about genetics this, genetics that. I will never let genetics tell me what I can and cannot do..
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    Registered User jonmd123's Avatar
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    Generally speaking you want to do plyos first, or on a separate day. Don't worry about working your calves or quads, they do very little for your leap. Focus on the posterior chain. Having flexibility in the hips is huge too.
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  6. #6
    16.75" of Clive wannabe natypes's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hyperdunk1 View Post
    I've been vert jump training for last 7-8 months. the key is to gain strength 1st and then do plyos. find out where you are weak and focus on that. the 3 key parts in vert jump training is the calf, the quads, and the posterior chain (glute, waist, hamstring, lowerback).

    Doing plyos after lifting is actually good. You usually jump a lot better.
    I don't think it really matters which you do first in a particular day, but building strength should come first. Not only will it build strength in your muscles, but also your tendons which plyo can be hard on. I played a lot of volleyball in high school and college (not for a team, just club play) and my vertical shot up without any real training. I claim it to be my only real talent lol. Topped out at 38" in college. Too bad it was basically all a waste since I'm a manlet lol.

    At about 5'7 I could grab a basketball rim and hang with one hand. Oh the good ole days.
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  8. #8
    Registered User hyperdunk1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by natypes View Post
    I don't think it really matters which you do first in a particular day, but building strength should come first. Not only will it build strength in your muscles, but also your tendons which plyo can be hard on. I played a lot of volleyball in high school and college (not for a team, just club play) and my vertical shot up without any real training. I claim it to be my only real talent lol. Topped out at 38" in college. Too bad it was basically all a waste since I'm a manlet lol.

    At about 5'7 I could grab a basketball rim and hang with one hand. Oh the good ole days.
    yep thats how u get exposive
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  9. #9
    Registered User bornathepicek's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OneLastChance View Post
    Do what? Bro, just do the power skips and the sprints outside. Don't make things harder they have to be. Nobody goes to a gym that has "room" for those exercises, we all do them outside.
    I don't want to sound like a pussy but its madafakin cool outside, and it rains **** loads these days(slippery as hell).
    Here how my plyos look like:

    Slalom jumps 3x50
    Star jump 3x10
    Power skipping 3x30 meters
    Side to side box jumps 3x8
    1-leg step up jump 3x8
    Low squat ankle jump 3x30

    So its not really like I can't preform all these exercises in the gym(except the power skipping), the problem with going outside is that I don't know where to find those boxes to jump on and off.

    @natypes
    So its okay to do leg workouts monday and friday, and do ploys wednesday?
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  10. #10
    Registered User hyperdunk1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bornathepicek View Post
    I don't want to sound like a pussy but its madafakin cool outside, and it rains **** loads these days(slippery as hell).
    Here how my plyos look like:

    Slalom jumps 3x50
    Star jump 3x10
    Power skipping 3x30 meters
    Side to side box jumps 3x8
    1-leg step up jump 3x8
    Low squat ankle jump 3x30

    So its not really like I can't preform all these exercises in the gym(except the power skipping), the problem with going outside is that I don't know where to find those boxes to jump on and off.

    @natypes
    So its okay to do leg workouts monday and friday, and do ploys wednesday?
    i mean, if you're 6'1 and 160, looks like u are very skinny. plyo's and reactive work will only get u so far. if u get super strong and then do plyo's / reactive, you will def get farther. i'm training to be elite bball player and explosive. the most optimal way is to get super strong 1st then do your plyo's and reactive work
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  11. #11
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    I thought you were supposed to do plyo's before your workouts instead of after your workouts? IF you do them post-workout, your muscles are already spent from all of the lifting and you wouldn't be using your muscles to the max effort as opposed to how well you would be able to use them pre-workout when they're fresh.
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  12. #12
    Registered User bornathepicek's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hyperdunk1 View Post
    i mean, if you're 6'1 and 160, looks like u are very skinny. plyo's and reactive work will only get u so far. if u get super strong and then do plyo's / reactive, you will def get farther. i'm training to be elite bball player and explosive. the most optimal way is to get super strong 1st then do your plyo's and reactive work
    So i should just focus on getting stronger at time being?
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  13. #13
    Registered User hyperdunk1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bornathepicek View Post
    So i should just focus on getting stronger at time being?
    Yeah definitely. Your speed and vertical might even decrease at 1st if you're bulking, but eventually once u pack on the muscles and then cut and start working on power, you'll end up not just smooth or fast, but EXPLOSIVE. All the explosive atheletes look like bodybuilders -- lebron, drose, etc. And if u look at sprinters, they all have sick amts of muscle. Unless you are a lanky type of basketball player like kevin durant who doesn't need to bulk and uses their reactive strength. But i doubt it b/c you're not a 6'10 guard/f.
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  14. #14
    Registered User PhysiqueKing's Avatar
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    I've used almost every routine in th VJB since 2006 and I've had a ton of success with it.(The VJB is what finally got me to my 40 inch vertical leap goal.) But with that said when I first started doing the workouts that had the plyos after lifting it definitely felt weird and wasn't something I really ever got used to. However, my vertical kept getting better and better so I trusted the workouts and follow the program to a T and like I said I eventually hit my goal and then some.
    Good luck bro.
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    These guys are all right you must develope your strength base first, one for injury prevention and two for mx results. Usually you start off with basic strength movements, then start adding power movements (power cleans etc...) then add your plyo metrics. you can do low impact plyo metrics until you reach a good level of strength to start an intense program (squating 1.5-2 times your body weight is good indication). Plyometrics should be preformed BEFORE weight training as these are all out effort. The whole point of plyos are to be as explosive as possible to train your fast twitch muscle fibers. Doing them after a hard lifting session will burn your legs out and you will not be as exploive. While doing them first will not hurt your lifting.
    with space, you can do them anywhere (try to avoid concrete though), a basketball court is perfect or outside on the grass.
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    Registered User bornathepicek's Avatar
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    Guys, thanks a LOT.

    If I understood correctly its squats and dead lifts all the way

    By the way, since ill be doing my legs twice a week, should i separate my leg workouts. Meaning should I focus on squats on monday, and focus on deadlifts on friday?

    @hyperdunk1
    KD has a vertical of 35 inches. THAT is a nice vert lolz
    Last edited by bornathepicek; 11-26-2012 at 01:05 PM.
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  17. #17
    Registered User hyperdunk1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bornathepicek View Post
    Guys, thanks a LOT.

    If I understood correctly its squats and dead lifts all the way

    By the way, since ill be doing my legs twice a week, should i separate my leg workouts. Meaning should I focus on squats on monday, and focus on deadlifts on friday?

    @hyperdunk1
    KD has a vertical of 35 inches. THAT is a nice vert lolz
    I would focus much more on squats than deadlifts. Deadlifts don't really help vertical as much as squats at a certain point. also incorporate some kind of GHR like leg curls. hamstrings help strengthen the knee, which will help a long way. Get a calf raise routine and also a posterior chain routine (good mornings, or 45 deg hyper, and much more)
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    Registered User PhysiqueKing's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hyperdunk1 View Post
    I would focus much more on squats than deadlifts. Deadlifts don't really help vertical as much as squats at a certain point
    I really disagree with this. I think both lifts are paramount to a big vertical and as blasphemous as this sounds I'd almost say deads might be even more important. I've tried everything under the sun the last 13 years trying to improve my vertical and can't stress the correlation I've seen with big verticals and deadlifting. (Not just with myself but a few peers as well.) In my experience the thing that always separated the good jumpers(30-39 inches) from the great jumpers(40+) is the fact that almost every great jumper I have met has sworn by deadlifting.(Unless of course they're one of the genetic freaks who were born with ridiculous reactive strength and never worked for their jumping ability.)

    Either way I'm not trying to be a dick and disagree with you I'm just hoping to save you guys some of the trouble I went through in all of my years of trial and error. I really think anybody who focuses on their squat AND deadlift as well as some plyos(depth jumps) and flexibility is capable of obtaining at least a 40 inch vertical leap.


    Oh, yeah, another important part that I often see overlooked is people don't jump or practice jumping enough. So easy but so crucial.

    Hope I helped out some and if anybody has any questions feel free to ask.
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    Also, I can't stress enough how key it is to stretch in the morning and before bed. Good luck fam
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  20. #20
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    Originally Posted by PhysiqueKing View Post


    Oh, yeah, another important part that I often see overlooked is people don't jump or practice jumping enough. So easy but so crucial.
    This is all I did when I was playing vball. I had never squated or deadlifted in my life at that point. At age 16-17 it was 27". Started playing volleyball and in a few months it was 35". In a couple of years it maxed out at about 38". I suppose had I lifted and worked more I would have gotten it over 40. Just wasn't motivated then. That was 14+ years ago though.
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  21. #21
    Registered User bornathepicek's Avatar
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    Is it possible to still gain muscle while doing legs twice a week? (i know that this is a bit off topic)
    Coz I've read tons of articles on the web, and seen many videos stating that ectomorphs should train three times a week.

    Example of my routine:

    Monday: Legs (focusing on squats)
    Tuesday: Chest+biceps
    Wednesday: Shoulders+abs
    Thursday: Back+triceps
    Friday: Legs (focusing on deadlifts)
    Saturday/Sunday : off
    (I try to keep my workouts around an hour)

    Since I was thinking of incorporating some pylos when I gain some leg strength, I would be even more working out. Am I over training for a beginner with an ectomorph body?
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    Registered User PhysiqueKing's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bornathepicek View Post
    Is it possible to still gain muscle while doing legs twice a week? (i know that this is a bit off topic)
    Coz I've read tons of articles on the web, and seen many videos stating that ectomorphs should train three times a week.

    Example of my routine:

    Monday: Legs (focusing on squats)
    Tuesday: Chest+biceps
    Wednesday: Shoulders+abs
    Thursday: Back+triceps
    Friday: Legs (focusing on deadlifts)
    Saturday/Sunday : off
    (I try to keep my workouts around an hour)

    Since I was thinking of incorporating some pylos when I gain some leg strength, I would be even more working out. Am I over training for a beginner with an ectomorph body?
    I would do more core work. Also, why are you doing biceps, triceps, etc?
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    Registered User bjwinek's Avatar
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    A couple things that Blake Griffin attributes to his vertical:

    1) Search youtube for 'Blake Griffin cover shoot.' He shares a few exercises there.

    2) I have also heard he has been practicing yoga 3 to 5 days once he started playing in the NBA. Yoga helps out A LOT with core and flexibility.

    A lot of people can get up to 1.5 - 2x bw max squat, but you need to stay flexible while doing so. I saw my biggest improvements when I started doing core/yoga/flexibility exercises.

    Yes, I know Blake's 6'10", but just thought I'd contribute some food for thought.

    Happy jumping!
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    Registered User PhysiqueKing's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bjwinek View Post
    A couple things that Blake Griffin attributes to his vertical:

    1) Search youtube for 'Blake Griffin cover shoot.' He shares a few exercises there.

    2) I have also heard he has been practicing yoga 3 to 5 days once he started playing in the NBA. Yoga helps out A LOT with core and flexibility.

    A lot of people can get up to 1.5 - 2x bw max squat, but you need to stay flexible while doing so. I saw my biggest improvements when I started doing core/yoga/flexibility exercises.

    Yes, I know Blake's 6'10", but just thought I'd contribute some food for thought.

    Happy jumping!
    All of this is great advice but Blake is a pretty bad example. At 35 inches his vertical is pretty **** lol.
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    Registered User bornathepicek's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by PhysiqueKing View Post
    I would do more core work. Also, why are you doing biceps, triceps, etc?
    I really don't understand your question.
    You think I shouldn't be doing biceps and triceps on back/chest day?
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    Registered User bjwinek's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by PhysiqueKing View Post
    All of this is great advice but Blake is a pretty bad example. At 35 inches his vertical is pretty **** lol.
    Haha yeah, I appreciate the kind feedback. I just used him as an example because his name is typically brought up when people discuss dunking and such. He's a pretty big guy (255lb) so aside from his vertical being fairly poor for the NBA, his great athleticism is a testament to these exercises. It should be a lot easier for a guy like myself (6'4, 180) to reach that vert than it is for him.

    Also, your 40" vertical is ridiculous- well done!
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    Registered User PhysiqueKing's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bornathepicek View Post
    I really don't understand your question.
    You think I shouldn't be doing biceps and triceps on back/chest day?
    Well I guess I don't know your goals... Is it to specifically just jump higher? Or are you trying to put on muscle, ook better, etc.
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    Registered User EazyEzrah's Avatar
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    I'm a junior playing Varsity at 5'7 141 and I can jump and grab rim. Not off two feet though, I'm a one legged jumper. If I could guess my vertical would be around 37" but I do not do any real training. My sophomore year I lifted pretty hard and seen few results. Plus during the season my legs were very weak from jump training and I could not even touch the top of the box. My advice would be to perfect your technique by jumping whichever way you prefer over and over.

    Also, stretch hard man.
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    Registered User bornathepicek's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by PhysiqueKing View Post
    Well I guess I don't know your goals... Is it to specifically just jump higher? Or are you trying to put on muscle, ook better, etc.
    My goal is improving my vert along with working out my entire body to look good/be healthy/be stronger.
    Why? It's not possible to do it all?
    Last edited by bornathepicek; 12-07-2012 at 12:37 PM.
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    Originally Posted by EazyEzrah View Post
    I'm a junior playing Varsity at 5'7 141 and I can jump and grab rim. Not off two feet though, I'm a one legged jumper. If I could guess my vertical would be around 37"
    Vertical is measured off of 2 feet, not one. There can be a huge difference between the 2.
    You have to be able to sacrifice who you are for who you want to be.

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