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  1. #61
    Registered User FAN0FdaSport's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Unbiasedfan View Post
    Couldn't disagree more. The only flaw in proportion that you can point in shawns physique is his delts. They were a bit underdevelopded considering the rest of his body, but it was a minor issue.

    On the other hand you can point to ronnies calves and tris.

    The difference is not great but ronnie surely isn't more proportionate than shawn.
    exactly

    anyone whos ever been a contender is proportionate, the comparisons dont rely on that
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  2. #62
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    Originally Posted by DavisForman View Post
    What 'same' argument? There is no 'same' argument involving Ronnie.

    You can't use the "He's smaller but more proportionate and complete than the bigger guy" because it's not true. Ronnie was bigger AND more complete/proportionate than Shawn.

    And you couldn't compare Flex or DH to Phil and Kai for the very same reasons.

    Flex and DH are both great bodybuilders, but both have some pretty big flaws in their physiques. Phil and Kai have virtually none. They are bigger AND more complete.
    Shawn is probaly the most symmetrical and proportioned bodybuilder ever, and between him and Ronnie there are other guys exceptional in these areas (Cormier is one of them)

    Henry doesn't have big flaws related to his size (like Padilla who was a complete small guy) he's like a mini Ronnie and at least as complete as Phil or Kai if we are considering p4p. Phil lacks width with arms and delts overpowering his chest, Kai lacks traps and has a squished shape of the lats in the RLS due to his short torso, Henry has none of these

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  3. #63
    Registered User FAN0FdaSport's Avatar
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    henry has the smallest legs in that lineup
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  4. #64
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    It's hard for me to disagree with him. I prefer his physique to any other I've ever seen in BBing. And I've never seen the appeal in Dorian's physique.
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  5. #65
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    Originally Posted by FAN0FdaSport View Post
    henry has the smallest legs in that lineup
    Branch or Ben P are guys with monster legs but they aren't the best in the world because they lack in the upper body. Henry doesn't have the biggest legs in the 212 but it doesn't mean that they're lacking or are twigs compared to the others.
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  6. #66
    Sexual Tyrannosaurus Larfleeze's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Unbiasedfan View Post
    On the other hand you can point to ronnies calves and tris.
    I'd hardly call Ronnie's triceps a flaw, sure they didn't look the greatest in the side tri but they were still monstrously huge and looked great in every other pose
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  7. #67
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    Originally Posted by Larfleeze View Post
    I'd hardly call Ronnie's triceps a flaw, sure they didn't look the greatest in the side tri but they were still monstrously huge and looked great in every other pose
    Minor flaw, but a flaw still.
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  8. #68
    Abiad's Army DavisForman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Unbiasedfan View Post
    Couldn't disagree more. The only flaw in proportion that you can point in shawns physique is his delts. They were a bit underdevelopded considering the rest of his body, but it was a minor issue.

    On the other hand you can point to ronnies calves and tris.

    The difference is not great but ronnie surely isn't more proportionate than shawn.
    His tris? Show me where his tris are lacking.
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  9. #69
    Registered User Unbiasedfan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DavisForman View Post
    His tris? Show me where his tris are lacking.


    Didn't choose the pic...was the first in the search i made. Googled "ronnie coleman side triceps".

    Another, this onewas picked.



    Although they are great, they are underdevelopded from that prespective considering the rest of his physique.
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  10. #70
    Registered User purdey's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DavisForman View Post
    Purdey, what's your opinion on Dorian's 6 titles? Just interested to know how you see things of the 90s after our discussion a while back.

    Asking purely for my own curiosity, I am not trying to instigate a ten pager
    I think yates deserved all of them, I know a lot of people dont but IMO yates had a near perfect structure and his development was crazy all over. A lot of people knock his proportions but i think that he had ideal proportions, everything matched. 97 is debatable but yates biceps only effected some poses and he still out conditioned everyone else and had a better structure (long legs, short torso ext.). maybe if nasser matched yates conditioning he could have taken the win. Im mid tattoo so this is a "in a nutshell" reply but i am happy to discuss further later on bro. have a good one
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  11. #71
    Registered User Jenslyn17's Avatar
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    It's true. Somehow it seems his tricep just doesn't protrude from the arm, making it look flat and somewhat 2-dimensional.





    Compare to a tricep more like this



























    o_O
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    http://www.alanaragonblog.com/ - great research review /w practical considerations!

    http://www.biolayne.com.com/ - natural bodybuilder Layne Norton!

    http:://www.bodyrecomposition.com - Lyle McDonald's site - tons of great articles!
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  12. #72
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    Originally Posted by DavisForman View Post
    What 'same' argument? There is no 'same' argument involving Ronnie.

    You can't use the "He's smaller but more proportionate and complete than the bigger guy" because it's not true. Ronnie was bigger AND more complete/proportionate than Shawn.

    And you couldn't compare Flex or DH to Phil and Kai for the very same reasons.

    Flex and DH are both great bodybuilders, but both have some pretty big flaws in their physiques. Phil and Kai have virtually none. They are bigger AND more complete.
    I agree. Shawn wasnt wide enough for the length of his torso and his calves were too short (like yates biceps in 97). shawn did have a very nice looking physique though
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  13. #73
    Abiad's Army DavisForman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by spamy View Post
    Henry doesn't have big flaws related to his size (like Padilla who was a complete small guy) he's like a mini Ronnie and at least as complete as Phil or Kai if we are considering p4p. Phil lacks width with arms and delts overpowering his chest, Kai lacks traps and has a squished shape of the lats in the RLS due to his short torso, Henry has none of these
    Henry doesn't have big flaws? What about his quads? His biceps, which are non-existant from the back?





    Seriously, just take a look at his arms. Insane triceps sweep, no biceps. That's not a big proportions problem?

    Originally Posted by spamy View Post
    Henry doesn't have the biggest legs in the 212 but it doesn't mean that they're lacking or are twigs compared to the others.
    They're strongly lacking compared to his upper body, which is the topic at hand.

    Originally Posted by Unbiasedfan View Post
    Although they are great, they are underdevelopded from that prespective considering the rest of his physique.
    Minor disproportion, and only from that one angle. Not to the same extent of Ray's lack of delts.
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  14. #74
    Registered User Unbiasedfan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DavisForman View Post
    Minor disproportion, and only from that one angle. Not to the same extent of Ray's lack of delts.
    Even if i agreed, there was always calves/quad development disparity. Point is, ronnie isn't more proportionate than ray. Nothing wrong with that, pretty much nobody is/was.

    Bodybuildingwise, i would say ray is slightly more proportionate and symmetric (dependes on what year we are talking about since coleman had some back issues in some years) than coleman. On the other hand, ronnies top condition and especially overall muscle development make it a no contest.

    Size and condition were also Dorians main weapons against someone like Ray, so i can see why spamy brought that up. The difference imo is that ronnie is on a whole different level than dorian. He basically combines ray's and dorian's qualities.
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  15. #75
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    Originally Posted by spamy View Post
    Branch or Ben P are guys with monster legs but they aren't the best in the world because they lack in the upper body. Henry doesn't have the biggest legs in the 212 but it doesn't mean that they're lacking or are twigs compared to the others.
    ben p doesn't win shows and branch is branch

    i agree with you that david henry's physique has amazing proportions, but he isn't a superdeveloped physique like kai and phil. They only have those few flaws you mentioned but would give nothing else up in the comparisons. Henry's legs would get beaten in several poses if not all of them p4p
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  16. #76
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    Originally Posted by DavisForman View Post
    His tris? Show me where his tris are lacking.
    they are lacking in comparison to the full package for sure
    i do not endorse rep trading on forums.
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  17. #77
    Abiad's Army DavisForman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Unbiasedfan View Post
    Even if i agreed, there was always calves/quad development disparity. Point is, ronnie isn't more proportionate than ray. Nothing wrong with that, pretty much nobody is/was.

    Bodybuildingwise, i would say ray is slightly more proportionate and symmetric (dependes on what year we are talking about since coleman had some back issues in some years) than coleman. On the other hand, ronnies top condition and especially overall muscle development make it a no contest.

    Size and condition were also Dorians main weapons against someone like Ray, so i can see why spamy brought that up. The difference imo is that ronnie is on a whole different level than dorian. He basically combines ray's and dorian's qualities.
    It was similar in Shawn's case. His quads were pretty massive, but his calves were sub average.
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  18. #78
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    calves never cost anyone an olympia title nor earned one for someone
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    Originally Posted by u5711 View Post
    calves never cost anyone an olympia title nor earned one for someone
    If you didn't realize it yet, we are nitpicking.

    Originally Posted by DavisForman View Post
    It was similar in Shawn's case. His quads were pretty massive, but his calves were sub average.
    The disparity is nowhere near close enough. Ronnie had probably the goat quads with less than average calves (detailwise they can appear very weak in some shots). Shawn had good quads and good calves development/sweep and detail. The only thing you can point out is his calves insertion point being too high.
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    Originally Posted by FAN0FdaSport View Post
    once again almost irrelevant, dorian's "6 year domination" doesn't include the goat bber that is ronnie

    in an actual comparison ronnie would beat him in every pose except the ab/thigh and maybe the side tri. this is supported by dorian yates that explains contests are judged by mandatory poses NOT contest track records

    Ronnie Coleman

    1997 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 9th
    1996 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 6th
    1995 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 11th
    1994 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 15th

    Dorian Yates

    1997 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 1st
    1996 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 1st
    1995 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 1st
    1994 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 1st



    Originally Posted by SammyJr View Post
    that you ND?
    ND? Always train with a FullROM

    Originally Posted by chenko View Post
    FFS....Did you even watch the video?

    He said right now in 1996

    Ronnie didn't even exist, figuratively speaking, in 1996


    And lol at because the judges giving a title thinking that means someone won fair and square.....jesus christ olympia has several examples where only a moron could argue the winner deserved the win.....1981, 2007 a couple of them
    HEAD TO HEAD DORIAN 4 RONNIE 0

    Dorian beat Ronnie 4 times. Throughout 1994-1997. If it was not for his injuries then this period could have been longer.
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    Originally Posted by ROMMYromboid View Post
    HEAD TO HEAD DORIAN 4 RONNIE 0

    Dorian beat Ronnie 4 times. Throughout 1994-1997. If it was not for his injuries then this period could have been longer.
    is that supposed to be the same ronnie who was mr olympia? interesting... how you're avoiding a direct comparison. ronnie had more wins in every category and a much better physique get over it
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    Originally Posted by u5711 View Post
    calves never cost anyone an olympia title nor earned one for someone
    The ignorance...
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    Originally Posted by ROMMYromboid View Post
    Ronnie Coleman

    1997 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 9th
    1996 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 6th
    1995 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 11th
    1994 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 15th

    Dorian Yates

    1997 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 1st
    1996 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 1st
    1995 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 1st
    1994 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 1st



    ND? Always train with a FullROM


    HEAD TO HEAD DORIAN 4 RONNIE 0

    Dorian beat Ronnie 4 times. Throughout 1994-1997. If it was not for his injuries then this period could have been longer.
    Actually, if not for Flex telling Ronnie in 1997 what kind of bicycle he was going to need to keep up with the big boys, it could have happened sooner or later. Ronnie in 1994-early 1997 wasn't the same Ronnie as anything past the 1998 NOC. He went from losing to the top tier guys to making quick work of them.

    Dorian battled Flex and Levrone and had some hard titles to win. Flex and Levrone are both considered uncrowned Mr. O's and among the best of all time. They both simply lacked a little bit in one area or another vs Dorian. Ronnie, by 1998 was a whole different animal. Details like Flex, width like Kevin and more muscle basically everywhere than both. That's something Dorian NEVER had on them. By 2000+ it was a joke, Dorian would have been destroyed.
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    Guys, seriously, avoid arguing with the most blatant troll of all. It will only cost you time and nerves.
    People these days have more reps than brain cells
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    Originally Posted by T3mpest View Post
    Actually, if not for Flex telling Ronnie in 1997 what kind of bicycle he was going to need to keep up with the big boys, it could have happened sooner or later. Ronnie in 1994-early 1997 wasn't the same Ronnie as anything past the 1998 NOC. He went from losing to the top tier guys to making quick work of them.

    Dorian battled Flex and Levrone and had some hard titles to win. Flex and Levrone are both considered uncrowned Mr. O's and among the best of all time. They both simply lacked a little bit in one area or another vs Dorian. Ronnie, by 1998 was a whole different animal. Details like Flex, width like Kevin and more muscle basically everywhere than both. That's something Dorian NEVER had on them. By 2000+ it was a joke, Dorian would have been destroyed.
    People seem to forget about how short Dorian's career was. He competed as a pro for a grand total of 8 years, which is nothing compared to many other top pros throughout the history of the IFBB. Had he stuck around a little longer, I think his legacy wouldn't have been as grand as it is now. He would have been beaten by Ronnie just as badly as Ronnie beat everyone else.
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  27. #87
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    Originally Posted by T3mpest View Post
    Actually, if not for Flex telling Ronnie in 1997 what kind of bicycle he was going to need to keep up with the big boys, it could have happened sooner or later. Ronnie in 1994-early 1997 wasn't the same Ronnie as anything past the 1998 NOC. He went from losing to the top tier guys to making quick work of them.

    Dorian battled Flex and Levrone and had some hard titles to win. Flex and Levrone are both considered uncrowned Mr. O's and among the best of all time. They both simply lacked a little bit in one area or another vs Dorian. Ronnie, by 1998 was a whole different animal. Details like Flex, width like Kevin and more muscle basically everywhere than both. That's something Dorian NEVER had on them. By 2000+ it was a joke, Dorian would have been destroyed.
    Pre 98 Ronnie was one of the most ripped off bodybuilder's in IFBB history.

    I really don't know why either, his physique during all those years was phenomenal. Sure the size wasn't there, but with a more intense focus on proportions, he should've done a lot better than he did in those years.
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  28. #88
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    Originally Posted by ROMMYromboid View Post
    Ronnie Coleman

    1997 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 9th
    1996 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 6th
    1995 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 11th
    1994 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 15th

    Dorian Yates

    1997 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 1st
    1996 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 1st
    1995 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 1st
    1994 IFBB Mr. Olympia -- 1st

    .

    I'm going to reply to this post. Then I'm going to go log off for the last time go outside and walk into a river and keep walking till I reach the bottom. Then I am going to sit down and remain there till I drown. Because I am forced to qoute a post by FullROM in agreeance. Ronnie did not come into Mr.Olympia mode till after Dorian's reign. There are many great athletes whom perhaps due to conditioning issues or body development issues early on placed considerably poorly before they started recieving the respected and revered placements they are being put in later on in their careers. You may be able to look at them and see potential in their physiques but people have a tendency to ignore things such as unrefined conditioning because they like a guy's muscle bellies and/or shape. Trying to say a guy who may as well be listed as "did not place" is better than the reigning champion of the world is an example of this. You would be hard pressed to find anyone though that wouldn't tell you that even his First Olympia win(Ronnie) far surpassed Dorian in terms of physique even throughout his 6 year reign. Of course Ronnie's maximum mass potential far surpassed anything the world has ever seen. But it took him time to reach that level, he had to take some 15th places along the way.
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    Originally Posted by NVious View Post
    Pre 98 Ronnie was one of the most ripped off bodybuilder's in IFBB history.

    I really don't know why either, his physique during all those years was phenomenal. Sure the size wasn't there, but with a more intense focus on proportions, he should've done a lot better than he did in those years.
    Conditioning was a lot of it. He didn't have the size yet compared to say nasser or Kevin or flex or Dorian or even dillet. Shawn could out condition him as did a lot of guys most shows. He had shape and seperation, but was watery a lot and was missing a bit of size vs.a lot of the premier taller guys
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    Imagine what he'd have to say if he competed now, with Branch winning shows. ROFLZ.
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