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  1. #1
    Registered User Swifty5's Avatar
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    Help With Clean Bulk Diet Plan

    Hey,

    I'm 21 skinny fat i think (ectomorph). 77-78 kg and 177cm. Played soccer most of my life but stopped a while ago so have a bit of a belly. Just wondering how much Calories/Fat/Carbs/Protein i should be aiming at to CLEAN BULK? and and example of what sort of diet plan i should be looking at?

    I cam across this one:

    (can't link yet so put - http)://hasfit.com/diets/muscle-and-weight-gain-diet.pdf

    Can anyone tell me if it is relevant to me?
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  2. #2
    Registered User layarph's Avatar
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    95-99% of people that call themselves ectomorph or endomorph, always find out that once they calculate their dietary needs, that those names are absolute bullsh*t and just weren't eating enough or were eating too much before.

    Secondly, never use an online diet plan. How can anyone other than you, decide what foods you like?

    To know how much of the foods to eat, calculate your TDEE & cal / macro needs here with the Katch McArdle formula: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121703981

    This will tell you how many cals / macros you need.

    To clean bulk, add 10-20% of cals onto that TDEE / maintenance.

    Fill those macros / cals with foods you enjoy, not what some meal plan off the internet tells you. There are no "clean" or "dirty" foods; your body can only read the macros and cals you ingest, it can't read the name labels on the tin. See http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=149661773

    Just ensure that a good chunk of your food choices are whole / unprocessed to ensure you are getting enough micronutrients in.
    "Never attempt to train yourself into a caloric deficit. Don't spend hours on the treadmill. Diet comes first, cardio second. The dumbest fat loss strategy ever devised is used by people that wake up early in the morning before going to work to do cardio and follow that up with "recovery shake." Congratulations, you just wasted two hours of your life." Martin Berkhan
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  3. #3
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    ^^^ This x2.
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  4. #4
    Registered User Swifty5's Avatar
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    Thanks a lot! Gonna be a bit annoying but that link you sent me was confusing as about calculating my macros. Did you read the diet plan? It was pretty detailed and has all different types of food on it (most which i like). Seemed legit...
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  5. #5
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    ^ That "secret" diet plan is, at best, terrible.
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  6. #6
    Registered User layarph's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Swifty5 View Post
    Thanks a lot! Gonna be a bit annoying but that link you sent me was confusing as about calculating my macros. Did you read the diet plan? It was pretty detailed and has all different types of food on it (most which i like). Seemed legit...
    It isn't confusing. Stop being lazy and trying to find easier, yet worse solutions.

    If it's confusing at first, read it again.

    Use the Katch McArdle formula. It's simple maths. That will find you your TDEE.

    Then you need 1g per lb of lean body mass for protein, 0.45g per lb of total body mass for fat, then you can fill remaing calories with any macro or combination of macros you wish.

    Protein = 4 cals per gram
    Fat = 9 cals per gram
    Carbs = 4 cals per gram

    If you still have trouble, come back.
    Last edited by layarph; 11-22-2012 at 06:31 AM.
    "Never attempt to train yourself into a caloric deficit. Don't spend hours on the treadmill. Diet comes first, cardio second. The dumbest fat loss strategy ever devised is used by people that wake up early in the morning before going to work to do cardio and follow that up with "recovery shake." Congratulations, you just wasted two hours of your life." Martin Berkhan
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  7. #7
    Registered User Swifty5's Avatar
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    BMR = 370 + (21.6 x LBM)...is the 370 and 21.6 used for everyone? if so then i got: 2028.88 (my LBM was 76.8 - not sure if that's right)

    So my protein should be: 1 x 76.8?
    fat = 0.45 x (total body mass? is that BMI)
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  8. #8
    Registered User layarph's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Swifty5 View Post
    BMR = 370 + (21.6 x LBM)...is the 370 and 21.6 used for everyone? if so then i got: 2028.88 (my LBM was 76.8 - not sure if that's right)

    So my protein should be: 1 x 76.8?
    fat = 0.45 x (total body mass? is that BMI)
    Let's start with the BMR... BMR is what you burn if you are in a vegetative state, doing nothing. To arrive at your TDEE (total daily energy expenditure), you have a list of activity factors there (in the sticky) which you multiply that BMR by, to arrive at your TDEE. This activity factor includes your daily life; hard labour job, any sport, weight lifting, sitting at a desk, etc.

    At 169lbs, 5ft9 with no real muscle mass, I would guess your bf% to be around 15%. Therefore, this would make your LBM around 144lbs.

    But get your TDEE sorted first, then we'll do your protein and fat needs.
    "Never attempt to train yourself into a caloric deficit. Don't spend hours on the treadmill. Diet comes first, cardio second. The dumbest fat loss strategy ever devised is used by people that wake up early in the morning before going to work to do cardio and follow that up with "recovery shake." Congratulations, you just wasted two hours of your life." Martin Berkhan
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  9. #9
    Registered User Swifty5's Avatar
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    Okay...
    BMR = 1863.1 using this formula (http ://www . superskinnyme. com/calculate-tdee.html) - cant link so spaced
    TDEE = 1863.1 x (activity factor - now i am a uni student so don't do anything but study - however, now i have been going gym 4-5 times a week for the past week - so what should i put my activity factor as?)
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  10. #10
    Registered User layarph's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Swifty5 View Post
    Okay...
    BMR = 1863.1 using this formula (http ://www . superskinnyme. com/calculate-tdee.html) - cant link so spaced
    TDEE = 1863.1 x (activity factor - now i am a uni student so don't do anything but study - however, now i have been going gym 4-5 times a week for the past week - so what should i put my activity factor as?)
    You already had your BMR calculated from that sticky do I don't know why you re-did it with another website. But anyway ...

    Go to the sticky and look at the activity factors like I said and decide for yourself which one you fit into. These are just estimates anyway. They may be 100-300 cals too high or too low; you need to monitor your weight over the next month to see if you need to knock off or add on any cals each day.
    "Never attempt to train yourself into a caloric deficit. Don't spend hours on the treadmill. Diet comes first, cardio second. The dumbest fat loss strategy ever devised is used by people that wake up early in the morning before going to work to do cardio and follow that up with "recovery shake." Congratulations, you just wasted two hours of your life." Martin Berkhan
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  11. #11
    Registered User Swifty5's Avatar
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    Found the other sight more clearer. As i am going gym 4-5 times a week then i would use:
    1.5-1.6 = Moderately Active (Moderately daily Activity & Moderate exercise 3-5 days a week)

    So: 1863.1 x 1.6 = 2980.96 (gonna round it up to 3000)! So my TDEE is 3000 what do i do now.
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  12. #12
    Registered User layarph's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Swifty5 View Post
    Found the other sight more clearer. As i am going gym 4-5 times a week then i would use:
    1.5-1.6 = Moderately Active (Moderately daily Activity & Moderate exercise 3-5 days a week)

    So: 1863.1 x 1.6 = 2980.96 (gonna round it up to 3000)! So my TDEE is 3000 what do i do now.
    You should clean bulk IMO.

    So you need to add 10-20% cals on to that; but this is very important ... monitor your weight increase...that TDEE is just an estimate after all so you should monitor your first month regularly.

    Personally I feel you're overestimating your activity factor but don't worry; monitor your first week and if you're gaining too much weight, back off 100-200 cals, and so forth. It is a long road after all, so trial and error during the early stages is not a problem.

    Once you have added your 10-20% cals to your TDEE, then you have cal allowance each day for your clean bulking phase.

    Now you need to understand how much protein and fat you need; simple.

    - Protein should be 1g per lb of lean body mass (you need to estimate your bf% to know your LBM)
    - Fat should be 0.45g per lb of total body mass.

    Protein is 4 cals per gram, fat is 9 cals per gram and carbs are 4 cals per gram.

    Once you have worked out those protein and fat minimums, you can fill your remaining cal space (bulking cals - fat&protein cals) with either carbs, more protein, more fat or any combination... that's your choice.
    "Never attempt to train yourself into a caloric deficit. Don't spend hours on the treadmill. Diet comes first, cardio second. The dumbest fat loss strategy ever devised is used by people that wake up early in the morning before going to work to do cardio and follow that up with "recovery shake." Congratulations, you just wasted two hours of your life." Martin Berkhan
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  13. #13
    Registered User Swifty5's Avatar
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    my bf% is 18.57% (18.57% of 77 = 62.7)....So my LBM is 62.7
    - (so the protein i need is 1g x 62.7?)
    - is total body mass my overall weight (77kg)?
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  14. #14
    Chasing cats since 1967 WonderPug's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Swifty5 View Post
    - (so the protein i need is 1g x 62.7?)
    No.

    You need ~1 gram of protein per pound, not kg, of lean body mass.
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  15. #15
    Registered User layarph's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Swifty5 View Post
    my bf% is 18.57% (18.57% of 77 = 62.7)....So my LBM is 62.7
    - (so the protein i need is 1g x 62.7?)
    - is total body mass my overall weight (77kg)?
    Pal, we're working in lbs for this, not kg! To work out protein and fat, the general conensus and easiest way, is to deal with your weight in pounds (lbs).

    So at 18% body fat, your LBM is 140lbs. So you need 140g of protein as a minimum.
    And yes, total body mass is your total weight...jesus man haha ... so that's 0.45 x 169 = 76g fat as a minimum.

    Work out what those come to in calories; protein is 4 cals per gram, and fat is 9 cals per gram (and carbs are 4 cals per gram).

    Once you've worked out what your needed protein and fat intake comes to, you can fill the remaining space with any macros you prefer.
    "Never attempt to train yourself into a caloric deficit. Don't spend hours on the treadmill. Diet comes first, cardio second. The dumbest fat loss strategy ever devised is used by people that wake up early in the morning before going to work to do cardio and follow that up with "recovery shake." Congratulations, you just wasted two hours of your life." Martin Berkhan
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  16. #16
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    Originally Posted by Swifty5 View Post
    my bf% is 18.57% (18.57% of 77 = 62.7)....So my LBM is 62.7
    - (so the protein i need is 1g x 62.7?)
    - is total body mass my overall weight (77kg)?
    Its 1gr per lbs not on each kg. By 2-2,5 gram for 1 kg
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  17. #17
    Registered User Swifty5's Avatar
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    **** i suck at math...I'm use to kg's not pounds! But thanks heaps bro! Appreciate the help...I should be sweet for the rest
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  18. #18
    Registered User layarph's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Swifty5 View Post
    **** i suck at math...I'm use to kg's not pounds! But thanks heaps bro! Appreciate the help...I should be sweet for the rest
    Good luck.

    I was used to kg at first being a Brit... But you find a lot of stuff you get online is of an American origin which deals more with lbs.

    That's my theory anyway... Just get used to working in lbs.
    "Never attempt to train yourself into a caloric deficit. Don't spend hours on the treadmill. Diet comes first, cardio second. The dumbest fat loss strategy ever devised is used by people that wake up early in the morning before going to work to do cardio and follow that up with "recovery shake." Congratulations, you just wasted two hours of your life." Martin Berkhan
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  19. #19
    Registered User BigManChris's Avatar
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    Just want some advice on my clean bulk I'm very lean (5-7%body fat) just came off a cut. 6'3 172lbs 21 years old

    this is excluding my multi vitamin, fish oil, vitamin c, d, magnesium, etc

    breakfast
    scoop of protein powder
    oat bran
    blueberries
    bcac+glutamine
    583 cal 63g protein

    Lunch
    sweet potato
    yogurt+banana
    400 cal 22.6gs protein

    Pre workout shake
    protein powder
    pre workout
    bcaa+glutamine
    orange
    apple
    285cal 27.5g protein

    Post workout shake
    protein powder
    casein powder
    bcaa+glutamine
    (plain white potatoes baked on the side)
    393cal 40g protein

    Meal (one hour after shake)
    quinoa
    chicken
    brocolli
    green bean, yellow bean and carrot mix
    onion
    mushroom
    spinach
    670cal 49g protein

    Next meal ( i usually get creative)
    either protein cheesecake,
    protein muffins,
    protein cookies etc
    using casein protein
    564cal 58g protein

    Total 2900 calories 260g protein
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