Where to start? Cardio or Lifting?

[jturner181]

First - Thanks to everyone for responding. This site can be overwhelming and many many folks here with great results and living the lifestyle.

Here is my situation. I'm 37, use to have decent lungs, but very overweight at the moment. Currently about 248lbs (at 6' tall), work behind a desk and sit down 12-14hrs/day lately.

My goal is < 20% bodyfat, probably somewhere in the 195lb range, but I do not want to drop any muscle getting there. If anything, I want to increase muscle mass after I get my weight down and in better shape. I certainly want to increase my arm/chest size.

The challenge - I get to my max heart rate very quickly while working out. I was an athlete growing up, but been out of shape for 10+ years and SICK of it. My mind wants to get after it, but my body just isn't ready for the pace I wanna go. If I lift moderately, I blow past my max heart rate. If I run on the treadmill more than 15 mins, I blow past my max heart rate.

For the time being, should I focus on one vs the other? Cardio only or lifting or both?

Curious what others would suggest. I cannot get in/out of the gym, in an hour, and get through an average workout program without getting sick in the middle or taking 2 hours.

Thanks again,
Jamie

[MarinoMike]

You contradict yourself greatly dude. You say your minds in it but your body isn't. I've found that your body will take exponentially longer to reach physical exhaustion than your mind will. So snap out of that.

But dude there's no way around losing muscle mass. It's going to happen to cut that much off. But obviously you need to max out on cardio and you need to lift as well. You're probably just very weak. Have you tried running at a slower pace? Or even power walking at a steep incline? Burns calories and fat man. And my strength and conditioning coach always said some guy who can squat with just the bar but flawless form is way cooler than the guy who can put three plates on the bar and squat down 5 inches. So Just turn the intensity down until you get your strength/speed up.

[Zjunky]

I perfectly understand that your mind wants you to do more, but listen to your body. It took years to get into crappy shape. It's not going to change instantly just because you want it to.

If you spoke with a medical professional, go with that. If not, then push yourself, but do it gently. Pace yourself. If you go all gung-ho and hurt yourself it will just get harder.

Start simple. Do a bunch of push-ups then go for a twenty minute walk. Work up to a jog. Next time, go back to a walk but change the time to thirty minutes and work up to a jog for that length of time. Then do a 5 minute walk with a ten minute run.

Keep at it and it will come, just be sensible. Much as we'd all like it to be otherwise, it ain't gonna change just by wanting it.

[BloodySalad]

Do both, OP.

At your stage, it's doubtful that you'll be able to do enough cardio to affect muscle mass.
Get a decent beginner's lifting routine and stick to it. For cardio, do something you like and slowly build it up so that you're doing it for longer or more intense sessions.

And ditch the heart monitor. It's not worth a wank. Your body will tell you when you've had enough, rather than a piece of electronics.

[Armstrongha]

Another vote for both here

If you can do it consistently you'll be in the best shape of your entire life

[nebraskaheat]

Both X 3...

At that weight, your body and cardiovascular system in general can use the work.

I dropped 80 pounds of fat in about 10 months doing a bunch of cardio and lifting. As I lost the fat I slowly backed off the Cardio. Now I do one or 2 days of light cardio tops..


One great thing about going from sedentary-obese is, even if technically you will "lose muscle" during your weight loss, you will still gain strength..During my weight loss I consistently increased my strength gains, due to the fact years of not using my muscle, I was about as weak as a man can be..

[mtpockets]

no brainer. you need both so do both

[miamibodybuilder]

well in my opinion, you're definitely on the right track as far as wanting to get healthier by losing bodyfat and not weight. thats a great statement because to some it's all the same. but it obviously isnt to someone who trains on a daily basis. it can definitely be done though, losing bodyfat while maintaining or even gaining muscle, it's just a very slow process and requires lots of patience. the most important thing is to keep your diet on point, thats the one variable that you cant let get out of whack. you could maybe miss a day here and there if you're sick or injured, but the diet has to stay on point. if all the variables are in line, you're definitely going to succeed. so make sure diet/nutrition, training, supplementation and rest are all checked off daily. and in my opinion, i'd shoot for below 15% bodyfat. but dont just focus on one aspect of training over the other. you need to keep training with weights as well as get your cardio in.

[quietchef]

Agree with most responses in thread.

In regards to the heart rate monitor, don't worry about the max numbers. Focus on two things. When you cross 120 bpm, then your cardio training starts, that's going to be when you check the clock for how long you plan on for your duration (20-30 minutes in that zone daily is very adequate), secondly is your resting heart rate, the lower the better, good luck!

[drudixon]

If you haven't been lifting how much muscle can you lose ? Lift and walk.walk

[repsandsets]

If you're routinely exceeding your HR max and still feel OK, it probably just means the estimate is not right. The formulas used to calculate HR max are just a guide - individuals vary.

You should continue with your cardio training in order to improve your cv fitness - as the stroke volume of your heart increases, it will bring down your heart rate.

I agree with the other posters, cardio in combination with lifting is definitely the right approach. Over time, the cardio will not just help burn calories and therefore contribute to your calorie deficit, but it will also train your metabolism to burn fat more effectively. And the weights will help to preserve your lean muscle mass.

[Gunsentry]

Fat loss is done in the kitchen fitness is done in the gym.

Weight loss and muscle gain are opposites and can not be done unless your nutrition and workouts are 100%.

Just cut the fat off your body, exercise (cardio, weights or both) will help but its calories you need to control.

Do 5x5 routing and keep your strength will "Cutting" dieting off the fat.

I was in same position as you 12 months ago, I lost 82 pounds - diet and cardio then I hit the weights once the fat was off and started building up, hardly do any cardio as my diet controls the fat.

I am 49 btw - 32" waist now from 42 and gaining lean muscle mass on 5x5 routine.

And it takes time to loose and gain no overnight miracles just hard work, what you put in you get out.

[SpoonieXL]

Do both OP! Run in the morning, it boosts your metabolism throughout the day.

[BearLovesLuna]

There's a lot of great advice in here, some bad- but number one is that the fat has to go. If you NEVER lifted a pound of weight, you will be far better off just LOSING the fat.

That being said, forget this "mind" crap, and push yourself when you can, listen to the signs, and be patient and ease into some of this. See your doctor. (By "forget this mind crap" I meant, don't listen to that 20-something poster who has no idea what it is like to be 37 and obese- no offense calling you obese... I am just saying, the kid has no idea what pushing oneself is like when you are out of shape, over 35, and obese, as he never HAS been any of those things... I mean "DO" listen to your mind/body, but remember to push yourself while listening- if you feel good, go hard- if you are sensing a limit max, drop back- take it easier)

You are 37? Take your time. (I am 47, and was, this year when I dropped my 40lbs). You took a long time getting to where you are. You will come out of it WAY faster, but don't get impatient. IMO, get some dumbells or even a full weight set, ease into some basic toning for a couple weeks, and slowly increase it into strength or BB strategies.

You are going to feel AMAZING in about 5-6 months, if you meet your goals. Like you are in your 20's again.

Muscle mass can be maintained or even grown for the untrained and overweigh/obese. However, if you drop caloric intake too harshly, lose too fast, you may lose more (muscle), so try to be patient.

For me and many others, low carb high protein diets can do the trick. I personally think carbs affect many people differently, so see what works for you.

Any help I can offer, happy to. Drop the weight is number one, but try not to sacrifice too much for speed of loss.

This is going to be AWESOME feeling... never forget that, no matter how much the scale tries not to move, or even goes back "UP" sometimes... it's about the long term, not day to day... trend down, stick to it, and win...

[hammerfelt]

If you haven't been lifting how much muscle can you lose ? Lift and walk.walk

^^^ this x 1000

Separate cardio and lifting. I am at my best when I walk an hour in the morning and lift in the evening.

[jturner181]

Thanks all - I agree Bear - some good advice, some probably wont work for me for age/shape reasons.

The good news though... I've started. I've been running, cycling at the gym, ran a 5k on Turkey Day and lifted twice now. Lifting, then cardio in the same session is a killer for me.

One more question - does the type of cardio matter?

Example: I run on the treadmill and its tough at 245lbs, but slow it down, increase the incline and keep my heart rate at similar levels. It seems like I'm laboring much less, but my heart rate is still very high.

Is running on the treadmill at 165 heart rate the same cardio results as 165 heart rate walking at steep incline?

Thanks again everyone!

[BearLovesLuna]

One more question - does the type of cardio matter?

Example: I run on the treadmill and its tough at 245lbs, but slow it down, increase the incline and keep my heart rate at similar levels. It seems like I'm laboring much less, but my heart rate is still very high.

Is running on the treadmill at 165 heart rate the same cardio results as 165 heart rate walking at steep incline?

Thanks again everyone!

To answer your specific question, about the two exercises you listed, there really should be no difference in result (weight loss, etc...)

Regarding some more "advanced" forms of cardio at differing levels of intensity or heart rate, some would say yes, some would say no (about it making a difference).

Some would say HIIT (although that is not what you are doing right now) burns more, over a 24 hour period, or at least the same. Others say heart rate zones matter- meaning, hitting the sweet spot of 65% or max heart rate is best. I personally think it doesn't matter, that both will be similar in caloric burn, but the more important of point is -
Do what you can do, consistently, that works for you, and you like it- why? You will keep doing it if you like it.
Two- For someone in your shape, HIIT is just not a good idea, until you have seen your doctor, and until you are really ready for it.

I like both HIIT and long slow distance cardio. Why? I like the benefits of both.

I would suggest staying with what you enjoy, for now, no matter what it is, and just focus on the losing the weight and increasing cardio strength (both aerobic and muscular) and plug along.

[nebraskaheat]

To answer your specific question, about the two exercises you listed, there really should be no difference in result (weight loss, etc...)

Regarding some more "advanced" forms of cardio at differing levels of intensity or heart rate, some would say yes, some would say no (about it making a difference).

Some would say HIIT (although that is not what you are doing right now) burns more, over a 24 hour period, or at least the same. Others say heart rate zones matter- meaning, hitting the sweet spot of 65% or max heart rate is best. I personally think it doesn't matter, that both will be similar in caloric burn, but the more important of point is -
Do what you can do, consistently, that works for you, and you like it- why? You will keep doing it if you like it.
Two- For someone in your shape, HIIT is just not a good idea, until you have seen your doctor, and until you are really ready for it.

I like both HIIT and long slow distance cardio. Why? I like the benefits of both.

I would suggest staying with what you enjoy, for now, no matter what it is, and just focus on the losing the weight and increasing cardio strength (both aerobic and muscular) and plug along.

This is great advice OP. Besides being obese, I have been a lifelong asthma sufferer. HIIT really was never an option because my lungs were - are so weak. I have to really pace myself during cardio and maintain my breathing to keep from having an asthmatic episode.

Like I said earlier, I lost 80 punds in a relatively short time never escalating my heart rate or cardio speed to levels some seem to insist you need to to be effective..

And slowly my cardio-asthma is improving that I might be able to try some HIIT some day just for fun.

[BearLovesLuna]

And slowly my cardio-asthma is improving that I might be able to try some HIIT some day just for fun.

Got a big **** eating grin on this... why?

I LOVE anyone saying "want to try some HIIT for 'fun'..." It's never fun! It's pain!!! hehehe... but I hear you... and I LOVE the attitude of anyone that can see that kind of stuff as fun... but, you're not here, or where you are, physically, because you are a pussy... so that should not surprise me...


It truly is fun in the end, and I hope you can get there... you will... you are one of those I think (like so many in here) that finishes a set, in pain, exhausted, and goes one more, thinking "12 reps on the next set might not happen", then when the timer goes off, you sit down and laugh, knowing in your heart that if 12 is in you, it's gonna happen, no matter how it hurts...

Love it...

[thefalsediviner]

I'll share my experience with this. I have achieved a huge change in my weight and, body fat and lean muscle %'s by doing a good amount of both. I would suggest starting out with a basic lifting routine nothing fancy just the basics. I would lift 5 days a week for a total of 5 hrs a week. During that 5hrs of work I would focus all my efforts into lifting with perfect form as opposed to worrying about how heavy you are going. In addition to the time spint focusing on your lifting form I would do low impact cardio for 30-40 min. three times a week. Start out with walking on the treadmill. You can increase the incline and speed as you become more capable. As you get in better shape you can work your way into some high intensity interval cardio say elliptical sprints for 30 second with high resistance interval times ten with 45 second no resistance rest intervals in between. You may also be experiencing a huge lack of athleticism from the sedentary job. I'm going to suggest you warm up daily, on the mat with bird dogs, cat and camels, fire hydrants, child and cobra poses, supine scorpions, prone scorpions, supine bridges, single leg supine bridges and straight bar shoulder dislocations, all times ten. Lastly, you can do all the above without a solid nutritional plan and see minimal results or you can get smart about food and see maximum results.

[NorwichGrad]

OP:

I'm gonna take a different approach. This guy is a great friend of mine.

http://c4fizeek.com/2011/10/26/cardio-for-fat-loss-is/

[melodyjayne]

this is a brilliant start for us older people ; ) http://www.amazon.com/New-Rules-Lift...=bookblog03-20

[tburnell]

My suggestion is lift for about 3-4 months religously (muscle uses more energy aka fat) so the more muscle mass you have the more fat your going to burn. get some decent strength built up then start incorporating about 30mins of interval style cardio 3 times a week

[JolietKev]

Dont overthink it too much just get active first and you will notice progress. I am with the majority here that say do both. Looking forward to seeing and hearing about your progress. Find out what works for you everyone id different and everyone has different goals . Best of luck to you.

[nebraskaheat]

Got a big **** eating grin on this... why?

I LOVE anyone saying "want to try some HIIT for 'fun'..." It's never fun! It's pain!!! hehehe... but I hear you... and I LOVE the attitude of anyone that can see that kind of stuff as fun... but, you're not here, or where you are, physically, because you are a pussy... so that should not surprise me...


It truly is fun in the end, and I hope you can get there... you will... you are one of those I think (like so many in here) that finishes a set, in pain, exhausted, and goes one more, thinking "12 reps on the next set might not happen", then when the timer goes off, you sit down and laugh, knowing in your heart that if 12 is in you, it's gonna happen, no matter how it hurts...

Love it...

HAHA.. Yeah, I'm slowly developing into a masochist, I enjoy the pain now.. I'm hoping to eventually run a marathon with my wife (she has run 3).. That's kind of a personal bucket list goal. I'm learning how to breathe under duress properly.

Maybe it was the years on the couch and the feeling I have some making up to do, but yeah, like you mentioned, I go till there isn't much left.. Tjat's why I mentioned on that other thread that my buddy was telling me I need more recovery days.. I'm ike man, I spent 8 years recovering on the couch, I'm putting in work now !!

[nebraskaheat]

Dont overthink it too much just get active first and you will notice progress. I am with the majority here that say do both. Looking forward to seeing and hearing about your progress. Find out what works for you everyone id different and everyone has different goals . Best of luck to you.

This too.. Important part is getting your body in motion and used to activity again.. You'll see a bunch of "get up and walk" advertising and people will roll their eyes and say "oh yeah, like walking around the block will make them healthy"..

No, why they advertise and promote walking around the block is, what will likely happen next is you will decide to walk 3 blocks, then maybe you'll start biking a few miles etc.etc.etc.. The whole key is just to get moving..

[tsoden]

Thanks all - I agree Bear - some good advice, some probably wont work for me for age/shape reasons.

The good news though... I've started. I've been running, cycling at the gym, ran a 5k on Turkey Day and lifted twice now. Lifting, then cardio in the same session is a killer for me.

One more question - does the type of cardio matter?

Example: I run on the treadmill and its tough at 245lbs, but slow it down, increase the incline and keep my heart rate at similar levels. It seems like I'm laboring much less, but my heart rate is still very high.

Is running on the treadmill at 165 heart rate the same cardio results as 165 heart rate walking at steep incline?

Thanks again everyone!

Are you holding on to the treadmill while on incline? If so, don't and Lower the incline. I found mixing thing up really helped me when I was losing a lot of fat...still have ways to go mind you. I prefer something that I know will make me sweat buckets. SPINNING is really good at kicking ones ass and if you like cycling, can be kinda fun with the high energy music played, but it's up to you to set the challenge and meet it. I also loved the step climber....but can find it hard on the balls of the feet after a long time. In the summer, I walk lots and prefer hoping on my bicycle and really challenge my speed. In your case, forced speed from an electronic piece of equipment (treadmill) may be best as it forces you to work hard rather than relying that you will challenge yourself on non electric (it can be easy to just give up on these)...like bike and elliptical. As stated before...just be sure to do it without holding onto the machine.

[tsoden]

This too.. Important part is getting your body in motion and used to activity again.. You'll see a bunch of "get up and walk" advertising and people will roll their eyes and say "oh yeah, like walking around the block will make them healthy"..

No, why they advertise and promote walking around the block is, what will likely happen next is you will decide to walk 3 blocks, then maybe you'll start biking a few miles etc.etc.etc.. The whole key is just to get moving..

Exactly...you can challenge yourself with walking. Just keep adding distance. I started with short 1/2 hour walks...increased my walking speed and over time increased distance. Upped the walk to 1 hour and challenged myself how far I could go in that time (a ****meter really helps here). I eventually turned walking I to running and was then doing the same walk route but trying to beat my times over and over again.

[kimmyrae05]

I'm so proud of you and love you baby!!! Go get'em tiger!!! Love, your wifey! xoxo

First - Thanks to everyone for responding. This site can be overwhelming and many many folks here with great results and living the lifestyle.

Here is my situation. I'm 37, use to have decent lungs, but very overweight at the moment. Currently about 248lbs (at 6' tall), work behind a desk and sit down 12-14hrs/day lately.

My goal is < 20% bodyfat, probably somewhere in the 195lb range, but I do not want to drop any muscle getting there. If anything, I want to increase muscle mass after I get my weight down and in better shape. I certainly want to increase my arm/chest size.

The challenge - I get to my max heart rate very quickly while working out. I was an athlete growing up, but been out of shape for 10+ years and SICK of it. My mind wants to get after it, but my body just isn't ready for the pace I wanna go. If I lift moderately, I blow past my max heart rate. If I run on the treadmill more than 15 mins, I blow past my max heart rate.

For the time being, should I focus on one vs the other? Cardio only or lifting or both?

Curious what others would suggest. I cannot get in/out of the gym, in an hour, and get through an average workout program without getting sick in the middle or taking 2 hours.

Thanks again,
Jamie

[MightyKingOdin]

Firstly … you are a young man … so by rights your body should re-act a whole lot quicker to stimulus than mine did … and I can tell you this … mine re-acted immediately and I’m pushing 50.

I reduced my body weight from 215lbs to 180lbs in 3 months.

At your height I would guess your targeted weight to be around 85 - 90kg. Around 195lbs. In other words you need to get rid of 50lbs. That is very do-able.

The body is beautifully created. It was designed to be healthy and strong so when we put demands on it, it tends to join hands with us and works toward a common goal. In other words … don’t use the body as an excuse. It’s a crock!!

Your body demands feeding from you every day. If you deny it its usual supply of daily sustenance, by reducing your calorie intake, it searches your storehouses for energy and consumes whatever you have in reserve. Thus it breaks down the fat you have stored up and you lose weight.

Muscle makes even more of a demand on the body. By training with weights you not only give yourself a shot at retaining muscle but also enhance the fat attack on your surplus stores. A double whammy all targeting fat reduction and weight loss while building a little muscle tone.

In short get your diet right and take a good multivitamin that replaces all lost nutrients that the diet doesn’t supply, do cardio … push your pulse rate up to past 120 and maintain it for at least twenty minutes 3 x 4 times a week … hit the weights … hard … build a little muscle … find yourself consistently in the gym … and be a little patient.

You do that and I guarantee you, your body will re-act positively and you won’t recognize yourself in 3 months.

You will feel like a million bucks … just like I do ... and it's an awesome feeling.

Best of Luck to you.