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  1. #1
    Registered User Bunnyphant's Avatar
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    Bunnyphant's metabolism recovery for fat loss

    Hi everyone. I am so excited and happy to be back here. I was gone for a couple of months after I literally stopped losing weight no matter how much cardio, how much calorie deficit I made. I was disheartened, unmotivated and so sad that I drove myself to the edge.
    My eating disorder slowly came back and food started controlling me. My self-esteem was severely attacked and I had no clue what was going on.
    Dieting became hard, my weight started increasing REALLY FAST.

    Very recently, I realized and came to accept that I have metabolic damage, due to my irresponsible dieting and eating disorder. I tortured myself so badly and negleted to take care of it. I am on my recovery and walking through with my great coach, Layne Norton. I am so happy I hired him for so many reasons, and if people with some background of eating disorders or obsession are looking for a coach, I highly recommend him.
    Without him, I probably wrecked my mental health. He taught me how to give up self-defeating self-talk, how it is important to step back and look at the big picture. Moreover, his support is phenomenal.

    I am starting this thread because I wanted to log my recovery process. Moreover, I really would like to let people know that what it takes to repair metabolism and how it is important to listen and take care of your body. Don't be ignorant like me. You will regret. if you have one, we need to stay strong. mental side of this progress is the hardest part EVER. however, the reward of normalcy and health is priceless. we will appreciate once it comes back. pain is raw and part of our life.

    I recently dropped all my cardio besides some hiit sessions(less than 30 mins). I lift 5 days a week. I do lots of compound movements which improved my core, and back tremendously. I cannot post my workout regimen since he made a customized workout regimen for me, but it is PHAT which Layne wrote a really good detailed article at simplyshredded.

    I increased my carb intake. My nutrition is similar to what many of you follows. Protein intake>Carbs>fat.

    At last but not least, I want to say big thank you to Grifts who educated me on weight lifting. You are such a big support and always helping me go through tough times. Getting to know you through this forum was one of the best things ever happened to me in my life!!!!
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  2. #2
    Registered User Bunnyphant's Avatar
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    I am off to my HIIT session soon. I worked on my back and shoulder. I kind of look bulky. I get lots of comments that I look like muscle lol
    But to be honest, not doing cardio helps me stay calm. I realized... I hate cardio. I always had to take a nap every time i did cardio. I was super hungry after too.

    I forgot to check macro of cheese i ate, so I don't know my exact macro I consumed today. I will start posting macros here so that I can be consistent
    And possibly tomorrow I am receiving my results of thyroid test i got last week.
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  3. #3
    Wackadoo Grifts's Avatar
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    Thanks for the honorable mention! I will be following you for sure.
    www.squidoo.com/keto-diet

    Was 300+ lbs.
    Logs
    90 day XAT-7 and Cardio Igniter forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=146779723
    TEST-PEAK http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=149177173
    2013 BB.com challenge log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=150876933

    Sugar Alcohols...Explained http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=151110953

    Metabolic advantage of keto diet: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=153834101
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  4. #4
    Registered User Bunnyphant's Avatar
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    Today was my leg day. I was working on box squats which I literally suck at. This guy at my gym came to help me after I realized I could not get up LOL

    So far I am enjoying my carbs. I love sweet potatos. I'm also eating chickens, turkey and lean beef. Ditching cardio was probably a good idea. I was always hungry after cardio, and portion control made me feel like I was starving myself. I was never satisfied with amount of food I was consuming.
    Now, i have better control over how much I eat. I am enjoying every bite.

    However, I am not weighing myself at all. I cannot. Otherwise, I will have to face some distorted body image again and struggle mentally.
    Maybe this is a test to love my body unconditionally, which I never did. My life is giving me a test until I pass it. Metabolic damage sucks... and I have no idea how long it takes to heal it, but I started to see it as a test my life gave and will continue doing so until I start to love my body unconditionally
    Last edited by Bunnyphant; 11-12-2012 at 11:41 PM.
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  5. #5
    Registered User Bunnyphant's Avatar
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    When I learned what metabolic damage is, I also found out that many coaches and trainers out there put their clients on extreme programs. 60 mins of cardio everyday, 5 days a week lifting, and crazy diet. I found some trainers making girls eat 1800 kcal a day, and do cardio for 60 mins everyday. those trainers claimed that the program will make them lean.( i mean... what are they trying to do? build muscle or cut?)

    What I really learned from reading all those comments, posts and threads is that we need to ask "why" we are doing that, "why" those exercises are part of the program. Yes, fat loss, muscle gain, and being on a stage are probably our first priority when people are dieting and working out. But we only have one body, and that does not belong to our coach or trainer. Unfortunately people with MD failed to prioritize in my opinion. They took fat loss over health, muscle gain over health, being on a stage over health. At the end of the day, however, what really matters is our health.

    Adrenal fatigue, hair loss, obsession with food, unreasonable appetite, unreasonable weight gain and other symptoms we experience because of MD really challenge us both mentally and physically. Even once we start repairing your metabolism, people ask why we are not doing cardio anymore, some people who dont know about MD tell us what we are doing (not doing cardio and eating normally) is wrong. Some people piss us off to no end.

    So, were extreme fat loss, extreme workout and extreme dieting worth at all? it may have given me short term satisfaction, but there is no way they were worth it.

    However, life gives us a second chance no matter what kind of problem we have. i wrecked my metabolism but have tomorrow. i have a second chance to start all over again. taking a good rest, eating healthy and taking a baby step everyday to love my body... my future self will apreciate these actions. I wont regret. Even if I fail one day, i have tomorrow. I wont blame myself. I will just start over again.
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  6. #6
    Registered User Bunnyphant's Avatar
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    Today was only hiit day.
    I admit that I am a biiiiiiiiiiig finance nerd. I am reading Michael Lewis's books. Since I ditched my cardio, I have extra time to spend on my hobby.
    Ah I probably need to rephrase it. I am getting to know myself. Before I ditched my cardio, I would have said my hobby was working out at gym.
    Spinning, yoga wooooooooooot. seriously, shoot me in my face. there is absolutely nothing wrong with loving workout, but what else intrigues you?
    I totally wasted my time by starving, being so obsessed with food and scale, working out at gym, being so stressed out and binging.

    What are you passionate about? what do you find captivating?

    Today, I was thinking about what energizes me emotionally and mentally. Thinking about bikini body? having health as my ultimate goal?
    The answer came out of totally different field. I love finance. I love derivatives. I love capital market and money market.
    The best time I ever had in my life was when I interned at investment bank.

    My passion for finance is what drives me. I want to get msc in finance and investment. I want to go back to wall street.
    It was a big reason why i was so determined to establish a healthy habit and become healthy, so that I can do what I am so passionate about.
    Why are you trying to lose weight, or gain muscle? What are REAL reasons behind it? to feel good about yourself and to gain self esteem are probably common answers especially from girls. But, what do they REALLY mean? What does feeling good about yourself enable you to do?

    I am really consistent with macro now which is surprising because I was so obsessed with food before.
    I have no idea where the obsession went, but reorganizing my thoughts helped me a lot. I am updating my progress to Layne tomorrow.
    And I am hoping my thyroid test resuts will arrive by the time I email him.
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  7. #7
    Registered User Bunnyphant's Avatar
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    It was a quite hard day today.

    I was told I look really muscular. I built more muscle than I intended, and I will probably look muscular for a while.
    However, I was super happy with my body a couple of days ago. My butt was looking awesome. I love my triceps and shoulders.
    But now, people who are close to me say I look quite manly.

    Of course I cannot satisfy everyone and I should NEVER live to other people's expectation, it does hurt to hear something discouraging.

    I think this is why I really needed a coach. I needed someone who tells me what i need to hear. I am not only one who is telling myself to stay focused.

    By the way, for people who think they might have MD, I highly recommend thyroid test.
    Make sure you check, T3, reverse T3, thyroid antibodies (anti TPO, TgAb) and Ferretin.
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  8. #8
    Registered User Bunnyphant's Avatar
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    I feel like it just gives vague images when I say metabolic damage. I am not even sure if I truely know where I stand right now.
    I send pictures to my coach every week, and you know what.... I HATE it. I hate looking at pictures. I wish I did not have to send them.
    However, pictures are the best way to capture any progress. Of course if we have distorted view and shelter any objective information, we see pictures in different ways. I take pics with my blackberry and in my mind I say "****. i look so fat!"

    I am sure many people including competitors, dieters, and people with MD have time they feel so dissapointed after looking at their pics.
    Self-defeating self talk ruins your self esteem. We all need to see what improved since we started any program or training. I looked bigger in the pics but I was happy with my glutes. No more flat asian butt woooot. Layne gave me the best butt ever. He agreed that I made such an improvement on my glutes.

    Little by little, I am focusing on my improvements rather than how I am still gaining weight.
    As my coach said, it is not sprint but a marathon. Without regular recognition of improvements, I will not be able to recover...
    I'm hoping my body is getting better. I have no idea when I will see any visible progress, but till then I will focus on what improvements I made ever since I started training.
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  9. #9
    Registered User gregorymcm's Avatar
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    Good luck my friend. You will succeed this time around especially with Layne Norton on your side. I am also using a form of his P.H.A.T program and love the results that one can obtain from it.

    Never give up
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  10. #10
    Registered User Bunnyphant's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gregorymcm View Post
    Good luck my friend. You will succeed this time around especially with Layne Norton on your side. I am also using a form of his P.H.A.T program and love the results that one can obtain from it.

    Never give up
    Thank you so much!!!!! I really really appreciate your comment and you def encouraged me. I love PHAT and omg I have no idea how much muscle I gained by just following it
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  11. #11
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    Good blog, I think its good that there are blogs like these where you write a bit about the mental aspect about it all. By the way, if you haven't read it: http://www.leangains.com/2010/01/marshmallow-test.html I think this is something a lot of people forget when they are trying to achieve results. You mentioned that your coach had said that this is a marathon, not a sprint. And of course he is correct. And I feel that this article explains how your approach should be.

    Anyways good luck!
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  12. #12
    Registered User Bunnyphant's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Horizon92 View Post
    Good blog, I think its good that there are blogs like these where you write a bit about the mental aspect about it all. By the way, if you haven't read it: http://www.leangains.com/2010/01/marshmallow-test.html I think this is something a lot of people forget when they are trying to achieve results. You mentioned that your coach had said that this is a marathon, not a sprint. And of course he is correct. And I feel that this article explains how your approach should be.

    Anyways good luck!
    Thank you so much! I actually have read this article a while ago, but re-reading this is so empowering. I really appreciate it!!!
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  13. #13
    Registered User Bunnyphant's Avatar
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    I have received some questions about P.H.A.T program, especially how much gains one can expect from doing this program.
    Since I still consider myself new to weight lifting, I really cannot give any firm answer besides my own experience.
    As a novice, this program made me sore to no end for 2 weeks even though I did not do any failure set for first 2 weeks.
    To be honest, I abhored back exercises because my back was probably and still is the weakest part of my body.
    Doing 25 lbs T-Bar rows was a big obstacle and made me breath really really hard when I started it. (less than 3 months ago)
    Now, I do T-Bar rows at 65lbs for more than 4 reps. Of course I saw people who are new to weight lifting see a big gain in comparison to people who have been doing for a while. However, I was shocked how strong I became. My posture improved A LOT. I look more confident.

    I have totally new shoulders now too. They are a lot more defined than before. Actually my first time to see muscles on my shoulders lol
    A few guys at my gym asked me how I got my shoulders and arms in such a short amount of time, so I told them to look up PHAT program and read Layne's articles. They were sore for first couple of weeks but they are getting accustomed to the volume. Since mine is personalized by Layne, we are not doing exactly the same thing but those guys are seeing results already. Especially their strength and legs. (I think many guys avoid training legs which I find so bizarre and abstruse to understand. )

    Do I recommend this program? Yes, of course. I mean, I LOVE it!!!
    Once I recover from damage, I'm soooooooooo sure I will look really good. Layne really transformed my body, and I cannot thank him enough for developing this program. (and I actually don't tell him whenever I email him. I blame the asian in me ) If I never did this program, I probably could not maintain self-confidence and self-esteem.
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  14. #14
    Registered User Bunnyphant's Avatar
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    I will soon start writing an email to Layne, but I wanted to post here first.
    I'd like to write about frustration, and emotions associated with diet, workout, and recovery. So one day, you realize you are not gaining/losing weight as much as you expected. Then you alter your expectation to more realistic one, but then you see no improvement for a while. You get frustrated and try to double your workout volume, diet down even more...and hope it SHOULD work. If it is not working..... well it is upsetting and discouraging beyond measure.
    I was frustrated and disheartened because I worked so hard but felt like I miserably failed and was not even able to achieve my goals to begin with.

    I found Layne and contacted him out of so much frustration. My emotion was incessant. My anger and frustration were incessant.
    If you contact any qualified coach, s/he will say "what's your diet like?" or "maybe we need to repair your metabolism"
    I'll be honest, Layne told me we needed to fix my metabolism. However, we need to know my body first. For some reasons, my workethic fell apart.
    I started watching food like porn, reporting my fatigue to Layne. These were small signs of metabolic damage. However, I ate more carbs than before I felt a bit more energy. I thought, if i had more energy to workout I am ok. I totally ignored small signs such as hair loss, fatigue, brain fogs, and extreme need to take a nap. I was thinking, Layne is an expert and he knows this XYZ formula to transform my body to a bikini competitor like body.

    I came to the point where I could not ignore but realize my body was not reacting. I told Layne, and his reply was that we need to fix my metabolism ASAP.
    It was not an answer I was hoping to hear. but it was what i had to hear. My body was telling me to stop countering weight gain in any capacity.

    What about my frustration now? It is still there, but I feel a lot less frustrated ever since I accepted. Still emotional part of this progress is hard.
    But dealing with frustration in a wrong way is detrimental in my honest opinion. When we have so much frustration, that is when we need to keep perspective and nerve. Moreover, have someone who can tell you what you need to hear.
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  15. #15
    Registered User Bunnyphant's Avatar
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    I miserably failed to follow macro....

    Layne told me to increase carb and whenever I tried to increase or decrease something, I fail at first.
    Then I blame myself for not following perfect..... I should not though. Actually, not following macro perfectly allowed me to realize I have metabolic damage.
    I saw unreasonable weight gain BUT I seriously need to be consistent. Currently my roomie and I are moving out on top of final exams and projects.
    This is causing us to freak out and get stressed out in a bad way.

    I am trying to read some books on food issues or emotional eating. I am thinking some books from Scott Abel.
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  16. #16
    Registered User Bunnyphant's Avatar
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    My coach Layne talks about metabolic damage!
    Please watch it

    http://www.biolayne.com/nutrition/bi...abolic-damage/
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  17. #17
    Registered User Bunnyphant's Avatar
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    So currently my only cardio is HIIT.
    I used to use either elliptical or treadmill, but I accidently (but at the same time inevitably) broke some treadmills at gym... come on! keep up!
    So i am searching what machine or equipment I can use to do HIIT.
    So far, elliptical has been the best for me. ( jumping rope is too hard for me now ) what is everyone's favorite HIIT routine?
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  18. #18
    Registered User Bunnyphant's Avatar
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    I moved back to Japan a lot earlier due to my family related issue. Now I am organizing everything.
    Unlike the states, there is no gym with "enough" facilities except gold gym. However, even the closest gold gym for me was 50 mins away from where I live by subway.
    I finally found a local gym with facilities! I am joining this weekend. I am mega excited.
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  19. #19
    Wackadoo Grifts's Avatar
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    Welcome back! I had been wondering about where you have been.

    Just watched Layne's Video. Interesting stuff.

    How's Japan?
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  20. #20
    Registered User Bunnyphant's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Grifts View Post
    Welcome back! I had been wondering about where you have been.

    Just watched Layne's Video. Interesting stuff.

    How's Japan?
    Thank you!
    It is really really cold here. I got spoiled with nice warm weather in L.A. I literally ran to the gym once I got off a subway.
    I felt a lot weaker than before after a week long of not lifting.
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    Culture shock

    Without any intention to sound malicious, I would like to say everyone is f-ing skinny in Japan.
    My mom kept saying how I was bulky and looked like a swimmer. I finally told her to be quiet and ignore what was going on with my appearance.
    While I was shopping, clerks at shops were asking what kind of sports I play. I sensed negative connotation while I was listening to them. I wish people could ignore or never judge how I look just because I don't look like them.

    In Japan, especially for girls skinny=beautiful. Weight lifting is such a taboo or Pandora's box( because you get "bulky" and look like a MAN)
    I wish I could just say"the rest of the world does not really find you guys attractive!!!!"( of course I cannot say this because it is not true. everyone is different and has his or her own preference) I don't want to have legs looking like lolipops. I want nice round ass and perky boobs. I don't want to look like a little boy.

    When I told those clerks that I lift weights, they looked at me as if I did everything that was wrong.
    I love Japan, but I really want to punch people who keep saying "you will lose weight if you stop eating. you will be beautiful" (this was an advice I really got when I was a teenager in Japan). "eat a piece of lettuce! run for hours! take a hot bath for more than an hour!!" Seriously, why da heck do people want to encourage craziness???

    Girls in Japan take care of themselves in any capacity, but never lift weights. There are billions of books about diet, such as apple diet, tangerine diets, japanese radish diet, dont ****ing eat anything but jelly at night diet. ( i am not even kidding and they are all written by some irresponsible moron nutritionist or dieticians) They spend a little money on the food so that they can eat less and buy more clothes. How ironic is that? People are fabricating themselves by wearing "nice" clothes and hiding how they really look. What I find most ridiculous is that all those skinny girls are never happy the way they look. they all say " I want to lose weight. I am fat" no wonder why those broscience books are mega popular in Japan.

    There is a big body weight discrimination in Japan. Ever since I went to college in the U.S., I found that really embarassing as an adult.
    However, nobody ever said the beauty comes with every size. There was a documentary about guys who fell in love with heavy girls. They were described as anti-social people for really frivolous reasons. WTF. do people want to perpetuate this kind of discrimination?

    To those clerks I said " you know what. I am super happy now. I never loved and valued my body and myself this much. I love my body. I think it's awesome no matter what" I'm hoping one day this ridiculous idea "skinny=beautiful, if you are not skinny you are Fxxd up" become obsolete.
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    Registered User agentnikita's Avatar
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    I definitely feel for you dealing with the body-weight discrimination in Japan. One of my girlfriends lives in Korea, and as independent and strong-willed as she is, she can't help but let the constant uninvited comments disturb her, and erode her self-esteem. It's a difficult thing to battle BUT I hope you stay strong in knowing that social ideas of beauty are constructs and change over the generations. It's probably evolutionarily conducive to the perpetuation of society but it's still a stupid thing in the sense that it just goes to show how most people are lemmings and will fall prey to whatever media/advertisements/etc instill in their heads.

    Anyway, the fact is that we each choose what makes us happy. We each choose our goals and you have accomplished more than most people in not only making goals and starting them, but continuing to achieve them. Lots of people stop after making their lists! Good luck to you and I'm definitely inspired by your posts!
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    Registered User Bunnyphant's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by agentnikita View Post
    I definitely feel for you dealing with the body-weight discrimination in Japan. One of my girlfriends lives in Korea, and as independent and strong-willed as she is, she can't help but let the constant uninvited comments disturb her, and erode her self-esteem. It's a difficult thing to battle BUT I hope you stay strong in knowing that social ideas of beauty are constructs and change over the generations. It's probably evolutionarily conducive to the perpetuation of society but it's still a stupid thing in the sense that it just goes to show how most people are lemmings and will fall prey to whatever media/advertisements/etc instill in their heads.

    Anyway, the fact is that we each choose what makes us happy. We each choose our goals and you have accomplished more than most people in not only making goals and starting them, but continuing to achieve them. Lots of people stop after making their lists! Good luck to you and I'm definitely inspired by your posts!
    Aw thank you so much for your kind words. My posts here are always big rants but venting here allows me to keep in perspective.
    People like you really inspire and motivate me. Again, thank you so much and I appreciate your kind words!
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  24. #24
    Registered User Bunnyphant's Avatar
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    Last night I had this late night meeting which lasted for hours. I had dinner really late because the meeting took longer than expected.
    I woke up this morning feeling bloated with some food still left in my stomach. I stepped on my scale feeling still gross and converted my weight from kg to lbs.
    I was not sure if I should be happy with my weight or not. I gained a pound in 2 weeks, that is the fact. However, I was pondering if it was a good thing or bad thing.
    I was not able to work out for about 10 days and I ate dinnner really late last night; which may have accounted for the weight gain but may have not.
    If not, it means my metabolism is not reovering as fast as I hope.

    You could see how I took this weight gain hard. I told my friend this and she said " LOL it's ok. it's neither good or bad. keep doing what you are doing"
    I don't know why I take numbers so hard that they disturb my mind. I always try to delve into my weight when they are just NUMBERS.
    My friend is right. I should keep in mind that it is neither good or bad that I weigh this much, because it is just the number my scale showed the moment I stepped on my scale.
    I will keep reminding myself that all I need to care for now is to follow the plan, keep doing what I'm doing and enjoy every single process I go through
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  25. #25
    Wackadoo Grifts's Avatar
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    I'd recheck this morning. Even if it is still up, I wouldn't worry too much. You aren't just putting on fat, muscle too.

    1 lb could be a lot of things, from the food you mentioned, to water retention from extra salt, female stuff. Some of it is sure to be muscle with the workouts you were doing. Try to get back to the gym and hit those weights!
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  26. #26
    Registered User Bunnyphant's Avatar
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    It took me years to say I love my body. I won't lie, I still feel insecured due to some frustration about my metabolism, settling down in Japan etc... However, I have almost zero insecurity which is related to or stemmed from my body.
    When I joined this forum I truely decided to take care of my body. First of all, I wanted to lose weight but going through hard times my goal changed to "take care of my body" from "lose weight".
    Once I started taking care of my body, I started to realize my personal issues I have avoided to face for such a long time. I could not ignore how I had no self-esteem, how I had distorted view of myself and how I always blamed and tortured myself any longer. I realized and truely believe taking care of your body ultimately leads to take care of "yourself". Dealing with your personal issues and your very own emotions is inevitable while you take care of your body.
    Our mind is so strong that it often conquers and dictates our body.

    That's why I just could not fathom a bunch of competitors' facebook status updates these days, especially this season.
    There was this female competitor who got a pro card this year; her status said something like
    "i got an hour plyo done this morning, went to work, did an hour long of arms, chests and abs circut during my 1 hour long lunch break! I'm enjoying my "me" time now at starbucks. I'm so excited to go back to gym for hiit!"

    .... WTF
    I know she wants to keep her pro card and feels compelled to workout to maintain her physique.
    However, is this excessive amount of workout healthy? Is she truely enjoying it? Is she really taking care of her body?
    From my personal experience, i don't believe losing weight/maintaining physique means taking care of body. Because one can lose weight or maintain physique in anyway, any capacity even though what they are doing is not healthy but detrimental.

    I think i will clean up my facebook "Likes". I used to unselfconciously like any fitness or competitor page hoping I would get positive influence.
    I don't think I need them anymore since I always found my motivation from my own achievement and positive words people gave in this forum
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    Registered User Bunnyphant's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Grifts View Post
    I'd recheck this morning. Even if it is still up, I wouldn't worry too much. You aren't just putting on fat, muscle too.

    1 lb could be a lot of things, from the food you mentioned, to water retention from extra salt, female stuff. Some of it is sure to be muscle with the workouts you were doing. Try to get back to the gym and hit those weights!
    Yes!! Every time I go to the gym, I rise as a star just because I'm the only female lifting heavy there LOL
    I love compound exerciese sooooo much
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    Registered User Bunnyphant's Avatar
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    Happy new year everyone!
    I wasn't able to train for a few days since the majorty of stores were closed for new years celebration.
    I also traveled but was able to find a local gold gym. It feels so nice to be on track!

    I have a good news too.
    I think my metabolism is recovering, FINALLY.
    I was so stoked when I found out that I only gained a half pound in a week. Before, I gained a pound each week.
    WOOOOT!!
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  29. #29
    Registered User Bunnyphant's Avatar
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    My health screening results

    My bone density was 110%!!(100% is the average of my age)
    My blood test was perfect so that the dr was mega suprised. I was so nervous to get a health screening done because of my prolonged history of eating disorder.
    I'm so glad I have been lifting weights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    P.S. Grifts, you were right for everything you said
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    Wackadoo Grifts's Avatar
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    Great news!
    www.squidoo.com/keto-diet

    Was 300+ lbs.
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    90 day XAT-7 and Cardio Igniter forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=146779723
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    Sugar Alcohols...Explained http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=151110953

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