Bulking/ cutting, how long should I do either?

[cyborg_seadog]

Ive never done a clean bulk so Im kinda excited for it, infact Ive never really lifted weights long enough consecutively to have enough time to do a bulk/cut/bulk/cut style of nutriton. Ive just got in the best shape I could then notice after a few months that my body wasnt changing and I was not getting any stronger so I would quit. Im a life long natural, I started when I was about 16. So my question is how long does a bulk/cut cycle last usually for a natural.
I started off about 5 months ago at 206lbs very fat with no muscle then I just started lifting weights and not really watching what a ate until about 2 months ago. Thats when I started eating 2000cal per day at 45%p 30%c 25%f. I was told to not cut longer than 3 months. what bodyfat% should I start bulking at? what bf% should i max out at during bulk and for how long. Thanks Im new to this bodybuilding for longer than 8 or 9 months in a row.

[DieHards77]

It all really depends on your goals. If your just trying to gain lean muscle, doing a contest prep, etc its all different. For just a general "off season" i usually do 1 month cut for every 3-4 months bulk. Sometimes I'll go longer on both regards, i.e. 6 months bulk for a 6-8 week cut. Its good to cycle back and forth ever so often to keep those gains somewhat lean

[ironwill2008]

what bodyfat% should I start bulking at? what bf% should i max out at during bulk and for how long. Thanks Im new to this bodybuilding for longer than 8 or 9 months in a row.

It's purely a matter of personal preference.

When the mirror doesn't show you what you want to see, make a change.

[SuffolkPunch]

Cut to 10-12%, bulk to no more than 15%, rinse, repeat

[cyborg_seadog]

Any in put from someone whos life long natural?

[cyborg_seadog]

15% gross

[ironwill2008]

Any in put from someone whos life long natural?

huh?

[cyborg_seadog]

I meant the 2nd post. your post poped up while I wrote that. very impressive for I life long natural though.GJ

[DieHards77]

Cut to 10-12%, bulk to no more than 15%, rinse, repeat

Any in put from someone whos life long natural?

I'm a life long natural... sooooo ..... Guess you already have your answer lol (check the forum signature) Be weary of anyone that states absolutes like SuffolkPunch, everyones body is different and absolutes have no place in bodybuilding.

[cyborg_seadog]

Calm down empty sleves.

[DieHards77]

Calm down empty sleves.

?? What

[cyborg_seadog]

EMPTY SLEEVES. your 212lbs with 17 inch arms, I dont think bodybuildings in your genes. no place in bodybuilding I just laugh at your juicers turtle shell stomachs when your not flexed and your estrogen sacks on your chest.

[DieHards77]

EMPTY SLEEVES. your 212lbs with 17 inch arms, I dont think bodybuildings in your genes. no place in bodybuilding I just laugh at your juicers turtle shell stomachs when your not flexed and your estrogen sacks on your chest.

1) I replied to this thread trying to help answer your question
2)


Very observant of updated timestamps aren't you

[auntAuntieBea]

Be weary of anyone that states absolutes like SuffolkPunch, everyones body is different and absolutes have no place in bodybuilding.

Actually, the 10% --> 15% --> 10% reco is a Lyle McDonald thing. As it pertains to naturals, it's as valid a path as any other (such as the 3:1 ratio that you use, a strategy discussed by Alan A).

bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html

"Males should be ~10-12% body fat before even considering going on any kind of ‘bulk’ ... When the trainee hits a body fat percentage of approximately 15% for men (24-27% for women), the mass gaining phase should end. How long this take will depend on the size of the person but realistically, a 170 pound male trainee with 10% body fat could gain 16 pounds (8 pounds fat, 8 pounds muscle) before hitting the 15% mark."

[DieHards77]

Actually, the 10% --> 15% --> 10% reco is a Lyle McDonald thing. As it pertains to naturals, it's as valid a path as any other (such as the 3:1 ratio discussed by Alan).

bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html

Just from my free thinking mind i really don't care who says it. As a rule of thumb, great, as a rule no thank you. My opinion of absolute statements goes far beyond weight training but wIthout going into the meso, ecto, endo, everybody has a different body type. Some people gain muscle at a lower bf % than others.

[cyborg_seadog]

ahh hes still got empty sleeves. If your gonna juice go till your liver shuts down or just a poser like the "absolutes." I just bodybuild so I can eat more and most people dont try and start s*** with me. plus the many health advantages

[auntAuntieBea]

Just from my free thinking mind i really don't care who says it. As a rule of thumb, great, as a rule no thank you. My opinion of absolute statements goes far beyond weight training but wIthout going into the meso, ecto, endo, everybody has a different body type. Some people gain muscle at a lower bf % than others.

How is a percentage-based "rule" any different than a time-based "rule" ... when really, either one are just guidelines that fit for a larger part of the population than not? Since you're "free-thinking mind" isn't planning on looking at the points of the strategy, the primary point is that for many folks cycling between 10-15% is sufficient for general bulking. There's no particular reason to go sub-10 and some people get affected hormonally as sub-10 dips deeper, thus negating the efficiency anyway. Plus-15%, some folks tend to accelerate fat accumulation. The range in the middle is something that -- in a general sense because you can't write for every individual case in an article -- works/can work for a decent majority.

Either strategy is probably fine for OP's purposes -- percentage-based (10-15-10), or time-ratio (3-4:1).

[DieHards77]

Lulz. How is a percentage-based "rule" any different than a time-based "rule" ... when really, either one are just guidelines that fit for a larger part of the population than not? Since you're "free-thinking mind" isn't planning on looking at the points of the strategy, the primary point is that for many folks cycling between 10-15% is sufficient for general bulking. There's no particular reason to go sub-10 and some people get affected hormonally as sub-10 dips deeper, thus negating the efficiency anyway. Plus-15%, some folks tend to accelerate fat accumulation. The range in the middle is something that -- in a general sense because you can't write for every individual case in an article -- works/can work for a decent majority.

Either strategy is probably fine for OP's purposes -- percentage-based, or time-ratio.

And i agree with you, 10-15% for most is generally a good place to sit in the off season. I never said it wasn't and I never told the OP to do what I do in the "time-base" scenario I described. If you reread what I wrote I said "I usually do.." ending with "Its good to cycle back and forth ever so often to keep those gains somewhat lean" as my final thought and guideline.
I was quoting suffolkpunch when I said be weary of absolutes as his was a you must do this style of response.

[determined4000]

It's purely a matter of personal preference.

When the mirror doesn't show you what you want to see, make a change.

this

If you are adding strength for power-lifting or reducing body fat for a photo shoot, your priorities will be different
If you are just an average joe, you may like to be lean and maintain close to 10%BF or you may feel weak and want to bulk until you ou reach a point where you are uncomfortable with the added body fat.
Personally I would suggest never going above 20% BF when bulking
Most people your age would be best served trying to cut and bulk between 8-15% BF once theyhave an acceptable amount of strength

[auntAuntieBea]

And i agree with you, 10-15% for most is generally a good place to sit in the off season. I never said it wasn't and I never told the OP to do what I do in the "time-base" scenario I described. If you reread what I wrote I said "I usually do.." ending with "Its good to cycle back and forth ever so often to keep those gains somewhat lean" as my final thought and guideline.
I was quoting suffolkpunch when I said be weary of absolutes as his was a you must do this style of response.

I haven't read Layne's take lately (been busy) ... does he have a third option, beyond the two already mentioned? Seems fair to have "The Big 3" (LM/AA/LN) represented.

[DieHards77]

I haven't read Layne's take lately (been busy) ... does he have a third option, beyond the two already mentioned? Seems fair to have "The Big 3" (LM/AA/LN) represented.

Can't say I know his views off the top of my head either, been quite busy myself to keep up on all their articles