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Thread: Runnin back

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    Registered User BigStewTheJew's Avatar
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    Runnin back

    In a offence that uses the fullback for blocking, passing and quite a bit of running. For you coaches out there, what weight/lifts/speed would you want on a fullback?
    If you need help with a sports training (preferably football) program for lifting, speed or agility hmu and I'll help you.



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    Originally Posted by BigStewTheJew View Post
    In a offence that uses the fullback for blocking, passing and quite a bit of running. For you coaches out there, what weight/lifts/speed would you want on a fullback?
    you are talking about High school....there are no ideal lifts #'s, height or weight. Just work hard every day at getting better and then just go out there and play. That is all you could do, and that is all you have control over.

    As blocking fullback, you don't need to be fast. So, there is one less thing you need to worry about. Always still good to implement some kind of speed training, but you don't need to focus all your time on it. Your main focus needs to be on blocking technique and footwork. That is more important than strength. Knowing what to do, how to do it and when to do it is far more important than strength and speed. But, secondly, focus on strenght/explosiveness so that you can make a solid block, sustain the block and open holes for the rb.
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    Toughness is really what your coach will look for. Sometimes the fullback is smaller than the tailback. Just need to the have the desire to block through the linebacker, and not settling for getting in his way.
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    Originally Posted by SDOptimist View Post
    you are talking about High school....there are no ideal lifts #'s, height or weight. Just work hard every day at getting better and then just go out there and play. That is all you could do, and that is all you have control over.

    As blocking fullback, you don't need to be fast. So, there is one less thing you need to worry about. Always still good to implement some kind of speed training, but you don't need to focus all your time on it. Your main focus needs to be on blocking technique and footwork. That is more important than strength. Knowing what to do, how to do it and when to do it is far more important than strength and speed. But, secondly, focus on strenght/explosiveness so that you can make a solid block, sustain the block and open holes for the rb.
    Our fullbacks don't block as much as most offensives. Ours get a minimum of 20 per game
    If you need help with a sports training (preferably football) program for lifting, speed or agility hmu and I'll help you.



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    Originally Posted by BigStewTheJew View Post
    Our fullbacks don't block as much as most offensives. Ours get a minimum of 20 per game
    Still, as a fullback, your main job is blocking. And as a fullback, they aren't expecting you to make big runs. They give you carries to get those tough yards on 3rd and short. Or to catch a swing pass out in the flats and pick up 5 or so yards. That is the role of a fullback in a pro style offense.
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    Originally Posted by BigStewTheJew View Post
    Our fullbacks don't block as much as most offensives. Ours get a minimum of 20 per game
    Do you run the wing-T?
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    At the high school level most coaches aren't starting the kid who benches or squats the most. They look first at desire and that scrappy kid that has the desire to hit hard. There other factors considered as well like knowledge and technique. Size wise it really depends on the size of the league A, AA, AAA, all the way up to five and six A in a few states but I would say on average 210 is nice and I between a 4.9-4.6 drastically depending on the school and the league they play in.
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    Everything- all lifts.. you need explosive power, and pop when you hit. Strength training in EVERY part of your body.

    I was a tailback, both kick returns, and free safety- clearly I had speed. Don't let anyone tell you (like one guy did) that fullbacks don't need speed. Hell, the fact you ARE a fullback means you have speed (at least appreciably more than most linemen).

    Really, there is no major muscle group I would not focus on as a fullback. Top to bottom. Neck to toes. You're a bitch beast. You're basically a lineman that carries a ball sometimes. Eat a lot, lift heavy, knock some frikkin heads hard.
    Nobody improves without trying. Period.

    Listen to your wisdom as you gain it. Rarely are things lost forever. Change is usually always possible. Second chances sometimes reveal better results than first chances. Always look to believe that you can and will be better. You're not done until you give up.

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    Originally Posted by BearLovesLuna View Post
    Everything- all lifts.. you need explosive power, and pop when you hit. Strength training in EVERY part of your body.

    I was a tailback, both kick returns, and free safety- clearly I had speed. Don't let anyone tell you (like one guy did) that fullbacks don't need speed. Hell, the fact you ARE a fullback means you have speed (at least appreciably more than most linemen).

    Really, there is no major muscle group I would not focus on as a fullback. Top to bottom. Neck to toes. You're a bitch beast. You're basically a lineman that carries a ball sometimes. Eat a lot, lift heavy, knock some frikkin heads hard.
    when HS kids think "speed", they think they need 4.4 speed. They don't. Not at Wr, not at RB, not at CB and especially not at FB. So what is your definition of speed? Anything under a 5.0 40 can be considered fast, especially as a fb. Of course everyone wants to get faster, so thats why I told this kid to keep working on speed, but it's not the most important thing as a fullback. heck, speed isn't the most important thing for any position.
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    Originally Posted by SDOptimist View Post
    when HS kids think "speed", they think they need 4.4 speed. They don't. Not at Wr, not at RB, not at CB and especially not at FB. So what is your definition of speed? Anything under a 5.0 40 can be considered fast, especially as a fb. Of course everyone wants to get faster, so thats why I told this kid to keep working on speed, but it's not the most important thing as a fullback. heck, speed isn't the most important thing for any position.
    I think it would be safe to say that there is not a single position in football where one is expected to carry the ball, that speed would increase your "value" as a player. There is no position on defense where increasing speed would not increase your value.

    While strength may be highly important for a lineman, you'll note that nearly every starting lineman in the NFL is faster than most high school track runners. Even at 260 lbs, most of them fly...

    As for being the "most important thing for any position", I think you'd find it pretty much number one on the list for kick returners. Most of which are or have been what? Running backs and receivers of some sort... which tells us a little bit about the importance of speed relative to positions.

    Steve Largent- awesome receiver? Yes. Great pattern runner? Yes. Fast? No (by NFL standards).

    Anomaly? Yes.
    Nobody improves without trying. Period.

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    Originally Posted by BearLovesLuna View Post
    I think it would be safe to say that there is not a single position in football where one is expected to carry the ball, that speed would increase your "value" as a player. There is no position on defense where increasing speed would not increase your value.

    While strength may be highly important for a lineman, you'll note that nearly every starting lineman in the NFL is faster than most high school track runners. Even at 260 lbs, most of them fly...

    As for being the "most important thing for any position", I think you'd find it pretty much number one on the list for kick returners. Most of which are or have been what? Running backs and receivers of some sort... which tells us a little bit about the importance of speed relative to positions.

    Steve Largent- awesome receiver? Yes. Great pattern runner? Yes. Fast? No (by NFL standards).

    Anomaly? Yes.
    Never said increasing speed wouldn't help you. But where a lot of kids make mistakes is when they think increasing speed is all they need to do. A full back learning how to block, and hold onto the ball and fight for extra yards is more important than how fast he could run. A wr who can run a good route, who is smart and who can make a catch is far more important than a wr who can just flat out run. What I am trying to say is that these high school kids think that they need to just increase their speed to be a better player. There is no correlation between speed and how good of a football player you are. I agree with what you said about largent. The same with jerry rice, the greatest wr ever. He was slow compared to his competition. He was a 4.7-4.8 guy, but got past deion sanders countless of time and made him look stupid. why? because he knew how to play the game, he knew how to run a route and deceive a CB. Doesnt matter how fast the db was, once jerry rice made you turn your hips the wrong way, you were done.

    Well of course a kick returners main priority is speed lol but we aren't talking about KR/PR. Yes they NEED speed. But you will also notice that these guys are bottom of the depth chart at the other positions. In the nfl, that is your job, nothing else. So yes, their main priority is to get faster. As long as they do that, it doesn't matter if they are the #5 wr or #4 cb. They are on the team for one thing.

    But we are talking about fullbacks. This kid is a 15 year old fullback in hs. Learning the game, working on foot drills, and working on blocking techniques is FAR more important than increasing his 40. And again, improving your footwork, technique and knowledge of the game is FAR more important than speed at any position. Does that mean DON'T work on speed? No, I never said that. I am just saying that it shouldn't be a main focus of yours, but you should still work on it. A lot of high school kids come on these boards and think they just need a better 40 to be a better player. That is so far from the truth. We also get a lot of hs kids on this board who think they are the best in the country and deserve a scholarship just because they run a 4.4-4.5. Your 40 has no translation into the type of player and how good you are on the field.

    I played hs and jc ball, then coached hs, then worked for arena football, then d-1 football and then the nfl. I've seen kids with all walks of life and with all different types of skill sets. The best and a most productive wr's I've seen were "slow" guys who knew how to run a route and come down with the catch. I knew a guy who ran the fastest 40 in the nfl combine as a wr, but he couldn't do anything in practice or the games because he thought speed was all he needed.

    In college, we had a fullback who was short and stocky, and to be honest probably could barely break a 5.0 40, but the guy was explosive and opened holes for the rb, and also made catches and fought for extra yards.
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    You guys would think 200 pounds or so would be good? More?
    If you need help with a sports training (preferably football) program for lifting, speed or agility hmu and I'll help you.



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    Originally Posted by BigStewTheJew View Post
    You guys would think 200 pounds or so would be good? More?
    there is no specific weight. How much do you weight now? and what is your bf?

    you shouldn't be aiming at a certain weight. You should be trying to cut fat and building muscle. Whatever weight that brings you to...who knows. But just adding weight for the heck of it won't make you a better player. And assuming most of it will be fat, it will just slow you down. So work on building muscle and cutting fat.
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    Trust me speed is important... Nothing more annoying then the tailback tripping over the fullback.... Slow ass lol
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    Originally Posted by BlitzNLift View Post
    Trust me speed is important... Nothing more annoying then the tailback tripping over the fullback.... Slow ass lol
    Re-read what I said. I never said speed wasn't important. I said there are more important things for a fullback than speed. And, you must not be a rb, because a lot of times when a RB trips over his blockers, it is because the rb didn't do his job by waiting and allowing the hole to open up. Also, what you are referring to is the fb's explosiveness and acceleration. Not, top end speed. Two different things. Again, re-read what I said. Never said speed wasn't important. But for a fullback to be too slow to lead block for a rb...that means he runs a 6.0 40 yard. LOL that doesn't happen. You don't need a 4.5-4.9 speed as a HIGH SCHOOL fullback. In most cases, if you run a 4.7, you are the fastest person on the field.

    You are 15 and still have a lot to learn about the game. Speed isn't the deciding factor to everything. There are so many other traits I would take over speed. Again, am I saying speed isn't important? No, I am not saying that, but it also depends on position. There isn't a single position instead of maybe kr/pr where speed is the top must have trait. Not a single one.

    This kid is a HIGH SCHOOL fullback. There are a handful of things more important than worrying what his 40 is. And again, this is hs, you guys are not in college. Quite thinking you need college numbers to be good in hs.
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    Originally Posted by SDOptimist View Post
    Re-read what I said. I never said speed wasn't important. I said there are more important things for a fullback than speed. And, you must not be a rb, because a lot of times when a RB trips over his blockers, it is because the rb didn't do his job by waiting and allowing the hole to open up. Also, what you are referring to is the fb's explosiveness and acceleration. Not, top end speed. Two different things. Again, re-read what I said. Never said speed wasn't important. But for a fullback to be too slow to lead block for a rb...that means he runs a 6.0 40 yard. LOL that doesn't happen. You don't need a 4.5-4.9 speed as a HIGH SCHOOL fullback. In most cases, if you run a 4.7, you are the fastest person on the field.

    You are 15 and still have a lot to learn about the game. Speed isn't the deciding factor to everything. There are so many other traits I would take over speed. Again, am I saying speed isn't important? No, I am not saying that, but it also depends on position. There isn't a single position instead of maybe kr/pr where speed is the top must have trait. Not a single one.

    This kid is a HIGH SCHOOL fullback. There are a handful of things more important than worrying what his 40 is. And again, this is hs, you guys are not in college. Quite thinking you need college numbers to be good in hs.
    I'd rather shoot for college numbers then for high school numbers, gotta be the best around, not just in your high school yeah know? And we got quite a few guys running under a 4'7, all skinny, unmuscular, benching 1 plate or less / squatting 1.5 plate worth or less guys
    If you need help with a sports training (preferably football) program for lifting, speed or agility hmu and I'll help you.



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    Originally Posted by SDOptimist View Post
    Never said increasing speed wouldn't help you. But where a lot of kids make mistakes is when they think increasing speed is all they need to do.
    Who the hell does that? Who, ever, who is expecting to be competitive in ANYTHING and be a starter, thinks that?

    Nobody.

    You keep confusing this making it an all or nothing argument.

    "Hey coach... All these blocking and ball handling routines sound cool, but all I need is speed, so I am going to go work on that..."


    Rice and Largent were in the 4.6-8 range, depending on how they are timed. The best ever are around 4.2-3. 4.6 might be "slow" compared to some, but the margin is pretty small, meaning even being two of the slowest receivers, they are not really "slow" compared to the rest of the world.

    If you are going to be a primary ball handler in football, you will need speed. Period. Why? Cause everyone is trying to catch you. The more speed, the better. Is that all you need? Maybe, but probably not.

    But without it, you can pretty much just about forget being a primary ball handler.
    Nobody improves without trying. Period.

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    Originally Posted by BearLovesLuna View Post
    Who the hell does that? Who, ever, who is expecting to be competitive in ANYTHING and be a starter, thinks that?

    Nobody.

    You keep confusing this making it an all or nothing argument.

    "Hey coach... All these blocking and ball handling routines sound cool, but all I need is speed, so I am going to go work on that..."


    Rice and Largent were in the 4.6-8 range, depending on how they are timed. The best ever are around 4.2-3. 4.6 might be "slow" compared to some, but the margin is pretty small, meaning even being two of the slowest receivers, they are not really "slow" compared to the rest of the world.

    If you are going to be a primary ball handler in football, you will need speed. Period. Why? Cause everyone is trying to catch you. The more speed, the better. Is that all you need? Maybe, but probably not.

    But without it, you can pretty much just about forget being a primary ball handler.
    You are right, but this kid isn't a primary ball handler. He is a fullback, not a tailback. So, again....for HIM as a FULLBACK, there are a few other things more important than running a fast 40.

    There are a lot of intangible factors that play a role in how good you perform in a game. If the rb position was as simple as taking the fastest guy, handing the ball off to him and just tell him to run...then anybody can be an nfl player. It's not as simple as that. There is more to be be a great ball carrier than just running faster than the defense. The defense isn't going to always be behind you. Ya if the line of scrimmage was set up as the defense being behind and they had to catch up with you, then ya speed is all you need lol. Speed isn't going to help you break a tackle, fight for extra yards, hold onto the buy, work on your awareness of people on the field and where to step next in order to dodge a tackler or find an open hole to run through. That stuff has absolutely nothing to do with speed. Ever wondered why olympic sprinters always get invited to camps but never make it past training camp? lol
    Last edited by SDOptimist; 11-09-2012 at 11:11 AM.
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    Originally Posted by BigStewTheJew View Post
    In a offence that uses the fullback for blocking, passing and quite a bit of running. For you coaches out there, what weight/lifts/speed would you want on a fullback?
    If you're 5' 9", you should probably keep your weight under 200 pounds, unless you naturally have a very broad build. Genetically, you aren't going to be able to carry any more lean mass than this unless you're on the juice. Lift to get stronger and your speed will increase with your strength increase. Your coaches aren't going to care much about what you lift in the weight room, only how fast you run on the field.
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    Originally Posted by BigStewTheJew View Post
    I'd rather shoot for college numbers then for high school numbers, gotta be the best around, not just in your high school yeah know? And we got quite a few guys running under a 4'7, all skinny, unmuscular, benching 1 plate or less / squatting 1.5 plate worth or less guys
    lol of course shoot for college numbers. Shoot for your best. But a lot of kids think that they need those college numbers in order to be good in high school. You don't even always need college numbers to get a scholarship. You just need to potential and the raw talent to reach those numbers a year or two into your college career.

    And ya 4.7's is fast for high school. Like I said, those 4.7 kids in hs will be one of the fastest on the field. But they aren't going to make it past high school if they don't start working on other things than just speed.

    So my advice to you: Stop worrying about numbers. There is not specific bench, squat, vert, or 40 you need to become a good football player. There is no special mix of those that you need to reach in order to get a scholarship. You become a good player by working hard every single day at getting better. And a football player becomes great by how he performs on the field. And in a lot of cases, your speed, bench, vert, etc play a very very little role in that. But, you are young and you will eventually learn that. Hopefully sooner than later. All you need to worry about is busting your butt at getting better. Work hard in the weight room and work hard on the practice field. Learn the fundamentals of the game and your position. Learn the techniques and work on your footwork and blocking techniques. so, if you don't reach a certain 40, are you going to stop playing because you think your 40 sucks? A lot of it is genetics. You have to deal with what you are given. The second you believe someone you are too slow or too small, then you might as well quite and focus on school. I've seen 4.7 guys burn 4.3 guys. Goes to show you that theres more to it than just speed. Maybe in HS if you just have pure speed, you will be able to dominate, but college ball is a whole different sport and nfl is completely different than college. I've seen it with my own eyes. Seen guys from all walks of life and different types of skill sets. I would take a 4.8 wr who can run a great route and catch a ball than a 4.3 wr who thought his speed would carry him the whole way and slacked off in the weight room and his footwork for route running.

    You are 15 man, there was a lot I didn't know at that age. There are a lot of things I wish I knew. Just go out there and have fun. Put together a good workout program and speed training program. Bust your butt and devote yourself in the offseason and eat right. That is all you have control over. Also work on your footwork. Buy a ladder, and do drills along side your speed training. Also do a lot of research online about blocking techniques..for FB's and OL. Go out in your backyard and practice those techniques so that you get the form down. When it comes time for practice, pay attention, get all the reps you can get, do exactly what your coaches tell you to do.
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    Originally Posted by BearLovesLuna View Post
    Who the hell does that? Who, ever, who is expecting to be competitive in ANYTHING and be a starter, thinks that?
    Oh and you would actually be pretty surprised by these high school kids. Everybody is infatuated with the 40 and think that a fast 40 means you are a good football player and a slow 40 means you are a bad football player. it isn't like back when you played. Times change, things change and high school kids are different. They believe the media when all they talk about is the 40 yard dash.

    but yes, I agree that there is very little difference between a 4.3 and a 4.7
    Last edited by SDOptimist; 11-09-2012 at 11:01 AM.
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    Originally Posted by SDOptimist View Post
    You are right, but this kid isn't a primary ball handler. He is a fullback, not a tailback. So, again....for HIM as a FULLBACK, there are a few other things more important than running a fast 40.mp?
    You need to go back and read his original post. You will find the words "and quite a bit of RUNNING".

    I believe that makes him a primary ball handler.
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    Originally Posted by BearLovesLuna View Post
    You need to go back and read his original post. You will find the words "and quite a bit of RUNNING".

    I believe that makes him a primary ball handler.
    The tailback is still the primary runner, he is the secondary. Yes, he will be getting carries and catches based on his offensive philosophy. But, he will also be used to run block and pass block. That will be his primary job. Carrying the ball will be his secondary duty. Unless they run the option, an offense will not have a fb in their package if they were just going to use him as a primary ball carrier, only the triple option does that. the OP never specified the type of offense he is running. But, at best his duties are 50/50.....50% ball carry/50% run & pass blocker. His main duty as a fb is blocking. His secondary duty as a fb is carrying the ball. If he was the main ball carrier, he wouldn't be a fb, he would be a tailback. But, from the information he has given us so far, he is a fb who gets a good amount of carries. Therefore, his HS is most likely running a version of the west coast offense. Which means that the fb is a blocker, but will get asked to take some carries and make some catches out of the flat. He is not expected to run for 100+ yards a game, that is the tailback's expectations. The fullback's priority to to lead block for the rb, pass block for the qb and every few plays keep the defense guessing by taking some carries and catching some ball out in the flats. Those are the duties of a fullback in any and every offense except for the triple option. Most offenses these days have gotten rid of the fb. Most nfl teams don't carry a fb. A lot of colleges do still because they run a pro style offense which uses the I-form.
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    Originally Posted by SDOptimist View Post
    The tailback is still the primary runner, he is the secondary. Yes, he will be getting carries and catches based on his offensive philosophy. But, he will also be used to run block and pass block. That will be his primary job. Carrying the ball will be his secondary duty. Unless they run the option, an offense will not have a fb in their package if they were just going to use him as a primary ball carrier, only the triple option does that. the OP never specified the type of offense he is running. But, at best his duties are 50/50.....50% ball carry/50% run & pass blocker. His main duty as a fb is blocking. His secondary duty as a fb is carrying the ball. If he was the main ball carrier, he wouldn't be a fb, he would be a tailback. But, from the information he has given us so far, he is a fb who gets a good amount of carries. Therefore, his HS is most likely running a version of the west coast offense. Which means that the fb is a blocker, but will get asked to take some carries and make some catches out of the flat. He is not expected to run for 100+ yards a game, that is the tailback's expectations. The fullback's priority to to lead block for the rb, pass block for the qb and every few plays keep the defense guessing by taking some carries and catching some ball out in the flats. Those are the duties of a fullback in any and every offense except for the triple option. Most offenses these days have gotten rid of the fb. Most nfl teams don't carry a fb. A lot of colleges do still because they run a pro style offense which uses the I-form.

    Seriously???? Wow
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    Originally Posted by BearLovesLuna View Post
    Seriously???? Wow
    Yah seriously.

    He is a fullback that gets carries. So having some agility and speed is good. Also as a fullback, his responsibility is to block. And for the most part, that is their primary role. No offense has their fullback being the main ball carrier over the tailback lol. But again, the OP needs to be more specific about the offense his school runs.

    He needs to work on strength, speed and blocking techniques. His role as a fullback is to block, but also be prepared to get the ball a few times each drive.
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    Speed is good but not necessary for fullback. Squat heavy, work your shoulders hard (power cleans all day) and deadlift and such. You need to be able to block THROUGH men, not hold them in place. It's all about weight and strength.
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    Originally Posted by BearLovesLuna View Post
    Seriously???? Wow
    educated response bud! Basically your way of stepping down from the argument.

    SD is right. Regardless of how many carries a fullback gets, he is on the field to block. A fullback isn't the primary ball carrier in any offense, not even the option.
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    hey bud , you cant put a number in your head, you have to be at whatever weight you can proform best at. You should definatly be trying to put on mass, but dont sacrifice speed. And to be honest with you, work on technique more then anything
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    Originally Posted by iballhard View Post
    hey bud , you cant put a number in your head, you have to be at whatever weight you can proform best at. You should definatly be trying to put on mass, but dont sacrifice speed. And to be honest with you, work on technique more then anything
    agreed. The last sentence especially. Technique will make or break most players regardless of his/her other abilities.
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    You need to build strength and explosiveness. You need to be fast for 5-15yds, which is pretty much saying that you just need to be quick. The mental aspect is probably the most important. Be tough and don't settle for anything less than a beat down on the other guy. Work on footwork and exploding out to make blocks. Do agility work like ladders and cone drills. Get strong in the compound lifts, work on flexibility, and do plenty of plyometrics. If you need a template or routine, let me know. Adding in some strongman stuff like tire flips keg loads/tosses could be a great help. Don't do any ridiculous distance running, 300yd shuttles, or gassers. Those have no carryover. Do 10-30yd sprints and add in some resisted sprints (hills, bleachers, sled, tire drag, prowler). Joe DeFranco wrote a football conditioning article a while back.

    Get bigger if need be, but you really need to focus on exploding out, being aggressive, and technique.
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