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Thread: Obama WINS!!

  1. #181
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    Originally Posted by cowboybiker View Post
    What's funny is that they were dead-on with their predictions and were well before CNN, even to Karl Rove's dismay.
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  2. #182
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    Originally Posted by SP1966 View Post
    The biggest problem is that the distance between the two parties philosophically is so great that compromise becomes almost impossible. I'm sure you'll find both parties are willing to compromise to a point, but because of the gulf between them those two point are no where near meeting. There comes a point where if you compromise to much you may just as well endorse the other parties position in full. IMO this is in very large part to our modern society and the ability to market to people, in this case that ability is being used to divide us into many subgroups and play those differences against each other. The fact that these election are so close tells you that one side isn't winning the majority of the minds, but the media is doing an exceptional job of dividing us against each other and of course passing the blame.
    Common sense will tell you they have to meet somewhere in the middle, the problem is, it appears each party is prejudice to the other based on plain ole stupidity and stubbornness.

    The more I read into it, the more I am convinced.
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  3. #183
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    Originally Posted by bodyhard View Post
    Common sense will tell you they have to meet somewhere in the middle, the problem is, it appears each party is prejudice to the other based on plain ole stupidity and stubbornness.

    The more I read into it, the more I am convinced.
    I view it differently. Necessity should dictate that they meet in the middle when they must and the rest of the time they can bicker all they want and get nothing through. The stalemates are a double edged sword. They protect us from needless legislative pet bullsh*t but at the same time when things get too petty it prevents necessary actions. Where true common sense fits into the equation I can't say but I don't ever rely on common sense at that (or most any) level as its definition seems to depend on the prejudices of the individual.
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  4. #184
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    Originally Posted by bodyhard View Post
    Common sense will tell you they have to meet somewhere in the middle, the problem is, it appears each party is prejudice to the other based on plain ole stupidity and stubbornness.

    The more I read into the more I am convinced.
    The parties used to be like this: A_|_B

    In that case yes the parties were able to meet in the middle like you say and it was generally good for the country.

    Today it is more along these lines: A___|_B

    In this case if party B agrees to meet in the middle then they are in effect allowing the country to be moved in the direction of party A and not simply to the middle. Compromise only works when the two parties attempting to compromise are in close proximity to each other.

    As to which party is A vs. which is B you will get very different opinions on that!
    "However widespread the desire to be free, it is wholly different from a desire to live in a society where others are free."

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  5. #185
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    Originally Posted by mslman71 View Post
    I view it differently. Necessity should dictate that they meet in the middle when they must and the rest of the time they can bicker all they want and get nothing through. The stalemates are a double edged sword. They protect us from needless legislative pet bullsh*t but at the same time when things get too petty it prevents necessary actions. Where true common sense fits into the equation I can't say but I don't ever rely on common sense at that (or most any) level as its definition seems to depend on the prejudices of the individual.
    I say common sense over necessity because it is pretty clear their arguments are moronic to say the least.

    If the end result was truly how much better we can make this country and not solely on their beliefs as a whole, then I would say meet in the middle out of necessity.
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    Originally Posted by bodyhard View Post
    I say common sense over necessity because it is pretty clear their arguments are moronic to say the least.

    If the end result was truly how much better we can make this country and not solely on their beliefs as a whole, then I would say meet in the middle out of necessity.
    But people disagree not only on how to make the country better but what defines better, most of them entirely convinced their way is the right way.
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  7. #187
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    Originally Posted by SP1966 View Post
    The parties used to be like this: A_|_B

    In that case yes the parties were able to meet in the middle like you say and it was generally good for the country.

    Today it is more along these lines: A___|_B

    In this case if party B agrees to meet in the middle then they are in effect allowing the country to be moved in the direction of party A and not simply to the middle. Compromise only works when the two parties attempting to compromise are in close proximity to each other.

    As to which party is A vs. which is B you will get very different opinions on that!
    I don't know where we stand in your illustration (just getting into this) but I can say this, when referring to meeting in the middle. The word "middle" is the point of reference to where both parties would give a little to get a little, more along the lines of where we should be oppose to where we are currently at.

    That is why my original statement was "throw everything out and start a new" Surely intelligent mature adults can come to a conclusion that would benefit everyone.
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  8. #188
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    Originally Posted by mslman71 View Post
    But people disagree not only on how to make the country better but what defines better, most of them entirely convinced their way is the right way.
    Exactly my point.
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  9. #189
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    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    Ok i'll bite.... are you *seriously* comparing managing a "branch" to a World Economic Crisis, recovering from trillions of debt from credit default swaps?
    Maybe not the same "thing," but it is the same principle.

    Point is, no matter what situation you inherit, pointing fingers at the person who left it for you won't fix it. And pointing fingers four years later is not an excuse for the failure to fix it.
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    Originally Posted by bodyhard View Post
    Exactly my point.

    And why it is impossible for both sides, literally being polar opposites at this point, each equally insistent that their way is the right way, to be right. Oh, they have their reasons, usually defined in terms of what's intrinsically wrong with the people on the other side, but that's all a load of horse-****. Case in point, a Facebook feed from a friend of mine:

    "LAST NIGHT HATE LOST.
    ODIOUS PEOPLE LOST.
    UGLINESS LOST.
    LIARS LOST.
    RACISM LOST."

    And this is from an otherwise 'normal' person. WTF? **** like this bounces back and forth everywhere. As far as I'm concerned if this is how people think then I'll fight for gridlock and inactions until my last breath.
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  13. #193
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    Originally Posted by TheRock08 View Post
    I apologize to all of you experiencing election fatigue. I also apologize for contributing more to said fatigue. But know this: I am not gloating on the outcome of the election.

    And I am a Democrat.

    But I have been openly critical of the president, and I do believe he is out of touch with many facets of American life. With my vote, I helped President Obama keep his job. But he has disappointed me, raising campaign funds in the billions while so many live paycheck to paycheck, campaigning days after a hurricane that crippled the east coast.

    Yet, I have supported him because of my political science background I know that you cannot repair an economy in four years. Probably not even 8. But I support his plans.

    But I'm also going to challenge him, in these next four years, to get to know the country he truly represents.

    For those of you who jump on your sociopolitical soapboxes and speak of the "lazy" and those "on welfare". Well, they voted too. If you check the numbers, a lot of them voted Romney. Here's what else you'll find...

    A lot of the wealthy voted for Obama, too.

    So you can't simply say that the lazy, the Blacks, the Hispanics all voted for Obama and the rich, white, affluent voted Romney because it didn't work that way.
    Good post, Rock. Hope you hang around here.
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    Originally Posted by TheRock08 View Post
    I apologize to all of you experiencing election fatigue. I also apologize for contributing more to said fatigue. But know this: I am not gloating on the outcome of the election.

    And I am a Democrat.

    But I have been openly critical of the president, and I do believe he is out of touch with many facets of American life. With my vote, I helped President Obama keep his job. But he has disappointed me, raising campaign funds in the billions while so many live paycheck to paycheck, campaigning days after a hurricane that crippled the east coast.

    Yet, I have supported him because of my political science background I know that you cannot repair an economy in four years. Probably not even 8. But I support his plans.

    But I'm also going to challenge him, in these next four years, to get to know the country he truly represents.

    For those of you who jump on your sociopolitical soapboxes and speak of the "lazy" and those "on welfare". Well, they voted too. If you check the numbers, a lot of them voted Romney. Here's what else you'll find...

    A lot of the wealthy voted for Obama, too.

    So you can't simply say that the lazy, the Blacks, the Hispanics all voted for Obama and the rich, white, affluent voted Romney because it didn't work that way.
    Some good points. Although correct me if I'm wrong but campaign funding ridiculousness was more a result of Citizens United and Super Packs no? And once it's legal for one side to do it, the other has no choice but to.
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    After some further thought, I think the Republican party as it is currently is dead. The "rep" is old, white, warmongering, rich fuddyduddies out for themselves. They cowtow about the Reagan years, yet a huge percentage of the voting populace wasn't alive during that era, nor do they care anything about Reagan. Alienating voters with fantical religious zealotry, "God's will if a woman is raped" wtf.... If Repbulicans merely move to the middle, then there's scant little to differentiate them from Dem's. There's got to be a play they can make, and it needs to come soon.
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  16. #196
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    Originally Posted by drudixon View Post
    After some further thought, I think the Republican party as it is currently is dead. The "rep" is old, white, warmongering, rich fuddyduddies out for themselves. They cowtow about the Reagan years, yet a huge percentage of the voting populace wasn't alive during that era, nor do they care anything about Reagan. Alienating voters with fantical religious zealotry, "God's will if a woman is raped" wtf.... If Repbulicans merely move to the middle, then there's scant little to differentiate them from Dem's. There's got to be a play they can make, and it needs to come soon.
    They had this forward thinking consultant named Michael Steele but his ideas didnt seem to be popular as the lipton party took over.
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  17. #197
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    Originally Posted by drudixon View Post
    After some further thought, I think the Republican party as it is currently is dead. The "rep" is old, white, warmongering, rich fuddyduddies out for themselves. They cowtow about the Reagan years, yet a huge percentage of the voting populace wasn't alive during that era, nor do they care anything about Reagan. Alienating voters with fantical religious zealotry, "God's will if a woman is raped" wtf.... If Repbulicans merely move to the middle, then there's scant little to differentiate them from Dem's. There's got to be a play they can make, and it needs to come soon.
    At some point the party will have to change its stands on social issues if they want to win elections. The world is changing, and younger generations are increasingly tolerant on social issues. I don't think the Republicans should moderate their views on taxes and spending, but it will be harder and harder to win elections if they stick to their views on gay rights, censorship, etc.
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    Originally Posted by m314 View Post
    At some point the party will have to change its stands on social issues if they want to win elections. The world is changing, and younger generations are increasingly tolerant on social issues. I don't think the Republicans should moderate their views on taxes and spending, but it will be harder and harder to win elections if they stick to their views on gay rights, censorship, etc.
    They could always move back toward actually being conservative, that is, toward the Libertarians.
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    Originally Posted by SP1966 View Post
    There is really only one other choice, and that would be to engage the minority communities directly which the Republican party has been ignoring for far to long. Thats not to say they need to moderate their positions, but they do need to reach out to the many very conservative people in those communities that do not currently see them as an option.
    Here is why I am pessimistic about this option. On a number of issues, minority populations largely agree with conservatives on many issues (e.g. things like abortion, traditional marriage, etc.), but those issues are not the ones that matter in terms of their voting. They have long been convinced by the media and lefties that the republican agenda is aimed at reducing them to second class citizens. Of course it is ludicrous, but how many times have you heard it repeated that cracking down on illegal immigration is tantamount to racism and ethnic cleansing in the US? They have been well-propagandized, and reaching out to them about points of agreement is likely going to have little to no impact -- because that is not how many of them vote. I hate to say it, but the republican party is screwed IMO. They should have won this election handily ... Remember what Reagan did to Carter in 1980? Obama basically took a trillion dollars and made a big bonfire out of it in a sh!tty economy...and he STILL got re-elected. Times are different now, and it is only going to get worse for the Republican party. We will remain a very divided country, and it does not bode well IMO that such divisions are drawn so sharply along racial lines.
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    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    They had this forward thinking consultant named Michael Steele but his ideas didnt seem to be popular as the lipton party took over.
    Steele was viewed more moderately when he was Lt. Gov here. When he became the senate candidate, he seemed to have to move a little more right. He lost his 2006 campaign (also a black candidate who lost the black vote to a white democrat).

    Personally, as a black dem who has been critical of both parties at times, I think Romney had to move too far to the right in order to win his parties nomination. If the electorate continues to move in the direction we've seen the last two presidential elections, then the GOP imo should better re-define themselves to bring in the newer and younger populace. I believe both major parties have good and bad parts. It just seems they are both stubborn to compromise.

    I don't want to see another 2-4 years of gridlock or mandates in Congress.
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    Originally Posted by Karl_Hungus View Post
    Here is why I am pessimistic about this option. On a number of issues, minority populations largely agree with conservatives on many issues (e.g. things like abortion, traditional marriage, etc.), but those issues are not the ones that matter in terms of their voting. They have long been convinced by the media and lefties that the republican agenda is aimed at reducing them to second class citizens.
    Exactly. I am a Catholic in a predomantly Hispanic population. You would think that they, being Catholic as well, would vote consrvative, but sadly this is not the case.
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    Originally Posted by Karl_Hungus View Post
    Here is why I am pessimistic about this option. On a number of issues, minority populations largely agree with conservatives on many issues (e.g. things like abortion, traditional marriage, etc.), but those issues are not the ones that matter in terms of their voting. They have long been convinced by the media and lefties that the republican agenda is aimed at reducing them to second class citizens. Of course it is ludicrous, but how many times have you heard it repeated that cracking down on illegal immigration is tantamount to racism and ethnic cleansing in the US? They have been well-propagandized, and reaching out to them about points of agreement is likely going to have little to no impact -- because that is not how many of them vote. I hate to say it, but the republican party is screwed IMO. They should have won this election handily ... Remember what Reagan did to Carter in 1980? Obama basically took a trillion dollars and made a big bonfire out of it in a sh!tty economy...and he STILL got re-elected. Times are different now, and it is only going to get worse for the Republican party. We will remain a very divided country, and it does not bode well IMO that such divisions are drawn so sharply along racial lines.
    So minorities only chose Obama because they were tricked? Those silly minorities.

    Originally Posted by so-tex View Post
    Exactly. I am a Catholic in a predomantly Hispanic population. You would think that they, being Catholic as well, would vote consrvative, but sadly this is not the case.
    Because every hispanic is Catholic, or because every Catholic is republican?
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  23. #203
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    So-TEK and KARL:

    the reason why issues such as Abortion and traditional marriage did not keep Catholics from voting for Obama, is because those issues are the LEAST IMPORTANT issues out there....

    you are making the assumption that "all" Catholics even CARE about these issues, which is far from the case....

    in fact, you are also making the assumption that all Catholics even PRACTICE Catholicism to begin with!!!

    People talke about the silent majority? Well, I will tell you the TRUE silent majority: it is the majority of Catholics that don't really adhere to the religion strictly, and for good reasons...

    the Catholics that REALLY care intensely about these issues, are actually in the minority, in the Catholic religion...

    not talking right or wrong here, please, just telling it like it is....Catholics no longer vote in one main type of group anymore, as in many years past....

    the stranglehold that the clergy had on the mentality of practicing Catholics is long gone for the majority of us....

    again, not making a judgement here, just relating how it is out there these days....
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  24. #204
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    Originally Posted by Bodyhard
    Why not just speak your mind to what he said directly to him, or simply ignore it and keep it moving?

    Again not trying to argue here John, I respect you and how you always handle yourself on the boards, but this reporting stuff just seems beneath you man.
    Originally Posted by eomrat View Post
    Odd justification.

    Guys: let me just try to explain this one more time: PLEASE, keep in mind, that I run a forum like this, and have been doing so for the last 15 years or so....

    as an owner/mod, the last thing you want to have on your forum is people starting flame wars about issues as sensitive as racism...

    also, another thing, when you are a mod, you get deluged with PMs from people complaining, when such a post remains up on the forum....

    dealing with these situations is completely different when you are the host, and the paying host, I might add, and there is a certain amount of pressure from the public out there using your forum that you have to heed....

    sorry to sidetrack the thread....
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  25. #205
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    Eh....
    Just the shiniest of 2 turds.
    see, THIS is what I am talking about...you can't tolerate this kind of bullchit....I am out of this thread...

    and YOU, JOHN, of all people, should be more sensitive to blatant racism....
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  26. #206
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    The Republicans have not ran a good candidate in years. When I saw Obama's speach as a Senator at the Democratic convention, I turned to my wife and said, "They're going to groom this guy to run in a few years." The Republicans need to dig thier heads out of thier asses and pick better and start grooming someone NOW. 71% of Latinos voted for Obama. Rubio would've been a better VP choice. My main thing is how biased the Lame Stream media is. If a fraction of this stuff happened during the Bush years (Who rarely took the media to task or fought back, which he later admitted he regretted.) they'd of shredded him. An Attorney General under investigation and they let him stall for over 10 months under threat of a subpoena before they actually do anything? In that timeframe, the whistleblower gets fired, the bastards at the top get reassigned to better jobs and the media whistles and looks the other way as Border guards get shot and 1,000's of Mexicans get gunned down. Libya? What Libya thing? Someone dropped the ball and, well I guess, some Americans got attacked and dies. Some posturing and ass-covering, and we can all just move along. At the last election, our troops overseas didn't get thier absentee ballots in time to have thier votes count. Harumph, harumph, "WE have to fix this problem!" Fast forward to this election, and a lot of thier votes did nnot get counted again. One unit actually got thier absentee ballots 4 weeks before the election, they got passed out, and before anyone had a chance to fill them out, they were told , "there is a problem with the ballots, turn them back in." They never got replacement ballots. IN 4 WEEKS? No media coverage on that, but screw them, they're only over there putting thier lives on the line. So in those 4 years, the US governement and the world's best Army couldn't figure out how to get ballots over there in time, but we will have "Early" voting and "If you are in line after the polls close, we'll still count your vote." in this country? Meantime, it's somehow racist to ask someone to show thier ID to vote in this country, so we won't ask. Do those same people have to show any ID to buy cigarettes, booze, get a driver's license, get benifits, check into a hospital, etc?
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    Bush (NOT a favorite of mine, BTW) tried several times to get the mortgage system under control, but Barney Frank & Friends put an ultimatim on the banks that they had to make those bad loans, then those loans got "Bundled" and away we went with the housing market crashing. Then who gets put in charge of overseeing that it never happens again and to put procedures in place? Barney Frank, with much praise from Obama! The fox guarding the henhouse. You can't even make it up. Again, the media whistles. The Stimulus. A huge tome that nobody had time to read because we have to pass it, and pass it NOW! Or as Nancy Pelosi said, "We have to pass it to see what's in it." WHAT!?! Wait a minute, who WROTE it? NOBODY KNOWS? WTF? Anyone who has dealt with the government knows that there is no way in hell that thing was written in a short timespan and NOBODY knows what's in it. It'd take the government 5 months, 3 comittees, and several debates to change the word "Doctor" to "Dr." on a damn form. I call major BULL**** on that. That Stimulus was written well in advance, printed up and ready to roll out without our "Representatives" even knowing a thing about it. OK, so who the F is running things? So much of that money got wasted that it's incredible. Speaking of wasted, the Solar Energy companies that got 100's of millions of tax dollars and went under. Not just Solindra. That was just the tip of the iceberg. Research and see how many others went under also. The waste and corruption will blow your mind. On &on &on. I don't care what party you're in, if you're not concerned about stuff like this, then I don't know what else to say. There's SO much more, but much like Clinton going on SNL and playing his sax, Obama can just go on "The View" and half of America is glazed over. Funny how the big shot late night comediens never went hard on Obama either.
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  28. #208
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    Originally Posted by 62Wolf View Post
    Speaking of wasted, the Solar Energy companies that got 100's of millions of tax dollars and went under. Not just Solindra. That was just the tip of the iceberg. Research and see how many others went under also. The waste and corruption will blow your mind.
    Yes, you should research. The government actually did a great job in terms of where it invested money. Much, MUCH better in fact than Romney's own Bain Capitol.

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  29. #209
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    Anyways, The left is celebrating and right is crying. No surprise there. It would be the opposite had Romney won. The GOP needs to pull up it's big boy pants and get it's party straightened out and into the modern world. Once that happens they will be a force to be reckoned with. The really polarizing issues are the social ones. Gay rights, women's rights, abortion, etc. There are a MASSIVE amount of people who consider themselves social liberals but fiscal conservatives and those people typically vote Democrat in large part due to what they feel is a socially moral obligation.
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  30. #210
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    Originally Posted by nixter View Post
    Anyways, The left is celebrating and right is crying. No surprise there. It would be the opposite had Romney won. The GOP needs to pull up it's big boy pants and get it's party straightened out and into the modern world. Once that happens they will be a force to be reckoned with. The really polarizing issues are the social ones. Gay rights, women's rights, abortion, etc. There are a MASSIVE amount of people who consider themselves social liberals but fiscal conservatives and those people typically vote Democrat in large part due to what they feel is a socially moral obligation.
    Got news for you -- Elections are not won or lost on the basis of gay rights and abortion.
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