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  1. #1
    Registered User fraherg's Avatar
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    How do you get big

    Hi Guys
    I have a quick question that I have been pondering, I am 40 and have a good diet and know my calories to maintain and bulk and have done Kris Gethins 12wk trainer and am looking at his DTP course as well, however my question is how do you get a decent size, there are some guys in my gym who's arms are huge however I watch them train and in all honesty I dont see them pushing weights that are that are massively heavier than mine, I am wondering if maybe there is something I am missing? When i watch bodybuilders train on Youtube or on films etc the weights they use are seriously heavy, but when I watch the guys in my gym, they have a decent size to them and dont seem to lift massively heavy weights, I am 5ft5 and my BW is 145lb, my BF% is 10%. My bench is 198lb for 3 reps which I am happy with but keep looking to improve, I cannot squat or DL my hack squat is only at 180lbs as I cannot be to forcefull on my squats due to a current back problem, but my leg press is 550LB for reps and I could do more, I think my lifts are pretty ok, and about average for my size etc, but I just wonder on a daily basis if anyone else feels the same or maybe how to take that step up that gets you on the road to getting huge?
    Cheers for any pointers guys
    Gra
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  2. #2
    Hammer time... Smelly bull's Avatar
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    My usual recommendation of doing the bill Starr 5x5 program applies here. Find the program, program your weights, and follow it to a "t". The program is a proven program, don't screw around with it.

    Eat big. To get big, you have to eat big.

    Rest.

    As to no squats or deads, well, those are great mass builders, you have to fix the injury problem (maybe it is form?). And yes, Leg presses will build mass, I just like the squats better.

    Best of luck.
    “No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training… what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.” – Socrates

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  3. #3
    Registered User fraherg's Avatar
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    Hi Mate
    cheers for the reply, I will check out that program now, my back issue is due to a problem with my pelvis and spine and i am undergoing physio and medical stuff to fix which is why i dont put any undue strain on it and DL & Squats just seem to agrivate it, hack squats I find are fine as are leg presses, but once its all fixed I hope to start DL again
    Gra
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  4. #4
    I'll Mod Til I'm Dead ironwill2008's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fraherg View Post
    ..... I cannot squat or DL my hack squat is only at 180lbs as I cannot be to forcefull on my squats due to a current back problem.......

    ......how to take that step up that gets you on the road to getting huge?
    Your first step in making progress towards getting 'huge' is to deal with your back problem. No routine, program, or nutrition plan can substitute for not being able to lift increasingly heavy poundages.


    GL
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

    "The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon

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  5. #5
    Registered User fraherg's Avatar
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    Hi Cheers for the reply, I am sorting the back issue out, (well i have been to the GP and am awaiting my appoint with the physio) and once I am all sorted I will be back DL & squats,
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  6. #6
    Registered User leroylavey's Avatar
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    Hey fraherg,

    Those big guys you see lifting those light weights know the secret and the secret is form and weight control. They are lifting the weights with full conscious. Contraction.

    The difference is power lifter vs bodybuilder. Power lifter is focused on how heavy the weights and a Bodybuilder is focuses on controlling the weights and not let the weight control you.

    Learn your bodytype. If your a ectomorph then you should lift somewhere in your 8 rep max range.

    Hope that helped.
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  7. #7
    Registered User polishedball's Avatar
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    you show up; consistency. No matter how bad I feel or what excuse I can come up with, I still go.
    My journal, not detailed, but heck I never keep track of much anyhow. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=121196291&p=863931421#post863931421

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  8. #8
    NAS Strongman bigtallox's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by leroylavey View Post
    Those big guys you see lifting those light weights know the secret and the secret is form and weight control. They are lifting the weights with full conscious. Contraction.

    The difference is power lifter vs bodybuilder. (snip) A Bodybuilder is focuses on controlling the weights and not let the weight control you.
    So you really think a powerlifter squatting 1000 pounds doesn't have to control the weight, or lift the weight with "full conscious"? ( Hint, you're wrong. ) I'd be willing to bet that the OP just isn't seeing all of the big guys training, they're probably squatting and deadlifting unlike the OP.


    Originally Posted by leroylavey View Post
    Learn your bodytype. If your a ectomorph then you should lift somewhere in your 8 rep max range.
    Broscience.
    6'8" 306 pounds

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  9. #9
    that **** cray koolskool's Avatar
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    Diet. you've got to come to grips with what it's going to take for you to gain LBM.
    If you are an ecto- it could be a very high amount of calories.
    ----------start -------------- current

    squat---135x5----------------265x5
    bench---135x1---------------230x1, 195x5
    dead----155x5---------------325x1, 305x5
    military-70x5----------------130x5
    chins----BWx8--------------+70x2
    dips-----BWx14------------ +80x5
    BOR -----115x5--------------205x3
    db row---55x8---------------100x7
    inc DB press------45x5------80x3, 75x7
    seated DB press--35x5------60x4
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  10. #10
    Registered User leroylavey's Avatar
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    Hey bigtallox,

    A powerlifter is focused on moving weights. Like implementing tonnage theory etc. A bodybuilder focuses on stimulating hypertrophy. What I was trying to communicate is form. Form is primary, weight is secondary. For some people they sacrifice their form for heavier weights.

    I have a interesting question. Why does a weight lifter and a bodybuilder have different physiques?

    Because I'm still a new member they won't allow me to post any links from youtube. but go to youtube and type in "Train with Kai IV ARMS". The video is 20 mins and 33 seconds long. You don't have to watch the full thing. You can fast forward to 14.30-20.33 which is the most important part because it really revolutionized the way I thought about lifting.

    Let me know what you think.

    I hope that helps.
    "Your body is the mirror of your mind"

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  11. #11
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by leroylavey View Post
    Hey bigtallox,

    A powerlifter is focused on moving weights. Like implementing tonnage theory etc. A bodybuilder focuses on stimulating hypertrophy. What I was trying to communicate is form. Form is primary, weight is secondary. For some people they sacrifice their form for heavier weights.

    I have a interesting question. Why does a weight lifter and a bodybuilder have different physiques?

    Because I'm still a new member they won't allow me to post any links from youtube. but go to youtube and type in "Train with Kai IV ARMS". The video is 20 mins and 33 seconds long. You don't have to watch the full thing. You can fast forward to 14.30-20.33 which is the most important part because it really revolutionized the way I thought about lifting.

    Let me know what you think.

    I hope that helps.
    Sorry to burst your bubble dude.... Look at the programs of most of the top natural bodybuilders and you will see a commonality, most all move some insane weights on basic compound movements. Kai, can preach all he wants, (and I have seen his vids)...but there is no getting around the tension generated by lifting heavy loads. You can not "think" this tension into play. Fatigue can only fool your muscles part way and the stimulation from it is not as superior as the heavy weight itself.

    The primary difference between a powerlifter and a bodybuilder is a powerlifter will at times try to shift loads as little as possible whereas a bodybuilder may intentionally focus loads on an area. Eg powerlifter squatting low bar and wide stance compared to a bodybuilder high bar squat close stance.

    In the end....at least what I have seen.....is big muscles come for the ability to move big weights.

    Read this....It is what just about all my training is based upon and touches on the ideas of what type of training is really good "bang for the buck"

    http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/...hilosophy.html
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    225 x 29 bench http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe68-LgD0jM
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  12. #12
    Canadian in Korea Juggertha's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by leroylavey View Post
    Hey bigtallox,

    A powerlifter is focused on moving weights. Like implementing tonnage theory etc. A bodybuilder focuses on stimulating hypertrophy. What I was trying to communicate is form. Form is primary, weight is secondary. For some people they sacrifice their form for heavier weights.

    I have a interesting question. Why does a weight lifter and a bodybuilder have different physiques?

    Because I'm still a new member they won't allow me to post any links from youtube. but go to youtube and type in "Train with Kai IV ARMS". The video is 20 mins and 33 seconds long. You don't have to watch the full thing. You can fast forward to 14.30-20.33 which is the most important part because it really revolutionized the way I thought about lifting.

    Let me know what you think.

    I hope that helps.
    I'm going to lean towards this. While I do think absolute weight eventually comes into play, far too often I see people MOVING weight in the gym without putting the stress on the desired areas... and then complain about lack of growth.

    Two people can go through the same plane of motion and have very different focus' and results.
    I don't lift weights, I flex under duress.

    My 12 month progress thread
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=155962953&p=1113020323#post1113020323
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  13. #13
    Registered User fraherg's Avatar
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    cheers, my body type is meso or endo, leaning towards meso. i am deffo not ecto lol
    cheers for the replies guy, really appreicate the advice
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  14. #14
    Registered User h4xk0's Avatar
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    My first advice would be NOT to compare yourself to others, how or how much they lift and stuff.
    My guess-> You're probably older then those guys, haven't been going to the gym for as long as they have and if you really are older your test levels are lower then those of a 25yo.

    Second: As others have stated.. proper diet, focus and proper form when doing exercises. Make that mind-muscle connection. And REST. You won't grow if you don't have enough time to regenerate. Well.. you will but much slower.

    Third: If you're looking at natty way of doing stuff, then you might wanna give Jim Wenlder's 5/3/1 (http://www.strstd.com) a go to gain some strength or Layne Norton's P.H.A.T. (power hypertrophy adaptive training) to do both gain strength and size. PHAT is not a program per say, but is a guide. The idea is that natty need to be strong to grow (and i agree ). You do a couple of power days, followed by hypertrophy days. The stronger you get the heavier weight you can do in hypertrophy phase thus grow bigger . I'm giving 5/3/1 a go starting this weekend.
    Last edited by h4xk0; 11-07-2012 at 12:52 AM. Reason: Typo
    my blog: http://missionsuperbody.blogspot.com/
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  15. #15
    Hammer time... Smelly bull's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by leroylavey View Post
    Hey fraherg,

    Those big guys you see lifting those light weights know the secret and the secret is form and weight control. They are lifting the weights with full conscious. Contraction.

    The difference is power lifter vs bodybuilder. Power lifter is focused on how heavy the weights and a Bodybuilder is focuses on controlling the weights and not let the weight control you.

    Learn your bodytype. If your a ectomorph then you should lift somewhere in your 8 rep max range.

    Hope that helped.
    Hmm...powerlifters have to focus on control, otherwise gravity takes over. Try benching in the 400+ out of control..bad things happen.

    I never believed in the rep range/body type relation. I was born skinny, I was skinny until I discovered lifting large and eating.

    Why does a powerlifter and bb have different physiques? I will start off and say I have gone to numerous powerlifting meets and the lower weight classes, many are ripped. Most people here would kill to have their physiques. Why the difference? Diet comes 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

    And I tarely take advice from someone along the likes of Kai Greene or any other enhanced bodybuilder. I spent to much time in "unlearning" off all the bioscience these guys push.
    “No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training… what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.” – Socrates

    My journal...mostly focused on losing weight and maintaining mass

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=159539181&p=1192452511#post1192452511
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  16. #16
    Registered User JOHN GARGANI's Avatar
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    In the end....at least what I have seen.....is big muscles come for the ability to move big weights.
    ID: I think your quote would have been better if it ended with : "to move biggerweights"

    The goal, as always , is some sort of progression...and one of the easiest progressions to follow is higher weight...

    whether it will result in "BIG" weights, in the end, or not, is individually and genetically determined..meaning, there are those of us who will NEVER lift more than a certain amount....

    as we APPROACH that amount, that is when training becomes even more specific, since, we are not going to be adding weight forever, the methodology eventually supercedes the actual amount of weight you lift, by sheer laws of diminishing returns.

    if you consistently try to lift more than your body can really handle, it equates to injuries and setbacks, and then you start the climb again....

    I mean, just look at my sig line: "Lift as MUCH as you can, for as MANY reps as you can,
    while in complete control of the exercise."

    when CONTROL starts to break down, you are close to whatever your current maximum is...doesn't mean you might not exceed this at some point, but currently, you are there....

    this is where consistency comes into play, as already pointed out by another poster in this fine thread.
    Lift as MUCH as you can, for as MANY reps as you can,
    while in complete control of the exercise.
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  17. #17
    Registered User JOHN GARGANI's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by polishedball View Post
    you show up; consistency. No matter how bad I feel or what excuse I can come up with, I still go.
    Originally Posted by Juggertha View Post
    I'm going to lean towards this. While I do think absolute weight eventually comes into play, far too often I see people MOVING weight in the gym without putting the stress on the desired areas... and then complain about lack of growth.

    two other great replies, both repped.....if we can keep the eventual and inevitable troll out of this thread, it can be a very thought provoking one...
    Lift as MUCH as you can, for as MANY reps as you can,
    while in complete control of the exercise.
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  18. #18
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JOHN GARGANI View Post
    ID: I think your quote would have been better if it ended with : "to move biggerweights"

    The goal, as always , is some sort of progression......
    Yes, I agree 100% with your addition! (as usual!) Funny how simple it is when you boil it all down. Some want to believe it has to be so complex. This is exactly what people do with nutrition too!
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  19. #19
    NAS Strongman bigtallox's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by leroylavey View Post
    A powerlifter is focused on moving weights. Like implementing tonnage theory etc. A bodybuilder focuses on stimulating hypertrophy. What I was trying to communicate is form. Form is primary, weight is secondary.
    I think people who insinuate that form isn't important in powerlifting, understand nothing about powerlifting.

    Originally Posted by leroylavey View Post
    For some people they sacrifice their form for heavier weights.
    But correct form ENABLES MORE WEIGHT TO BE LIFTED.


    Originally Posted by leroylavey View Post
    I have a interesting question. Why does a weight lifter and a bodybuilder have different physiques?
    The biggest difference is diet.
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  20. #20
    Registered User JOHN GARGANI's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OX
    I think people who insinuate that form isn't important in powerlifting, understand nothing about powerlifting.
    very true, and if you watch powerlifting events, you do NOT see sloppy form....as expected, it has it's own set of skills.

    however, grant us this modification in that thought: Form is relative to what you are trying to do: the powerlifter is trying to lift as much as possible: in order to do so, certain form can be essential, but the form is a means to THIS end: moving the weight.

    the Bodybuilider, on the other hand, cares more about hypertrophy and the elusive word "shape": so his "form" is concentrated on achieving those goals.

    The powerlifter couldn't give a hoot about whether his pecs are contracting strongly during a bench...so, again, his goals are different and his form is modeled around that goal.


    But you are right Oxie: form is just as important to a powerlifter.

    just shows the relativity of certain words we throw around here.
    Lift as MUCH as you can, for as MANY reps as you can,
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  21. #21
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bigtallox View Post
    .
    The biggest difference is diet.

    Quoted for truth.


    Take Dave Gulledge as an example. Pretty stout powerlifter right?. Looks like a powerlifter does he not?






    Oh wait! When he drops weight, he does not make a bad bodybuilder either!

    Not seeing a lot of deficiencies in his physique from powerlifting only. (but true if he were a pure bodybuilder he may focus on some specific parts rather then specific lifts). Pretty impressive physique though.




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  22. #22
    All the way from the UK clive's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fraherg View Post
    there are some guys in my gym who's arms are huge however I watch them train and in all honesty I dont see them pushing weights that are that are massively heavier than mine, I am wondering if maybe there is something I am missing?
    Apart from the fact these guys in the gym are probably big due to being younger and lifting longer, they might well just have bigger builds anyway.
    I've been lifting for 13 years and feel I've done well but I still work with guys that are bigger than me with wider shoulders and thicker necks (not difficult) and I know for a fact they've never worked out in their lives.
    Best to enjoy the improvements you make on your own body rather than compare yourself to others.
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  23. #23
    Registered User JOHN GARGANI's Avatar
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    Best to enjoy the improvements you make on your own body rather than compare yourself to others.
    Clive! old buddy, great to see you in this thread!

    and yes, your words of advice are golden to the original poster, of whom, admittingly, we have "sort" of hijacked his thread slightly.....

    keep this one going guys!
    Lift as MUCH as you can, for as MANY reps as you can,
    while in complete control of the exercise.
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  24. #24
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    Originally Posted by Smelly bull View Post
    Hmm...powerlifters have to focus on control, otherwise gravity takes over. Try benching in the 400+ out of control..bad things happen.

    I never believed in the rep range/body type relation. I was born skinny, I was skinny until I discovered lifting large and eating.

    Why does a powerlifter and bb have different physiques? I will start off and say I have gone to numerous powerlifting meets and the lower weight classes, many are ripped. Most people here would kill to have their physiques. Why the difference? Diet comes 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

    And I tarely take advice from someone along the likes of Kai Greene or any other enhanced bodybuilder. I spent to much time in "unlearning" off all the bioscience these guys push.
    With all due respect...I think Kai Greene is a bad example of a pro pushing bro science. If anything Kai is in tune with correct form and preaches alot of good advice. I have learned alot from his videos. Now if you had said Branch warren I would have been in total agreement.
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  25. #25
    that **** cray koolskool's Avatar
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    ^This.
    I've watched several of Kai's videos. I have learned a great deal. Also he's a very humble dood.
    And swole.
    ----------start -------------- current

    squat---135x5----------------265x5
    bench---135x1---------------230x1, 195x5
    dead----155x5---------------325x1, 305x5
    military-70x5----------------130x5
    chins----BWx8--------------+70x2
    dips-----BWx14------------ +80x5
    BOR -----115x5--------------205x3
    db row---55x8---------------100x7
    inc DB press------45x5------80x3, 75x7
    seated DB press--35x5------60x4
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  26. #26
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dave43 View Post
    With all due respect...I think Kai Greene is a bad example of a pro pushing bro science. If anything Kai is in tune with correct form and preaches alot of good advice. I have learned alot from his videos. Now if you had said Branch warren I would have been in total agreement.
    While true Kai makes some good points....I too agree that taking his philosophies as the best way forward may not be the best move. His ideas of training, this lighter weight MMC philosophy, does not necessarily share the same results for a non-enhanced trainee. Not to say NOTHING is of value....but I would instead look to top level natural bodybuilders as to what they do. Most of their routines are based on moving fairly large weights in compound movements. I think you would be surprised just how strong some of those guys are! They of course do iso work, and pump work...but much less of it then the "Pros" do. Their volume of training is generally much less as well.

    Again....he is one of the best at what he does and hold a ton of knowledge, but those methods may not yield the best results in un-aided training.
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  27. #27
    Registered User JOHN GARGANI's Avatar
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    right, ID, because these guys have built a solid foundation with compound and heavy BEFORE modifying their approach to current needs...

    similar to guys like Mentzer and Dorian , who, espoused very few sets LONG after they had put in years of heavy and multiple set workouts....

    I think I mentioned way back in this thread that form is relative to what stage you are in , BB-wise, as needs change as time goes on.....
    Lift as MUCH as you can, for as MANY reps as you can,
    while in complete control of the exercise.
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  28. #28
    Canadian in Korea Juggertha's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    Quoted for truth.


    Take Dave Gulledge as an example. Pretty stout powerlifter right?. Looks like a powerlifter does he not?






    Oh wait! When he drops weight, he does not make a bad bodybuilder either!

    Not seeing a lot of deficiencies in his physique from powerlifting only. (but true if he were a pure bodybuilder he may focus on some specific parts rather then specific lifts). Pretty impressive physique though.




    ID, while I really am impressed with this guy's build, I can't say it's reflective of most of the powerlifters I've trained with. If anything, he reminds me more of the Strongmen I've known.
    I don't lift weights, I flex under duress.

    My 12 month progress thread
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=155962953&p=1113020323#post1113020323
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  29. #29
    Registered User geer_matt's Avatar
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    Compound movements, eat a lot, sleep a lot. There is your answer OP.
    Y U NO COME TO BODYBUILDING.COM???
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  30. #30
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    Originally Posted by caaraa View Post
    A powerlifter is focused on moving weights. Like implementing tonnage theory etc.

    Yep, in powerlifting the most important factor is strength.
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