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  1. #31
    Registered User Keetman's Avatar
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    Its not sensitivity....its a discussion, that's what we're here for.

    You can bench off the rear uprights, I don't know why you wouldn't be able to. The bench would just be put into the rack normally. The pads on most benches go out about as far as the rear support (or wheels), so you just push the bench to the flush crossmember. Since the jhooks come away, toward the inside, of the uprights.....I don't see why you wouldn't be able to bench off the rear.

    The issue, and it is legitimate, is incline benching. A lot of benches may not work with any rack (for incline benching), let alone one that has a flush crossmember. Sometimes it works better to turn the bench around or otherwise get creative. It also maybe better to get a bench that better suits it.

    I don't give a crap about this rack, I'm just pointing out what I've seen with the equipment and stating why I don't think this crossmember thing is that big of an idea. The point of the 4 uprights isn't necessarily to be able to use all four of them (obviously its better if you can), but to provide a total "cage" for safety. If the exercises can be done correctly, comfortably, and safely....I could care less if I ever take the jhooks off and put them on the other side. Any cage is going to be much better than squat stands.

    Cliffs.... you can squat off the front, bench off the back, and get creative with inclines. You should be able to safely use the rack with just about any exercise a rack could be used for and it'll be safer and more versatile than squat stands.
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  2. #32
    Registered User GarageIron's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Keetman View Post
    Its not sensitivity....its a discussion, that's what we're here for.

    You can bench off the rear uprights, I don't know why you wouldn't be able to. The bench would just be put into the rack normally. The pads on most benches go out about as far as the rear support (or wheels), so you just push the bench to the flush crossmember. Since the jhooks come away, toward the inside, of the uprights.....I don't see why you wouldn't be able to bench off the rear.

    The issue, and it is legitimate, is incline benching. A lot of benches may not work with any rack (for incline benching), let alone one that has a flush crossmember. Sometimes it works better to turn the bench around or otherwise get creative. It also maybe better to get a bench that better suits it.

    I don't give a crap about this rack, I'm just pointing out what I've seen with the equipment and stating why I don't think this crossmember thing is that big of an idea. The point of the 4 uprights isn't necessarily to be able to use all four of them (obviously its better if you can), but to provide a total "cage" for safety. If the exercises can be done correctly, comfortably, and safely....I could care less if I ever take the jhooks off and put them on the other side. Any cage is going to be much better than squat stands.

    Cliffs.... you can squat off the front, bench off the back, and get creative with inclines. You should be able to safely use the rack with just about any exercise a rack could be used for and it'll be safer and more versatile than squat stands.
    Fair enough I guess. In this price range Id still go with something like a Rogue S1 or Pendlay Elite Stands with safety spotters. I can't see how a full cage is any safer and there would be no need to tap dance around that crossmember.
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  3. #33
    Registered User irongrandpa's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GarageIron View Post
    Fair enough I guess. In this price range Id still go with something like a Rogue S1 or Pendlay Elite Stands with safety spotters. I can't see how a full cage is any safer and there would be no need to tap dance around that crossmember.
    i use a full cage for squats so that if i fail on a lift i don't have to worry about missing the safety bars. if i fall frontwards or backwards, the bar is going to end up on the safety bars.IMO, it's well worth the peace of mind.
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  4. #34
    Banned Terpgym's Avatar
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    The Deltech DF820 is 81 inches high and has plenty of space for inclines, but always seems to be out of stock... Might be available from resellers. You can ask Deltech when it will be back in stock.

    w w w.deltechfitness.com/df820.htm
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  5. #35
    Registered User GarageIron's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by irongrandpa View Post
    i use a full cage for squats so that if i fail on a lift i don't have to worry about missing the safety bars. if i fall frontwards or backwards, the bar is going to end up on the safety bars.IMO, it's well worth the peace of mind.
    Good Point.
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  6. #36
    York Man AttyGuy's Avatar
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    Better a crossmember than a cross member. Just sayin'. . . .


    For the hoi polloi, that was an entendre. Double, or triple, you be the judge.
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  7. #37
    Registered User Andrew_WOT's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Keetman View Post
    I don't get what the dilemma is on the bottom crossmember all of a sudden. I've been here almost 5 years and I've never heard so many people complain about it at once. It is better if its offset, but if it isn't, just take the damn jhooks off the back uprights and put them on the front. You'll now be facing out of the rack as you squat, so you can still walk the bar back to do the squat and to the rack to "rack" it...just like you're supposed to (its not safe to try to walk the squat back to the rack once you're tired). The only issue is if you like to squat facing the wall so you can look in a mirror. I don't have an answer for you if that's the case, but otherwise...if you don't want to bother moving the jhooks or squatting on the other side of the rack....you're just being obstinate.
    With lat tower attachment you'll be squatting right on the legs holder (ouch) .
    Plus I always felt a bit uneasy backing out knowing that there is a crossmember behind waiting for me to trip over (Powertec rack is not that deep), but guess w/o lat tower and some practice that shouldn't be a problem.
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  8. #38
    Registered User Keetman's Avatar
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    Andrew....please reread my post. Your response to it doesn't make sense.
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  9. #39
    Registered User Andrew_WOT's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Keetman View Post
    Andrew....please reread my post. Your response to it doesn't make sense.
    I was addressing squatting off the front uprights recommendation. Which part doesn't make sense, that you would sit on legs holder or trip over rear crossmember?
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  10. #40
    Registered User Keetman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT View Post
    I was addressing squatting off the front uprights recommendation. Which part doesn't make sense, that you would sit on legs holder or trip over rear crossmember?

    Neither as they relate to what I said.

    Why is your lat pulldown on the front uprights and why wouldn't you be able to back up from the uprights while facing out....then walk back to the front of the rack to put the weight back.

    I don't think you understand what I was trying to suggest as the solution to squatting around the dreaded crossmember. Maybe your interpretation of "front" and "Back" are different than mine? The "back" to me is where the crossbmember is and the "front" is the open part that one typically walks in to get "into" the rack.
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  11. #41
    Registered User Andrew_WOT's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Keetman View Post
    Neither as they relate to what I said.

    Why is your lat pulldown on the front uprights and why wouldn't you be able to back up from the uprights while facing out....then walk back to the front of the rack to put the weight back.

    I don't think you understand what I was trying to suggest as the solution to squatting around the dreaded crossmember. Maybe your interpretation of "front" and "Back" are different than mine? The "back" to me is where the crossbmember is and the "front" is the open part that one typically walks in to get "into" the rack.
    Must be a long day for both of us. You suggested to squat off "front" uprights facing outward. Well, after unracking you would need to step back, inside the rack, and this is where the problem lies.
    Check the Powertec rack with lat attachment, see what I mean? May be I just didn't get what you were trying to say, if that's the case, my apologies.
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  12. #42
    Home gym 'til I die. ProtienandIron's Avatar
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    The whole crossmember debate seems to have gone out of context from my original post on the issue. This is my quote;

    Originally Posted by ProtienandIron View Post
    I think you are making the right choice with the rogue. But since you are considering the powertec and other alternatives, how about the body solid;

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Body-Sol...-/310401380936

    Its a nice rack but its biggest let down is that the crossbar on the floor should be set back. It can get in the way when squatting, and prohibit some benches.
    Notice how I am recommending the rack, as I have in many other threads in the past. I only made mention of one of the racks flaws, but the fact I am recommending it should hopefully hint that its not that big an issue for the reasons everyone has rightly described- hooks/benches/mirrors/and body position can all be moved to accomodate. Aside from my own (irrelevent) training quirks like prefering to face the wall/mirror, and prefering to hit the vertical of the j hooks before racking the bar, I thought all of those points were obvious so maybe I was a bit lazy in not typing out those caveats. But I still think the crossbar is worth a mention as there is no denying that it changes the way you have to use the rack. With a bit of luck, maybe Body Solid will change the design slightly- which IMHO would make the rack close to perfect in its price range (guessing they would also shorten the hooks too on the assumption the crossbar is why they made them longer).
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  13. #43
    Registered User Keetman's Avatar
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    Protein....i was just ranting in general about the rack, no worries.


    Andrew.. No need to apologize, but your picture doesn't change anything for me. You only have to step back a couple of inches, so the pulldown and the crossmember shouldn't be an issue. You set the bar up on the front, you lift it off the hooks and step back (your back will be to the pull down). Then you do your lifts and take a step forward into the front uprights and rack the bar.

    If the pulldown is a factor the way I'm describing it, it will definitely be an issue of you squat on the back uprights facing the wall.
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  14. #44
    Home gym 'til I die. ProtienandIron's Avatar
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    Yeah I guessed that Keet, I was just trying to steer things back on track as my comments seem to have pulled things off course and distracted from it being a great buy even at full price.
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  15. #45
    Registered User Keetman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ProtienandIron View Post
    Yeah I guessed that Keet, I was just trying to steer things back on track as my comments seem to have pulled things off course and distracted from it being a great buy even at full price.

    In a way, I was too....I was simply saying that its a good rack and the crossmember shouldn't play into the decision. I personally think the only down side to the Body Solid Rack is the large hole spacing, but that can be worked around too.
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    Home gym 'til I die. ProtienandIron's Avatar
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    Agreed.
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  17. #47
    Registered User rlundregan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KCGuy01012011 View Post
    So does Matt at Fitness Factory just give out deals on that cage or things in general?

    I found a Body Solid bench on Craigslist (ht tp://imgur.com/JTt0N). Is it a decent one? He's asking $120 for it.
    I don't think anyone has answered your question about this bench. I wouldn't pay $120 for it. In fact, I can't remember the last time I saw anyone ask more than $75 for it, and I personally wouldn't buy it at that price either. I don't think that bench makes sense for you for a couple of reasons. First, the price he is asking is ridiculous. Second, and more important for you, the racks that you seem to be considering aren't a real good match for that bench. If you notice, the rear support on that bench slants backward. Also, the bench seat stays in the same position, while the seat back moves up and down. THat will not work well for either the Powertec or the Body Solid rack. This is one reason why everyone is arguing over the rear crossmember on the rack.

    The rear support on benches like that tend to not fit well in racks that have a crossmember that is not set back far enough. The problem is that the bench support butts up against the rear crossmember on the rack. This is usually not an issue for flat benching. However, if you want to do incline benches (and eventually, you will), the seat back raises up, and actually moves just a little too far forward of the J hooks and the bar. You can't move the bench back any further because it is already butted up against the crossmember of the rack. So, you either start your incline press from a position that is REALLY uncomfortable on your shoulders, or you have to turn your bench around and do incline presses off the front J hooks.

    If those are the racks you are considering (and both would be a fine choice, I particularly like the Body Solid rack), a better bench choice would be one where the rear bench support is straight up and down, and the entire seat slides back as it inclines. Check out the Body Solid GFI21 for an example of what I am talking about. THis bench goes for $300 new. I often see them on CL for $50-90. THey are older versions, usually without wheels on the back, but that is an very well-built bench that allows you to do everything without having to turn the bench around.
    Last edited by rlundregan; 11-06-2012 at 04:54 AM.
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    I should add to this that it really is not a problem to turn a bench around to do inclines off the front hooks if need be. Some people don't like the inconvenience of having to do that, and some people have space issues that make it difficult to turn a bench around in tight quarters.

    I will say, however, that the GFI21 is one great bench for the money.
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    Originally Posted by Keetman View Post

    Andrew.. No need to apologize, but your picture doesn't change anything for me. You only have to step back a couple of inches, so the pulldown and the crossmember shouldn't be an issue. You set the bar up on the front, you lift it off the hooks and step back (your back will be to the pull down). Then you do your lifts and take a step forward into the front uprights and rack the bar.

    If the pulldown is a factor the way I'm describing it, it will definitely be an issue of you squat on the back uprights facing the wall.
    I understand how it could look this way but unfortunately doesn't work that well in practice. I own that combo, low bar below parallel squat is a problem as leg holder bracket gets in a way (and no, it doesn't feel good )
    Not an issue off the back uprights due to indentation of rear crossmember. Anyhow, that's just my experience, some could have made it work.
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    Originally Posted by rlundregan View Post
    I don't think anyone has answered your question about this bench. I wouldn't pay $120 for it. In fact, I can't remember the last time I saw anyone ask more than $75 for it, and I personally wouldn't buy it at that price either. I don't think that bench makes sense for you for a couple of reasons. First, the price he is asking is ridiculous. Second, and more important for you, the racks that you seem to be considering aren't a real good match for that bench. If you notice, the rear support on that bench slants backward. Also, the bench seat stays in the same position, while the seat back moves up and down. THat will not work well for either the Powertec or the Body Solid rack. This is one reason why everyone is arguing over the rear crossmember on the rack.

    The rear support on benches like that tend to not fit well in racks that have a crossmember that is not set back far enough. The problem is that the bench support butts up against the rear crossmember on the rack. This is usually not an issue for flat benching. However, if you want to do incline benches (and eventually, you will), the seat back raises up, and actually moves just a little too far forward of the J hooks and the bar. You can't move the bench back any further because it is already butted up against the crossmember of the rack. So, you either start your incline press from a position that is REALLY uncomfortable on your shoulders, or you have to turn your bench around and do incline presses off the front J hooks.

    If those are the racks you are considering (and both would be a fine choice, I particularly like the Body Solid rack), a better bench choice would be one where the rear bench support is straight up and down, and the entire seat slides back as it inclines. Check out the Body Solid GFI21 for an example of what I am talking about. THis bench goes for $300 new. I often see them on CL for $50-90. THey are older versions, usually without wheels on the back, but that is an very well-built bench that allows you to do everything without having to turn the bench around.


    Wow, thank you for the response. It was very informative. Benches are something I need to research more, but thanks for pointing out a design to look for. After some skimming I ended up deciding that bench wouldn't be that great of a deal. Without having to turn the bench around for various exercises would be nice and hassle-free.

    I think I've decided to go ahead and go with the Body Solid based on the reports from people here and the fact that I can get it for $400 shipped. I definitely want a full cage, but thanks to those giving me alternatives. I think I'd feel a lot more comfortable and safe with a full cage given that I work out alone and won't have to worry about whether or not I will have to try catching the safeties if I fail. So benches are my next ticket item. I'll try finding something on Craigslist, but haven't had too much luck lately. If anyone else has some good recommendations on a bench to go with the Body Solid cage I'd love to hear it.
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    Originally Posted by KCGuy01012011 View Post
    Wow, thank you for the response. It was very informative. Benches are something I need to research more, but thanks for pointing out a design to look for. After some skimming I ended up deciding that bench wouldn't be that great of a deal. Without having to turn the bench around for various exercises would be nice and hassle-free.

    I think I've decided to go ahead and go with the Body Solid based on the reports from people here and the fact that I can get it for $400 shipped. I definitely want a full cage, but thanks to those giving me alternatives. I think I'd feel a lot more comfortable and safe with a full cage given that I work out alone and won't have to worry about whether or not I will have to try catching the safeties if I fail. So benches are my next ticket item. I'll try finding something on Craigslist, but haven't had too much luck lately. If anyone else has some good recommendations on a bench to go with the Body Solid cage I'd love to hear it.
    Where are you located?
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    Originally Posted by rlundregan View Post
    Where are you located?
    Near Kansas City, Missouri.
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    Originally Posted by KCGuy01012011 View Post
    If anyone else has some good recommendations on a bench to go with the Body Solid cage I'd love to hear it.
    I PM'ed you about a couple of possibilities. THe one that actually had a picture looked pretty promising, just make sure you get a little more information about it from the seller. You can PM me if you have other questions about it.

    Other popular benches that get mentioned here frequently are the Ironmaster Super Bench, the Bodycraft f320, and some of the Parabody benches. Parabody has been out of business for several years, but their equipment is very well-made. Some of their benches have a rear support that is curved a bit in order to make it a little shorter so that it fits well in most racks.

    It isn't that uncommon to find commercial benches listed on CL. The price varies wildly, depending on the maker/model/features--I have seen anywhere from $125 to $500.

    You should also know that no bench is perfect for everything. A lot of guys here have more than one bench. You should do some research, and not just take my word for what is good! As an example, you might really want a bench that declines, which is a feature that I personally don't give a wombat's butt about. Check out the threads here--there is a TON of great information.
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    Originally Posted by rlundregan View Post
    I PM'ed you about a couple of possibilities. THe one that actually had a picture looked pretty promising, just make sure you get a little more information about it from the seller. You can PM me if you have other questions about it.

    Other popular benches that get mentioned here frequently are the Ironmaster Super Bench, the Bodycraft f320, and some of the Parabody benches. Parabody has been out of business for several years, but their equipment is very well-made. Some of their benches have a rear support that is curved a bit in order to make it a little shorter so that it fits well in most racks.

    It isn't that uncommon to find commercial benches listed on CL. The price varies wildly, depending on the maker/model/features--I have seen anywhere from $125 to $500.

    You should also know that no bench is perfect for everything. A lot of guys here have more than one bench. You should do some research, and not just take my word for what is good! As an example, you might really want a bench that declines, which is a feature that I personally don't give a wombat's butt about. Check out the threads here--there is a TON of great information.

    Awesome. Thanks for looking into that for me and finding those benches. I'll try to get some information on them.
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    Just an update:

    I found a nice Parabody rack, bench, and weight combo on craigslist, but the buyer is very reluctant to lower his price from $600. Been working on it a few weeks to see if he will let it go or not.

    Today I found an older Powertec rack with 300lbs of weights that the person is willing to sell for around $250. Does anyone know the height and weight capacity of the older model with the rod/saber safeties? I assume they are the same as the newer model, but I'm not certain. Also, does the older model have dip bars? Thanks.

    ht tp://i.imgur.com/QISHd.jpg
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    Originally Posted by KCGuy01012011 View Post
    Just an update:

    I found a nice Parabody rack, bench, and weight combo on craigslist, but the buyer is very reluctant to lower his price from $600. Been working on it a few weeks to see if he will let it go or not.

    Today I found an older Powertec rack with 300lbs of weights that the person is willing to sell for around $250. Does anyone know the height and weight capacity of the older model with the rod/saber safeties? I assume they are the same as the newer model, but I'm not certain. Also, does the older model have dip bars? Thanks.

    ht tp://i.imgur.com/QISHd.jpg
    Should be the same. I have one with rod safeties from 2009 and it came with dip bars, not sure though when Powertec made it a standard feature, can you just ask sellers if he has them.
    Pull up bars look different on the picture, mine are tapered.
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    Originally Posted by KCGuy01012011 View Post
    Just an update:

    I found a nice Parabody rack, bench, and weight combo on craigslist, but the buyer is very reluctant to lower his price from $600. Been working on it a few weeks to see if he will let it go or not.

    Today I found an older Powertec rack with 300lbs of weights that the person is willing to sell for around $250. Does anyone know the height and weight capacity of the older model with the rod/saber safeties? I assume they are the same as the newer model, but I'm not certain. Also, does the older model have dip bars? Thanks.

    ht tp://i.imgur.com/QISHd.jpg
    $600 for that set-up sounds a bit higher than I would be willing to go too.

    The older model Powerrtech is the exact same rack, they only changed the design of the safety bars not the strength.

    I hope you got the Powetech and weight set, thats a great deal.
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    Originally Posted by Wildtim View Post
    $600 for that set-up sounds a bit higher than I would be willing to go too.
    Yeah, there's no way I'm paying $600 for it. I've offered him $425 since the beginning and have shown him numerous past sales of the exact same setup, some include the lat attachment and other accessories, but they never go over $500. He was originally wanting $800 and last week he asked if I could do $600. I told him it's just not worth that. He said he's going to think about it and decide if he even wants to sell it or kept it since he's not going to get what he exacted out of it. I managed to break/crush my finger a week ago so while I heal I'm searching Craigslist for racks and benches. I'm hoping he'll decide to sell otherwise I will probably buy the Body Solid, I'd prefer the Parabody rack though.
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