Stephan Bonnar, Dave Herman fail UFC 153 drug tests, await potential suspensions

[HardGainer82]

everyone is mad at that comment
but not a single picture/name was posted......
bb.com and people here dont understand how the game works.....

I never said anything about a picture. Saying someone who is 6" and over 185 is automatically juicing is silly. It's a random number. Definitely not mad, honestly more sad...

[Clark_Kent]

I never said anything about a picture. Saying someone who is 6" and over 185 is automatically juicing is silly. It's a random number. Definitely not mad, honestly more sad...

This and that baseline is retarded.

I'm 6'1" and fought at 185 while walking around at 205 - 210 at less than 10% body fat. I trained 3 days a wake for 2 hours, and two days a week for 4 hours with another day of lifting and didn't even use a test booster. I just ate clean and a lot.

Your assumption that anyone 6 feet or under can't be a lean 185 or heavier without pharmaceutical assistance means you're just doing it wrong.

[wrstlr152]

Fowlkes: MMA's drug problem is real – and it isn't getting any better

http://mmajunkie.com/news/31448/fowl...any-better.mma

It's funny how differently fighters react to positive drug tests when it's the UFC administering them, isn't it? It's kind of like when you were a kid and you quickly learned which teachers could be taken advantage of and which were to be feared from a great distance.

Just look at how things went down after UFC 153 in Brazil, where the UFC's independent testing efforts nabbed Stephan Bonnar for steroids and Dave Herman for marijuana. Then compare that to the circuses that have resulted from positive tests in Nevada or California in recent years.

Get caught by a state athletic commission and out come the appeals, the tainted workout supplements, the earnest testimony from a family doctor who was only trying to help when he mixed that testosterone in with the fighter's corn flakes. But let the UFC be the one to catch a fighter with his hand in the steroid cookie jar and the admissions of guilt get quietly posted to the UFC website. So, too, do the promises of punishment and declarations of a strict anti-drug policy. Kind of makes you wonder why the situation doesn't seem to be getting any better.

Let's just admit here what we all already know: the sport of mixed martial arts has a drug problem. Look around. You can separate fighters into four basic categories at this point: (1) Fighters who have been busted for illegal use of a performance-enhancing substance; (2) fighters who have somehow received permission (!!!) to use a performance-enhancing substance, occasionally even after being busted for using the same substance illegally; (3) fighters who have been busted for non-performance-enhancing drugs (marijuana, basically); and (4) fighters who haven't been busted for anything (at least not yet).

Maybe it's the fighters in category No. 3 we should feel the most at ease about. The one thing we know about them is that they aren't very good at concealing their own drug use. At least with them, we know what they're up to, and it's mostly harmless (to their opponents, anyway). Of course, we also know what the fighters in category No. 2 are up to, though I doubt their opponents feel as safe knowing that they're injecting powerful hormones rather than smoking mood-altering plants.

The point is, MMA has such a problem with drugs it can't even decide which ones to focus on, or which regulatory body should do the focusing. The UFC doesn't really want to do it unless it happens to be in a country or city where no other entity cares what fighters put into their bodies, in which case fine, it will collect samples and send them off to be tested. Even then, it's hard not to get the sense that the UFC is doing it more out of obligation than genuine concern (see also: Quinton "Rampage" Jackson's therapeutic-use exemption for testosterone at UFC 144 in Japan). Seems like the UFC also would really prefer it if fighters could just test clean and not thrust the whole system under the microscope, which is not exactly the stance you'd hope for from your PED watchdog.

Unfortunately, even that was more than Bonnar could handle when he got called to step in against Anderson Silva in Rio de Janeiro. This is the second positive steroid test in Bonnar's career – the same career that the UFC was busy blowing all kinds of hot air into during the UFC 153 broadcast. Get popped once, and maybe we'll believe you made a bad decision. Get popped twice, and that's when we question whether you ever competed clean. The question now is, what is the UFC going to do about it?

It's a tricky question, and one that will tell us a lot about how interested the world's biggest MMA organization really is in addressing drug use. Bonnar's already said he's retired, so a suspension is meaningless. Will the UFC continue to give him work as an analyst on its pre- and post-fight shows after this? It was fine having him on when we only knew him as a one-time steroid cheat – and why not, when the job required him to sit next to Chael Sonnen, who once fought for the UFC middleweight title with four times the normal amount of testosterone in his system. How about now, when there's a cloud of Drostanolone and Boldenone hanging over everything he ever did?

This is important, because it tells us something about the UFC's comfort level with drug cheats. At the moment, we're far from zero tolerance. The way it works is you pay your fine, do your stint in timeout, then you come back and everything's cool. So why shouldn't you use performance-enhancing drugs? If you're smart enough to read a calendar, you probably won't get caught. And if you do get caught – perhaps by the type of random test that exposed Alistair Overeem – you'll only get yelled at by the boss for a brief time until you get to come back and pick up more or less where you left off. It almost makes doping seem like some minor infraction that goes along with the fight game, not so different from grabbing the fence to avoid a takedown. Even if you get caught and get punished, which might take a while, the risks will still be outweighed by the rewards.

This is why we're not making much headway in the fight against performance-enhancing drugs in MMA. The incentives are still too great and the punishments nowhere near severe enough. It's a crisis of philosophy, and not just the practical concerns about the when and how and what of drug testing.

As long as you can ignore concerns like integrity and self-respect, why not cheat and take your chances? Better yet, just take your lumps out in the open and get a prescription for testosterone. The way they're being approved by the very people who are supposed to be making sure that the playing field is level to begin with – the way PEDs in one form or another are almost accepted in the MMA culture – how could you possibly take drug policy in this sport seriously? How can any of us?







Quinton Jackson, Eddie Alvarez, and others react to news of Stephan Bonnar’s steroid use



http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2012/11/...ces+of+Pain%29

A flood of opinions have been unleashed since last week’s news surrounding Stephan Bonnar and Dave Herman testing positive for banned substances relating to their bouts last month at UFC 153. Now, some of their fellow fighters are starting to speak out about the situation, and the reactions are actually less critical than some might expect.

In a feature from Fight Hub TV, UFC light heavyweight Quinton Jackson shrugged off Bonnar’s hit for steroids, stating he was more shocked by the fact the UFC revealed the fan-favorite’s status than the actual infraction itself.

“I’m not surprised. He tested positive before…so I’m not surprised,” explained Jackson. “But Stephan Bonnar is the UFC’s golden boy so he can do whatever he wants. I’m surprised they even let that news get out.”

“Rampage” also admitted he felt Herman’s suspension for marijuana use was unnecessary, confessing he had no problem with fighters who smoke pot and doesn’t see there being a need to punish them.

Meanwhile, former Bellator lightweight champ Eddie Alvarez remained neutral on the matter, making it clear he had no interest in doing drugs himself but wasn’t the kind of person who points fingers at those who do.

“I don’t condone steroids (but) I don’t hate on anyone that does them. I’m an athlete and I understand the pressure that fighters have to deal with. I’m not gonna judge anyone for doing steroids,” said Alvarez.

“It runs rampant in this sport and it sucks that it does,” the frustrated free agent added in conclusion, though still refusing to lay blame at any individual’s feet.

Other people to weigh in in the conversation with Fight Hub included UFC heavyweight Travis Browne, kickboxer Tyrone Spong, and manager Ed Soares



It seems fighters are not surprised about people using steroids.. with TRT being around It gives fighters an excuse/ an ability to use roids and cover it up under a doctors note. If athletic commissions were smart they would get rid of the therapeutic exemptions that way fighter will have no excuse when being caught pissing hot.


Thoughts on the two articles?

[Big Slim DaDDy]

185lbs and 3-5% bodyfat is bloody shredded and huge for average height. Thinking any average guy can get like that is derp.

[legbrah]

I never said anything about a picture. Saying someone who is 6" and over 185 is automatically juicing is silly. It's a random number. Definitely not mad, honestly more sad...

I said stage condition 185lbs and its <6'' can you read?
obv if your 6'6'' that ~185lbs weight is going to be much much more
its more sad that you talk the talk but cant prove me wrong

This and that baseline is retarded.

I'm 6'1" and fought at 185 while walking around at 205 - 210 at less than 10% body fat. I trained 3 days a wake for 2 hours, and two days a week for 4 hours with another day of lifting and didn't even use a test booster. I just ate clean and a lot.

Your assumption that anyone 6 feet or under can't be a lean 185 or heavier without pharmaceutical assistance means you're just doing it wrong.

you werent 185 at stage condition
of course they can be more that 185 at greater BF%, but its very hard/impossible to step on stage around that weight, thats where you guys are misunderstanding the concept

185lbs and 3-5% bodyfat is bloody shredded and huge for average height. Thinking any average guy can get like that is derp.

what do you expect
they are mma guys on a BB forum
its like me saying you can get your Black belt in 2 years on a BJJ forum..

[Clark_Kent]

WTF is stage condition? The closest thing to that is weigh ins, when I weighed 185 and was at 6 or 7 percent. I'm an average person and wasn't using and got to that point. With a nutritionist and full time training it isn't ridiculous to think I could get to 3 - 5 percent bf.

[legbrah]

WTF is stage condition? The closest thing to that is weigh ins, when I weighed 185 and was at 6 or 7 percent. I'm an average person and wasn't using and got to that point. With a nutritionist and full time training it isn't ridiculous to think I could get to 3 - 5 percent bf.

it doesnt mean your 6-7% just cause you drain water out
you're 6'1'' yes 1-2'' makes a difference
no you couldnt get to 5% as easy as you think with just diet
pics of you at your weighin?

[ftwrestler]

No.

With the training regime they keep up, I find it staggering that they can still come in sub 10% bodyfat at weigh-in and still have a respectable amount of muscle mass.

it's called food. try it

[RiK]

it doesnt mean your 6-7% just cause you drain water out
you're 6'1'' yes 1-2'' makes a difference
no you couldnt get to 5% as easy as you think with just diet
pics of you at your weighin?

i have to agree with you here. 6'1" vs 5'11" makes a big difference. i have always averaged the weight difference per inch in height for the same build to be about 7lbs. You coming in at 6'1 185 is like a 5'11 guy being around 171lbs, not hard at all. Kenty boy, come back when you're peeled at 199lbs and tell us it's easily attainable naturally. I'm not saying it cannot happen, but it requires a large bone structure and a body type leaning heavily towards mesomorph.

[legbrah]

i have to agree with you here. 6'1" vs 5'11" makes a big difference. i have always averaged the weight difference per inch in height for the same build to be about 7lbs. You coming in at 6'1 185 is like a 5'11 guy being around 171lbs, not hard at all. Kenty boy, come back when you're peeled at 199lbs and tell us it's easily attainable naturally. I'm not saying it cannot happen, but it requires a large bone structure and a body type leaning heavily towards mesomorph.

same 6-7lbs per inch in height

[Clark_Kent]

It wouldn't be that hard to get there, all you have to be is disciplined.

Must not be something you chaps have much of in jolly old England.

[stealth_swimmer]

go ahead,

and roids in mma isnt mostly about gaining mass like BBing
they also think about recovery

I think you made their point for them. That physique is obtainable naturally. Steroids enhance recovery, so if you train for size, you can get more size than you could without steroids. Point being, you if someone uses steroids just by looking at them (unless they're obscenely developed or whatever, like IFBB Pro style, and just so folks know - some people have turned IFBB Pro while being natural - like Darrem Charles who only started using after he turned pro)

[2much2gain]

(unless they're obscenely developed or whatever, like IFBB Pro style, and just so folks know - some people have turned IFBB Pro while being natural - like Darrem Charles who only started using after he turned pro)

I will never ever believe that... Never.

[superfunk]

Referring to a RETIRED pro fighter (such as Stephan Bonnar), not someone who wants bigger pecs to flex in front of strangers at the local Gold's because he's insecure.

I kinda doubt his thought process was, "well, I'm done getting punched in the face for a living, let's see how big I can make my quads." If he was juicing for recovery, which is pretty damn likely, why would he have been doing it before he got called for the fight?

Plenty of athletes his age start taking steroids to keep their youth, regain their mojo etc. Lots of reasons for someone to recreationally use roids too, they can be quite addictive. My question for you: If Bonnar took this fight on 1 months notice and decided to juice up during training, why would he take a steroid that has a 2 month detection period? Makes no sense.

[Brian0602]

I agree with a lot of what squatguy up there is saying.
It was pretty obvious to me that Bonnar was juiced up for the fight.
Take my opinion with a grain of salt, because I would bet money that certain other fighters are juicing that haven't been busted... Yet.
I won't mention names cause I'm not sure what the rule are about that.
I'm always suspicious whenever I see fighters who look much much better than natty bodybuilders.
Again though, I'm no expert so don't pick my post apart like most *******s on these boards do when they disagree. lol

[Casshern]

So Rampage gets an exemption and then uses that as an excuse as to why he couldn't make weight and thinks he can comment on other people's failed drug tests?

[stealth_swimmer]

I will never ever believe that... Never.

Ok. Just keep in mind that there have been people to turn pro who weren't that big - they won based on conditioning and proportions that were good enough to beat people who were bigger than them.

[legbrah]

Plenty of athletes his age start taking steroids to keep their youth, regain their mojo etc. Lots of reasons for someone to recreationally use roids too, they can be quite addictive. My question for you: If Bonnar took this fight on 1 months notice and decided to juice up during training, why would he take a steroid that has a 2 month detection period? Makes no sense.

They are on all year round bro
thats how it works

they can probably 'mask' it
he prolly couldnt be fuked to since it was his last fight

[DFS200]

I went from 185 to 205 in my senior year of highschool just through noob gains. Regularly train muay thai, wrestling and weights and i'm less than 10% at 195, easily attainable without sterons.

[2much2gain]

I went from 185 to 205 in my senior year of highschool just through noob gains. Regularly train muay thai, wrestling and weights and i'm less than 10% at 195, easily attainable without sterons.

People throw around 10% bf too lightly these days, its still quite ripped...

Judging by your username and the way you talk you're probably 13-15% BF.

[chucksmanhood]

People throw around 10% bf too lightly these days, its still quite ripped...

Judging by your username and the way you talk you're probably 13-15% BF.

What the **** has his username got to do with owt.

[legbrah]

What the **** has his username got to do with owt.

lulz

DFS200 post some pics brah
would be good too see if what your saying is true

[RiK]

i co-sign that callout.

edit: your profile says your waist is 34", see people have no idea about the vast chasm of difference between being jacked at 7% bf and what you must be at around 13/16%.

edit: your profile says Nov 5, 2009 14.5% bf. damn i nailed it.

Remember, on this forum.. no pictures, ignore it. Too many liars and deluded folk.

[ftwrestler]

oh please, getting down sub 10% and retaining mass is easy.

You just need to learn to love chicken and celery because that is all you will be eating for a month. it amazes me how people think something is unattainable just because they are too lazy to do it.

[legbrah]

i co-sign that callout.

edit: your profile says your waist is 34", see people have no idea about the vast chasm of difference between being jacked at 7% bf and what you must be at around 13/16%.

edit: your profile says Nov 5, 2009 14.5% bf. damn i nailed it.

Remember, on this forum.. no pictures, ignore it. Too many liars and deluded folk.

Yep
thought the MMA fans here would be more educated in BBing than the guys over at UNderground or Sherdog
guess its just the same

oh please, getting down sub 10% and retaining mass is easy.

You just need to learn to love chicken and celery because that is all you will be eating for a month. it amazes me how people think something is unattainable just because they are too lazy to do it.

we didnt say anything about being sub 10% and retaining mass
its just about how much mass you can carry at that BF% and lower
and its not as much as you guys are assuming

[RiK]

oh please, getting down sub 10% and retaining mass is easy.

You just need to learn to love chicken and celery because that is all you will be eating for a month. it amazes me how people think something is unattainable just because they are too lazy to do it.

you are the biggest know it all on here. You are like a little irritating fly that wont go away. I have not even once read something from you that gives the impression of actual knowledge and not hot air written just for your own self satisfaction. Yawn.

edit: profile says CURRENT WEIGHT 163 Lbs. Oct 2, 2012 CURRENT BODY FAT 15%. lmao you can't make this stuff up. The pic in your profile where you are actually lean you weigh about 145lbs, so don't you dare fraud on here and claim being ripped with decent muscle mass is 'easy'.

its just about how much mass you can carry at that BF% and lower
and its not as much as you guys are assuming

This.

[IAmBatman]

oh please, getting down sub 10% and retaining mass is easy.

You just need to learn to love chicken and celery because that is all you will be eating for a month. it amazes me how people think something is unattainable just because they are too lazy to do it.

163lbs..


Talks about retaining mass... what did your hair not fall out?

[Amoral]

No one said he should look like Jay Cutler. How he looks is completely reasonable for a professional athlete, someone who's only job is to work out...but some people will always be convinced that they can somehow spot a roider on sight.

His only job is to work out and win and its proven time and time again that steroids gh slin all work, so why wouldnt he?? I had to laugh at the comment about a professional athlete they are all drugged up so yes its reasonable. At bonnars age and bf hes clearly using.

35 years old and comes in shredded for a fight. The fact that MMA athletes can maintain any mass past 170lbs blows my mind.

What they really should have been testing Bonnar for was Melanotan II.

Well they can't thats why they all use drugs. Tests are so easy to beat question is is how dumb is bonnar.

No.

With the training regime they keep up, I find it staggering that they can still come in sub 10% bodyfat at weigh-in and still have a respectable amount of muscle mass.

Drugs.

[jamez123]

WTF is stage condition? The closest thing to that is weigh ins, when I weighed 185 and was at 6 or 7 percent.

lol. lets see your pic at that bf % and weight.

Most people are notorious for underestimating their BF%. Your 6-7% is most likely 10-12.

[2much2gain]

Ok. Just keep in mind that there have been people to turn pro who weren't that big - they won based on conditioning and proportions that were good enough to beat people who were bigger than them.

How do you think they achieved that conditioning?

I'm sorry but bodybuilders are the hardest to defend, most of them are insecure as hell and would do anything to achieve extra muscle mass.

I don't believe anyone would make pro without using some kind of AAS. You don't get into that 'sport' to play by the rules.