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  1. #1
    Registered User MmaMike35's Avatar
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    Is there a need to workout abs directly?

    Hey guys i just started taking lifting seriously and I was wondering if you have to workout your abs directly or if compound movements like squats hit them good enough?
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    Registered User KingOfLimbs's Avatar
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    It helps definition to do weighted ab work but you will get nice abs just lifting heavy with compounds. In your position it would probably take a cut to 145 lbs to even have visible abs which is way too light. Eat more, lift more, and worry about cutting and seeing nice abs in a year+ from now unless you want to be one of those dudes that have the body of a girl.
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    The BACKMAN DJAuto's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MmaMike35 View Post
    Hey guys i just started taking lifting seriously and I was wondering if you have to workout your abs directly or if compound movements like squats hit them good enough?
    That depends upon your goals. IMO - yes.
    Bodybuilding is 60% training and 50% diet. Yes that adds up to 110%, because that's what you should be giving it. Change the inside, and the physique will follow.
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    Registered User MmaMike35's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KingOfLimbs View Post
    It helps definition to do weighted ab work but you will get nice abs just lifting heavy with compounds. In your position it would probably take a cut to 145 lbs to even have visible abs which is way too light. Eat more, lift more, and worry about cutting and seeing nice abs in a year+ from now unless you want to be one of those dudes that have the body of a girl.
    Alright thanks, I plan on gaining at least 10 pounds of muscle before I even think about cutting
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    Banned Enterococcusspp's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MmaMike35 View Post
    Hey guys i just started taking lifting seriously and I was wondering if you have to workout your abs directly or if compound movements like squats hit them good enough?
    You need to evaluate your core strength and stability. If they are lacking, weak abs will be weak links in some lifts like OHPs and squats.

    I didn't realize how much squats and deadlifts did little to nothing to build a strong core until I started doing standing OHP and my midsection was wobbly. Once I started doing direct work, my numbers on OHP and squats started to shoot up and my form also improved.
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    Registered User Str8FromNYC's Avatar
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    in my fitness class we do p90x ab ripper then do our lifting routine and i have seen results.
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    Registered User KingOfLimbs's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Enterococcusspp View Post
    I didn't realize how much squats and deadlifts did little to nothing to build a strong core until I started doing standing OHP and my midsection was wobbly. Once I started doing direct work, my numbers on OHP and squats started to shoot up and my form also improved.
    You obviously don't know what your doing.
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    Registered User repsandsets's Avatar
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    Depends on your goals. Functionally speaking, your core muscles are mostly for keeping your spin stable. Hence, they're best trained with static contractions - like the plank. Big moves like the standing military press will also develop your core stability.

    If, however, you're after a bulging six-pack, there will come a time when you want to introduce weight resistance moves for your six pack - like weighted crunches, or the ab machine, since this is the only real way to achieve significant hypertrophy. There's no point in doing this, however, until your body fat is low enough for your six pack to be visible.
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    Registered User huijlk's Avatar
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    you do need to do ur core. not just for definition, but for stability. strong core = strong lifts, weak core = injury everywhere
    focus!
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    Registered User MichaelCJ's Avatar
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    There aren't very many "non-ab" exercises that really strengthen them, to a large extent.

    So, yes. Generally speaking, there is a need. All the more so if you're a raw lifter.

    Relying on squats (high bar or low; whichever), for example, for abdominal strength, is effing stupid.

    "The abs" is the flipside to the lower back. You really want either side of that area to be weak? I sure as hell don't.

    edit: Oh, and to dispel yet another myth while I'm at it - many classic direct ab exercises are compound exercises as well. Just for the record.
    Last edited by MichaelCJ; 11-01-2012 at 07:33 PM.
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  11. #11
    Registered User KingOfLimbs's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MichaelCJ View Post
    There aren't very many "non-ab" exercises that really strengthen them, to a large extent.

    So, yes. Generally speaking, there is a need. All the more so if you're a raw lifter.

    Relying on squats (high bar or low; whichever), for example, for abdominal strength, is effing stupid.

    "The abs" is the flipside to the lower back. You really want either side of that area to be weak? I sure as hell don't.

    edit: Oh, and to dispel yet another myth while I'm at it - many classic direct ab exercises are compound exercises as well. Just for the record.
    Id like to hear from people who squat or deadlift 450 lbs+ if they needed weighted ab work to increase their lifts.
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    Registered User SteelCity412's Avatar
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    If u r new to lifting..first thing to do is dont even think about the word "cutting"
    Second, train ur core just like u train every other muscle. Your core is the foundation or ur body. Thats like building a house on sand. Third, train your legs. Dont worry about how much weight u do just use good form and u will grow. Good luck buddy
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  13. #13
    Registered User BombDonald's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KingOfLimbs View Post
    Id like to hear from people who squat or deadlift 450 lbs+ if they needed weighted ab work to increase their lifts.
    Direct ab work is important.
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    Originally Posted by Enterococcusspp View Post
    You need to evaluate your core strength and stability. If they are lacking, weak abs will be weak links in some lifts like OHPs and squats.

    I didn't realize how much squats and deadlifts did little to nothing to build a strong core until I started doing standing OHP and my midsection was wobbly. Once I started doing direct work, my numbers on OHP and squats started to shoot up and my form also improved.
    What exercises did you start doing for direct ab/core work? I had been doing goblet squats "wrong", but it was hitting my abs, I started doing starting strength while doing the squats "right" and it definitely isn't hitting my abs like it used to. I keep trying to figure out if anyone is doing ab work that can be incrementally weighted...
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    Registered User Rasputin4's Avatar
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    Hmm...When I squat and deadlift with proper form, my abs are hit pretty dang well. I've also never had any problems with feeling wobbly or anything during overhead press.
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    Originally Posted by MmaMike35 View Post
    Hey guys i just started taking lifting seriously and I was wondering if you have to workout your abs directly or if compound movements like squats hit them good enough?
    Abs will get a boatload of indirect work from just about everything else you do in the gym, but, like all your other muscle groups, would probably benefit from at least some direct work once or twice a week.
    No brain, no gain.

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    Working my abs directly a little each workout has improved my squats and deads. It's also made my snapped up lower back feel like new again.
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    Banned Enterococcusspp's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KingOfLimbs View Post
    You obviously don't know what your doing.
    Being a WNPF national champ and state dl record holder, clearly I don't

    Nor do top power lifters who advocate direct ab work to eliminate the core as a weak link.
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    Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    What exercises did you start doing for direct ab/core work? I had been doing goblet squats "wrong", but it was hitting my abs, I started doing starting strength while doing the squats "right" and it definitely isn't hitting my abs like it used to. I keep trying to figure out if anyone is doing ab work that can be incrementally weighted...
    weighted situps, spread eagle situps, barbell rollouts, reverse crunch and lying leg raise.

    speaking for myself the addition of direct ab work was born from taking pics and vids of lifts and various postural positions. i had some minor anterior pelvic tilt that needed to be worked on and part of that was strengthening the abs
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  20. #20
    Registered User stratoo's Avatar
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    I was a preacher of only doing compounds for abs and excluding direct ab work until I noticed my shrinking abs after my last cut. Now I'm back to doing 2-3 sets of direct ab work twice a week. In terms of functionality I'd say doing ab isolation exercises is unnecessary, although it does help with lower back recovery sometimes...
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  21. #21
    Registered User MichaelCJ's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KingOfLimbs View Post
    Id like to hear from people who squat or deadlift 450 lbs+ if they needed weighted ab work to increase their lifts.
    Then you should go read what they have to say, and maybe even watch or listen to them, in some cases.

    Plenty out there. Some of whom have squatted more than double that, FYI.

    Me? No, only around ~350lbs so far, but then, I haven't been in this game for long. To put it mildly.
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