Need advice on whether to follow coach's untraditional advice

[sfalexi]

Advice from coach Decided to use a coach for this next competition. National qualifier. But he has told me to cut on an equal grams of carbs and proteins, but a VERY low fat content.

When I did it on my own I'm about 157 lbs, and previously I have cut on a low carb, high protein diet, with .5 grams of fat per lb bodyweight. I was taking in 2300 calories a day and about 250g protein, 77 g fat, and the rest carbs. Twice a week, I would drop the protein to 1g per lb bodyweight and raise the carbs to go to 2500-2700 calories. I'm talking pizza one day and five guys burgers and fries a few days later, focusing more on macros twice a week. Here's the resulting pictures at the competitions (two weeks, back to back)...

I'm the one to the far right of the picture.



HIS credibility and advice - He is credible. He's coached multiple state NPC winners and has competed professional himself in the past. But his advice is to cut down to 180g carbs, 180g protein, and 25g fats!!!

Everything I've read says NOT to drop fats that low as it's a source of alternative fuel, and keeps testosterone high, and in general is bad. Hell, there's even a whole style of dieting dedicated to HIGH fats to get the body used to using it as fuel!!!

But he does have the credibility.....

So do I follow his diet plan, slashing calories way lower than I did before? Or do I adjust as I did on my own and use his advice on posing and peak week strategies?

I'm torn and worried that dropping my fats that low will hurt me for the competition, but he is adamant that it is key to shredding for the competition. I could use some friendly advice.

Alexi

[wrkoutfrq]

Ok first things first.... just because this trainer has trained "multiple state NPC winners" doesn't make him credible... What makes the trainer credible is that they were able to do it WITHOUT screwing your metabolism/health. After giving you those macros to start off, I'm gonna say that I HIGHLY doubt that is the case. Starting a diet at less than 1700 calories is in my opinion absurd, and is asking for issues in the future. You seem to have gotten in good shape on 2300kcal, and you're questioning starting a diet at ~1650kcal?

What were his starting cardio recommendations? Lemme guess: probably 4-5 days a week of LISS on top of lifting?

[endomonkey]

Oh oh I can probably guess who this is. Well maybe.

If its the same person I used him for a bit bc I love the way his girls turn out and he is about perserving the metabolism and pretty much no cardio. He did advise in offseason to eat it up and get the fat levels back to normal.

To each his own but I like the advice he gives and how frank he is on subjects.

[sfalexi]

Ok first things first.... just because this trainer has trained "multiple state NPC winners" doesn't make him credible... What makes the trainer credible is that they were able to do it WITHOUT screwing your metabolism/health. After giving you those macros to start off, I'm gonna say that I HIGHLY doubt that is the case. Starting a diet at less than 1700 calories is in my opinion absurd, and is asking for issues in the future. You seem to have gotten in good shape on 2300kcal, and you're questioning starting a diet at ~1650kcal?

I know. By his suggested macros for my bodyweight (he did see my pictures and I told him I was previously at 2300), I'd be at 800 cals less than what I did before. I thought what I did before worked well, although there was room for improvement and I'm worried about dropping that low.

What were his starting cardio recommendations? Lemme guess: probably 4-5 days a week of LISS on top of lifting?

Yup. Actually, 7 days a week LISS. Every day.

At least I'm not the only one who thinks this seems extreme.

If its the same person I used him for a bit bc I love the way his girls turn out and he is about perserving the metabolism and pretty much no cardio. He did advise in offseason to eat it up and get the fat levels back to normal.

Maybe the same guy, but he suggested one hour of LISS every day. I do appreciate his frankness and no BS when it came to advice. Simple, "Nope. That pose is all sorts of wrong. Do it this way." Then my wife took a picture and he pointed out why his pose was better than mine based on what judges are looking for. Great to get in and out for a posing session with pictures and quick explanations, but his dieting idea seems WAY off. 1600 calories I've seen recommended for FEMALE bodybuilders or fitness girls with less overall mass than me. I know I'm not huge (yet), but that just seemed way too low.

[endomonkey]

I know. By his suggested macros for my bodyweight (he did see my pictures and I told him I was previously at 2300), I'd be at 800 cals less than what I did before. I thought what I did before worked well, although there was room for improvement and I'm worried about dropping that low.Yup. Actually, 7 days a week LISS. Every day.

At least I'm not the only one who thinks this seems extreme.Maybe the same guy, but he suggested one hour of LISS every day. I do appreciate his frankness and no BS when it came to advice. Simple, "Nope. That pose is all sorts of wrong. Do it this way." Then my wife took a picture and he pointed out why his pose was better than mine based on what judges are looking for. Great to get in and out for a posing session with pictures and quick explanations, but his dieting idea seems WAY off. 1600 calories I've seen recommended for FEMALE bodybuilders or fitness girls with less overall mass than me. I know I'm not huge (yet), but that just seemed way too low.

Oh yeah not him if he has you at an hour of cardio. My dude had the same train of thought diet wise and all his people are peeled.....

Yeah **** an hour of cardio.

[RCSSdirector]

Advice from coach Decided to use a coach for this next competition. National qualifier. But he has told me to cut on an equal grams of carbs and proteins, but a VERY low fat content.

When I did it on my own I'm about 157 lbs, and previously I have cut on a low carb, high protein diet, with .5 grams of fat per lb bodyweight. I was taking in 2300 calories a day and about 250g protein, 77 g fat, and the rest carbs. Twice a week, I would drop the protein to 1g per lb bodyweight and raise the carbs to go to 2500-2700 calories. I'm talking pizza one day and five guys burgers and fries a few days later, focusing more on macros twice a week. Here's the resulting pictures at the competitions (two weeks, back to back)...



HIS credibility and advice - He is credible. He's coached multiple state NPC winners and has competed professional himself in the past. But his advice is to cut down to 180g carbs, 180g protein, and 25g fats!!!

Everything I've read says NOT to drop fats that low as it's a source of alternative fuel, and keeps testosterone high, and in general is bad. Hell, there's even a whole style of dieting dedicated to HIGH fats to get the body used to using it as fuel!!!

But he does have the credibility.....

So do I follow his diet plan, slashing calories way lower than I did before? Or do I adjust as I did on my own and use his advice on posing and peak week strategies?

I'm torn and worried that dropping my fats that low will hurt me for the competition, but he is adamant that it is key to shredding for the competition. I could use some friendly advice.

Alexi

Is this were you are starting your diet? These would be your numbers 12 or so weeks out to start? If so i would say everything is way too low. I dont know why your protein would get that low to begin with especially is fat and carbs are reduced. Also, how much cardio would you be doing on this low fat/cal plan? Look everyone is different and reacts differently to plans and this may have worked for others and may work for you but based on your history it seems too low. The best way to find out what works for you is trial and error so you may need to just try it and monitor your progress closely so that you can make changes if it isnt going well.

[Devils]

I wouldn't use that contest plan. I would stick to 1700 to 2000 calories with a weekly refeed. I would also not do all that liss. I would also keep fats at least 45g + on your lowest days, and you can even raise it every few days.

[sfalexi]

Is this were you are starting your diet? These would be your numbers 12 or so weeks out to start? If so i would say everything is way too low. I dont know why your protein would get that low to begin with especially is fat and carbs are reduced. Also, how much cardio would you be doing on this low fat/cal plan? Look everyone is different and reacts differently to plans and this may have worked for others and may work for you but based on your history it seems too low. The best way to find out what works for you is trial and error so you may need to just try it and monitor your progress closely so that you can make changes if it isnt going well.

Starting my diet out and throughout the contest prep for June I was at 2300 a day with two days slightly higher. Thursday was 2500 and Sunday was 2700.

On his lowfat cal plan of 1650 cals, I would be doing 1 hour of LISS 4 days a week and the other three days would be 20 minutes of HIIT. Just doesn't seem to compute in my mind with the amount of activity and how I did before on a higher calorie diet.

I wouldn't use that contest plan. I would stick to 1700 to 2000 calories with a weekly refeed. I would also not do all that liss. I would also keep fats at least 45g + on your lowest days, and you can even raise it every few days.

Looking back at my previous diet logs, I was at 110 carbs, about 60 fats, and the rest protein.

I think I'm going to shoot for 2200 cals, 130 g carbs, 250g fats, and about 75 g fats. Twice a week I'll reduce proteins by 100g and put carbs up by 100g to give myself a break from the high protein and keep cals the same. For now, I don't think I'll be messing with total calories until fat starts to stop dropping and then I'll do something to break the plateau. Maybe calorie cycling. I just don't see going down to 10 g fats and 1600 calories being good for maintaining muscle OR sanity.

Alexi

[JayScottFitness]

I don't like the sound of this. I can understand high activity on higher cals - some folks do well "exercising" off the calories and keeping them higher. Low calorie like 1650 would be accompanied by lower activity - but low cal and butt tons of cardio is a recipe for a marathon runner.

As far as what to do - look at science, and look at coaches that are backed by it. Read stuff by Layne Norton - that's a good start. Forget all the mumbo jumbo and get back to the basics. A bit of cardio, correct protein, carbs when you need them, enough healthy fats - then just bang out day after day of consistent eating/training. Get enough rest days etc.

Keep it simple - this guy is putting a "my way is the best way" type of mentality on you - just keep it simple with enough of all 3 macros: Protein, Carbs, AND Fats (not a fan of this 10g of fat idea).

Those are my opinions, take it for what it's worth. I did qualify for nationals in Bantam 3 years ago (although I would have been blown off the stage if I'd have actually went). haha.

Jay

[demonwareltd]

Ask your coach WHY he thinks you need to start out with so much cardio and such a steep caloric deficit. If he gets mad that you questioned him or can't provide a suitable answer, just drop him. You can get help with posing and peak weak strategies easily enough on these boards. You may get peeled with such a prep plan, but you will likely lose some muscle, feel like crap and have a metabolism in the ****ter at the end of it all. There is a HEALTHIER way to get to the conditioning you are looking for.

[AniMaLizTik]

wow. does he even mention HIIT of carb cycling? does he even internet?

[Breaktalents]

But who was unbalanced macros of peace?

[red_cat]

Ask your coach WHY he thinks you need to start out with so much cardio and such a steep caloric deficit. If he gets mad that you questioned him or can't provide a suitable answer, just drop him.

Bingo. You hired him. You're the customer. You have a right to ask him questions and get a satisfactory answer.