Squat Improvement?

[ImStarvinMarvin]

Please read whole thread if that's cool with you

Hey guys, I've posted a few threads about my squat form and all that, and the more advice I get from you guys, the better I get at 'em. Anyway, for those who don't know my situation, im tall (6'5) with long femurs and short torso - every squatters nightmare. lol but I believe that anything can be accomplished with effort and today I think I finally started hitting parallel/slightly even breaking parallel, on most of my squats.

I'll post 3 links below and I want you guys to know what you think. But first, a few things to know:

edit: feet got cut off for first two vids but they were flat on ground and fine. my main form issue is depth so i'm askin for a form check on that in particular

-Decided PL stance with lowbar works better for long legs than oly. oly full a2g squat is just not something that's gonna be possible for me without pain. I tried a few earlier in the month while working on form and my knees were just getting torn up. I find that parallel or a little lower works. as you see in the vids, part of my hammies are touching my calves - this is a huge accomplishment for me lol. i can do that while raising my heel of course but thats improper form. doing it with feet flat in PL stance is a first for me and im pretty happy i did it today.


-i'm aware that my knees go past my toes. some people say this doesn't matter, some people say it does, some say it's a myth, and all that good stuff, but that's just something that is simply gonna have to happen for my type of proportions. I haven't experienced anything negative as a result of knees going over and even a few people in the gym who were checking my squats said that knees going over is just what's gonna happen for someone with long femurs. it doesn't hurt my knees or add torque, so I'm completely fine with that.

-i'm also aware that my body folds over a bit. I do this to keep the barbell directly over my feet to keep balance, like Rippetoe suggests. plus my torso is tiny, so even if i bend just a slight amount, it's gonna look like a huge bend compared to my legs.

-u can't see it in video, but my spine does retain inward curve throughout every movement so that's good. it's actually hard for me to round my back cuz i have scoliosis, so I kinda see it as a blessing in disguise lol.

-and in my front view (form check 3) vid, i know i kinda rise on my heels a little bit, but I'm doing this to eliminate my old habit of rising on my toes. it'll look better with time lol. im trying to focus my weight throughout the foot.

- i sit only slightly back and then down, it seems to do the trick for me. is that an okay thing to do?

-my main concern and what I'm asking you guys to check is:

1. would you say the majority of these squats are definitely parallel? (hip to knee)

2. In the "form check 3" video, would you say my knees are following the same direction as my feet and not buckling in? (something I've had a problem with for awhile but today I didn't feel any buckling )

3. and do these look like pretty "decent" squats? don't get me wrong, I know these aren't 10/10 squats, but if you saw me doing these in your gym would you think im some douche doing partial squats or do i look like im hitting decent depth or parallel?

if there's any other suggestions you have, please feel free to let me know. but at the same time, I ask that you keep an open mind as far as my proportions. I don't want to hear about your 14 foot tall friend who can do full atg's or anything like that. I'm aiming for parallel only, atg is just murder on my knees. for some people it's not and for some it is. but 4 real, i love u guys lol.

and thank you in advance, your guys criticism and suggestions have helped a friendly giant come far with this movement.
for the first time after a squat workout, i can say that my lower back and knees don't hurt. what does hurt is my quads, calves, hammies, and the sides of my glutes. a sign that I'm doing it right? lol

here's the links. edit: if you pause at the bottom of each movement, it might be easier to judge depth that way. and some of em are shet, i'm still getting used to this movement, but i'm just asking if "most" of them are decent. thanks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8nVpQ3HAnU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAi4gWCF_6c please ignore the way i rack barbell at the end of this one lol i wasn't thinkin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydifsw7T25o


let me know what you think. again, they aren't perfect but I can feel em getting better !

[MikeDuck1]

I'm tall just like you (6'4") and I played Division-1 NCAA Football. The thing we did, which I feel like really helped my barbell squat, is a Box Squat.

I would put either a Plyo Box, or a Flat Bench, maybe with a few 45lb plates on top, and have the height just ABOVE parrallel, maybe a little higher if you're having trouble.

For me, this allowed me to FEEL what 400lbs felt like on my back without me having to go to that point of no return. Eventually I would remove the plates on the bench or box (To get an inch or so deeper) until I was doing a parrallel box squat, then eventually just removing the Box altogether.

I still use them as a nice change of pace exercise from time to time in order to slow my momentum to a complete stop, then explode out of it.

Best of luck in your training.

[CtGray84]

3rd vid looked ok. On the first 2 though you seem to be leaning forward and pushing your hips back before you start to squat, which I would think straight away transfers the majority of the weight to your back which isn't good.
It should be one fluent movement with a natural hip movement, not forced.
Try holding your chest out more and squatting straight down, don't lean forward cos with any significant weight on that bar and the way your hips push back ya gonna topple forward and do some serious damage.
I can see how it would be hard with long legs but your centre of gravity is too far forward with the form you are using. Bar position is much better in the 1st vid, I think you need to focus on the bar going straight down and keeping the weight distribution on your quads.
Would rarely suggest this but maybe you should try using a machine to squat for a bit. Might even be more beneficial for someone of your proportions if you struggle to maintain form on free weight squats. The machine squats won't replicate what a normal free weight squat should look like but it might help you get the feel for the correct movement and weight distribution and it will stop you leaning forward.
Concentrate one keeping your back in its natural arc and pushing your chest out. Hope that helps..

[ImStarvinMarvin]

I'm tall just like you (6'4") and I played Division-1 NCAA Football. The thing we did, which I feel like really helped my barbell squat, is a Box Squat.

I would put either a Plyo Box, or a Flat Bench, maybe with a few 45lb plates on top, and have the height just ABOVE parrallel, maybe a little higher if you're having trouble.

For me, this allowed me to FEEL what 400lbs felt like on my back without me having to go to that point of no return. Eventually I would remove the plates on the bench or box (To get an inch or so deeper) until I was doing a parrallel box squat, then eventually just removing the Box altogether.

I still use them as a nice change of pace exercise from time to time in order to slow my momentum to a complete stop, then explode out of it.

Best of luck in your training.

yea i do some box squats every week and they really do help a lot!

3rd vid looked ok. On the first 2 though you seem to be leaning forward and pushing your hips back before you start to squat, which I would think straight away transfers the majority of the weight to your back which isn't good.
It should be one fluent movement with a natural hip movement, not forced.
Try holding your chest out more and squatting straight down, don't lean forward cos with any significant weight on that bar and the way your hips push back ya gonna topple forward and do some serious damage.
I can see how it would be hard with long legs but your centre of gravity is too far forward with the form you are using. Bar position is much better in the 1st vid, I think you need to focus on the bar going straight down and keeping the weight distribution on your quads.
Would rarely suggest this but maybe you should try using a machine to squat for a bit. Might even be more beneficial for someone of your proportions if you struggle to maintain form on free weight squats. The machine squats won't replicate what a normal free weight squat should look like but it might help you get the feel for the correct movement and weight distribution and it will stop you leaning forward.
Concentrate one keeping your back in its natural arc and pushing your chest out. Hope that helps..

yea I didn't think about what it would be like with heavier weight :O i'll try to keep more upright then, thanks man!

[ImStarvinMarvin]

oh i almost forgot lol, would you say the depth is good though?

[jammyo40]

Embed the videos

[CtGray84]

oh i almost forgot lol, would you say the depth is good though?

yeh fairly good depth for a tall guy, i reckon you could go deeper though

[ImStarvinMarvin]

yeh fairly good depth for a tall guy, i reckon you could go deeper though

right on man, glad to hear. and i'll definitely work on getting even lower

[ImStarvinMarvin]

is it normal for someone new to squatting to feel slight pain behind the knee when i bend it? not really in the knee but like, the upper calf, close to the back of the knee

[tidnab]

Your bar positioning looks way, way off in the second video... Even if you're intending to do a low bar (PL-style squat) the bar should not be that low and your hands should not be bent like that. First video you seem to have more of a high bar position, but you are consciously leaning over in order to initiate the squat... you should not be doing that no matter what kind of squat you are doing. If you want to do PL style, sit back further with your ass. Do NOT just bend over at the waist.

[ImStarvinMarvin]

Your bar positioning looks way, way off in the second video... Even if you're intending to do a low bar (PL-style squat) the bar should not be that low and your hands should not be bent like that. First video you seem to have more of a high bar position, but you are consciously leaning over in order to initiate the squat... you should not be doing that no matter what kind of squat you are doing. If you want to do PL style, sit back further with your ass. Do NOT just bend over at the waist.

yea my bar positioning was whack but normally i have it just below my upper lats. i guess i wasnt paying attention lol. and with the bend thing, im confused. some people say dont do it, but others say u should and in Starting Strength, rippetoe says a PL squat is going to have forward lean. lean or no lean? lol

[ButcherPLer]

The farther foward you push your knees the harder it will be to hit depth. You can put your knees foward to the point that your knees are on the floor and still not hit depth. Why are you not squatting with a wider stance? The wider you squat, the less distance your hips have to travel behind your feet, assuming the same foward knee travel between the two styles. This will help you stay a bit more upright.

[ImStarvinMarvin]

The farther foward you push your knees the harder it will be to hit depth. You can put your knees foward to the point that your knees are on the floor and still not hit depth. Why are you not squatting with a wider stance? The wider you squat, the less distance your hips have to travel behind your feet, assuming the same foward knee travel between the two styles. This will help you stay a bit more upright.

yea im workin on better hamstring flexibility. where im at right now, if i go too wide my knees are gonna buckle in

[tidnab]

yea my bar positioning was whack but normally i have it just below my upper lats. i guess i wasnt paying attention lol. and with the bend thing, im confused. some people say dont do it, but others say u should and in Starting Strength, rippetoe says a PL squat is going to have forward lean. lean or no lean? lol

There WILL be forward lean, but that doesn't mean you should consciously try to bend over. Just sit back with your hips and keep the bar in a vertical path. When you bend over like that you are bringing the bar forward as well.