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  1. #1
    Registered User ironman1966's Avatar
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    dorian yates old routine

    here is a copy of dorian yates old routine he used when he first started training he said he used this routine for years and got good results with it . he did this routine 3 times a week ever other day mon-wed-fri, he would just repeat the cycle. let me know you think of this routine ?


    routine A
    chest
    bench press 2x6-8
    incline press 2x6-8

    back
    lat pulldown 2x6-8
    barbell rows 2x6-8
    dead lifts 2x6-8

    delts
    shoulder press 2x6-8
    side laterals 2x6-8

    routine B

    thighs
    squats 3x8-10
    leg press 2x10-12
    leg curls 2x10-12

    calves
    calve raises 2x10-12

    biceps
    barbell curls 2x6-8
    incline curls 2x6-8

    triceps
    push downs 2x8-10
    lying extensions 2x6-8

    day 1 routine A
    day 3 routine B
    day 5 routine A
    day 1 routine B
    day 3 routine A
    day 5 routine B

  2. #2
    Pro slacker jhunt2003's Avatar
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    if you can use the amount of intensity needed to make his routines work, then yes, this will definatley work.

  3. #3
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    yo man this works but with 3 sets

  4. #4
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    Originally Posted by ironman1966 View Post
    here is a copy of dorian yates old routine he used when he first started training he said he used this routine for years and got good results with it . he did this routine 3 times a week ever other day mon-wed-fri, he would just repeat the cycle. let me know you think of this routine ?


    routine A
    chest
    bench press 2x6-8
    incline press 2x6-8

    back
    lat pulldown 2x6-8
    barbell rows 2x6-8
    dead lifts 2x6-8

    delts
    shoulder press 2x6-8
    side laterals 2x6-8

    routine B

    thighs
    squats 3x8-10
    leg press 2x10-12
    leg curls 2x10-12

    calves
    calve raises 2x10-12

    biceps
    barbell curls 2x6-8
    incline curls 2x6-8

    triceps
    push downs 2x8-10
    lying extensions 2x6-8

    day 1 routine A
    day 3 routine B
    day 5 routine A
    day 1 routine B
    day 3 routine A
    day 5 routine B
    Would work if you're jacked up on anabolics, but I would say that it's under-classed overall. There isn't enough diversity in the routine (different exercises for the muscle groups)—and the weight:rep ratio is far too one-sided. Diversity is important because it controls how well-rounded your muscles develop. You need as much diversity as possible if you want the best possible development in your body. Each different exercise works the muscles in their own special way. And the culmination of that is what adds the flare to your development.

    Weight to rep ratio controls how well your muscles develop, as well as how quickly they develop. It also plays a crucial part in specific muscle fiber development. In summary, the key is to find the balance between weight and reps that makes for the greatest possible gains in your set. For example, if you're doing Machine Leg Presses, might notice that it takes a hell of a lot more out of you to push out 50 hard middle-weight reps—than it does to push out 4 (or even 6) heavy reps. There is a weight to rep ratio that defines the true intensity that's put onto your muscles. Any routine that keeps you in the shallow end of 6 to 8 reps is actually going to hold you back from a greater potential of development. You want to push into the 20 and 50 rep range for the best results. And that would be 20 or 50 hard reps to failure (where it's a hell of a struggle getting to that 20 to 50 mark).

    If you're jacked up on anabolics, then you're probably not going to notice the difference. The heavy 5-8 reps will come all too easy, and struggle of it is likely to blind you completely to a greater possibility. However, it's my best advice that if you're going to take anabolics, you do things the hard way (where the anabolics are going to brace you through it). Doing things the hard way naturally takes uncanny mental and physical endurance. So if that's the route you're going, try taking that routine of his and adding some dropsets and some 20-50 reps sets in place of the 3-6 reps. And even then, it's still missing a lot in the aspect of diversity. I work shoulders in their very own day (like Legs). In order to get a full shoulder workout in, you have to incorporate shoulder presses, lateral raises, front raises, bent-over shoulder raises, and shoulder shrugs at the very least. Just to give you an idea of what I mean there. If you want to use his old routine, you're going to need to fill in the blanks for best results.

    This is one of the things he learned from the old man (Joe Weider), when Joe took him up as one of his champions. He wasn't just his supplier *C%#@&H*, he also mentored him in the science of bodybuilding. This includes how the body works, how the muscles develop, and how to best develop them by working with the system. It's all very particular, and filling in these blanks are what ultimately filled Dorian Yates form into the hard-cut Ironman he came to be. It was a very impressive, compact, well-rounded form—that Dorian was able to perfect by applying the diversity I am talking about into his training. He did very well at it—and I hope that this helps to point you in the right direction as well.

  5. #5
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    All that matters is progression. If you can add weight to the bar on a consistent basis with enough volume, food and sleep then you will grow. With 4 sets per muscle, you could hit the muscle again in a couple days unless you're doing some Mentzer type **** on those few sets. I think this could work, but I really don't think it is optimal.

  6. #6
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    Originally Posted by xLostxAngelx View Post
    Would work if you're jacked up on anabolics, but I would say that it's under-classed overall. There isn't enough diversity in the routine (different exercises for the muscle groups)—and the weight:rep ratio is far too one-sided. Diversity is important because it controls how well-rounded your muscles develop. You need as much diversity as possible if you want the best possible development in your body. Each different exercise works the muscles in their own special way. And the culmination of that is what adds the flare to your development.

    Weight to rep ratio controls how well your muscles develop, as well as how quickly they develop. It also plays a crucial part in specific muscle fiber development. In summary, the key is to find the balance between weight and reps that makes for the greatest possible gains in your set. For example, if you're doing Machine Leg Presses, might notice that it takes a hell of a lot more out of you to push out 50 hard middle-weight reps—than it does to push out 4 (or even 6) heavy reps. There is a weight to rep ratio that defines the true intensity that's put onto your muscles. Any routine that keeps you in the shallow end of 6 to 8 reps is actually going to hold you back from a greater potential of development. You want to push into the 20 and 50 rep range for the best results. And that would be 20 or 50 hard reps to failure (where it's a hell of a struggle getting to that 20 to 50 mark).

    If you're jacked up on anabolics, then you're probably not going to notice the difference. The heavy 5-8 reps will come all too easy, and struggle of it is likely to blind you completely to a greater possibility. However, it's my best advice that if you're going to take anabolics, you do things the hard way (where the anabolics are going to brace you through it). Doing things the hard way naturally takes uncanny mental and physical endurance. So if that's the route you're going, try taking that routine of his and adding some dropsets and some 20-50 reps sets in place of the 3-6 reps. And even then, it's still missing a lot in the aspect of diversity. I work shoulders in their very own day (like Legs). In order to get a full shoulder workout in, you have to incorporate shoulder presses, lateral raises, front raises, bent-over shoulder raises, and shoulder shrugs at the very least. Just to give you an idea of what I mean there. If you want to use his old routine, you're going to need to fill in the blanks for best results.

    This is one of the things he learned from the old man (Joe Weider), when Joe took him up as one of his champions. He wasn't just his supplier *C%#@&H*, he also mentored him in the science of bodybuilding. This includes how the body works, how the muscles develop, and how to best develop them by working with the system. It's all very particular, and filling in these blanks are what ultimately filled Dorian Yates form into the hard-cut Ironman he came to be. It was a very impressive, compact, well-rounded form—that Dorian was able to perfect by applying the diversity I am talking about into his training. He did very well at it—and I hope that this helps to point you in the right direction as well.
    WOW everything you just said is wrong and not true.Absolutely cringeworthy

  7. #7
    Registered User magician27's Avatar
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    that guy pushed himself really very hard, if you can go beyond failure like him, then it may work. it is not always about high volume

  8. #8
    Banned xLostxAngelx's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by grlight View Post
    WOW everything you just said is wrong and not true.Absolutely cringeworthy
    C'mon man, don't just make an empty statement—at least explain the points you disagree with and why.

  9. #9
    Bulking Mdenatale's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by xLostxAngelx View Post
    C'mon man, don't just make an empty statement—at least explain the points you disagree with and why.
    The response in part is due to you using so many words to say so little and much of it is wrong.

    20-50 rep range may have its place for some exercises, but for the most part that is way out of the hypertrophy range and into the endurance range. If you can push a weight 50 times you aren't using enough weight. For a body builder there isn't much point in going above 15-20 reps for a single set. And a 6-8 reps range with constant progression can build a lot of muscle.

    Also, discussion of substance forbidden by the rules of the forum will get you banned so be careful.
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  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by Mdenatale View Post
    The response in part is due to you using so many words to say so little and much of it is wrong.

    20-50 rep range may have its place for some exercises, but for the most part that is way out of the hypertrophy range and into the endurance range. If you can push a weight 50 times you aren't using enough weight. For a body builder there isn't much point in going above 15-20 reps for a single set. And a 6-8 reps range with constant progression can build a lot of muscle.

    Also, discussion of substance forbidden by the rules of the forum will get you banned so be careful.
    You couldn't be more wrong there. I am not talking about an easy 50 reps—I am talking about 50 reps that feels like you're going to bust a lung. There is a strict emphasis on struggle when I talk about doing more reps, and it's actually the very thing that true champions are made of. If you don't believe me, go pick up some middle weight and try to bust out four sets to 20. Go put 225 on the leg press machine and see if you can get to 50 reps. If that's really too easy for you, try it with only one leg. You should find out exactly what I'm talking about here by experience. If you really want to break your limits, you absolutely have to stride into the higher rep ranges. Utilizing only 6-8 reps is an under-classed method of training, and it fails to touch of the greater aspects that make up the physical training and development of a true champion.

  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by xLostxAngelx View Post
    You couldn't be more wrong there. I am not talking about an easy 50 reps—I am talking about 50 reps that feels like you're going to bust a lung. There is a strict emphasis on struggle when I talk about doing more reps, and it's actually the very thing that true champions are made of. If you don't believe me, go pick up some middle weight and try to bust out four sets to 20. Go put 225 on the leg press machine and see if you can get to 50 reps. If that's really too easy for you, try it with only one leg. You should find out exactly what I'm talking about here by experience. If you really want to break your limits, you absolutely have to stride into the higher rep ranges. Utilizing only 6-8 reps is an under-classed method of training, and it fails to touch of the greater aspects that make up the physical training and development of a true champion.

    I'm not advocating everything be in the 6-8 rep range, but 50 reps is not productive. Of course 50 reps can be made difficult to complete, but that does not mean it was even close to optimal for muscle development. There is no science that supports what you are saying here, unless you have something I am unaware of. In that case please share.

    On a less scientific note, who are all these elite champions that are training with moderate weight and banging out 50 reps on a routine basis?
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by Mdenatale View Post
    I'm not advocating everything be in the 6-8 rep range, but 50 reps is not productive. Of course 50 reps can be made difficult to complete, but that does not mean it was even close to optimal for muscle development. There is no science that supports what you are saying here, unless you have something I am unaware of. In that case please share.

    On a less scientific note, who are all these elite champions that are training with moderate weight and banging out 50 reps on a routine basis?
    There is a science that dictates what I am saying is very true.

    Even in simple logic, more effort/more stress = more muscle fiber activation/more muscle fiber breakdown = more win.

    The harder you push yourself (and the longer you push it consistently) the greater your physical development is going to be.

    Simple as that.

    You should try this out for yourself and see how it works its magic for you. It's not easy, and it might bust you balls, but you'll start making dramatic progress so long as you're pushing yourself this hard.

    Team this up with dropsets and back-to-back routines, and you'll really start soaring high. If you're unfamiliar with these concepts, just click on my name and "visit webpage" to read about them in the Monster Manual I have created.

  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by xLostxAngelx View Post
    There is a science that dictates what I am saying is very true.

    .
    I'd be very interested to read the scientific evidence you mention. Can you post links to those studies?
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  14. #14
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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    I'd be very interested to read the scientific evidence you mention. Can you post links to those studies?
    Hate to break it to you like this, but this is such an obscure knowledge, that I don't have any official scientific reports to provide to you. You're going to just have to take my word on it. Unfortunately, I picked this knowledge up along the way—and my initial understanding of it is too vague to provide you with greater details on exactly what's going on when your muscles start arming themselves for resilience on the cellular level.

    I also suggest that you don't take the word of scientists or doctors too seriously. They are just like anyone else—they may lie to you—or give you false information. Not only that, but the nature of science (and scientific study) lies strongly on the foundation of confidentiality. Scientists deal very prominently with the practice of keeping the things they do, know, and learn a secret from others. This habit leads scientists to be a very unreliable (and untrustworthy) source of knowledge. It becomes second nature to them to keep these things a secret (or to lead people astray). This is supposed to be something they only apply lightly, in order to guard their secrets until they can get them out to market. Unfortunately, it's become a pop-culture for them, and that pop-culture has further degenerated into a very negative concept of intelligence hoarding and unethical misinformation.

    Try to trust me on this and give it a shot for yourself first before turning your nose up to it. I trust than in time you will see that what I am saying is true beyond all else.

  15. #15
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    Rep range is important sure, but you are forgetting about the cadence, the tempo, and time under tension.

    If you don't lockout, if you stay a little more at max. contraction, and if you move slowly, 8 reps with a heavy weight would be great for hypertrophy.

    What Dorian trains for and what HIT is all about is going to failure, not momentary, but absolute failure. When you can't push/pull more, try to do some more, try forced reps, try iso-hold etc.

    That program would work for anyone, because the key is consistency, and progressive overload. You do deloads if necessary, and work your way up.

  16. #16
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    Originally Posted by xLostxAngelx View Post
    Hate to break it to you like this, but this is such an obscure knowledge, that I don't have any official scientific reports to provide to you. You're going to just have to take my word on it. Unfortunately, I picked this knowledge up along the way—and my initial understanding of it is too vague to provide you with greater details on exactly what's going on when your muscles start arming themselves for resilience on the cellular level.

    I also suggest that you don't take the word of scientists or doctors too seriously. They are just like anyone else—they may lie to you—or give you false information. Not only that, but the nature of science (and scientific study) lies strongly on the foundation of confidentiality. Scientists deal very prominently with the practice of keeping the things they do, know, and learn a secret from others. This habit leads scientists to be a very unreliable (and untrustworthy) source of knowledge. It becomes second nature to them to keep these things a secret (or to lead people astray). This is supposed to be something they only apply lightly, in order to guard their secrets until they can get them out to market. Unfortunately, it's become a pop-culture for them, and that pop-culture has further degenerated into a very negative concept of intelligence hoarding and unethical misinformation.

    Try to trust me on this and give it a shot for yourself first before turning your nose up to it. I trust than in time you will see that what I am saying is true beyond all else.
    So you have nothing but your own opinion?


    Okay.





    ETA:

    And which scientists' work should I not take "too seriously?" Those whose efforts put a man on the moon? Or developed cures and preventatives for a multitude of common and often fatal diseases? How about the people who developed the internet protocols and the hardware that allow us to make posts on a bodybuilding website?



    Should I ignore the Cardiologist who repaired my granson's defective heart valve and thus giving him the opportunity to live a long and productive life?
    Last edited by ironwill2008; 11-24-2014 at 07:34 AM.
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

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  17. #17
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    You're misunderstanding. I am simply suggesting that you trust me on this and apply some discernment in regards to the information (or lack of information) you get from doctors and scientists.

  18. #18
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    Originally Posted by xLostxAngelx View Post
    You're misunderstanding.
    No. I'm not.


    You're touting 50-rep sets as the holy grail of building muscle. If that's your opinion, I have no problem with someone stating their opinion. But if you present that as some sort of "fact," then I expect proof, not that I "have to 'trust' you on this."



    There are several thousand current trainees logging their training in the 'workout journals' and 'O35 workout journals' subforums right here on this website. Go have a look through them, especially those from posters who have been training and journaling for a long period of time here, and who have impressive lifting stats and avatars/progress pics.


    How many of them are training with your 50-rep sets?
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

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  19. #19
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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    No. I'm not.


    You're touting 50-rep sets as the holy grail of building muscle. If that's your opinion, I have no problem with someone stating their opinion. But if you present that as some sort of "fact," then I expect proof, not that I "have to 'trust' you on this."



    There are several thousand current trainees logging their training in the 'workout journals' and 'O35 workout journals' subforums right here on this website. Go have a look through them, especially those from posters who have been training and journaling for a long period of time here, and who have impressive lifting stats and avatars/progress pics.


    How many of them are training with your 50-rep sets?
    How many of them are using anabolics? There is much more to be considered than sheer progress.

    If you really want to believe, get some experience and see for yourself.

    Here,

    Day 1

    Barbell Squat 4x25
    Leg Press 4x25
    Leg Extension 4x25
    Leg Curl 4x25

    Day 2

    Squat 3x50
    Leg Extension 3x50
    Leg Curl 3x50

    Give that back-to-back routine a shot just once and see how you come out on day four. You will see what I mean by experience.

    Sometime it can be hard to be taken away by people's progress. It can be demotivating at times to see people achieving unrealistic potential, while we grind and grind and seemingly get know where.

    Just be aware that there is a strict difference between natural and unnatural progress, where the key is to be able to identify when a person's progress is unnatural (or when their body is the product of unnatural development) and ignore them and their results. So long as we are training naturally, those conditions will never apply to us, and we will have to know how the system works—and work within the system to achieve our own impressive gains.
    Last edited by xLostxAngelx; 11-24-2014 at 08:38 AM.

  20. #20
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    Originally Posted by xLostxAngelx View Post
    How many of them are using anabolics? There is much more to be considered than sheer progress.
    LOL. Are you serious?

    I asked for clinical evidence supporting your claims. I received none.


    I asked for empirical evidence. I receive straw men instead.
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

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  21. #21
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    Originally Posted by xLostxAngelx View Post
    You're misunderstanding. I am simply suggesting that you trust me on this and apply some discernment in regards to the information (or lack of information) you get from doctors and scientists.
    Why would we trust what you are saying? You are just making statements with no back-up. Where are your results? How many natural lifters have you trained? Since you don't have science to back you up do you at least have anecdotal evidence?
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  22. #22
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    I'm truly sorry you feel that way old man, I was simply trying to help you see things in a greater light. Take it all for what you will. The information is all there in the Monster Manual (check my homepage)—it's up to you to take it as your own or not. I would never try to force it on you (even if I could)—I would like to believe it has to come from the heart (because that's what makes it true).

  23. #23
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    Originally Posted by xLostxAngelx View Post
    ....snip.......

    One more time; where's the evidence to support your claims?
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

    "The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon

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  24. #24
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    What does it matter at this point? You've all run my reputation into the worst possible rank simply because I tried to help you and help you see things in a greater light. Everything I've said is simply for speculation, make of it what you will—it's your freewill to believe or not. I respect that.

  25. #25
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    Originally Posted by xLostxAngelx View Post
    What does it matter at this point? .
    What does it matter?

    You've spammed this forum in multiple threads with 1000+ word posts about the value of 50-rep sets, but when asked to produce any kind of evidence at all, you resort to evasiveness and straw men. And you continue to be evasive.





    We both know why you're posting on this site. It won't be long before you're gone for good.
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

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  26. #26
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    Originally Posted by grlight View Post
    WOW everything you just said is wrong and not true.Absolutely cringeworthy
    Agreed. I'm shocked at how many things I can disagree with in a single post
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  27. #27
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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    What does it matter?

    You've spammed this forum in multiple threads with 1000+ word posts about the value of 50-rep sets, but when asked to produce any kind of evidence at all, you resort to evasiveness and straw men. And you continue to be evasive.





    We both know why you're posting on this site. It won't be long before you're gone for good.
    I don't have the evidence you're talking about. I am simply expressing my collective intelligence for speculation. From there it's up to you to either do the research yourself (wow, image that)—or give it a chance and learn from experience. I am not trying to force you to believe in me. I am simply trying to explain myself in further detail where and when you disagree. If logic doesn't win you over, let's just leave it at that.

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    Originally Posted by xLostxAngelx View Post
    I don't have the evidence you're talking about ... From there it's up to you to either do the research yourself (wow, image that)
    It's not our job to research your BS. The onus is upon you to back up your own claims ... or simply quit making BS claims.
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  29. #29
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    Originally Posted by xLostxAngelx View Post
    I don't have the evidence you're talking about. .

    Imagine that.
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

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  30. #30
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    Originally Posted by BeauFlexington View Post
    It's not our job to research your BS. The onus is upon you to back up your own claims ... or simply quit making BS claims.
    In a court of law, beyond my inability to prove them as true—my claims can't truly be considered BS unless YOU can prove them as so. Liability falls on both sides in cases like this (libel cases for example). Therefore, it's still unfair to take an aggressive stance and bash me unless you provide the same evidence which proves what I'm suggesting to be undeniably true.

    If that's how things work in a court of law, why should they be any different here?

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