Horribly underdeveloped region in underarm. Please help fix.

[kanis999]

From most angles, I'm ok with my body's progress, but there's a region that looks horrendously noobish imo. The area I'm referring to is my armpit area. I really want to bring this area up to boost my confidence.

Please look at the following pics (unflexed btw), and help me determine:

1. Which muscles specifically are causing this? My guess is triceps, rear delts, and upper traps. I don't believe lats are the root of the problem, but I may be wrong.

2. Is this area truly underdeveloped compared to everything else? (see avatar and newest progress pic for relative comparison to other body parts).

3. Is it too soon to be worried about fixing weak points? I've been training for 2 years.

4. What can I do to fix these areas? At the end of my last bulk, I could bench press over 250 lbs, so it is surprising to me that my triceps look so pathetic. But that was 5 months ago, I've been cutting for a very long time (was 20% bodyfat).

Pic 1 (side with arm raised, no flexing at all)



Pic 2 (back with arm raised, no flexing)



Reps for good helpful information.

[DCSpartan]

you are 165 lbs. That is what skinny looks like.

[kanis999]

you are 165 lbs. That is what skinny looks like.

Can you please translate that into advice? Are you saying that the area is not underdeveloped relative to the rest of the body and to simply be patient for a few more years? Cause when I look at myself from other angles, most of them don't look nearly as bad as that angle.

[sharpieblet]

Yo me it looks like triceps just need to be bulked up. Not that you look weak BC obviously you're not, but I know you're aware that you can be pretty strong with muscles that don't always look like they reflect your strength.

How much direct triceps work do you do? what kind of rep ranges? What's your split like?

It doesn't look bad, and I certainly wouldn't say it's to early to work on imbalances. Hell, I'm 149 lbs with only a couple years of consistent training and I'm working on imbalances myself.

I think your next bulk should make sure you are giving triceps decent volume 2-3x a week.

That's just my limited experience opinion.

Keep up the good work man.

[kanis999]

Yo me it looks like triceps just need to be bulked up. Not that you look weak BC obviously you're not, but I know you're aware that you can be pretty strong with muscles that don't always look like they reflect your strength.

How much direct triceps work do you do? what kind of rep ranges? What's your split like?

It doesn't look bad, and I certainly wouldn't say it's to early to work on imbalances. Hell, I'm 149 lbs with only a couple years of consistent training and I'm working on imbalances myself.

I think your next bulk should make sure you are giving triceps decent volume 2-3x a week.

That's just my limited experience opinion.

Keep up the good work man.

Thanks man.

Currently triceps are worked with chest and shoulders twice per week. They aren't getting much isolation. Only about 1 isolation set per workout, or 2 per week since I'm doing a lot presses and dips. Perhaps more isolation for them is warranted. I generally do 8-12 reps when isolating them, and alternate between an overhead extension and skull crush extension depending on which day of the week it is. I have recently learned to keep the elbows stationary to improve technique.

My general routine is based on a routine from the Workout Program stickies (will paste that at the end of this post). I have experiment a lot with different volumes and routines, and have determine that I respond best to lower volume. Higher volume routines, like those with 6-8 different exercises in one workout, really seem to slow my progress down. Unfortunately, I'm still cutting, so my triceps are going to continue to be small for another month or two. Can't wait to bulk again, but I want to start from 8% so I can bulk longer before getting chubby.

Here's the routine, quoting user N@tural1 (I added a second tricep isolation on day 4):

Day 1

4x Squats: 5 reps
3x Ham Work: 8 reps
3x BB or DB Row: 8 reps
2x Bicep Curls: 10 reps

Day 2

4x Bench Press: 5 reps
3x Military Press: 8 reps
3x Tricep Isolation: 8 reps
2x Ab/Calf Work: 15 reps

Day 3

4x Deadlifts: 5 reps
3x Pullups: 8 reps
3x Leg Press: 8 reps
2x Biceps Curls: 10 reps

Day 4

4x DB or Incline Press: 5 reps
3x Chest Dips: 8 reps
3x Side Lateral Raise: 8 reps
2x Ab/Calf Work: 15 reps

Day 1: On
Day 2: On
Day 3: Off
Day 4: On
Day 5: Off
Day 6: On
Day 7: Off

[sharpieblet]

Well when you bulk you may want to add some more volume to the triceps. I do triceps following chest a well, but I do 2-3 movements each for 2-3 sets on them. Of course when you're eating more you'll be able to tramp the volume up.

[kanis999]

Well when you bulk you may want to add some more volume to the triceps. I do triceps following chest a well, but I do 2-3 movements each for 2-3 sets on them. Of course when you're eating more you'll be able to tramp the volume up.

Sounds good man, I'd rep ya but I already did recently. I'm tired of small arms, so I really hope this works. I'm pretty sure that area with the red arrow in the first pic I posed is supposed to be comprised of the long head of the triceps instead of that flat flab. Next bulk = triceps, delts, upper chest, and upper traps. Pretty sure those 4 things are the the things I need the most.

[ironwill2008]

4. What can I do to fix these areas?

..... I've been cutting for a very long time .

Stop 'cutting,' start eating at a calorie surplus, and work hard to add more overall mass.

[kanis999]

Stop 'cutting,' start eating at a calorie surplus, and work hard to add more overall mass.

Thanks, I will soon. I have a tendency to put fat on very quickly while gaining mass, so I want to make sure I start the next bulk at a very low body fat % so that I can bulk steadily for a reasonable amount of time.

I put on this much fat in under 6 months, and that is way more fat than I am willing to tolerate. I needed to cut badly:

[ironwill2008]

.. and that is way more fat than I am willing to tolerate.

Understood. And that choice is always up to the trainee (unless he's a 17 year-old, 120 -pound toothpick).


Having a little extra body fat on board will help you to gain muscle though. Your body will be more inclined to add metabolically 'expensive' tissue (muscle) if the perceived threat of famine isn't present. That's just the way most of us are genetically coded to operate.

[-rEvolvEr-]

When I went from 200 to 255, my armpit area became riddled with stretchmarks. That was an area I never really viewed as weak or a specific concern, and when I got bigger everywhere else, it seemed to grow in line.

At your size I wouldn't be too concerned. If however, you gain some significant mass and still feel it's an issue then you should revisit it.

[kanis999]

Understood. And that choice is always up to the trainee (unless he's a 17 year-old, 120 -pound toothpick).


Having a little extra body fat on board will help you to gain muscle though. Your body will be more inclined to add metabolically 'expensive' tissue (muscle) if the perceived threat of famine isn't present. That's just the way most of us are genetically coded to operate.

Wow, I didn't know that, thanks for letting me know. I can't wait to bulk again, it is definitely far more enjoyable than cutting. I think I need to watch my diet more carefully when I bulk, especially towards the beginning of the bulk. I'd rep you too, but you also got rep from me too recently. Thanks.

[kanis999]

When I went from 200 to 255, my armpit area became riddled with stretchmarks. That was an area I never really viewed as weak or a specific concern, and when I got bigger everywhere else, it seemed to grow in line.

At your size I wouldn't be too concerned. If however, you gain some significant mass and still feel it's an issue than you should revisit it.

Damn dude you could probably throw me across the room lol. I hear what you're saying though. I need to get some more experience and bulking phases under my belt.

[Tillday]

Understood. And that choice is always up to the trainee (unless he's a 17 year-old, 120 -pound toothpick).


Having a little extra body fat on board will help you to gain muscle though. Your body will be more inclined to add metabolically 'expensive' tissue (muscle) if the perceived threat of famine isn't present. That's just the way most of us are genetically coded to operate.

Hey I represent that statement, plus a few years.

I won't try to comment on balance or training level as I don't have the experience to say.

As far as that area goes specifically, diet aside, the part directly behind the arm pit near the chest is the teres major I believe.
For a while I thought those were the 'lats' until I understood the lat extends well into the back and tried specifically to engage that region, and while I failed to properly stimulate the whole lat I did find a few ways to hit that area. The teres major is more of a 'helper' muscle to the lats and performs a similar function, it's the little lump by the pit you can see from the front when flaring your lats.

I feel the most stimulation there from close-grip, heavy lat work (rows and chinups), where when I'm triggering the full lat I go a bit lighter with a full, bent-over posture, I go heavy and use a slight lean foreward, maybe 45* forward from full standing, give or take, and pull to the waist, and I can feel that area doing a lot of the work, even if I don't touch my belly with the bar.

Triceps probably help to fill that area out as well, it's hard to know what exactly you feel is the weak part of it, it probably is just a symptom of overall physique though.

[DYTrainer]

[ironwill2008]

Hey I represent that statement, plus a few years.

.

I've seen your posts in this forum before, read your sig, and am aware of your issues.



My comment in my previous post was not aimed at you or anyone in a similar situation.

[TBU720]

Hey man your routine is majorly lacking in pulling movements for the upper body. I would add in lat pulldowns, face pulls, and seated rows with the wide neutral grip bar

If you only pick one exercise pick face pulls, as I think that they would most likely target the area you seem to be concerned about.

[Tillday]

I've seen your posts in this forum before, read your sig, and am aware of your issues.



My comment in my previous post was not aimed at you or anyone in a similar situation.

I know I'm just joking around.

[k9pit]

Pullovers

[Engineer_Guy]

you are 165 lbs. That is what skinny looks like.

Stop 'cutting,' start eating at a calorie surplus, and work hard to add more overall mass.

At your size I wouldn't be too concerned. If however, you gain some significant mass and still feel it's an issue then you should revisit it.

I am going to have to agree with these...

Hell, I'm 149 lbs with only a couple years of consistent training and I'm working on imbalances myself.

A couple of years of training and you're only 149lbs? You don't have imbalances at such a low body weight, everything is lagging.

[speedjason]

try a cable rows with close grip.

[chazzy1864]

DYTrainer already touched on it. I'm thinking your teres muscles are under developed. I've found they get most heavily emphasized during very wide grip pull ups.

[kanis999]

I am going to have to agree with these...

I agree too. I have years of bulking left in me. But now is not quite the time yet, because I won't suddenly drop my current goal of getting lean until I accomplish the goal. Once I hit that goal, I'll begin bulking. I've been planning this for over a year now. I am more concerned with the muscles I need to target than diet considerations. I guess I should have made that clear in the original post.

[Engineer_Guy]

I agree too. I have years of bulking left in me. But now is not quite the time yet, because I won't quit my current goal until it is done. I am more concerned with the muscles I need to target than diet considerations.

That's cool...FWIW I also agree with those that said you need more upper back work. Pull overs and wide grip pull ups being the best suggestions.

[kanis999]

That's cool...FWIW I also agree with those that said you need more upper back work. Pull overs and wide grip pull ups being the best suggestions.

Thx duder.

[CelticTheTruth]

rows...****load of rows

[kanis999]

What do you guys think of this routine for my bulk (begins in about a month)?

Notes

- (8/8/8/8), for example means 4 work sets (warmups are in addition to what you see here), each 8 reps. The boxes to the right are where I write down weight used and number of reps actually achieved.

- As I said before, I know without a doubt from experience that I respond to lower volume better than high volume.

- There are no flat bench presses because I have a shoulder injury. I really need to work on upper chest anyway.

- Tried to incorporate everyone's advice of incorporating more tricep and upper back work. I believe I have more volume for upper back and triceps than any other body part except perhaps front delts.

- Even though it says day 1, 2, 3, and 4, the days are actually spread out throughout the week. Each 'day' is performed once per week.

- I'm intentionally doing a program that has me hitting each body part twice per week because that's what is recommended in several stickies for people in the early-intermediate level, which I believe I'm in. Please don't tell me to do a really high volume advanced routine, because I know that's not appropriate for me.

- Pretty sure I have the diet I need. Going to eat about 300-500 over maintenance and get at least 200g of protein per day. I've tried higher surpluses in the past, but that has led to me gaining fat too rapidly, which I really want to avoid.