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  1. #1
    Registered User skyetrain's Avatar
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    Smile 16:8 Intermittent Fasting (IF) - 4 week experiment

    (this is my first forum contribution as a member of bodyspace - hurah!)

    <b>16:8 Intermittent Fasting</b> --- In every 24 hour period, 16 consecutive hours is spent fasting, 8 consecutive hours is spent feeding.

    <b>Fri 31st Aug --> Fri 28th September</b>

    For a period of 4 weeks, I am following the leangains intermittent fasting schedule (16:8) to assess the following:

    1. It's effectiveness as a means to reduce stubborn bodyfat

    2. Investigate claims that muscle retention is possible and muscle gains are commonly reported on this IF schedule

    3. Unexpected pros / cons that may not have been previously documented



    The 4 week exepriment begins and ends with a DEXA scan, and I'll be attributing all changes in body composition to be a direct result of the scheduled fasting.

    Prior to the commencement of the experiment, I had been following a very strict 6- meal per day, high protein / moderate carb diet - this was consistent for over 3 months. The foods and approx daily nutritional intake will remain almost identical throughout the feeding phase of the IF program - this eliminates the chance of body composition changes being attributed to the sudden onset of 'clean eating' which is how so many similar experiements are flawed and invalid. I keep detailed meal logs for every day, which I'd be happy to share if people are after more detail.



    My training will also remain identical to the previous 3 months, to again ensure no body composition changes can be a result of a new approach to exercise. I am weight training with a 4 day split as follows:

    Mon - Recovery

    Tue - Shoulders

    Wed - Recovery

    Thu - Recovery

    Fri - Back & Biceps

    Sat - Chest & Tricep

    Sun - Legs

    There are specific reasons why I am splitting my week this way (as I understand it goes against convention) but these reasons are in no way relevant to this experiment. Therefore I'll save you the details.

    PROGRESS INFO TO FOLLOW
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  2. #2
    LOCKED & LOADED PBateman2's Avatar
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    Probably better to start your log here:

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=553

    GL. Train hard.
    "I am strong because I've been weak. I am fearless because I've been afraid. I am wise because I've been foolish. I am confident because I've been uncertain. I have learned and will continue to learn. Be proud. Just never be satisfied. No stop. No quit. EVER." -MG

    Sponsored athlete/fitness model - *A1 Supplements *FitGR *LifeStrength Bands *Wilhelmina Fitness Models

    BTK...Bustin Ass. Every. Single. Day.
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  3. #3
    has no use for a name n0useforaname's Avatar
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    4 weeks doesnt seem long enough. And have you read leangains.com?
    Learning something new here every single day... and I'm still not sure if I understand : /
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  4. #4
    Registered User AlwaysTryin's Avatar
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    Is your food and macro intake identical to what it was prior?
    Yes... I've started a log - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=159357321
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  5. #5
    Registered User skyetrain's Avatar
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    1. Yes, I have read leangains. While I instinctively scoff at most of the concepts presented, I understand this is simply a knee-jerk reaction to new philosophies that challenge much of what I know and understand about 'proper' nutrition. This doesn't change the fact that I find the entire site and content to be a mess, and very difficult to find answers to the questions I have. Which is what prompted me to perform the experiment in the first place… then I realised it would prob be best to share it here. I think 4 weeks will be long enough to determine if the concept is drastically catabolic (which is my main concern) and if not, I may continue to 8 weeks.

    2. Yes, as stated, all my macros are very similar to what I was doing prior to the experiment. I won't say 'exactly', because that just couldn't be possible.
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  6. #6
    Registered User AlwaysTryin's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by skyetrain View Post
    2. Yes, as stated, all my macros are very similar to what I was doing prior to the experiment. I won't say 'exactly', because that just couldn't be possible.
    Why wouldn't it be possible?

    If they aren't exactly the same you can't conclude any results
    Yes... I've started a log - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=159357321
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  7. #7
    Registered User skyetrain's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AlwaysTryin View Post
    Why wouldn't it be possible?

    If they aren't exactly the same you can't conclude any results
    Ok for arguments sake let's say exactly.. However I think our opinions of 'exactly' may differ. I am ensuring my macro & calorie intake is as 'exact' as is humanly possible in contrast to my pre-experiment intake, but I don't claim to be flawless to the 0.01 grams / kj.

    This may in fact reveal some trivia about myself, in that I refuse to make promises I can't deliver!
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  8. #8
    #shreddingforstereo 752's Avatar
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    Goodluck OP, I used to eat at least 7 meals a day
    IF and IIFYM changed my life. Try it. Love it
    trance family
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  9. #9
    Registered User AlwaysTryin's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 752 View Post
    Goodluck OP, I used to eat at least 7 meals a day
    IF and IIFYM changed my life. Try it. Love it
    So you never counted macros/calories prior?
    Yes... I've started a log - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=159357321
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  10. #10
    #shreddingforstereo 752's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AlwaysTryin View Post
    So you never counted macros/calories prior?
    Yes, I trained 2 years. Ate only "Bro" foods, and wonder why I got fat eating brown rice.
    and wasted 1 year.

    Yes, Idiot

    Yes followed pros advice

    Yes his bigger than me means he knows more than me

    Yes regret.
    trance family
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  11. #11
    oh hai like wat u c? ricbig's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 752 View Post
    Yes, I trained 2 years. Ate only "Bro" foods, and wonder why I got fat eating brown rice.
    and wasted 1 year.

    Yes, Idiot

    Yes followed pros advice

    Yes his bigger than me means he knows more than me

    Yes regret.
    how'd you get fat may I ask
    boo hoo chacha is serious Biznazz
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  12. #12
    Registered User Tom550's Avatar
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    In.
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  13. #13
    Registered User MyronGaensBrah's Avatar
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    IN.

    I've also recently begun IF and i feel great. Getting leaner and bigger at the same time and all iv'e done so far was reverse dieting at about 200 cals below maintenance and have had 2 cheat meals. (1st one was the day before i started IF). I am transitioning back into a bulk today, I'm going to approach it Lean Gains style with a caloric surplus and deficit on training/off days respectively but with numbers i feel wont traumatize my metabolism (+ and - 20% above and below maintenance calorie wise i feel is too drastic even with my poverty maintenance calorie level of 2500. I'm going to be eating at a 100-200 caloric surplus on training days and at a 3-400 caloric deficit on non lifting days. I'm still thinking as to whether or not i will low carb it on rest days, as i seriously don't feel as though you need to on IF due to how god dam potent its fat burning potential is, but i will also be logging and recording my feelings and results, just not online. I am very interested to hear the thoughts/results of someone with a physique like yours OP try out IF for the 1st time too.
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  14. #14
    Brisbane Wrecking Crew BWC101's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by n0useforaname View Post
    4 weeks doesnt seem long enough. And have you read leangains.com?
    This.. and This
    I hate haters
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  15. #15
    Registered User AlwaysTryin's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MyronGaensBrah View Post
    Idue to how god dam potent its fat burning potential is
    explain
    Yes... I've started a log - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=159357321
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  16. #16
    Registered User skyetrain's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BWC101 View Post
    This.. and This
    Both addressed in detail in my pervious post.
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  17. #17
    Lack of iron &or sleeping SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    It takes you up to 2 weeks just to retrain yourself to the new meal pattern. Would like to see results over a much longer period.
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  18. #18
    has no use for a name n0useforaname's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by skyetrain View Post
    1. Yes, I have read leangains. While I instinctively scoff at most of the concepts presented, I understand this is simply a knee-jerk reaction to new philosophies that challenge much of what I know and understand about 'proper' nutrition. This doesn't change the fact that I find the entire site and content to be a mess, and very difficult to find answers to the questions I have. Which is what prompted me to perform the experiment in the first place… then I realised it would prob be best to share it here. I think 4 weeks will be long enough to determine if the concept is drastically catabolic (which is my main concern) and if not, I may continue to 8 weeks.
    .
    Originally Posted by skyetrain View Post
    Both addressed in detail in my pervious post.
    What I'm getting at is, Martin Berkhan has done more research than anyone (to my knowledge) on IF. You are NOT going to go catabolic.. and 4 weeks is not enough. He's already done multiple controlled study tests with blood work, etc.. And as of right now, IF is an eating protocol that allows people to eat more in one sitting, go out to eat, have more of a social life, etc.. and there is NO LONG TERM PROOF that IF yields any better gains. It's just another way for people to stick to their diet/goals by eating larger meals. If your macros/micros are close to what they are now, you won't notice a single difference in body composition. Only thing you might find better is training fasted (if you decide to do so).
    Learning something new here every single day... and I'm still not sure if I understand : /
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  19. #19
    Registered User Sabeen1991's Avatar
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    I've been using IF(16/8 or 18/6 + 1 full day fast/month) for the last couple of months and I can say it worked great. I used it to lose weight and combined with low-carb diet and the P90 program(mind that the X is missing... so i did the easy one). And I lost lots of wright. To be precise, 13KG(31lbs). Lean mass actually improved a bit.
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  20. #20
    Registered User skyetrain's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by skyetrain View Post
    (this is my first forum contribution as a member of bodyspace - hurah!)

    <b>16:8 Intermittent Fasting</b> --- In every 24 hour period, 16 consecutive hours is spent fasting, 8 consecutive hours is spent feeding.

    <b>Fri 31st Aug --> Fri 28th September</b>

    For a period of 4 weeks, I am following the leangains intermittent fasting schedule (16:8) to assess the following:

    1. It's effectiveness as a means to reduce stubborn bodyfat

    2. Investigate claims that muscle retention is possible and muscle gains are commonly reported on this IF schedule

    3. Unexpected pros / cons that may not have been previously documented



    The 4 week exepriment begins and ends with a DEXA scan, and I'll be attributing all changes in body composition to be a direct result of the scheduled fasting.

    Prior to the commencement of the experiment, I had been following a very strict 6- meal per day, high protein / moderate carb diet - this was consistent for over 3 months. The foods and approx daily nutritional intake will remain almost identical throughout the feeding phase of the IF program - this eliminates the chance of body composition changes being attributed to the sudden onset of 'clean eating' which is how so many similar experiements are flawed and invalid. I keep detailed meal logs for every day, which I'd be happy to share if people are after more detail.



    My training will also remain identical to the previous 3 months, to again ensure no body composition changes can be a result of a new approach to exercise. I am weight training with a 4 day split as follows:

    Mon - Recovery

    Tue - Shoulders

    Wed - Recovery

    Thu - Recovery

    Fri - Back & Biceps

    Sat - Chest & Tricep

    Sun - Legs

    There are specific reasons why I am splitting my week this way (as I understand it goes against convention) but these reasons are in no way relevant to this experiment. Therefore I'll save you the details.

    PROGRESS INFO TO FOLLOW
    WHY I AM DOING THIS

    Nutrition has been a huge part of my life for many years, both as a natural bodybuilder and as a personal trainer. I have achieved incredible results for both myself and my clients through the refinement of a high protein / low(ish) carb, frequent feeding methodology. These methods have helped me and others, on many occasions, achieve <5% total fat mass (verified on dexa - 3.8% being the record so far)

    I first read about Intermittent Fasting around 3 years ago, and like most people, I laughed out loud at such a preposterous concept. I had my methods that worked, and while I was still working hard to further refine them, I wasn't in the least interested in exploring a new concept that I had already written off as ridiculous.

    That was 3 years ago. The IF community has grown considerably, and the success stories are becoming hard to ignore. As a professional who prides himself on being at the forefront of nutritional science, it was no longer good enough for me to continue opposing the IF protocol without having some first hand experience with it.

    While I'm still skeptical, I'm approaching this with an open mind, prepared for it to go either way. I've spent hours reading many other peoples experiments, which either confirm or refute the protocols claims, and are seemingly dependant on the quality of control the individual has imposed on the experiment itself. I've found the majority of these to be flawed in some way, and for me this hasn't been convincing enough to form a rock solid opinion.

    I'll provide some detail surrounding exactly what my days & weeks will look like nutritionally, and offer progress reports on various other things as I see fit. The plan is to make it through the first 4 weeks, then re-assess at my dexa, with a view to continue for a further 4 weeks if I feel I'm retaining fat free mass. It's important to note that I have also had all blood work & hormones screened, so this data will also be provided on completion ONLY if changes are significant enough to warrant sharing.

    This is an experiment I'm undertaking for my own personal (and professional) reasons, and all this information would otherwise be kept for myself & clients. I'm sharing this as a goodwill gesture to the wider community, as some people may take some benefit from my experience.

    If for whatever reason you take issue with my methods, constructive criticism will be taken under advisement but it's unlikely changes will be made once I've begun.
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    If there's no proof IF will give better results, why would it matter if it's only 4 weeks?

    Good luck OP, looking forward to your results.
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    Registered User skyetrain's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sabeen1991 View Post
    I've been using IF(16/8 or 18/6 + 1 full day fast/month) for the last couple of months and I can say it worked great. I used it to lose weight and combined with low-carb diet and the P90 program(mind that the X is missing... so i did the easy one). And I lost lots of wright. To be precise, 13KG(31lbs). Lean mass actually improved a bit.
    Impressive result in 2 months!
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    Registered User skyetrain's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by n0useforaname View Post
    What I'm getting at is, Martin Berkhan has done more research than anyone (to my knowledge) on IF. You are NOT going to go catabolic.. and 4 weeks is not enough. He's already done multiple controlled study tests with blood work, etc.. And as of right now, IF is an eating protocol that allows people to eat more in one sitting, go out to eat, have more of a social life, etc.. and there is NO LONG TERM PROOF that IF yields any better gains. It's just another way for people to stick to their diet/goals by eating larger meals. If your macros/micros are close to what they are now, you won't notice a single difference in body composition. Only thing you might find better is training fasted (if you decide to do so).
    Understood. You're quoting content I have read, but the fact remains that I'm not entirely convinced, hence the personal experiment. The 4 week time frame is simply a 'fail safe', so I have the opportunity to abort if my FFM has dropped significantly at the 4 week scan.

    Social benefits are being observed.
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    It sounds to me like you are in a caloric deficit at this time and you are trying to lose weight? I am cuious if that is true how long have you been in that state? Take notes now on how you normally feel hunger wise on the plan you were on so you can compare it to the results you see with IF since in my opinion that is where you see the most results on IF. While I still feel hungry all of the time it is much less doing IF since it would get much worse once I would eat a small meal to spread my calories throughout the day. I think you will find that IF is a great tool if you or your clients have trouble keeping their calories under control!
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    Registered User skyetrain's Avatar
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    4 WEEK RESULTS ARE IN … But first…………...

    Before I detail body composition changes, I think it's necessary to provide an overview of how I've implemented my nutrition during the experiment VS the control period which extends for 8 weeks prior.

    The following details my daily nutrition, which has allowed me to MAINTAIN 10% bodyfat consistently for 8 weeks PRIOR to implementing IF.

    NON-TRAINING DAYS (Monday, Wednesday, Thursday)
    5:00am - Omelette (1 whole egg + 7 whites) w/ Spinach. 400ml Water + Fish Oil. Black Coffee.
    8:00am - Chicken & Vegetable Stir Fry (pre-cooked, single serve) Water.
    11:00am - Chicken & Vegetable Stir Fry (pre-cooked, single serve) Water.
    2:00pm - Fillet Steak w/ Raw Leaf Salad. Water.
    5:00pm - Chicken & Vegetable Stir Fry (pre-cooked, single serve) Water.
    8:00pm - Salmon Fillet w/ Raw Leaf Salad. Water.
    10:00pm - Protein Smoothie w/ Mixed Berries & Flaxmeal

    TRAINING DAYS (Sunday, Tuesday, Friday, Saturday)
    5:00am - Omelette (1 whole egg + 7 whites) w/ Spinach. 400ml Water + Fish Oil. Black Coffee.
    8:00am - Chicken & Vegetable Stir Fry (pre-cooked, single serve) Water.
    11:00am - Chicken & Vegetable Stir Fry (pre-cooked, single serve) Water.
    2:00pm - Fillet Steak w/ Raw Leaf Salad. Water.
    4:00pm - Pre-WO: 5g Creatine Mono, 10g BCAA
    5:30pm - Post-WO: 40g Vitargo, 40g WPI
    6:00pm - Chicken & Vegetable Stir Fry (pre-cooked, single serve) Water. Sweet Potato Mash.
    8:00pm - Salmon Fillet w/ Raw Leaf Salad. Water. Brown Rice.
    10:00pm - Protein Smoothie w/ Mixed Berries & Flaxmeal

    The following details my daily nutrition for 4 weeks DURING the 16:8 Intermittent Fasting protocol. I chose to fast between the hours of 10:30pm -> 2:30pm the following day. You'll notice I did a very good job of getting all my food in during the short 8 hour feeding phase - this was very difficult! It would have been easier to simply eat LARGER serves, but I needed everything to be perfectly comparable to my regular nutrition in order for the experiment to remain valid. (please acknowledge!)

    NON-TRAINING DAYS (Monday, Wednesday, Thursday)
    5:30am - AWAKE & FASTING
    2:30pm - Omelette (1 whole egg + 7 whites) w/ Spinach. 400ml Water + Fish Oil. Black Coffee.
    4:00pm - Chicken & Vegetable Stir Fry (pre-cooked, double serve) Water.
    6:00pm - Fillet Steak w/ Raw Leaf Salad. Water.
    7:00pm - Chicken & Vegetable Stir Fry (pre-cooked, single serve) Water.
    9:00pm - Salmon Fillet w/ Raw Leaf Salad. Water.
    10:30pm - Protein Smoothie w/ Mixed Berries & Flaxmeal

    TRAINING DAYS (Sunday, Tuesday, Friday, Saturday)
    5:30am - AWAKE & FASTING
    1:00pm - Pre-WO: 5g Creatine Mono, 10g BCAA
    2:30pm - Post-WO: 40g Vitargo, 40g WPI
    3:00pm - Chicken & Vegetable Stir Fry (pre-cooked, single serve) Water. Sweet Potato Mash.
    4:00pm - Omelette (1 whole egg + 7 whites) w/ Spinach. 400ml Water + Fish Oil. Black Coffee.
    6:00pm - Fillet Steak w/ Raw Leaf Salad. Water. Brown Rice.
    7:00pm - Chicken & Vegetable Stir Fry (pre-cooked, single serve) Water.
    9:00pm - Salmon Fillet w/ Raw Leaf Salad. Water.
    10:30pm - Protein Smoothie w/ Mixed Berries & Flaxmeal

    Specific cals/macros have been omitted as they aren't relevant and would only serve to make this post bigger than it needs to be. The important thing to note is my GROSS nutritional consumption REMAINS THE SAME - all values are derived from the SAME foods & recipes. Therefore the only thing that has CHANGED is meal timing. Actually during IF my training times also changed slightly to accommodate fasted training.

    I am still following the IF protocol with a view to continue for a further 4 weeks, extending the experiment for 8 weeks total. I have the results from the 4 week DEXA which I'll share when I get my blood work back, hopefully in the next day or so.
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    Originally Posted by skyetrain View Post
    Understood. You're quoting content I have read, but the fact remains that I'm not entirely convinced, hence the personal experiment. The 4 week time frame is simply a 'fail safe', so I have the opportunity to abort if my FFM has dropped significantly at the 4 week scan.

    Social benefits are being observed.
    This may go against conventional wisdom but one thing I've noticed about IF and training fasted is with it I have started to be able to put down a ridiculous amount of calories recently (on training days) and not put on scale "weight".

    Also, for me the main difference between training fasted vs non-fasted is that the energy training fasted comes moreso in a wave. What I mean is that when I start on my first exercise, I may be a bit sluggish but by the time I get to the second move for that day I'm amped as hell and the energy level stays that way for a long while before it taps out. Training non-fasted was more of a "I'm amped" for the first move and then the energy gradually dissipates.
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    Doesn't IF allow you to burn more fat than a traditional diet (3-however many meals) ? I thought I read on Martin's site that by the 16th hour of the fast your body is "running" on almost pure body fat.
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    Impressive physique. How long have you been lifting?
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    Originally Posted by k9pit View Post
    This may go against conventional wisdom but one thing I've noticed about IF and training fasted is with it I have started to be able to put down a ridiculous amount of calories recently (on training days) and not put on scale "weight".

    Also, for me the main difference between training fasted vs non-fasted is that the energy training fasted comes moreso in a wave. What I mean is that when I start on my first exercise, I may be a bit sluggish but by the time I get to the second move for that day I'm amped as hell and the energy level stays that way for a long while before it taps out. Training non-fasted was more of a "I'm amped" for the first move and then the energy gradually dissipates.
    Your description of training energy being like a gradual 'wave' is similar to what I have observed. I'll go into further detail with this over the coming days. This was quite a surprise for me.
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    Registered User skyetrain's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SayMilesAway View Post
    Doesn't IF allow you to burn more fat than a traditional diet (3-however many meals) ? I thought I read on Martin's site that by the 16th hour of the fast your body is "running" on almost pure body fat.
    So says the theory..
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