Rogue R3 - The good , The bad and The ugly - Review

[MYWAYORHIGHWAY]

Received R-3 rack today , this is just a quick initial review , I will follow up later with much more detailed review and photos after Rogue will sort out some issues here and after I will bolt it down to a plywood platform and use it .

THE GOOD -
* Shipping - Dispatch by Rogue was very fast , I don't think there are many other manufacturers out there , if any , who can dispatch a rack so quickly after the customer place the order .
* Packaging - Very good ,arrived secured on a pallet , and everything other than the side panels - (pull up bar , monkey bar , bolts , pegs , pins , pipes etc.) was boxed and protected very well .
*Assembly - basically 4 bolts (or 8 in case you get it with monkey pull up bar as I did) and you are done , doesn't get any easier .
It's a 5 minutes job or even less if you use impact driver to tighten the bolts .
* Rack itself - Honestly , I'm not a huge fan of Rogue products in general as most of them are made for the Crossfit crowd and their needs , and I'm really NOT into this Crossfit stuff , but this is not the case with this rack .
This is flat out a powerlifting rack , and it doesn't just have the Westside name and sticker on it for hype or marketing purposes , they actually use this rack (or other VERY similar rack) over there , you can see it in the Westside videos on Youtube .
The design and features on this rack - like hole spacing , pin-pipe safeties , pull up bars , are outstanding .
I know some people are worried about the depth of the rack , but I don't anticipate any issues whatsoever , seems more than enough .
Obviously I didn't use the rack for lifting yet so my opinion my change in the future after I do , but I did assembled the rack just to make sure there aren't any other issues before contacting Rogue , and the rack doesn't seem too"tight" at all in terms of the depth , seems pretty much perfect .

THE BAD -
* Missing parts - 2 lock washers and 1 flat washers missing , and much more importantly - the J- cups were missing as well .
The missing washers are annoying it wasn't a big deal , on the other hand , the missing J-cups , that some pretty big screw up right there that preventing me from actually using the rack .
* Fit and finish \ construction - it's not "bad" by any mean , but I can't put it in the "THE GOOD" either .
The fit and finish overall is decent , but nothing amazing ,and in terms of construction\welding , let just say it's nowhere near as clean , straight and beefy as the welds on the used Precor Icarian equipment I received recently for example, again , it's not terrible by any means whatsoever , but it's not amazing either .

THE UGLY -
* One of the side panels arrived with tons of rusting inside the steel tubing, I'm REALLY not sure how this **** left the factory in this condition . (the other panel is fine)

As for the resolution of these issues , already contacted them regarding the missing j-cups , they responded very fast and said they will ship them on Monday , but it seems like we have a "little" disagreement regarding the rust , first guy who responded to my email thinking it's perfectly normal to receive a $1000 brand new equipment rusting straight out of the pallet .
Rogue seems like a good company , so I believe they will eventually do the right thing here and sort it out , I know I will keep working on it to make sure it will happen .

[KBKB]

Thanks for posting your review.

I'm looking forward to hearing about the rest of your experience with getting the various issues sorted out.

[MYWAYORHIGHWAY]

Thanks for posting your review.

I'm looking forward to hearing about the rest of your experience with getting the various issues sorted out.

No worries , I will definitely update this thread with any progress

BTW - here is a photo of the rusting , Rogue claimed it is "completely normal"



Completely normal my ass , let me know what you guys think about it

[rthawker]

I'm sorry to say but I would consider minor surface rust like that to be fairly normal especially in a humid location. Now if it were pitted and compromising the integrity if the steel I would be pissed but as long as it stays dry it shouldn't get any more severe.

[jackbravo]

I think the issue is when you pay for something that expensive, you want to come to your house in pristine condition. The thing should be cellophane wrapped until you get your hands on it. In reality though, it's unlikely to make a difference in the function. For example, I got a rogue cambered bar (CB-1) and there two tiny spots on the inside of the colors that are not powder coated.

[MYWAYORHIGHWAY]

I'm sorry to say but I would consider minor surface rust like that to be fairly normal especially in a humid location. Now if it were pitted and compromising the integrity if the steel I would be pissed but as long as it stays dry it shouldn't get any more severe.

Let me get it straight man , you wouldn't be pissed if you pay $1000 for brand new rack and get totally rusted steel tubing ? you basically say you would only be pissed if the rusting would be so severe enough to **** up the entire structural integrity of the rack ?

Maybe I'm crazy , but when I pay $1000 on an item (ANY type item , not only gym equipment) , it better arrive in a reasonably good condition both structurally and cosmetically
I have reasonable expectations and have no issue with few dings and scratches when it comes to heavy item like power rack , and this rack came with few very ugly ones , but I won't accept receiving a side panel totally rusted inside the tubing .
If they can't control the humidity properly in their factory , that's their problem not mine , but either way I don't think this is issue here , because the other panel arrived with no rusting inside the steel tubing

BTW - the rusting look way worse in person than it look in the photo .

[MYWAYORHIGHWAY]

I think the issue is when you pay for something that expensive, you want to come to your house in pristine condition. The thing should be cellophane wrapped until you get your hands on it. In reality though, it's unlikely to make a difference in the function. For example, I got a rogue cambered bar (CB-1) and there two tiny spots on the inside of the colors that are not powder coated.

I understand what you are saying man , but I have VERY reasonable expectations , I certainly don't expect to receive a power rack in a ****ing Mona Lisa condition , but I have a limit on what I'm willing to accept as a "brand new" condition , and this rusting pushed it way over the limit .

You are talking about some "two tiny spots" with a $295 item , I'm talking about $1000 item with decent amount of "spots" and deep scratches on the rack panel , and rusting from top to bottom all over inside the steel tubing , there is quite a difference here man .
I didn't give a **** about these scratches and the dings because this is somewhat reasonable damage you expect with any heavy item shipped freight on a pallet and abused in transit, but this ugly rusting is unacceptable as far as I concerned , this is not some used **** I bought from some bum on Craigslist for $100 , that's a $1000 brand new rack purchased directly from the manufacturer , there is simply not excuse for that .

[Iakovos]

That rusting looks bad to me and I would be really pissed as well. I have thankfully never had to deal with that kind of trouble with any of the "lower end" brands like body solid, powertec and York barbell that I've bought from in the past. To me that metal is in unacceptable condition.

Op don't hesitate to keep sticking up for yourself, I'm confident rogue will take care of this. Still, if the company was telling me this was "normal" and to deal with it, I'd be looking to send it back and be done with it.

[qaz123]

Steel tube rusts inside soon after it is milled, at least to some extent.

Most companies are smart enough to squirt some powdercoat powder up the end of the tube though.

[jackbravo]

I understand what you are saying man , but I have VERY reasonable expectations , I certainly don't expect to receive a power rack in a ****ing Mona Lisa condition , but I have a limit on what I'm willing to accept as a "brand new" condition , and this rusting pushed it way over the limit .

You are talking about some "two tiny spots" with a $295 item , I'm talking about $1000 item with decent amount of "spots" and deep scratches on the rack panel , and rusting from top to bottom all over inside the steel tubing , there is quite a difference here man .
I didn't give a **** about these scratches and the dings because this is somewhat reasonable damage you expect with any heavy item shipped freight on a pallet and abused in transit, but this ugly rusting is unacceptable as far as I concerned , this is not some used **** I bought from some bum on Craigslist for $100 , that's a $1000 brand new rack purchased directly from the manufacturer , there is simply not excuse for that .

sorry dude. i just meant to say i understand your frustration because i felt a twinge of pain when i saw my bar, yet i saw past it. definitely, though, if i'd spent 1000$ i'be raving. i DO want my new equipment in pristine mona lisa condition. good luck.

[ProtienandIron]

Good review OP. I can see why you are annoyed about the rust issue, and you seem reasonable enough about it. With a bit of luck you'll get a little bit knocked off as a good will gesture, but I personally wouldn't think of returning it just because of that. You could improvise something like an old feather duster or a firm sponge on the end of a broomstick coated in 3in1 oil. Stuff it down the tube a few times and it will get the worst of it off, and help prevent further rust. You shouldn't really have to, but thats life sometimes.

This may be a bit of a learning point for Rogue as much of this can be resolved by just a quick squirt of powder down the tube during the coating process as qaz mentioned.

[Skidmarx]

That rust is nothing to worry about. You'll be long dead before it affects the integrity of the rack.

[donforeman]

Another reason Rogue should stop using those cheap plastic end caps! All the items I build at home get welded in caps its only a few minutes of time and a few bucks in material. Yes I have had metal come like that straight off the rack at the steel place. At the steel place they do knock a few dollars off for minor rust though and it wont hurt anything.

[Cleveland33]

Let me get it straight man , you wouldn't be pissed if you pay $1000 for brand new rack and get totally rusted steel tubing ? you basically say you would only be pissed if the rusting would be so severe enough to **** up the entire structural integrity of the rack ?

Maybe I'm crazy , but when I pay $1000 on an item (ANY type item , not only gym equipment) , it better arrive in a reasonably good condition both structurally and cosmetically
I have reasonable expectations and have no issue with few dings and scratches when it comes to heavy item like power rack , and this rack came with few very ugly ones , but I won't accept receiving a side panel totally rusted inside the tubing .
If they can't control the humidity properly in their factory , that's their problem not mine , but either way I don't think this is issue here , because the other panel arrived with no rusting inside the steel tubing

BTW - the rusting look way worse in person than it look in the photo .

I'm trhawker - that looks perfectly reasonable to me. If it looked like that on the outside, then I would be upset.

[Stasher1]

That rust is nothing to worry about. You'll be long dead before it affects the integrity of the rack.

Another reason Rogue should stop using those cheap plastic end caps! All the items I build at home get welded in caps its only a few minutes of time and a few bucks in material. Yes I have had metal come like that straight off the rack at the steel place. At the steel place they do knock a few dollars off for minor rust though and it wont hurt anything.

I'm trhawker - that looks perfectly reasonable to me. If it looked like that on the outside, then I would be upset.

X2 to all of the above. Lots of steel arrives from distributors looking just like your pic, both inside and out. It's just mild surface rust on untreated steel, and it's just one of the joys of working with that particular material.

[MYWAYORHIGHWAY]

Another reason Rogue should stop using those cheap plastic end caps! All the items I build at home get welded in caps its only a few minutes of time and a few bucks in material.

There are no plastic end caps on this rack , and even if there was steel welded at the top to seal the tubing (ANY $1000 rack should come steel cap welded , not only for "esthetic" reasons but for acoustic ones as well as it can reduce the noise and vibration quite a bit) , I would still easily see this rusting **** through the holes , they couldn't hide the rusting no matter how they closed the top

That rust is nothing to worry about. You'll be long dead before it affects the integrity of the rack.

As I said before , I'm not worried at all about the structural integrity here , but it doesn't mean I'm going to accept ****ty fit or finish and rusting in a brand new $1000 rack , or any $1000 item , doesn't matter if it's electronics , vehicle , furniture , sport equipment or whatever

Lots of steel arrives from distributors looking just like your pic, both inside and out.

That's exactly the issue here , I didn't purchased some raw square steel tubing straight out the distributor or the steel mill , I purchased a brand new finished product straight from the manufacturer
If they want to send me a raw product instead , they should either take it back and finish it or knock 25% off the total price I will either just live with it or get gallons of rustoleum and some good respirator masks and finish their job myself
I'm willing to compromise , but what I'm not willing to do is to pay full price on brand new finished equipment and to receive it in an unfinished ugly condition


I must say I find it VERY strange that some of you consider it normal , I can only wonder if anyone here who own expensive high end racks such as Legend or EliteFTS received them totally rusted inside straight out of the pallet and would consider it acceptable just because it won't **** the integrity of the steel
I would be amazed if anyone here who actually spent his hard earned money on these rack would seriously answer the question above with yes

[Vmango]

OP - I mean this is the most non-offending manner, but you strike me as a really hard guy to please. Listen, I fully understand your perspective here but is it that big of a deal having some slight surface rust INSIDE your tubes? Will you ever even see the rust once the rack is put together and operational? You also had issues with your Pendlay bar that you voiced on the forum. The R3 is like a $650 rack (American) and I for one am more than happy to save the $$$ it would cost to paint/coat the inside of the rack. You're gonna be lifting hard on this thing anyway and I would suspect it will get dinged up in no time, anyway.

I'd give Rogue a bit of a chance to dialogue with you on this one before you go ripping them on a public forum. Sit back, have a beer, and just give them a few days. Based on everything I know and what has been posted previously, Rogue's CS is second to none. Maybe this rust is normal with these racks and perhaps some of the other equipment guys can chime in.

MY experience with ordering equipment is that there's often a little scratch or something wrong that occurs during shipping. While I understand you may not accept that I tend to relax and accept it as part of the deal. I do try and pick stuff up when possible which is why I picked up my last bar from Garage Iron in person. Hey, the bar had a slight scratch on the black oxide but no biggie - I'm gonna be pounding on that bar 4-5 days a week and it's gonna get dinged up.

[Accutron]

...and in terms of construction\welding , let just say it's nowhere near as clean , straight and beefy as the welds on the used Precor Icarian equipment I received recently for example, again , it's not terrible by any means whatsoever , but it's not amazing either .

...

Can you take a picture of the welds so I can see, out of curiosity? Ive seen some excellent welds that look like a stack of quarters or whatever the term is, and some blob welds like on my powertec.

Sorry you arent happy, dont let people tell you that you are difficult to please, or set the bar too high. Basic service such as including j-hooks, and washers should be simple for a company to remember.

The racks ship fast because they are all pre-made and all one color, so they just throw it in with the next day deliveries. Nothing really that special there.

Re the rust hope it works out well for you, pls post an update.

[MYWAYORHIGHWAY]

OP - I mean this is the most non-offending manner, but you strike me as a really hard guy to please. Listen, I fully understand your perspective here but is it that big of a deal having some slight surface rust INSIDE your tubes?

No worries brother , no offense taken , it's possible that I gave the impression of "hard guy\customer" , but this is really not the case , I'm very easy customer to deal with who make hundreds of online orders each year with virtually no issues whatsoever , heck , with the exception of MD Canada and Rogue , I don't even remember when was the last time I had to deal with a retailer\manufacturer customer service .
As for the Pendlay , I had issue with MD Canada , not Pendlay or MD USA, I called them out here for a good reason , and MD USA themselves fully agreed with me .
As for Rogue , not only I did not ripped them , I actually praised them quite a bit not only in this thread , but also in the other olympic bar thread , and this review right here, which is mostly positive overall , is just me calling it like it is , that's how I roll , if I'm going to write a review it's going to be a legit one that will help people , not some phony positive one just to please the company and the company followers .

The answer to your question would be yes , it is a very big deal to have significant amount (not slight by any means , the photo just doesn't do it justice) of surface rusting inside the steel tubing of $1000 brand new item (you said "The R3 is like a $650 rack " , not sure where you saw the $650 price tag man , it's $700 before shipping on the US Rogue website and the one I purchased was $1000 with the monkey bar before shipping on the Canadian Rogue site)

Can you take a picture of the welds so I can see, out of curiosity? Ive seen some excellent welds that look like a stack of quarters or whatever the term is, and some blob welds like on my powertec.

Sorry you arent happy, dont let people tell you that you are difficult to please, or set the bar too high. Basic service such as including j-hooks, and washers should be simple for a company to remember.

The racks ship fast because they are all pre-made and all one color, so they just throw it in with the next day deliveries. Nothing really that special there.

Re the rust hope it works out well for you, pls post an update.

No problem man, I will take photos of the welds on the Rogue and Precor Icarian as well for comparison and post them later , nothing wrong with the Rogue welds , it's just the welds on the Icarian look way better
Appreciate your support man , I definitely don't think I'm difficult by any means , I will post updates for sure

[AttyGuy]

I'd give Rogue a bit of a chance to dialogue with you on this one before you go ripping them on a public forum.

Too many today rush to judge and post their whines on the internet. How many times does someone have to say, "Mistakes happen. All the time. How people -- the vendor and the purchaser -- deal with mistakes is what matters."

Stop bitching and get on the phone with Rogue to get this worked out. You may have a point, you may not. I'm not seeing how you've worked the issue to the point of an impasse with you and Rogue, let alone that your view the more reasonable of the two.

I must say I find it VERY strange that some of you consider it normal , I can only wonder if anyone here who own expensive high end racks such as Legend or EliteFTS received them totally rusted inside straight out of the pallet and would consider it acceptable just because it won't **** the integrity of the steel
I would be amazed if anyone here who actually spent his hard earned money on these rack would seriously answer the question above with yes

Your one image is poor and mostly out of focus. It would appear that thers is some surface rust on the inside. I don't know. I'm not there and I can't see it in person. I have seen my share of new and used equipment, from a variety of companies and of varying levels of quality. From what I see it doesn't appear to be an unreasonable amount for a $500, $1,000 or $2,000 rack.

[jormone]

Is there a cheap way for manufacturers to solve this problem, since the coating inside the tube doesn't have to be as durable as the outside?

I don't think there is anything wrong with posting facts and personal impressions, and it is just a fact that he bought something new with a lot of rust. What else do you buy for $1000 that is brand new and covered in rust or that has rust chips leaking out of it?

[AttyGuy]

I don't think there is anything wrong with posting facts and personal impressions, and it is just a fact that he bought something new with a lot of rust. What else do you buy for $1000 that is brand new and covered in rust or that has rust chips leaking out of it?

On a certain gun forum, there are many "fit and finish" whiners who complain about similar issue on more expensive tools than $1,000 power rack. I'm not saying the OP doesn't have a beef. I'm saying that he needs to work the issue with the manufacturer and his view of what is unacceptable may be unreasonable.

[twodog]

To be honest, whether it's acceptable is subjective, and in the eyes of the beholder. What's not subjective, and is fact, is that almost all raw metal get a coating of rust. If you work on metal, you accept it. The inside could be coated, but it would be an added expense that most people don't care for. This is the fact of working with raw steel or iron.

I work with metal and understand what happens to it, and sadly, it's acceptable to me.

If you really need it taken care of, contact Bill Henninger, he wants all customers of Rogue to be happy. Good luck.

[MYWAYORHIGHWAY]

On a certain gun forum, there are many "fit and finish" whiners who complain about similar issue on more expensive tools than $1,000 power rack. I'm not saying the OP doesn't have a beef. I'm saying that he needs to work the issue with the manufacturer and his view of what is unacceptable may be unreasonable.

Yeah , I know exactly the type of "whiners" (whiners like me ?) you talk about , there are tons of them on some internet knife forums as well , but the thing is for every single whiner you have , you also have these type of trolls\douchebags\armchair advocates who coming like vultures to any thread where customer raise even the most legitimate complaint or issues on item\vendor\manufacturer and totally downplay it like it's absolutely nothing and act like the person is crazy for complaining .
Here is some typical **** I always see - "OP- my $400 brand new folder came with a broken tip , terrible grind and more lock wiggle than $5 gas station knife" , an than you will have almost immediately some douche bag reply basically call him spoiled bitch for complaining , because he can't expect a $400 production knife to come perfect out of the box , and to just fix everything himself or live with it .
I don't know what worse , the "whiners" , or this other type of clowns I described above , same clowns that would call me crazy for complaining about not only the rusting , but also on the missing washers and j-hooks , after all whats the big deal I can just go to Fastenal to buy some washers and than just stop at the local metal fabricator and pay him to make j-hooks instead of complaining about the missing ones .

BTW - What exactly made you think that I didn't or that I don't try to "work the issue with the manufacturer" ?

To be honest, whether it's acceptable is subjective, and in the eyes of the beholder. What's not subjective, and is fact, is that almost all raw metal get a coating of rust. If you work on metal, you accept it. The inside could be coated, but it would be an added expense that most people don't care for. .

I understand what you are saying man, obviously there is no argument why raw steel can rust , it's not rocket science , but again as I said before , I didn't paid for a raw equipment or raw steel tubing for some home made project, I paid for a finished brand new product .
The added expense to powder coat the interior of the tubing is absolute peanuts , this is just regular powder coating , not some expensive ,exotic coating like Diamond Like Carbon coating .


Either way , I will stop beating this dead horse here , acceptable\normal or not is up to the person who paid the cash , I will just update the thread later in case there is any decent development , and obviously will keep updating the review and add photos as well after everything will be sorted out and the rack will see some use

[twodog]

acceptable\normal or not is up to the person who paid the cash , I will just update the thread later in case there is any decent development , and obviously will keep updating the review and add photos as well after everything will be sorted out and the rack will see some use

Amazingly, if you go to the crossfit.com forums you will find more than a few people that have been dissatisfied with their products, and alot have had rude CS reps as you. But when it's posted and comes to the attention of the owner, Bill Henninger (who reads the xfit posts), it always gets resolved. You should keep after them until you are satisfied. Good luck and enjoy the rack !

[irongrandpa]

the only problem i ever had , rogue responded quickly with outstanding service. OP, hope your issues are resolved as well as mine were.

[MYWAYORHIGHWAY]

Amazingly, if you go to the crossfit.com forums you will find more than a few people that have been dissatisfied with their products, and alot have had rude CS reps as you. But when it's posted and comes to the attention of the owner, Bill Henninger (who reads the xfit posts), it always gets resolved. You should keep after them until you are satisfied. Good luck and enjoy the rack !

Yeah , you are absolutely right , I actually searched a little bit at the crossfit forums and saw exactly what you are talking about
I know they usually respond quickly even during the weekends to questions , but so far no one answered after I called bull**** on the "completely normal" , I will wait until tomorrow night after I will be back from work , if the issue is still ignored , I will contact Bill directly and let him sort it out , I will get it resolved either way and no matter what , thanks for the help man

the only problem i ever had , rogue responded quickly with outstanding service. OP, hope your issues are resolved as well as mine were.

Well they resolved previous issue I had with another order very quickly too , but it was just something minor comparing to this issue I have right here , this is a much bigger and more expensive issue to resolve

[sherman]

You just stepped on the wrong snake. If you bought a Bowflex and found a scratch the size of an ant's pinky, the "no big deal" bunch would all have your back.

[ProtienandIron]

Come on sherm these outbursts are doing you no favours.

[AttyGuy]

BTW - What exactly made you think that I didn't or that I don't try to "work the issue with the manufacturer"

I read your original post, OP. I gather that you e-mailed them and complained. Now Rogue is providing the j-hooks and, I assume, the missing washers, etc. Did you provide images of the rust? It doesn't appear that you did and the one image you have is inconclusive. I've seen surface rust on new equipment before. Yours may have a reasonable amount, or not, of surface rust. Importantly, you don't indicate that you made more than one or two attempts, at the time of your initial post, to resolve the issue. Nor do you indicate that you provided additional evidentiary support for your position, beyond a not very good photograph.'

You may be right, or you may not be. I don't how many more times I can make the point that your one photo posted here is not sufficient for a reasonable person to conclude that the amount of surface rust is unreasonable. Getting on the internet right away before you know what the end of story is, before you've really given the seller the opportunity make you whole, and not providing adequate support for your position is whining.

Also, "acceptable/normal" is up to the person who paid that cash only to a point. You can always return the item, if you ar dissatisfied. If you take something like this to court, the judge is not going to side with you because its "your opinion." He doesn't care about your opinion, he cares about the facts and the law and he's going to give you his opinion. And when he does, the judge is going to look to see what representations the seller made to you and consider what is reasonable.