Turkey Sandwhich nahh I'll take milk duds

[Marine1210]

I had 200 calories left to eat for my day

So I had 13 milk duds which were 170 calories


And I know it's true, but it's hard convincing myself (wouldn't of mattered or made a difference if I had a turkey Sandwhich on whole wheat for 170 calories or my 13 milk duds) calories are calories and that's all that matters

Very hard to convince your self after hearing others say it has to be healthy foods to get ripped and have a six pack when this is absolutely garbage

If your getting enough protein and fat you can have a McDonald's cheeseburger or a dessert every day if it fits your calories.


If I'm not correct then please correct me so I don't ruin my cut

[igglesphan]

You're absolutely correct. No single food is inherently "healthy" or "not healthy"... its the combination of your overall diet that matters. Keep eating your Milk Duds!

[Tyler31622]

I totally agree with you, but to me, it comes down to eat less for more, or eat more for less. Meaning, sure you can have 5 mcdonald cheeseburgers in your diet, but guess what, that's about all you can eat that day vs a crap load of different types of healthy foods.

1 Big Mac meal (Fries and a Burger) = like 1100 calories vs

3xChicken Breast, 100 grams of dry rice, and a large salad with minimal dressing = same amount of calories, and a heck a lot more food and way better macro's

[igglesphan]

I totally agree with you, but to me, it comes down to eat less for more, or eat more for less. Meaning, sure you can have 5 mcdonald cheeseburgers in your diet, but guess what, that's about all you can eat that day vs a crap load of different types of healthy foods.

1 Big Mac meal (Fries and a Burger) = like 1100 calories vs

3xChicken Breast, 100 grams of dry rice, and a large salad with minimal dressing = same amount of calories, and a heck a lot more food and way better macro's

What do you mean by "healthy foods"?

[joeturner]

...

I had 200 calories left to eat for my day

So I had 13 milk duds which were 170 calories


And I know it's true, but it's hard convincing myself (wouldn't of mattered or made a difference if I had a turkey Sandwhich on whole wheat for 170 calories or my 13 milk duds) calories are calories and that's all that matters

Very hard to convince your self after hearing others say it has to be healthy foods to get ripped and have a six pack when this is absolutely garbage

If your getting enough protein and fat you can have a McDonald's cheeseburger or a dessert every day if it fits your calories.


If I'm not correct then please correct me so I don't ruin my cut

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[MiIitaryGuy]

What do you mean by "healthy foods"?

Healthy foods... as in a better option.... macro and micro nutrient.... as he explained.

I totally agree with you, but to me, it comes down to eat less for more, or eat more for less. Meaning, sure you can have 5 mcdonald cheeseburgers in your diet, but guess what, that's about all you can eat that day vs a crap load of different types of healthy foods.

1 Big Mac meal (Fries and a Burger) = like 1100 calories vs

3xChicken Breast, 100 grams of dry rice, and a large salad with minimal dressing = same amount of calories, and a heck a lot more food and way better macro's

Very well put!But people bash a true "healthy diet"

Very hard to convince your self after hearing others say it has to be healthy foods to get ripped and have a six pack when this is absolutely garbage

If your getting enough protein and fat you can have a McDonald's cheeseburger or a dessert every day if it fits your calories.


If I'm not correct then please correct me so I don't ruin my cut

"healthy" or "not healthy" does not exist for your body composition, but in terms of your overall health...its a very different thing.

[BloodySalad]

What do you mean by "healthy foods"?

Generally, it means "unprocessed" foods.
Although not necessarily healthier, it is a lot easier to avoid anything detrimental in unprocessed over something processed. IE: It's normally a lot easier to tell what nutrients are in a chicken breast and cup of brown rice than it is a fast food burger and a portion of fries.

But each to their own. IIFYM and the dieter is happy with it, go for it.

[igglesphan]

Healthy foods... as in a better option.... macro and micro nutrient.... as he explained.

No, he didn't explain it.

Generally, it means "unprocessed" foods.
Although not necessarily healthier, it is a lot easier to avoid anything detrimental in unprocessed over something processed. IE: It's normally a lot easier to tell what nutrients are in a chicken breast and cup of brown rice than it is a fast food burger and a portion of fries.

But each to their own. IIFYM and the dieter is happy with it, go for it.

My point is that the chicken, rice and salad the poster mentioned, in addition to being extremely bland, lacks dietary fat. Fat is an essential macronutrient, so there's nothing "healthy" about a diet that lacks fat. As far as defining healthy as being "unprocessed" foods, protein shakes are heavily processed and aren't considered by many to be "unhealthy". Again, it's the overall diet that can be "healthy" or "unhealthy", not the individual foods.

[Tyler31622]

What do you mean by "healthy foods"?

Okay, Maybe not "Healthy food" but how about, Nutritious food?

[Ryanast]

brb candy bars and brotein shakes

[Marine1210]

You're absolutely correct. No single food is inherently "healthy" or "not healthy"... its the combination of your overall diet that matters. Keep eating your Milk Duds!

Great, thank you for your response man

Reppred, you just can't beat milk duds while watching the movie "taken" lol

[Odian]

No, he didn't explain it.



My point is that the chicken, rice and salad the poster mentioned, in addition to being extremely bland, lacks dietary fat. Fat is an essential macronutrient, so there's nothing "healthy" about a diet that lacks fat.

You're acting like it's hard to add fat to your diet. A fatty cut of chicken, butter, and salad dressing could easily turn that into a high-fat meal.

[Marine1210]

I totally agree with you, but to me, it comes down to eat less for more, or eat more for less. Meaning, sure you can have 5 mcdonald cheeseburgers in your diet, but guess what, that's about all you can eat that day vs a crap load of different types of healthy foods.

1 Big Mac meal (Fries and a Burger) = like 1100 calories vs

3xChicken Breast, 100 grams of dry rice, and a large salad with minimal dressing = same amount of calories, and a heck a lot more food and way better macro's

For me right now, iv gotten where I don't rely on food very much it's not something to just fill your gut up with. Just enough food to keep your body maintaining muscle an test levels. So eating those 5 cheese burgers spread out thoughout the day would be a lot better than eating chicken and rice (it gets old quick) lol.

But I do understand where you are coming from

[Marine1210]

You're acting like it's hard to add fat to your diet. A fatty cut of chicken, butter, and salad dressing could easily turn that into a high-fat meal.

Well sometimes when eating "too" healthy you get into the "low fat foods stage"

Those 13 milk duds had like 6 gr. of fat and was tasty 2.5 were saturated. I think a chicken breast has like maybe 2gr. of fat?



The only problem I can see would be sodium, generally healthier foods do not carry as much sodium.

But who cares about sodium unless you got high bp

[SLO]

I have no issue with IIFYM, and I think it works great, especially for those who aren't very lean. But, in my opinion, to get super lean and into the single digits calories are eventually going to have to come down pretty damn low. You're going to be hungry as hell, and I think this is where the "clean" vs "dirty" issue comes into play. "Clean" foods will allow you to eat a much higher volume or mass of food, which I think is hugely important when deep into a cut. Can you get shredded eating fast food everyday? Sure, but it's going to suck being hungry all the time.

[Strong_1rd_Post]

depends on if you needed protein or not. not sure how many grams of Proteins you get from those milk duds. but i doubt its more than what you get from the turkey sandwich. but if you've already met your minimum requirement for protein, then enjoy the milk duds!

[Marine1210]

I have no issue with IIFYM, and I think it works great, especially for those who aren't very lean. But, in my opinion, to get super lean and into the single digits calories are eventually going to have to come down pretty damn low. You're going to be hungry as hell, and I think this is where the "clean" vs "dirty" issue comes into play. "Clean" foods will allow you to eat a much higher volume or mass of food, which I think is hugely important when deep into a cut. Can you get shredded eating fast food everyday? Sure, but it's going to suck being hungry all the time.

Haha yeah I can agree to that bro, I wonder sometimes if 1800 calories is too much for me cause im slowly dropping weight

[Marine1210]

depends on if you needed protein or not. not sure how many grams of Proteins you get from those milk duds. but i doubt its more than what you get from the turkey sandwich. but if you've already met your minimum requirement for protein, then enjoy the milk duds!

Of course bro, I usually will eat the milk duds after all my meals, (my meals before got me my required protein and fat for the day) just a nice treat to relax and watch a movie

Hey I like snickers too!! (14gr of fat like 5gr. Of protein, 28 gr of carbs) not bad I like the fat count

[igglesphan]

I have no issue with IIFYM, and I think it works great, especially for those who aren't very lean. But, in my opinion, to get super lean and into the single digits calories are eventually going to have to come down pretty damn low. You're going to be hungry as hell, and I think this is where the "clean" vs "dirty" issue comes into play. "Clean" foods will allow you to eat a much higher volume or mass of food, which I think is hugely important when deep into a cut. Can you get shredded eating fast food everyday? Sure, but it's going to suck being hungry all the time.

Yup... completely agree... repped

[nlite2000]

I have no issue with IIFYM, and I think it works great, especially for those who aren't very lean. But, in my opinion, to get super lean and into the single digits calories are eventually going to have to come down pretty damn low. You're going to be hungry as hell, and I think this is where the "clean" vs "dirty" issue comes into play. "Clean" foods will allow you to eat a much higher volume or mass of food, which I think is hugely important when deep into a cut. Can you get shredded eating fast food everyday? Sure, but it's going to suck being hungry all the time.

Alot of depends on how big you are too---Somebody who is 6'3" is going to have an easier time to fit in "junk" food than somebody who is 5'2".

[Crooktele79]

Yup... completely agree... repped

I agree with this also...but I want to pose a question. Having never been below 20% in my adult life, my goal honestly is to attain a decent looking body(not sub 10% levels) that is maintainable without having to micro-manage every little detail to death. What is a good body fat level that can be maintained year round yet still appear "above average"? I would personally be thrilled to be sub 15%.

[igglesphan]

I agree with this also...but I want to pose a question. Having never been below 20% in my adult life, my goal honestly is to attain a decent looking body(not sub 10% levels) that is maintainable without having to micro-manage every little detail to death. What is a good body fat level that can be maintained year round yet still appear "above average"? I would personally be thrilled to be sub 15%.

15% can easily be maintained year round with minimal effort imo

[SLO]

Haha yeah I can agree to that bro, I wonder sometimes if 1800 calories is too much for me cause im slowly dropping weight

It's a marathon not a sprint. You're eating 10x your weight which is fine. Keep going and if you stall for several weeks then you might have to lower it.

Alot of depends on how big you are too---Somebody who is 6'3" is going to have an easier time to fit in "junk" food than somebody who is 5'2".

Absolutely. Great point that often gets overlooked. Being 5'7" sucks for so many reasons.

I agree with this also...but I want to pose a question. Having never been below 20% in my adult life, my goal honestly is to attain a decent looking body(not sub 10% levels) that is maintainable without having to micro-manage every little detail to death. What is a good body fat level that can be maintained year round yet still appear "above average"? I would personally be thrilled to be sub 15%.

15% is a piece of cake, pun intended. It's when you get into the low teens that things get a little tougher, and each percentage point below about 12% gets exponentially harder. Cracking into the single digits really sucks, that's why so few people do it. It's even more difficult if you were overweight/obese before.

Also, great transformation! I'm inspired. Repped.

[SilvaMan61]

good read so far in this thread. all i gotta say is that i have met my protein goal today, actaully passed it by 9 grams. i will have 340 calories left over after my next meal... those chips ahoy cookies are looking real good.

being 6'4" and eating 2500 calories a day does leave a big window for those "dirty" meals. I still however eat mostly clean as it really does help with satiety.

[vismal]

I agree with this also...but I want to pose a question. Having never been below 20% in my adult life, my goal honestly is to attain a decent looking body(not sub 10% levels) that is maintainable without having to micro-manage every little detail to death. What is a good body fat level that can be maintained year round yet still appear "above average"? I would personally be thrilled to be sub 15%.

I was 13% at my lowest when I quit my cut. I did maintenance for about a month before I started bulking. I was eating around 3000 calories a day. This was with lifting 3 days a week and jogging 3 days a week. Combine that with IF and you can have some pretty good IIFYM meals. I feel like I could do that long term no problem. I could drop the running decrease the calories to 2800 daily and go that route too. Cutting is a different story. No room for the fun stuff. My diet gets pretty bro when the calories get cut.

[Iechine]

Im reading this and I do not understand the concept of a food that is nutrient dense vs nutrient empty not being considered healthier. Are you saying 4oz of grilled salmon on a bed of kale with lentils is not going to be better for you than a quarter pounder with cheese?

Also, its incredibly easy to sit on single digit body fat, dont build it up as some obstacle or mythic level of fat loss.

[Marine1210]

Im reading this and I do not understand the concept of a food that is nutrient dense vs nutrient empty not being considered healthier. Are you saying 4oz of grilled salmon on a bed of kale with lentils is not going to be better for you than a quarter pounder with cheese?

Also, its incredibly easy to sit on single digit body fat, dont build it up as some obstacle or mythic level of fat loss.

If youve hit your macros (protein and fat) and you have let's say 300 calories left

Eating the chicken or quarter pounder will make no difference

Just calories in calories out (After you meet macros, you can eat what you want if it fits in your calorie budget)

That's what we are saying

[vismal]

I think health and body composition are being used interchangably here and that should not be. If we are refering to body composition, what you do with your left over calories once macros and micros have been hit will not make an impact. Overall health is not the same as body composition. Someone at 8% BF ripped with a 6 pack is not necessarily in better health then someone with 15% BF and no visible abs. Also comparison of foods that do not have the same macro nutrient content is also something being done here. Chicken does not compare to a burger because chicken is high protein low fat while a quater pounder from mcdonalds is much higher in fat. They are not equal in macro nutrients.

[Marine1210]

I think health and body composition are being used interchangably here and that should not be. If we are refering to body composition, what you do with your left over calories once macros and micros have been hit will not make an impact. Overall health is not the same as body composition. Someone at 8% BF ripped with a 6 pack is not necessarily in better health then someone with 15% BF and no visible abs. Also comparison of foods that do not have the same macro nutrient content is also something being done here. Chicken does not compare to a burger because chicken is high protein low fat while a quater pounder from mcdonalds is much higher in fat. They are not equal in macro nutrients.

Sum it up:

Calories don't matter if you hit your protein and fat, to get the look of ripped to shreds

BUT

Health (inside) could be effected (blood pressure,cholesterol ext)

[vismal]

Sum it up:

Calories don't matter if you hit your protein and fat, to get the look of ripped to shreds

BUT

Health (inside) could be effected (blood pressure,cholesterol ext)

Not quite, calories always matter. Food choices don't matter if you hit your macros and micros for body composition, but as you said, health could be effected.