Made some comments in class of 50 today. Got bert stared, people start crying. [wtf]?

[artm]

Would the family be better off knowing the son/daughter was living in constant agony daily?

Is it any less selfish for the family to expect the son/daughter to live in that constant agony daily?

how about some help?? maybe??
girl that i went to high school with me hung herself 2 years ago. i went to the funeral, seeing her sisters and parents was horrible
she hung herself in the garage, guess who found her, her sister when she opened the door and was ready to pull in.
how would you like to see one of your siblings lying there dead. she commited suicide because she was anorexic, family feels horrible because they did not help her....

i work with guys that made contact with high voltage, sometimes they share their story, at the time it happened being in the hospital, they say they wished they died... but now they are more then glad to be alive...

met a guy that got buried alive, he says that when they took him out he was basically dead. they got him back though... his life is not the same his having nightmares to this day, cant be in dark places, no confined spaces he freaks out when his there,,, why does he not commit suicide to get away from all that??? because his more then happy to be here

[Schism45]

And that should tell you something. The easiest way to top feeling guilty is by getting angry instead.

Brb, got drunk and raped a sloot.
Brb, overwhelmed with guilt and grief.
Brb, can't handle pain anymore, turn it back on the victim.
Brb, that bish should have known better than to wear a short skirt when she knew perfectly well that I was drunk and horny. Attention whore got what she deserved.
Brb, feeling normal again.

Lolwut? Are you seriously trying to equate the two scenarios. Strong logic.

I also agree we don't need a parade or anything that's ridiculous. Also I said anyone should be able to commit suicide if they want to, so ultimately it's their choice but we should help the mentally ill so that they don't go down that path.

This doesn't really make sense. Either they can choose to do it if they want because it's okay, in which case there's no reason to help them since it isn't a problem, or it is not okay and they should be helped, in which case... it's not okay.

And the biggest problem here is that your assuming that people in a suicidal state of mind are still logical and aware of everything going on.

My only assumption is that being able to empathize with a ****ty situation does not justify a poor choice.

Suicide can be cowardly on some cases, but for a lot of other cases I don't think its cowardly at all.

Are you telling me if you had chronic back pain that was the worst pain ever for your entire life you wouldn't consider suicide, or if you were raped as a child you wouldn't consider suicide, or if your parents abused you and you had no friends and were bullied constantly and everyone hated you, you wouldn't consider suicide? You haven't been in their shoes its not always cowardly sometimes they were just driven to it.

With very few exceptions, I don't think that hardship justifies suicide. I think the human condition is to suffer and to persevere through this suffering.

One of the greatest psychiatrists of all time, Viktor Frankl, wrote a famous book called Mans Search for Meaning. He was sent to a Jewish concentration camp during ww2 and talks about his experience in what has to be one of the most hellish environments in human history. He said we experience pain in a similar way to gas in a vacuum - it expands to fill the entire chamber regardless of how much there objectively is. This means that a person who had chronic back pain their entire life, or was raped as a child, could be having the same experience of pain as a person who's cat just died. Pain is relative - that was his conclusion and would sound arrogant coming from anyone else but him.

He saw a ton of depression and suicide. He didn't make a value judgment about it, but he emphasized strongly that there is always, always, always a choice.

The audacity of calling suicide selfish is beyond remarkable.

What is more selfish: someone who kills him/herself when in unbearable pain, where each day is worse than the last, or someone who expects that person to endure such a daily hell? Seriously. "You're selfish for wanting to end your endless suffering, but I'm not because I want you to endure it for my own mental comfort." It's hilarious how irrational that is.

And let's draw the difference here between suicide that stems from convenience and that which stems from legitimate suffering.

Congrats on showing your female logic, OP.

There is a third option - persevere through the pain and try to find a way to make life worth living.

Way more people in this thread need to read Mans Search for Meaning.

[thatswhatshesed]

depression is for pussies.

mental illness is for the genetically unfit.

suicide is natural selection, sped up.

[mynameisuntz]

how about some help?? maybe??
girl that i went to high school with me hung herself 2 years ago. i went to the funeral, seeing her sisters and parents was horrible
she hung herself in the garage, guess who found her, her sister when she opened the door and was ready to pull in.
how would you like to see one of your siblings lying there dead. she commited suicide because she was anorexic, family feels horrible because they did not help her....

i work with guys that made contact with high voltage, sometimes they share their story, at the time it happened being in the hospital, they say they wished they died... but now they are more then glad to be alive...

met a guy that got buried alive, he says that when they took him out he was basically dead. they got him back though... his life is not the same his having nightmares to this day, cant be in dark places, no confined spaces he freaks out when his there,,, why does he not commit suicide to get away from all that??? because his more then happy to be here

Anything can be done in a selfish manner. Suicide is no different. The point is that suicide is not inherently selfish.

Killing yourself in a way that is gruesome for your family to discover is selfish. Killing yourself over something that is arguably superficial, or something that can be recovered from, may be selfish (maybe - you can argue the opposite). Killing yourself for convenience may be selfish.

Your simplification of the human condition is downright remarkable. Some people recover from traumatic experiences, others do not. Some people have unfathomably severe depression for what appears to be no reason, others do not. But to say all suicide is inherently selfish is horrifically irrational because it immediately implies that people who are suffering should be expected to live their lives for the sake of their family's comfort. Aka, a family's comfort should be replenished by allowing someone to suffer. THAT is selfish. THAT is wrong.

There is a third option - persevere through the pain and try to find a way to make life worth living.

Way more people in this thread need to read Mans Search for Meaning.

I own it. Frankl? I think he's remarkable. His mentality is very Eastern-esque, and it's a very similar type of mentality that gave way to the most efficacious form of psychotherapy today.

Now tell me what that has to do with this. Because some people can handle suffering, all can? All should? What about people who have TRIED to persevere for years, but nothing works? Then what?

Does "nature vs. nurture" mean anything to you?

[Scottidott]

If we honored suicide, wouldn't it just make it easier to kill yourself knowing that you would be honored when you were dead?

[RustyZ32]

That really happened...

OP is a moron regardless.

[yodlegern]

I couldn't agree with OP more.

[BENNAYBOY]

People of all economic statuses, ages, and groups commit suicide. Its quite ignorant to say suicide is something only rich suburban kids do. 13 year old bullying victims commit suicide, minority teens who dont think they have a future commit suicide, middle aged people commit suicide, people with permanent, severe sometimes terminal illnesses do it, struggling military vets, etc. Also, sometimes suicide is the best option. People can face a lifetime of horrendous suffering, or a quick and painless death. Its not like you are going to live forever anyway.

Its one of the most common types of deaths as a human. It should be recognized for what it is.

[mynameisuntz]

I'm going to re-post this on every page from now on for all the idiots that assume suicide is inherently cowardly or selfish:

“The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don’t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You’d have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling.”

[StaticZ]

Yeah, you really don't understand mental illness. /shrug

[Schism45]

Your simplification of the human condition is downright remarkable. Some people recover from traumatic experiences, others do not. Some people have unfathomably severe depression for what appears to be no reason, others do not. But to say all suicide is inherently selfish is horrifically irrational because it immediately implies that people who are suffering should be expected to live their lives for the sake of their family's comfort. Aka, a family's comfort should be replenished by allowing someone to suffer. THAT is selfish. THAT is wrong.

Here lies the problem - your example only applies to a family that "allows" someone to suffer, i.e. they have some form of control over the situation that they are not exerting. A family should be "all in" with helping someone they love work through a difficult circumstance.

If you simply mean that living itself is the family "allowing the person to suffer", then you either have a bizarre conception of a family's ability to impact that person's life, or you believe that change is impossible, attempts to help are futile, and the entire field of mental health and therapy is useless.

I own it. Frankl? I think he's remarkable. His mentality is very Eastern-esque, and it's a very similar type of mentality that gave way to the most efficacious form of psychotherapy today.

Now tell me what that has to do with this. Because some people can handle suffering, all can? All should? What about people who have TRIED to persevere for years, but nothing works? Then what?

Frankl's entire philosophy is grounded upon two principles: that we always have a choice no matter what the situation, and that there is always something worth living for but it's individual to each person and a journey to discover what this is for ourselves.

That is the point. You seem to think that people end up in a situation where suicide is the only viable option - not just that they feel that way, but that it truly is the only option and there is zero hope for change. The entire field of counselling and therapy disagrees with you.

Does "nature vs. nurture" mean anything to you?

Nature vs nurture is a stale debate from the 60's. We have long since moved past this. It is obviously a combination of both and not one or the other.

A more recent, and relevant, principle is the concept central to humanistic therapy which is that human beings will innately strive towards improving themselves and their situation, i.e. the actualizing tendency. People are never truly beyond the possibility of moving forward in life, though some don't make that leap forward.

[griepes]

[mynameisuntz]

Here lies the problem - your example only applies to a family that "allows" someone to suffer, i.e. they have some form of control over the situation that they are not exerting. A family should be "all in" with helping someone they love work through a difficult circumstance.

If you simply mean that living itself is the family "allowing the person to suffer", then you either have a bizarre conception of a family's ability to impact that person's life, or you believe that change is impossible, attempts to help are futile, and the entire field of mental health and therapy is useless.

What is your experience in mental health? In a good number of cases, far more cases than you apparently believe, one of the following is true:

1) The family believes the patient needs to "snap out of it."
2) The family doesn't care enough to exert that much effort (often because the patient is a legal adult or close to being one or doesn't subscribe to mental diagnoses).
3) The family or patient cannot afford treatment.
4) Treatment does not work.

What then?

Frankl's entire philosophy is grounded upon two principles: that we always have a choice no matter what the situation, and that there is always something worth living for but it's individual to each person and a journey to discover what this is for ourselves.

That is the point. You seem to think that people end up in a situation where suicide is the only viable option - not just that they feel that way, but that it truly is the only option and there is zero hope for change. The entire field of counselling and therapy disagrees with you.

You're talking to subscriber of Buddhism. I don't need to be preached to about the philosophy, "pain is inevitable, suffering is optional." Believe me, I got it. But if you are going to deny the overpowering effect of circumstance, then you are far too deluded and narrow in your understanding and scope.

Show me where I said people end up in a situation where suicide is the only viable option. I am in graduate school for clinical psychology. Would you like to talk about the recovery rates for bipolar disorder? Go look them up. Find the number of people with Bipolar I who eventually see remission.

Again, you are mistaking my position here. I am not saying suicide is THE ONLY ROUTE for some people; I am saying it is not always selfish. I am all for people putting up the fight as long as possible, but for some of those people, I will not call them selfish when they feel they cannot do it any longer. Same goes for people who are dealing with terminal illnesses, or crippling pain, etc. I do not blame them or call them selfish when they are ready to give up their life.

Nature vs nurture is a stale debate from the 60's. We have long since moved past this. It is obviously a combination of both and not one or the other.

Yes, but you are overlooking the nature component by making Frankl the model.

A more recent, and relevant, principle is the concept central to humanistic therapy which is that human beings will innately strive towards improving themselves and their situation, i.e. the actualizing tendency. People are never truly beyond the possibility of moving forward in life, though some don't make that leap forward.

Lol, humanistic therapy is NOT very efficacious. Nor is it recent. The main thing they really brought to the table is empathy. That's about it. CBT is the most efficacious therapy. And of course one can make the extremely valid argument that humanistic therapy didn't invent empathy, so even that is not unique to humanistic therapy.

[Chaan]

Just checking in to mention that peter singer read this thread and liked it.

[Aftiel]

gjdm

inb4 classroom suicide tho

[VTECbrah]

reps for cliffs

[alex1986]

What happened to universities being a place of learning? Regardless of your opinion on whether OP was tactless or not, people enrolled in an institution of higher learning should be capable of engaging in intellectual discourse, and considering differing opinions and ideas. Not running out of the classroom crying like a whiny lil bitch. Preparing future leaders of tomorrow my ass... unless our universities are preparing whiny, unstable politicians that act on their emotions instead of logic and rationality.

[mynameisuntz]

Just checking in to mention that peter singer read this thread and liked it.

Haha, I think you've got that backwards.

[Schism45]

What is your experience in mental health? In a good number of cases, far more cases than you apparently believe, one of the following is true:

1) The family believes the patient needs to "snap out of it."
2) The family doesn't care enough to exert that much effort (often because the patient is a legal adult or close to being one or doesn't subscribe to mental diagnoses).
3) The family or patient cannot afford treatment.
4) Treatment does not work.

What then?

I love that you have #4 as an option. I am not an American so my health care system is different, but my understanding of the American medical systems way of treating people is basically hand out some pills, and maybe if you have a really great insurance policy you'll get a handful of 30 minute sessions with a therapist.

The practical issues of a failed delivery of therapy isn't particularly relevant since the person isn't actually beyond help, only in need of more help than they receive. Unless you believe that suicide is a justified response to the failures of the system... but then we're back to Frankl and always having a choice.

Show me where I said people end up in a situation where suicide is the only viable option.

Okay.

Because some people can handle suffering, all can? All should? What about people who have TRIED to persevere for years, but nothing works?

What is more selfish: someone who kills him/herself when in unbearable pain, where each day is worse than the last, or someone who expects that person to endure such a daily hell?

These are two examples. In both of these you speak as if it is unreasonable for the person to continue persevering. In the first you imply there is no hope since "nothing works". In the second, you actually go ahead and state that someone who expects a suicidal person to continue to fight is abnormally selfish and self-centered.

I am in graduate school for clinical psychology.

Let's not get into an e-stat war here. Being one semester/year into a masters program really isn't enough to impress anyone.

Would you like to talk about the recovery rates for bipolar disorder? Go look them up. Find the number of people with Bipolar I who eventually see remission.

My best friend has extreme OCD - the symptoms were so close to schizophrenia it took a year to be certain it was ocd. He has suffered from severe depression for basically his entire life and has spent time in a psych ward, and will likely continue to battle this for the rest of his life.

That does not mean that a life worth living is beyond hope. It also does not mean that you are stuck with the situation at its worst for the rest of your life. His family has been very supportive and his ability to cope has improved dramatically. It took about a year and a half, two years after diagnosis, before any really noticeable improvement was made, but since then it's taken off for the better. Things don't work out this well for everyone, but if he had killed himself when things were at their worst we'd never know this....

Again, you are mistaking my position here. I am not saying suicide is THE ONLY ROUTE for some people; I am saying it is not always selfish. I am all for people putting up the fight as long as possible, but for some of those people, I will not call them selfish when they feel they cannot do it any longer. Same goes for people who are dealing with terminal illnesses, or crippling pain, etc. I do not blame them or call them selfish when they are ready to give up their life.

I guess where you and I disagree is whether or not being able to understand a person's situation justifies their action. Every choice that every single person on the planet makes is one that they think is the best choice for themselves at that particular time. That does not mean that their choices are right, or good, or worth respecting. Suicide is a selfish decision - it is choosing to quit and cause immense pain to everyone who cared about them rather than try to continue to push forward. I don't believe that being able to understand the hopelessness they feel in any way justifies the action. Terminal illness is pretty obviously not what we've been talking about throughout this thread since that's a completely different scenario.

I don't believe that people are ever truly beyond hope, and therefore I don't believe that suicide is ever a valid option. I have a hard time believing you're going into clinical work and don't share that feeling. Why work with people you don't believe can change? Are you going to give up on your patients when "treatment fails"?

Yes, but you are overlooking the nature component by making Frankl the model.

I'm strongly anti biological determinism, if that's what you're trying to bring in with the nature comment. I'd rather not go down that path in this thread. If you're just referring to mental illness as an enduring battle, that's covered earlier.

Lol, humanistic therapy is NOT very efficacious. Nor is it recent. The main thing they really brought to the table is empathy. That's about it. CBT is the most efficacious therapy. And of course one can make the extremely valid argument that humanistic therapy didn't invent empathy, so even that is not unique to humanistic therapy.

More recent than nature versus nurture. And we aren't talking about efficacy, we're talking about philosophy and human nature. You either believe in the actualizing principle or you don't, and if you don't then why are you in school for clinical? Unless you're a strict behaviourist.

[moofthedog]

While I agree with your opinion OP,
saying it out loud was just silly.

Just like how I hate whales and their excuses,
but that doesn't mean I'm gonna say
"Hey whale, you're a 0/10. you made the choice to be a fat piece of ****,
therefore you must hate decent men. because no decent man would ever clap all the cheeks you have."

[PerfectFormForever]

Most hatred and distrust stems from misunderstanding.
The people in your class should try to see it from your point of view. And OP should commit suicide. There.

[Geoloop]

inb4 the teacher suicides.

[allkillano]

i agree to an extent, but to people that are actually 'sick' mental problems such as schizophrenia deserve some type of remorse for there loss.

people that kill them selves over break ups or some other **** excuse... deserve no respect @ all.

[namesarehard]

I'm not glad when people kill themselves, but having a day to remember people that kill themselves if phucking ridiculous. Brb, honoring people that are pussies.

[mynameisuntz]

I love that you have #4 as an option. I am not an American so my health care system is different, but my understanding of the American medical systems way of treating people is basically hand out some pills, and maybe if you have a really great insurance policy you'll get a handful of 30 minute sessions with a therapist.

The practical issues of a failed delivery of therapy isn't particularly relevant since the person isn't actually beyond help, only in need of more help than they receive. Unless you believe that suicide is a justified response to the failures of the system... but then we're back to Frankl and always having a choice.

The American health care system in regards to mental health is awful. That's why I listed it as an option. It's similar to me not blaming people who are unable to lift themselves out of certain conditions when society hinders or obstructs their efforts.

These are two examples. In both of these you speak as if it is unreasonable for the person to continue persevering. In the first you imply there is no hope since "nothing works". In the second, you actually go ahead and state that someone who expects a suicidal person to continue to fight is abnormally selfish and self-centered.

You're reading what isn't there. I did NOT say it is unreasonable for someone to keep fighting. Please do not put words in my mouth. Anyone who fights off feelings of depression is beyond noble and brave and worthy of praise. I'm going to make a career out of trying to keep people away from that path.

And yes, it is absolutely selfish to expect someone to put up with severe mental anguish every day SOLELY for that person's comfort. How is that not selfish? "I expect you to keep fighting, because if you kill yourself, I will feel pain, so you should keep feeling pain to spare my pain." Please acknowledge that all I have stated is it is selfish for people to expect those with severe depression to continue to fight off the desire of suicide solely for personal comfort or satisfaction on behalf of the non-depressed folk. Because you are continually attributing statements to me which I have not said.

Explain how that is not selfish.

Let's not get into an e-stat war here. Being one semester/year into a masters program really isn't enough to impress anyone.

What is your experience again? Belittle my experience when you have little to none? That won't bode well for you.

My best friend has extreme OCD - the symptoms were so close to schizophrenia it took a year to be certain it was ocd. He has suffered from severe depression for basically his entire life and has spent time in a psych ward, and will likely continue to battle this for the rest of his life.

That does not mean that a life worth living is beyond hope. It also does not mean that you are stuck with the situation at its worst for the rest of your life. His family has been very supportive and his ability to cope has improved dramatically. It took about a year and a half, two years after diagnosis, before any really noticeable improvement was made, but since then it's taken off for the better. Things don't work out this well for everyone, but if he had killed himself when things were at their worst we'd never know this....

Tell you what, when you know someone who goes through depression so severe that ****tic and psychotic symptoms emerge for years, decades, then get back to me. Suffering for a year is difficult, no doubt, but that's not even the population I'm talking about. Especially when a diagnosis is unclear and all treatment plans have not been exhausted.

My brother has what can be labeled MDD. He has suffered from something which has been identified as a combination of GAD, MDD, and Bipolar Disorder all his life. Name an anti-depressant, antipsychotic, etc. and he's tried it. Name a type of psychotherapy and he's tried it. He's undergone ECT for years. Nothing has seemed to work. He's been battling for over a decade. I would do anything to steer him away from suicide, I would switch places with him if I could, but you know if he came to me and said he couldn't take it any longer after trying literally everything and then some, the last thing I'd call him is a coward, weak, or selfish.

It would take a highly irrational person to see someone suffer for well over ten years and call him/her a coward when he/she decides to end the fight after all known strategies do not seem to work.

I guess where you and I disagree is whether or not being able to understand a person's situation justifies their action. Every choice that every single person on the planet makes is one that they think is the best choice for themselves at that particular time. That does not mean that their choices are right, or good, or worth respecting. Suicide is a selfish decision - it is choosing to quit and cause immense pain to everyone who cared about them rather than try to continue to push forward. I don't believe that being able to understand the hopelessness they feel in any way justifies the action. Terminal illness is pretty obviously not what we've been talking about throughout this thread since that's a completely different scenario.

And continuing to live a remarkably painful life which feels more hopeless every day just to satisfy family members is selfish of those family members. Do you disagree with this statement? If not, you are beyond reasoning.

I don't believe that people are ever truly beyond hope, and therefore I don't believe that suicide is ever a valid option. I have a hard time believing you're going into clinical work and don't share that feeling. Why work with people you don't believe can change? Are you going to give up on your patients when "treatment fails"?

Geez man have you read a single thing I have stated? I did not say people are beyond hope; I said I do not consider them selfish when they have exhausted all options within their means and nothing seems to work for them, to the point where they cannot go on. I am not saying they should, or I condone it, or I want them to. I am not saying they could not potentially, potentially, be "cured." Anything is possible. I am simply saying I would not look at their suicide as an act stemming from selfishness or cowardice.

I'm strongly anti biological determinism, if that's what you're trying to bring in with the nature comment. I'd rather not go down that path in this thread. If you're just referring to mental illness as an enduring battle, that's covered earlier.

More recent than nature versus nurture. And we aren't talking about efficacy, we're talking about philosophy and human nature. You either believe in the actualizing principle or you don't, and if you don't then why are you in school for clinical? Unless you're a strict behaviourist.

Who the hell is for biological determinism? Whoever is for that is dumb. I am for biological predisposition, but certainly not predeterminism. At least not for the matters we are discussing (matters of character/personality).

Are you really busting out Maslow right now? Efficacy is what matters. Humanism has very little efficacy. So as much as you believe in it, it does not seem to work. I believe in a principle that DOES work. CBT is heavily influenced by Buddhism. My philosophical leanings > yours in terms of recovery.

Again, I want you to acknowledge the following: I have never, not once, stated that people should commit suicide. Or that people are even beyond help. All I have stated is that it is not selfish to commit suicide for those who have tried all reasonable forms of treatment within that individual's means. Stop expanding my argument to areas which I have not brought it. I am not saying suicide is good, or wanted, or rational, or the only escape for people. I simply said it is not inherently selfish. If you cannot see this, if you cannot acknowledge it, then further conversation with you is pointless because you cannot speak to me without making up my position. And it's getting awfully annoying.

[mynameisuntz]

Page 18 post:

“The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don’t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You’d have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling.”

[Explosions]

I would make a long long ass post explaining exactly why you're a kunt OP as my jimmies have been rustled but I really can't be phucked so a couple paragraphs will suffice for you.

Your arrogance is what annoys me most, to go about classifying which types of suicide are not 'selfish' and which are just makes me think you're a troll. We'll never know the situation someone is in, what they've been through, how long they've suffered etc. so for you to so lazily attempt, and I stress, attempt, to appreciate that and categorize them into some level of suffering whereby it's then either okay or not okay to commit suicide. Oh lawd, no wonder they bertstared you, you went full retard.

You chose to approach suicide with a lack of tact, a certain amount of aggressiveness and that eventually made someone leave the room in tears (clearly suffered a loss). I can only hope you were decent and apologised. It's a sensitive topic and you know this, yet you still choose to be a kunt so probably not. It's not even a matter of the content of your argument (which I clearly disagree with) it's how you go about expressing it. You can be calm and collected which is conducive to a good debate amongst fellow students, but you personalized the argument, you decided to insult and trample on the memory of anyone who lost someone to suicide in that classroom. There is expressing opinion while being objective and courteous to other's feelings... then there's being an insensitive prick. Certain topics require you to approach them more delicately and if you actually had a decent bone in your body, you'd apologise to anyone offended in that class.

And to all you idiots who are like 'RIGHT ON OP ALPHA WOO', being a dick isn't alpha.

[ClownToucher]

I would make a long long ass post explaining exactly why you're a kunt OP as my jimmies have been rustled but I really can't be phucked so a couple paragraphs will suffice for you.

Your arrogance is what annoys me most, to go about classifying which types of suicide are not 'selfish' and which are just makes me think you're a troll. We'll never know the situation someone is in, what they've been through, how long they've suffered etc. so for you to so lazily attempt, and I stress, attempt, to appreciate that and categorize them into some level of suffering whereby it's then either okay or not okay to commit suicide. Oh lawd, no wonder they bertstared you, you went full retard.

You chose to approach suicide with a lack of tact, a certain amount of aggressiveness and that eventually made someone leave the room in tears (clearly suffered a loss). I can only hope you were decent and apologised. It's a sensitive topic and you know this, yet you still choose to be a kunt so probably not. It's not even a matter of the content of your argument (which I clearly disagree with) it's how you go about expressing it. You can be calm and collected which is conducive to a good debate amongst fellow students, but you personalized the argument, you decided to insult and trample on the memory of anyone who lost someone to suicide in that classroom. There is expressing opinion while being objective and courteous to other's feelings... then there's being an insensitive prick. Certain topics require you to approach them more delicately and if you actually had a decent bone in your body, you'd apologise to anyone offended in that class.

And to all you idiots who are like 'RIGHT ON OP ALPHA WOO', being a dick isn't alpha.

This.

I really cant stand the way these dumbass college kids think they know it all and feel the need to spout off their ignorant opinions in the loudest, dumbest way possible. Its so easy to sit there with your first world problems and pass judgment when youre 19 and your life experience consists of world of warcraft and pokemon.

Didnt sound alpha; it sounded like one of those annoying bitter internet crusaders.

[mynameisuntz]

This.

I really cant stand the way these dumbass college kids think they know it all and feel the need to spout off their ignorant opinions in the loudest, dumbest way possible. Its so easy to sit there with your first world problems and pass judgment when youre 19 and your life experience consists of world of warcraft and pokemon.

Didnt sound alpha; it sounded like one of those annoying bitter internet crusaders.

It sounds like someone who just parrots accepted belief. Nothing alpha about someone who can't think for himself and accepts things without actually considering alternative perspectives.

[rammstein2k]

I think a lot of the russelled jimmies are a result of miscommunication. Oh lulz.