what makes saturated fats so bad?

[anonymous]

i know it is recommended to avoid them, but why?

[bravo03_old]

i know it is recommended to avoid them, but why?

Saturated fats raise total blood cholesterol as well as LDL cholesterol (the bad cholesterol).

[bravo03_old]

Saturated fats raise total blood cholesterol as well as LDL cholesterol (the bad cholesterol).

They make the body produce more cholesterol, which may raise blood cholesterol levels. Excess saturated fat is related to an increased risk of cardiovascular disease. The amount of cholesterol found in foods is not as important as the amount of saturated fat. Of all the fats, saturated fat is the most potent determinant of blood cholesterol levels. Saturated fats stimulates the production of LDL cholesterol ("bad" cholesterol) and therefore increases blood cholesterol levels and the risk of heart disease. Saturated fats raise cholesterol levels and LDL-cholesterol levels more than dietary cholesterol itself.

[romenganNYC]

saturated fats comprise more than 50% of your cell membrane, they give cells stiffness and integrity
they play a vital role in bones by assisting calcium absorption
they protect the liver from toxins
they enhance the immune system
short and medium chain fats have important anti-microbial properties
preferred food for your heart

[jf1]

saturated fats comprise more than 50% of your cell membrane, they give cells stiffness and integrity
they play a vital role in bones by assisting calcium absorption
they protect the liver from toxins
they enhance the immune system
short and medium chain fats have important anti-microbial properties
preferred food for your heart

here they come! the saturated fat trolls! they love the stuff and will tell you how good it is for you! despite what the vast body of scientific literature has to say!

this is really whats up: saturated fats are only incorporated into cell membranes when they are consumed in the diet!
when they are incorporated they give the membranes stiffness: this can result in hardening of the arteries, atherosclerosis and heart disease!
YUM!YUM!

[IraHays]

here they come! the saturated fat trolls! they love the stuff and will tell you how good it is for you! despite what the vast body of scientific literature has to say!

this is really whats up: saturated fats are only incorporated into cell membranes when they are consumed in the diet!
when they are incorporated they give the membranes stiffness: this can result in hardening of the arteries, atherosclerosis and heart disease!
YUM!YUM!

You should take the blinders off buddy. Trying to marginalize people by the use of "troll" is also pretty silly.

1. The evidence to connect saturated fats to CHD is weak, at best.

2. There is plenty of evidience to suggest the opposite.

3. There are plenty of real world examples of peoples that eat diets very hight in saturated fats that have no signs of CHD.

4. The most famous study that supports the saturated fat/CHD theory (Ancel Keys) has been shown to be extremely biased and
horribly flawed.

5. The plaque found in ateries of people with CHD is about 20% saturated fat, with the other 80% coming from poly/mono fats.

But of course all this means nothing. Keep drinking the FDA/drug company cool aid.

[Dave P]

Saturated fats, like everything else, have their place in every diet. The only fat that has no biological value is Trans Fat.

Saturated Fat needs to be in moderation but it does need to be there to have a healthy diet. Cutting out an entire macro-nutrient whether it be carbs, sugar, fat, saturated fat, or what-have-you is never a good approach to dieting.

[raffiki]

Like most things, you don't want to be deficient and you don't want to go overboard. I think the recommended intake is about 20 grams for 2000 cal. That means 30g for 3000 calories, ect. So excess for most people who train hard would be 40+. That is really hard to get if you have at least one eye on the food you eat. Good sources are red meat, eggs, chocolate, and olive oil, since each has health benefits aside from that. Avoid "special sauces."

[JK2006]

The whole concept of saturated fat being "BAD' only applies to sedentary people who dotn workout at all. In these cases saturated fats will increase overall caloric intake and cause those heart diseases, clogged arteries etc.

For bodybuilders saturated fat is actually good as long as you check your caloric intake. coconut oil, steak - its all good!!

[romenganNYC]

i know it is recommended to avoid them, but why?

http://www.bullz-eye.com/furci/2006/...hypothesis.htm

here read this

[devire1]

here they come! the saturated fat trolls! they love the stuff and will tell you how good it is for you! despite what the vast body of scientific literature has to say!

this is really whats up: saturated fats are only incorporated into cell membranes when they are consumed in the diet!
when they are incorporated they give the membranes stiffness: this can result in hardening of the arteries, atherosclerosis and heart disease!
YUM!YUM!

Wow you have some major beef with saturated fats dont you.

[Crunchbar]

Actually saturated fats are not bad for you and they also promote testorine production i beleive.

Research it my friend and you shall fid the truth

[garlichead]

i know it is recommended to avoid them, but why?

Unfortunately hydrogenated oils were treated as a saturated fat in early studies. The consumption of saturated fats from animal sources have declined almost 20 percent in the last 50 years.....mostly from the threat of heart disease from eating animal protein. And during this time heart related disease as gone up 400%.....and is seriously leaving no doubt in anbody's mind that the North American diet is a global disgrace.

Even with todays information transperency people still cling to old school thinking in regards to this topic......"saturated fats causes atherosclerosis and heart disease" and continue to perpetuate this type of thinking.

Oxidated oils from refined oils mostly are the main focus when it relates to fats in regards to atherosclerosis and heart disease......

Keep in mind that the saturated fats that we get from animal sources are only 7% of the total that North Americans get from what they eat......the other 93% is coming from processed food.

Also understand that the fats found in animal products....less that half is saturated..........the lions share are mono's and poly's....go figure.

Saying all this, you don't want to consume too many fats in general....anywhere from 20 to 30%.

What you never want to consume are trans fats and refined poly's.......these are oxidized oils and promote a free radical enviroment.......which actually is the cause of atherosclerosis and heart disease when it relates to lipids (fats) and what this country have been replacing animal fats for in the processed and fast food industry.......again, this information has been around for 15 years and we still have the same old fear when it comes to saturated fat........IMO

If anything saturated fats are what the body recognizes easily and is quite familiar with considering we've been consuming them since the beginning of time.......and on the other hand processed and refined oils have been hear for Hmmmm, let me think, 75 years.

[Hunterchilla]

in my oppinion saturated fats are good for a balanced diet, but the majority of your fat calories should not be from saturated fat because #1 you only need a miniscule amount of it, if you eat more then you need thats when you will get clogged arteries and cholesterol problems galore.

[OzStriker]

I agree with Hunter.

Saturated fats have a bad name because the typical Western diet includes far too much saturated fat from milkshakes, hamburgers, chips and similar junk foods.

If you are eating eggs and some 1% cottage cheese and milk during the day there is no need to search for additional sources of saturated fats, and no need to worry about their consumption.

[gymgrown]

here they come! the saturated fat trolls! they love the stuff and will tell you how good it is for you! despite what the vast body of scientific literature has to say!

this is really whats up: saturated fats are only incorporated into cell membranes when they are consumed in the diet!
when they are incorporated they give the membranes stiffness: this can result in hardening of the arteries, atherosclerosis and heart disease!
YUM!YUM!

Jack, I'm sorry, but this is a naively mechanistic (and misinformed) view of the whole saturated fat theory. We all battled this out in the last thread - and you gave up and walked away in frustration. It's about to happen again. Meanwhile, you've given us no real explanation for why saturated fat is bad.

Allow me to answer your theory by quoting myself from the last thread:

[/i]You claim to be an expert but you don't even really know your own theory of "bad" saturated fat. You make the absurd claim that cells with saturated fat in the outer membranes (the way cells are supposed to be) cause hardening of the arteries. The man who came up with the "lipid hypothesis" in the 1950s, Ancel Keys, observed that there was a high amount of cholesterol on the walls of hardening arteries, and that therefore cholesterol causes hardening arteries and is bad. He also thought that saturated fat raises cholesterol, and that therefore saturated fat causes atherosclerosis. (In fact, the fat he observed raising cholesterol levels was partially hydrogenated vegetable oil, but he called it saturated fat because he didn't appreciate the difference). He did NOT say that saturated fat causes arteries to harden.

Why are you so resistant to the mountain of evidence contradicting what you think you know? You ought to have a more open mind.

Guys, you should maximize your ratio of saturated fat to polyunsaturated fat. The former is the healthier.

[Alfz]

i KNEW gymgrow and ira would come into this thread ^^

[johnnyironboard]

i know it is recommended to avoid them, but why?

politics- certainly not science.

[IraHays]

in my oppinion saturated fats are good for a balanced diet, but the majority of your fat calories should not be from saturated fat because #1 you only need a miniscule amount of it, if you eat more then you need thats when you will get clogged arteries and cholesterol problems galore.

Did you read any of the post directly above yours?

[DarinK]

Saturated fats and monounsataurated fats are the most important fats. The key is to do saturated fats in moderation along with a healthy diet and lifestyle. When you ingest saturated or monounstaurated fat here's what happens. The liver converts the fats to cholesterol, which is converted to pregnenolone, then to DHEA, next to androstenedione, and finally testosterone. So low fats means low testosterone. Read more about fats and testosterone production here.

[rotlex]

LOL, just subscribing - I love watching the idiocy of the anti saturated fat arguments. (Yeah, I'm a glutton for punishment).

[tweaked17]

They make the body produce more cholesterol, which may raise blood cholesterol levels. Excess saturated fat is related to an increased risk of cardiovascular disease. The amount of cholesterol found in foods is not as important as the amount of saturated fat. Of all the fats, saturated fat is the most potent determinant of blood cholesterol levels. Saturated fats stimulates the production of LDL cholesterol ("bad" cholesterol) and therefore increases blood cholesterol levels and the risk of heart disease. Saturated fats raise cholesterol levels and LDL-cholesterol levels more than dietary cholesterol itself.

Wow, strong copy/paste. You care to cite sources buddy? (I'll do it for you)
http://www.dietsite.com/dt/diets/Hea...dictionary.asp


This thread is a train wreck, as is what usually happens when this question is asked (about weekly). Maybe I'll try something different... Over the past 3 days..

                  g        cal       %

Fat:  	       70   	629   	28%
  Sat: 	       29  	261  	12%
  Poly: 	8        72  	  3%
  Mono:       24      216      10%

Fat:  	       88   	791   	35%
  Sat: 	       33  	293  	13%
  Poly:        12  	106  	 5%
  Mono:        24       216  	9%

Fat:  	       51   	463   	29%
  Sat: 	       18  	161  	10%
  Poly:        10  	 90  	 6%
  Mono:        19      169  	10%

I've been eating like this for at least two years now, consistently.

Cholesterol --- 169 MG/DL --- (< 200)
HDL as % of Chol. --- 42% --- Below avg. risk (> 25)
HDL --- 71 MG/DL --- (> 45)
Triglycerides --- 55 MG/DL --- (< 151)
LDL --- 87 MG/DL --- (< 100)
Chol/HDL Ratio (risk factor) --- 2.38 --- Below avg. risk (< 4.2)

I'll probably be getting another in a few months, and I'd be glad to share.

Edit: forgot to add that genetically, I'm a time bomb. My cousins (one a few years older than me, the other just one year) have already begun to follow in line with the rest of the family. 4 out of the 5 males on my father's side are on heavy statin use, 3/5 have had heart attacks, 2/5 have had repeat heart attacks/bypass operations.

Where you get the fat is just as important as what kind of fat it is...

[gymgrown]

Wow, strong copy/paste. You care to cite sources buddy? (I'll do it for you)
http://www.dietsite.com/dt/diets/Hea...dictionary.asp

Lol, nice catch! Tweaked, I'm just as sick of this argument as you, but I'm participating because DontTreadOnMe asked an open-minded question, so I figure his thread deserves a good debate. BTW everyone, at the risk of having a carbon repeat, here's the last thread debating this topic: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=1325671

Since you posted your blood stats, I'll post mine, taken about a month ago. For the last year I've been eating about 2 dozen whole eggs a week, plus plenty of whole (raw) milk, butter and regular red meat, very little vegetable oil and a minimum of low-fat processed junk. I get about 50% of my calories from fat, with about half of that being saturated.

Total cholesterol: 145
HDL: 51
LDL: 82
Triglyceride/HDL ratio: 2.8
Triglyceride level: 45

[tweaked17]

yup, whole eggs, chicken, red meat, generous amounts of fruits and veggies, daily oat bran.... can't go wrong.

I wanted people to note the ratios of S:P:M fats, however. And I could tell it was a copy/paste because it clearly wasn't written casually (had a very formal tone) and it was pretty repetitive lol..


Your triglycerides are great man (and I thought mine were special)...how's the family history?

I would drink raw milk, but I just can't afford it in the quantities I drink at this point in my life. Hopefully all this work in college will pay off and I'll be able to lead my ideal lifestyle in a few years. I love to buy raw milk once in a while when I'm in Whole Foods for example. Usually I stick to skimmed, but from time to time 2% is what's in the fridge.


Anyway, maybe if we post enough contradictory evidence people will start to get the point. People refer to "studies" and "medical evidence" but I bet you none of them could refer to a study by name as Ira did above. This health issue is a great example of how people simply parrot information they hear.

[bravo03_old]

Wow, strong copy/paste. You care to cite sources buddy? (I'll do it for you)
http://www.dietsite.com/dt/diets/Hea...dictionary.asp


This thread is a train wreck, as is what usually happens when this question is asked (about weekly). Maybe I'll try something different... Over the past 3 days..

                  g        cal       %

Fat:  	       70   	629   	28%
  Sat: 	       29  	261  	12%
  Poly: 	8        72  	  3%
  Mono:       24      216      10%

Fat:  	       88   	791   	35%
  Sat: 	       33  	293  	13%
  Poly:        12  	106  	 5%
  Mono:        24       216  	9%

Fat:  	       51   	463   	29%
  Sat: 	       18  	161  	10%
  Poly:        10  	 90  	 6%
  Mono:        19      169  	10%

I've been eating like this for at least two years now, consistently.



I'll probably be getting another in a few months, and I'd be glad to share.

Edit: forgot to add that genetically, I'm a time bomb. My cousins (one a few years older than me, the other just one year) have already begun to follow in line with the rest of the family. 4 out of the 5 males on my father's side are on heavy statin use, 3/5 have had heart attacks, 2/5 have had repeat heart attacks/bypass operations.

Where you get the fat is just as important as what kind of fat it is...

lol i know, i did copy/paste it , but im still providing accurate information.

[gymgrown]

Yeah, I could post a bunch of links to info about studies, quote articles, etc, but i hate to sound like a broken record on this forum. RomenganNYC already posted a good article. If anyone wants some more good reading material, let me know and i'll point some stuff out.

Edit: bravo03, what you posted is conventional wisdom, which is different from accurate information.

[tweaked17]

lol i know, i did copy/paste it , but im still providing accurate information.

yup, it's just that you should cite when you pull info from the web. since most people here argue with information from the web rather than books, it's pretty much expected to just reference the page quickly if it's not your original idea/words.

"accurate" is up for debate, as that information was likely pulled from other places, which probably got their information from the same fault sources that have been brough up already - studies in which hydrogenated fats were grouped with saturated fats.

now that our society has separated trans and saturated fats, trans fats are now recognized as the most unnecessary and unhealthy, but saturated fats have retained their bad reputation from their grouping with trans fats. essentially, getting a bad rep for hanging out with the wrong crowd.

[gymgrown]

yup, it's just that you should cite when you pull info from the web. since most people here argue with information from the web rather than books, it's pretty much expected to just reference the page quickly if it's not your original idea/words.

"accurate" is up for debate, as that information was likely pulled from other places, which probably got their information from the same fault sources that have been brough up already - studies in which hydrogenated fats were grouped with saturated fats.

now that our society has separated trans and saturated fats, trans fats are now recognized as the most unnecessary and unhealthy, but saturated fats have retained their bad reputation from their grouping with trans fats. essentially, getting a bad rep for hanging out with the wrong crowd.

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to tweaked17 again."

[tweaked17]

Yeah, I could post a bunch of links to info about studies, quote articles, etc, but i hate to sound like a broken record on this forum. RomenganNYC already posted a good article. If anyone wants some more good reading material, let me know and i'll point some stuff out.

Edit: bravo03, what you posted is conventional wisdom, which is different from accurate information.

yeah, that was a really good link. i didn't get a chance to read it until i got back from the gym just now.

Thirty years ago you were considered hypercholesterolemia if you were a middle-aged man whose cholesterol was over 240 with other risk factors like smoking or obesity. At the National Institute of Health Consensus Development Conference in December of 1984, the parameters changed to men or women with levels above 200. [27] And a couple months ago I was told that doctors are considering 180 to be high and would like to see everybody around 170. [28] These recommendations are to the point of being unattainable by diet, exercise or any other lifestyle modification.

This paragraph is particularly good.


Not to pimp my own thread, but:

Re: Nutrition


First, let me say that the best thing you can do is spend more time in the nutrition section. Simply reading about and/or discussing nutrition will put you way ahead of the game. You learn something new every day. Share what works for you, nutrition is a dynamic subject - what's good for one person is not necessarily the answer for the next...
Fats
There are several types of fat, all with unique physiological effects. Fat has 9 calories per gram. Fat plays important roles in:
-storage and release of fat-soluble vitamins
-nervous system health
-regulation of cholesterol
-energy levels
-production of hormones

Saturated Fat - Saturated fat is solid at room temperature. Often toted as the most "unhealthy" fat, sat. fat has gotten a bad name over the years. Recent studies have been disproving this, however. Saturated fat does have the effect of raising total cholesterol levels (this means HDL AND LDL lipoproteins - see cholesterol below). As we learned above, saturated fat also has a marked effect on total testosterone production in active men. If you are young, healthy and have no outstanding health problems (like high cholesterol), you should not avoid saturated fat. It should not, however, make up the majority of your fat intake.
Examples found in: meat, animal products, dairy.

Monounsaturated Fat - Liquid at room temperature. Has a double bond between two carbons (hence, unsaturated, or not having as many hydrogens as possible). Has the most positive effect on cholesterol levels. Lowers LDL and raises HDL levels. MUFAs have been shown to have a protective effect against some forms of cancer and disease. Generally considered the most healthy fats; should comprise the majority of your fat intake.
Examples found in: plant-derived products, olive oil, nuts

Polyunsaturated Fat - Liquid at room temperature. Has multiple double bonds (poly). These fats degrade the easiest. Shown to lower total cholesterol (both HDL and LDL). Consuming excess PUFAs may be a potential risk factor for certain cancers and diseases.
Examples found in: Corn oil, soy

Trans Fat/Hydrogenated Oils - THE most detrimental fat. Should be avoided as much as possible; limit intake. Solid or gel-like at room temperature. Raise LDL and lower HDL levels. Linked to cancer and other diseases. Commonly employed as a preservative and/or additive to foods that need a shelf life (is delays rancidification by destroying EFAs [essential fatty acids]).
Examples: Fast food, commercially produced baked goods, candy bars, etc

from: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=11424244


It has been known for some time that there's a link between PUFAs and cancers, especially breast cancer. Animal studies have already proven that high PUFA intake is linked with increase in tumor incidence. It doesn't take a genius to see that the link between a highly-oxidizable molecule and cancer is the free radical production.

We're eating ourselves to death in this nation by following 'guidelines'

[ElMariachi]

Saturated fats are ABSOLUTELY necessary, especially for bodybuilders, for maintaining optimal hormonal levels and a vast variety of other functions that I won't get into here. I supplement daily with coconut oil, which has 14g of saturated fats per serving, I've been doing this for over a year, and guess what, my overall cholesterol readings are WELL in the healthy range.


Like many have mentioned, saturated fats got their bad rep by being associated with trans fats, there are cultures that consume ridiculous amounts of saturated fats, and still have low percentages of heart attacks and cardiovascular disease incidence. The trans fats are the real heart killers, there is never an OKAY time, or an OKAY amount of trans-fats to consume, period.