Why I'm strongly against Supplements.

[cdsfx]

The problem is I HAVE tried doing some research. I haven't been able to gather much information on most of these products. I don't where all this research that backs them is. It's definitely not on google.com and bodybuilding magazines and websites don't count, as these are biased sources. Even many nutrition magazines and websites are biased, since they pay for ads. If you help me find this information, I will humbly admit that there are supplements proven to be good for you.

Heres the thing I've been on muscle forums for a few years now. I know for a fact had I listed anything that was ridiculous and unproven on that list. I would've been ripped to shreds. Beyond the studies your ignoring years of anecdotal evidence collected by thousands of users. Quite frankly if you can't find pubmed studies on any of those I listed or reputable studies on google then you are obviously not looking.

I suggest you start with Beta-Alanine and come back with your findings. Even the wikipedia entry can tell you basic information of why this supplement works. Heres the facts its basic bio chemistry. You are buying into alot of drug company bs if you think these supplements do not help you both in exercise performance and health. I suggest you learn some bio chemistry and Kinesiology if you want to truly understand why these things work

[cdsfx]

According to this study, B-alanine supplementation improves running and sprinting performance on a group of football players:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22928989

B-alanine is found naturally in poultry, beef and fish, according to http://www.livestrong.com/article/33...-beta-alanine/.

OP look into muscle recovery and neutralizing free radicals and anti catabolic features. If you want to know why the supplements I listed help you build muscle this is the area you want to look in......and you are not going to find 6.4 grams of beta alanine in food

[melvinsito]

OP look into muscle recovery and neutralizing free radicals and anti catabolic features. If you want to know why the supplements I listed help you build muscle this is the area you want to look in......and you are not going to find 6.4 grams of beta alanine in food

I found this website dedicated to beta-alanine alone. It makes a very strong case about this supplement being good for bodybuilders and athletes. According to the website, it is also safe and the fact that it has plenty of references is good enough for me. http://www.betaalanine.info/.

I honestly don't know how much b-alanine is found in poultry, meat and fish. Have been googleing for a few minutes and have not found a thing, just the simple reference that it is found in these foods naturally. Do you know how much is found in these food products? The article suggests that taking an amount of 4-5 grams daily improves performance, compared to those taking 6.4 though. It seems as if you only need to replenish the amount stored in the body, which is similar to what you would do with creatine. Do you have any suggestion for a natural approach to b-alanine intake? If not, is there any specific one you'd recommend?

Alas! There is one supplement, additional to creatine, that has been proven to be effective and safe. This is a great find, actually. It even states that you should take both of these supplements together. Now, we can actually say there are only two supplements with proper research. Unfortunately, there are dozens of others which are unaccounted for. The good news: now we know the real supplements we should be taking.

Thanks for for this awesome find.

[melvinsito]

Heres the thing I've been on muscle forums for a few years now. I know for a fact had I listed anything that was ridiculous and unproven on that list. I would've been ripped to shreds. Beyond the studies your ignoring years of anecdotal evidence collected by thousands of users. Quite frankly if you can't find pubmed studies on any of those I listed or reputable studies on google then you are obviously not looking.

I suggest you start with Beta-Alanine and come back with your findings. Even the wikipedia entry can tell you basic information of why this supplement works. Heres the facts its basic bio chemistry. You are buying into alot of drug company bs if you think these supplements do not help you both in exercise performance and health. I suggest you learn some bio chemistry and Kinesiology if you want to truly understand why these things work

I have spent plenty of hours during these last couple of days googleing and looking at pubmed studies and have come with very few findings regarding supplementation. Until now, the ones I have found don't really make a statement as to even suggest that anyone should consume them. I have found on pubmed:
Fish oils - anti-inflammatory properties, found plenty in fish
Protein shakes - the results suggested that it's the same as eating fast food
BCAAs - the results suggested that, unless you're fasting or elderly, you don't need supplementation
Vitamin C and E - the results suggested that you shouldn't take more 100% the amount you're supposed to
Low carb, high protein diets - bad for your performance and health
Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) - good for adjusting your body's ph
Beta-alanine - which, like I said on my other comment, was also been found to enhance performance and can be found on poultry, meat and fish, although, I don't know if the amounts found in these is enough and according to the website I mentioned, it would make sense to supplement.

That's it. I didn't find any kind of information about any of the other products (I scrolled through several pages every time I entered keywords until the results didn't seem to be related anymore). Regarding what you said about reputable studies found on Google, I'm sorry, but I just can't find them. All of the VERY FEW results come from the companies themselves. Anecdotes are not evidence, and they become more questionable if they come from biased sources (of course every bodybuilder and bodybuilding magazine will tell you about how awesome the products are; they get paid for this) and only date back as a few years ago. You have to consider that bodybuilding has been around for over a century, while supplements have only been around for about 30 years (it is mainly a 90's trend). What is even more intriguing is HOW supplement companies have managed to stay as steady industry. Actually, supplement history is very interesting, but I'll leave that to another post. Personally, I think soon people will stop buying into all the crap. I give them 20 years tops, before the whole industry dies and people realize how much they've been made fools of.

[thefleshlight]

18 pages later, op is still posting in supplement section about she is still strongly against supplements.

hypocrite much?

[melvinsito]

18 pages later, op is still posting in supplement section about she is still strongly against supplements.

hypocrite much?

It hasn't been easy, but I've had the help of all my friends that commented on this thread.

[melvinsito]

I know the denial in this thread has a lot do with the fact that these companies and their representatives act as if they genuinely wanted to help you improve your life. There is a strong sense of brotherhood and companionship with it. It's even harder if they offer you to be part of their representatives team. I know that just the thought of having these companies betray would upset you all, but it's true. These companies don't truly care about your goals or your health. I don't think they genuinely want to see you fail or make sick either. They just don't really care about you. Period. That's as long as you buy their product. They just want to keep making money. That's it. Supplements are a multi-billion dollar industry and it has no regulation whatsoever. You can will never know what you're taking, because no entity regulates the safety of these products. Many "reputable" companies have been sued for the use of illegal substances in their products. You can literally make anything in your basement (which happens more than you think) and sell as a dietary supplement and you don't need any kind of approval. Additionally, profit margins for these products are crazy high (generally, ranging between 100% - 200%). So it's not like they're even trying to make it look like they are providing inexpensive alternatives. They know they can charge huge amounts of cash for anything without ever having to answer why, so they do. When you get 1 free bottle with your purchase, in most cases, you have already paid for 2 of them and still leave them with decent profit.

I truly don't mean to find enemies. My only goal is for this information to be clear for any other person who might actually decide to research it. Like I said before, if I do find some irrefutable evidence that a specific supplement is good for you or helps, I will gladly acknowledge it (in this thread the only one that has been proven to be safe and effective for performance is beta-alanine, which I suggest you start taking soon). Otherwise, I will just state the facts.

Ps: There is a high chance that 12%-20% of you have already consumed toxic or illegal substances with your supplements.

[fitnfirm]

I think its time to go do something else, you are a post whore in your own thread. Just think how much more training you could have had in
with the time it took to make these 149 posts in this thread......

Posts
149

melvinsito

[cdsfx]

You cannot discount anecdotal evidence. Not all forums are like this one. If a product doesnt get work it gets absolutely trashed in the forums. Examples include Pink Magic/anadrol-50/neurocore/etc. If an ingredient doesnt work then why would you see mass sales from it long term. That doesnt make sense Not everyone is a rep in disguise look into forums beyond this one its pretty easy to tell when a supplement is effective or not.

By your logic about discounting all supplement studies except those endorsed by fox news. Then I would hope this suspicion would extend to pharmaceutical drugs. That industry is also trying to sell you one something. They are not as heavily regulated as you might think. You will find far more people that get injured or poisoned by drugs then supplements. FYI your doctor does not know **** about supplements he is not briefed on them or educated. So you will find far more experts online. YOU NEED TO GO AND LOOK AROUND BEYOND THIS BOX YOU'VE PLACED YOURSELF IN. IF YOU WANT A SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATION FOR HOW ALL THE SUPPLEMENTS i MENTIONED TO YOU WORK GO OVER TO ANABOLIC MINDS AND ASK PATRICK ARNOLD IN THE SUPPLEMENT SECTION. On another note thank you for reminding me why I stopped visiting this forum. Their is a reason why its a joke on every other muscle building site.

By the way GMP testing is done on many companies products. If it passes their standards then the product is fine.

I know the denial in this thread has a lot do with the fact that these companies and their representatives act as if they genuinely wanted to help you improve your life. There is a strong sense of brotherhood and companionship with it. It's even harder if they offer you to be part of their representatives team. I know that just the thought of having these companies betray would upset you all, but it's true. These companies don't truly care about your goals or your health. I don't think they genuinely want to see you fail or make sick either. They just don't really care about you. Period. That's as long as you buy their product. They just want to keep making money. That's it. Supplements are a multi-billion dollar industry and it has no regulation whatsoever. You can will never know what you're taking, because no entity regulates the safety of these products. Many "reputable" companies have been sued for the use of illegal substances in their products. You can literally make anything in your basement (which happens more than you think) and sell as a dietary supplement and you don't need any kind of approval. Additionally, profit margins for these products are crazy high (generally, ranging between 100% - 200%). So it's not like they're even trying to make it look like they are providing inexpensive alternatives. They know they can charge huge amounts of cash for anything without ever having to answer why, so they do. When you get 1 free bottle with your purchase, in most cases, you have already paid for 2 of them and still leave them with decent profit.

I truly don't mean to find enemies. My only goal is for this information to be clear for any other person who might actually decide to research it. Like I said before, if I do find some irrefutable evidence that a specific supplement is good for you or helps, I will gladly acknowledge it (in this thread the only one that has been proven to be safe and effective for performance is beta-alanine, which I suggest you start taking soon). Otherwise, I will just state the facts.

Ps: There is a high chance that 12%-20% of you have already consumed toxic or illegal substances with your supplements.

[righteousreason]

Why I'm strongly against reading your wall of text and/or giving a single ****.

Congrats on your kindergarten level knowledge of supplementation, basic rules of stuff most members know, and not citing a single source for any of your studies.

yep

[BlueRev]

I think its time to go do something else, you are a post whore in your own thread. Just think how much more training you could have had in
with the time it took to make these 149 posts in this thread......

Posts
149

melvinsito

This.

[BlueRev]

@OP
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/to...-nutrition.htm

Here you go
Cardio igniter references


(1) Utilization of lipids during exercise in human subjects: metabolic and dietary constraints British Journal of Nutrition (1998), 79, 117-128

(2) Kunkel, S.D., et al. "mRNA Expression Signatures of Human Skeletal Muscle Atrophy Identify a Natural Compound that Supports Muscle Mass." Cell Metabolism 13 (2011): 627-38.

(3) Dietary nitrate supplementation reduces the O2 cost of low-intensity exercise and enhances tolerance to high-intensity exercise in humans J Appl Physiol 107 (2009): 1144-1155.

(4) Lansley, K.E., et al. "Acute Dietary Nitrate Supplementation Improves Cycling Time Trial Performance." Med Sci Sports Exerc. 43.6 (2011): 1125-31.

(5) Morimoto, C. et. al. "Action of Raspberry Ketone." Life Sci. 77.2 (2005): 194-204. Epub 2005 Feb 25.

(6) Park, Kyoung Sik. "Raspberry Ketone Increases Both Lipolysis and Fatty Acid Oxidation in 3T3-L1 Adipocytes." Planta Med 76 (2010): 1654-1658.

(7) Steiber, A., et. al. "Carnitine: A Nutritional, Biosynthetic, and Functional Perspective." Mol Aspects Med. 25.5-6 (2004): 455-73.

(8) Muller, D.M., et. al. "Effects of Oral L-carnitine Supplementation on in vivo Long-chain Fatty Acid Oxidation in Healthy Adults." Metabolism. 51.11 (2002): 1389-91.

(9) Artioli, G.G., et. al. "Role of beta-alanine supplementation on muscle carnosine and exercise performance." Med Sci Sports Exerc. 42.6 (2010): 1162-73.

(10) Sojin An, Jang-Il Han, Min-Jung Kim, Ji-Seon Park, Jong-Min Han, Nam-In Baek, Hae-Gon Chung, Myung-Sook Choi, Kyung-Tae Lee, and Tae-Sook Jeong. Journal of Medicinal Food 13.2 (2010): 406-414. doi:10.1089/jmf.2009.1295.

(11) A selective human beta3 adrenergic receptor agonist increases metabolic rate in rhesus monkeys. J Clin Invest. 1998; 101(11):2387-2393 doi:10.1172/JCI2496

(12) Tumilty, L., et. al. "Oral Tyrosine Supplementation Improves Exercise Capacity in the Heat." Eur J Appl Physiol. 111.12 (2011): 2941-50. Epub 2011 Mar 25.

(13) University of Maryland Medical Center. L-tyrosine and thyroid.

(14) Zhang, M. et. al. "Role of Taurine Supplementation to Prevent Exercise-induced Oxidative Stress in Healthy Young Men." Amino Acids. 26.2 (2004): 203-7. Epub 2003 May 9.

(15) Taurine in adipocytes prevents insulin-mediated H(2)o (2) generation and activates Pka and lipolysis Amino Acids 2011 May 3. [Epub ahead of print]

(16) Glaister, M., et. al. "Caffeine Supplementation and Multiple Sprint Running Performance." Med Sci Sports Exerc. 40.10 (2008): 1835-40.

(17) Mohr, M., et. al. "Caffeine Intake Improves Intense Intermittent Exercise Performance and Reduces Muscle Interstitial Potassium Accumulation." J Appl Physiol. 111.5 (2011): 1372-9. Epub 2011 Aug 11.

(18) Fisone, G., et. al. "Caffeine as a Psychomotor Stimulant: Mechanism of Action." Cell Mol Life Sci. 61.7-8 (2004): 857-72.

(19) Ryu, S., et. al. "Caffeine as a Lipolytic Food Component Increases Endurance Performance in Rats and Athletes." J Nutr Sci Vitaminol (Tokyo). 47.2 (2001): 139-46.

(20) "Capsaicin-like Anti-obese Activities of Evodiamine from Fruits of Evodia rutaecarpa, a Vanilloid Receptor Agonist." Planta Med. 67.7: 628-33.

(21) Evodiamine improves diet-induced obesity in a uncoupling protein-1-independent manner: involvement of antiadipogenic mechanism and extracellularly regulated kinase/mitogen-activated protein kinase signaling Endocrinology 2008 Jan;149(1):358-66. Epub 2007 Sep 20.

(22) Sandage, B.W., Sabounjian, L.A., Wuronene, R.I. "Effects of Choline on Athletic Performance and Fatigue." Abstract from National Institutes of Health Workshop on The Role of Dietary Supplements for Physically Active People. June 3-4, 1996, Bethesda, MD.

(23) Caffeine, Carnitine and Choline Supplementation of Rats Decreases Body Fat and Serum Leptin Concentration as Does Exercise. J. Nutr. February 1, 2000 vol. 130 no. 2 152-157

(24) Increases in VO2max and metabolic markers of fat oxidation by caffeine, carnitine, and choline supplementation in rats. J Nutr Biochem. 2000 Oct;11(10):521-6.

(25) Benton, D., et. al. "Thiamine Supplementation Mood and Cognitive Functioning." Psychopharmacology (Berl). 129.1 (1997): 66-71.

(26) Shirreffs, S.M., et. al. "Fluid and Electrolyte Needs for Training, Competition, and Recovery." J Sports Sci. 29 Suppl 1 (2011): S39-46.

[rhadam]

I think its time to go do something else, you are a post whore in your own thread. Just think how much more training you could have had in
with the time it took to make these 149 posts in this thread......

Posts
149

melvinsito

For justice!

[Hightower8]

I found this website dedicated to beta-alanine alone. It makes a very strong case about this supplement being good for bodybuilders and athletes. According to the website, it is also safe and the fact that it has plenty of references is good enough for me. http://www.betaalanine.info/.

I honestly don't know how much b-alanine is found in poultry, meat and fish. Have been googleing for a few minutes and have not found a thing, just the simple reference that it is found in these foods naturally. Do you know how much is found in these food products? The article suggests that taking an amount of 4-5 grams daily improves performance, compared to those taking 6.4 though. It seems as if you only need to replenish the amount stored in the body, which is similar to what you would do with creatine. Do you have any suggestion for a natural approach to b-alanine intake? If not, is there any specific one you'd recommend?

Alas! There is one supplement, additional to creatine, that has been proven to be effective and safe. This is a great find, actually. It even states that you should take both of these supplements together. Now, we can actually say there are only two supplements with proper research. Unfortunately, there are dozens of others which are unaccounted for. The good news: now we know the real supplements we should be taking.

Thanks for for this awesome find.

Dude. Once again....You really, really need a lesson on credible sources.

[thefleshlight]

It hasn't been easy, but I've had the help of all my friends that commented on this thread.

*******

[Joe D]

I'd be on the beach if I was in P.R, not on some supp forum.

[thefleshlight]

I'd be on the beach if I was in P.R, not on some supp forum.

Common son

She loves trying to argue with half naked dudes online than sun and hoes on a beach.

[ajj28]

progress pics w/o supps imo

[aioros777]

If you disagree with supps, wtf u doing on a supps page?

Negged for wasting my time.

[sy2502]

I know the denial in this thread

Nobody here is in denial. Except maybe you. You have been told about a million times that nobody here believes supps are magic, or that they are anything but what the name spells out, supplements to a good diet.

has a lot do with the fact that these companies and their representatives act as if they genuinely wanted to help you improve your life. There is a strong sense of brotherhood and companionship with it. It's even harder if they offer you to be part of their representatives team. I know that just the thought of having these companies betray would upset you all, but it's true. These companies don't truly care about your goals or your health. I don't think they genuinely want to see you fail or make sick either. They just don't really care about you. Period. That's as long as you buy their product. They just want to keep making money.

I don't know any of the reps in here, and little to nothing of what they post has much influence in my life (with all due respect for the reps here). I and everybody else around here knows they are here to do their job, which is to sell their product. Maybe you thought they are here out of the goodness of their heart to charitably help people. But then you are young.

My only goal is for this information to be clear for any other person who might actually decide to research it.

Patronizing much? As in... thank god you are here to instruct us poor idiots and guide us to the light? You do realize people here are literate and, OMG, maybe even educated and intelligent? You do realize you aren't the only person here with access to an Internet search engine? Or that you aren't the only person who research supplements before using them?

[lucia316]

Patronizing much? As in... thank god you are here to instruct us poor idiots and guide us to the light? You do realize people here are literate and, OMG, maybe even educated and intelligent? You do realize you aren't the only person here with access to an Internet search engine? Or that you aren't the only person who research supplements before using them?

3.84 GPA in a Puerto Rican culinary school. He's perfected the art of mofongo and tostones. He's hella smart yo.

ITT we all got trolled by a rep whoring moron.

[teamHIKfitness]

*******

Just because OP gets his protein from food and by sucking on the shaft of a man does not mean he is a *******.... Or does it?

[thefleshlight]

Just because OP gets his protein from food and by sucking on the shaft of a man does not mean he is a *******.... Or does it?

Get's his protein direct from the tap...... IDK anything about that.

Dude's avatar should become a meme: strongly against supplements.... that's only area where he has strength.

[Outside backer]

This thread is now about ERGOSHRED / ERGBOlic combo

[sy2502]

I have this strong urge to neg anyone who keeps bumping this piece of crap thread instead of letting it die like it deserves.

[Outside backer]

I have this strong urge to neg anyone who keeps bumping this piece of crap thread instead of letting it die like it deserves.

Bring it,

My negs will blot out your son

[miridel]

Just because OP gets his protein from food and by sucking on the shaft of a man does not mean he is a *******.... Or does it?

rofl

[DestroyYou]

Snacks: 2 yogurts, 1 peanut butter sandwich, 1/4cup of almonds and 16oz of chocolate milk - 61 grams of protein.

I want to know what kind of yogurt, peanut butter, almonds, and milk can give you 61g of protein!!! That seems a little high for me. Anyone else?

1 serving of chobani nonfat plain greek yogurt has 23 grams of protein each serving. i eat 2 servings every morning along with a PB sandwich and 6 egg whites.

considering witch bread you are using for the peanutbutter, each bread/slice of whole wheat i buy is 5 grams of protein each plus the 2 servings of peanutbutter that i add to each serving is 7 grams of protein.

only counting that and you are already consuming 70 grams of protein and that is actually my morning meal that i have for breakfast everyday. plus the the 6 egg whites = 88 grams of protein for breakfast in total

you really dont need protein supplements to get your daily protein requirements.

[thefleshlight]

This thread is now about ERGOSHRED / ERGBOlic combo

gtfo with that homo shyt

homo

considering witch bread

WHOA WHOA, wait. Where does one find witch bread? Macros?

[DestroyYou]

WHOA WHOA, wait. Where does one find witch bread? Macros?

http://www.foodforlife.com/product-c...lourless-bread

i buy mine from trader joe's