My Novice 5x5 For Bodybuilders.

[Charlie581]

I'm starting to notice some visual and strength imbalances in my upper body. My left side, specifically my arms/shoulders and even chest and lats to an extent are noticeably bigger (to me at least) than my right side. I'm left handed, and do everything with the left side of my body (throwing, kicking, you name it).

I'm pretty confident on my form for most of the lifts. Has anyone else had a problem with this?

This is the kind of situation that if still persistent into intermediate levels, dumbbells can be useful.


BUT it's hard to determine "true" imbalances until you have a considerable amount of progression

[Xcxcal88]

This is the kind of situation that if still persistent into intermediate levels, dumbbells can be useful.


BUT it's hard to determine "true" imbalances until you have a considerable amount of progression

Got it. I also have a shoulder impingement in my right shoulder (the weak/smaller side) that I'm trying to fix, so that is probably a big part of the problem. Pretty frustrating...

[Charlie581]

Btw I'm in the gym right now and just got done with the first set of squats

Took 2 200mg caffeine pills prior

Holy CRAP in sweating like crazy right now and it's pretty tough to breath :/

Definitely be careful with caffeine dosage guys this ****s got my heart rate going like crazy lol gonna take it easy and try to calm down now

[Xcxcal88]

Btw I'm in the gym right now and just got done with the first set of squats

Took 2 200mg caffeine pills prior

Holy CRAP in sweating like crazy right now and it's pretty tough to breath :/

Definitely be careful with caffeine dosage guys this ****s got my heart rate going like crazy lol gonna take it easy and try to calm down now

Lol 400mg is a lot to take at once, especially if haven't built up any sort of tolerance.

[Charlie581]

Lol 400mg is a lot to take at once, especially if haven't built up any sort of tolerance.

I actually have a reasonable tolerance to stimulants

Every preworkout I have tried gives me little to no additional wake up
As well caffeine normally doesn't have a large effect on me, I have just never take this dosage on its own before lol

Again I'm taking plenty of time between sets to be on the safe side

[mtnmama]

Took 2 200mg caffeine pills prior

Nice....I reintroduced caffeine about 3 weeks ago - right before I started 5x5 (ok 3x5 for me).

I started with 275 / pill or drink. I am up to that 3x a day. I specifically was NOT taking right before work out - until yesterday - now I prefer it. It can be a little off-putting though.

I like my stimulants Used to think they were just bs - but yes - now I am a fan. I have to watch for migraines, though - used to trigger them.

[Sidonex]

Nice progress, man. How is your bench press form?

It was terrible, i was keeping my shoulders forward working my delts more than my chest. I went from 165 to 190 on bench once I started keeping my shoulders back. I can't seem to get past 190 though, hopefully eating in a calorie surplus will make a difference.

[Ampedlift]

He meant weight on bar, not body weight. And P/P/L is simply inferior to 3xFullbody for a novice from a standpoint of speed of progression and protein synthesis. There is no "dead time" in a fullbody routine, protein sythesis is always elevated. Can't say the same for P/P/L. Plus, if someone hold a gun to your head and told you to increase your bench or squat by 50lbs in 1 month or else, would you bench 3x a week or 2x a week? Again, simply inferior.

Well nobody is holding a gun to my head telling me I must squat 3x a week, and I certainly don't want to.

IMO somebody might be able to progress better on a different program even like PPL , maybe adding 5 lbs to the bar everytime isnt the way they progress best but by other means of progressively overloading as well

[thatPUNKdude]

Hey everyone,

I'm new to the BB.com and this program for that matter. I've been running it for about 2 weeks now and loving it. However, I have a question about hyperextension progression. How do you guys do it? I do them while holding a 25 lb plate. I can do 12 at the moment for a few sets. Going to a 35lb plate seems like a large increase and I don't want to progress so fast that my lower back becomes to strong and potentially creates some muscle imbalances. Any help would be great

[Ampedlift]

Hey everyone,

I'm new to the BB.com and this program for that matter. I've been running it for about 2 weeks now and loving it. However, I have a question about hyperextension progression. How do you guys do it? I do them while holding a 25 lb plate. I can do 12 at the moment for a few sets. Going to a 35lb plate seems like a large increase and I don't want to progress so fast that my lower back becomes to strong and potentially creates some muscle imbalances. Any help would be great

I just did BW x 10, BW x 12, 10lb x 10, 10lb x 12, 25lb x 10, 25lb x 12 etc.

worked for me iunno

[cookaymuscle]

Hey everyone,

I'm new to the BB.com and this program for that matter. I've been running it for about 2 weeks now and loving it. However, I have a question about hyperextension progression. How do you guys do it? I do them while holding a 25 lb plate. I can do 12 at the moment for a few sets. Going to a 35lb plate seems like a large increase and I don't want to progress so fast that my lower back becomes to strong and potentially creates some muscle imbalances. Any help would be great

I recently switched Hyperextensions for Goodmornings for this same reason.

[BuffMaltese]

Hey everyone,

I'm new to the BB.com and this program for that matter. I've been running it for about 2 weeks now and loving it. However, I have a question about hyperextension progression. How do you guys do it? I do them while holding a 25 lb plate. I can do 12 at the moment for a few sets. Going to a 35lb plate seems like a large increase and I don't want to progress so fast that my lower back becomes to strong and potentially creates some muscle imbalances. Any help would be great

I have only been doing the 10 reps and adding 5 lbs each workout. I just hold 2 weights at the same time if I have to. Haven't done 60 lbs yet which I actually think is today, but I'll probably hold a 45 at the bottom then lay a 10 lb and a 5 lb flat next to each other on the 45 plate.

[makeitright]

So I'm going to test my maxes tomorrow morning and just had a few questions before I got started. I understand that we're supposed to be using 75% of our 1 rm for the 5x5 lifts and 65% for the 3x8's, however, how do I go about finding out what weights to start with on hyperextensions and cable crunches? Is there a certain percentage I should be basing them off as well?

[Charlie581]

In case anyone has ever been curious about the High-bar vs Low-bar discussion (For squats)...

[mtnmama]

In case anyone has ever been curious about the High-bar vs Low-bar discussion (For squats)...

^this....I have been meaning to look this up - thanks

[MrSlippery]

So I'm going to test my maxes tomorrow morning and just had a few questions before I got started. I understand that we're supposed to be using 75% of our 1 rm for the 5x5 lifts and 65% for the 3x8's, however, how do I go about finding out what weights to start with on hyperextensions and cable crunches? Is there a certain percentage I should be basing them off as well?

Not sure about cable crunches as I dont have a machine to do them on (do weighted crunches instead) but for hyperextensions I would just start with body weight for your first workout. Being an accessory its not as big of a deal and if you find the 3x8 BW is far to easy just grab a 10lb plate on the next workout.

Just my recommendation.

[d3votion]

I really don't understand why everyone is so headstrong to jump on a PPL

Like really, I don't see the big deal lol It's a decent way to structure a workout routine but it's not that great, especially for people who can still add some considerable weight?

Oh well though, like I said in the end it's what you "want" to do that will make one of the largest impacts.

Not everyone can handle the progression of working out 3 times a week. Especially if you're older and have already made lots of gains. You're still light and young. Wait until you get your LBM up a bit and get more towards 30.

I nearly had a nervous breakdown today during 2 hour bus ride to work reading people getting burning out on ICF5x5 lol. When I got to the gym I smoked the weight man, setting new squat PR I'm kinda glad I squatted today instead of freaking out.

Good for you. Are you saying that the people that can't handle ICF 5x5 are freaking out? If you're body can't handle it, why try to make it work?

[Charlie581]

Not everyone can handle the progression of working out 3 times a week. Especially if you're older and have already made lots of gains. You're still light and young. Wait until you get your LBM up a bit and get more towards 30.

Age has only a slight effect on handling frequency. Handling progression 3x a week as well is due to weight lifting abilities, not age.

As well there are MANY people close to/over the age of 30 who train with 3x frequency and even HIGHER than that (smolov, sheiko, 5/3/1, tons of programs run by people of all different ages with HIGH frequency and AMAZING results). The human body has a much better ability to adapt than most people give it credit for (assuming you rest/eat well enough)

[d3votion]

He meant weight on bar, not body weight. And P/P/L is simply inferior to 3xFullbody for a novice from a standpoint of speed of progression and protein synthesis. There is no "dead time" in a fullbody routine, protein sythesis is always elevated. Can't say the same for P/P/L. Plus, if someone hold a gun to your head and told you to increase your bench or squat by 50lbs in 1 month or else, would you bench 3x a week or 2x a week? Again, simply inferior.

Or you have 2 job offers ; Job A pays you 2x a week, and Job B pays you 3x a week, which would you take?

There is a point where a beginner cannot sustain this type of workout. You guys are advocating the more is better philosophy and are saying its the sure fire way and all I can say to that is good luck you you guys once you max out on newb gains... This program will actually begin to hold you back.

Can-o-Man, Isle 12 of your local supermarket.

Yeah, because listening to your body with signs of ovetraining is not manly, right? LOL, it's people like you that visit snap city.

[d3votion]

Age has only a slight effect on handling frequency. Handling progression 3x a week as well is due to weight lifting abilities, not age.

As well there are MANY people close to/over the age of 30 who train with 3x frequency and even HIGHER than that (smolov, sheiko, 5/3/1, tons of programs run by people of all different ages with HIGH frequency and AMAZING results). The human body has a much better ability to adapt than most people give it credit for (assuming you rest/eat well enough)

True. I'm not saying age is the only factor. And again with the story of "he can do this and they do that"...That's fine but not everyone can

[Charlie581]

Yeah, because not listening to your body with signs of ovetraining is not manly, right? LOL, it's people like you that visit snap city.

I don't think you really have a solid grasp of the ambiguous term of "Overtraining"

As well, worrying about snap city because form is dangerous is one thing. Getting scared to lift some heavy chit' because your tired is another.


Heres a video that i think covers the "Overtraining" topic pretty well from Layne Norton
http://www.biolayne.com/uncategorize...-overtraining/
HIGHLY encourage watching this

True. I'm not saying age is the only factor. And again with the story of "he can do this and they do that"...That's fine but not everyone can

To the individuals who say "oh i can't do this/i can't handle that/it's too tough"...You wanna know what i tell them?

PROVE IT and show me that you can't! Don't say you can't before you even try.

[d3votion]

I don't think you really have a solid grasp of the ambiguous term of "Overtraining"

As well, worrying about snap city because form is dangerous is one thing. Getting scared to lift some heavy chit' is another.


Heres a video that i think covers the "Overtraining" topic pretty well from Layne Norton
http://www.biolayne.com/uncategorize...-overtraining/
HIGHLY encourage watching this

So are you telling me that me waking up on cold sweats and waking up 3 times within an hour. Feeling tired all day. Feeling irritable. Having muscle and joint aches. Lack of energy throughout day. Performance decrease in gym. Loss of motivation. Drop in intesity. Are all not signs of overtraining? I know what my body is telling me. It's time to back off.

[Charlie581]

So are you telling me that me waking up on cold sweats and waking up 3 times within an hour. Feeling tired all day. Feeling irritable. Having muscle and joint aches. Lack of energy throughout day. Performance decrease in gym. Loss of motivation. Drop in intesity. Are all not signs of overtraining? I know what my body is telling me. It's time to back off.

Yes those are specifically signs of reaching "overtraining"

So deload. This does't mean that the frequency is bad, you have just reached a limit and require a taper in workload for a short time to allow for better recover. Back off for a week and come back, and you WILL be stronger. Do you think a PPL cannot cause those effects?

Again, watch the video i posted.

[d3votion]

PROVE IT and show me that you can't! Don't say you can't before you even try.

I can lift the weight. It's what my body tells me outside the gym. No point in being retarded when my body is on the brink of breakdown and continuing to lift the same heavy ass weight that caused my body to shut down in the first place..

[Charlie581]

I can lift the weight. It's what my body tells me outside the gym. No point in being retarded when my body is on the brink of breakdown and continuing to lift the same heavy ass weight that caused my body to shut down in the first place..

Yes those are specifically signs of reaching "overtraining"

So deload. This does't mean that the frequency is bad, you have just reached a limit and require a taper in workload for a short time to allow for better recover. Back off for a week and come back, and you WILL be stronger. Do you think a PPL cannot cause those effects?

Again, watch the video i posted.

^^^

I said what i said to address the feelings of being slightly tired and a little sore (Basically when an individual is just being a wuss)

The symptoms you described though, are in-fact indicators of overreaching. So guess what. You deload. You don't need to get a new program. Watch. The. Video. I. Posted.

[d3votion]

Yes those are specifically signs of reaching "overtraining"

So deload. This does't mean that the frequency is bad, you have just reached a limit and require a taper in workload for a short time to allow for better recover. Back off for a week and come back, and you WILL be stronger. Do you think a PPL cannot cause those effects?

Again, watch the video i posted.

I've taken off an entire week already a while back. It didn't take long for me to hit a wall again. One thing I have noticed though is that I really need to work on my mobility. My muscles are tighter than a steel cable. I'll watch the video you posted now.

[Charlie581]

I've taken off an entire week already a while back. It didn't take long for me to hit a wall again. One thing I have noticed though is that I really need to work on my mobility. My muscles are tighter than a steel cable. I'll watch the video you posted now.

Then you did/are doing something wrong if you are experiencing these sensations so close after a deload.

Chances are...
1. Maybe you didn't deload properly (Workload was not reduced sufficiently)
2. Caloric intake has changed
3. Rest/recovery has changed
4. Addition of stressors (Mental/daily physical activity)
5. Possible medical complications
etc.....

Simply pinning it on "Too much frequency" is not a proper diagnosis.




PS: "I've taken off an entire week already a while back." -- If it is more than 4 weeks ago, than you could do another deload.

[d3votion]

^^^

I said what i said to address the feelings of being slightly tired and a little sore (Basically when an individual is just being a wuss)

The symptoms you described though, are in-fact indicators of overreaching. So guess what. You deload. You don't need to get a new program. Watch. The. Video. I. Posted.

That's just the thing i cannot stand. People thinking that I'm just complaining about the heavy work and cannot do it. Dude, I've been in the Marines and I was infantry. I have the mentality to push through anything that most cannot handle. I'm extremely hard headed and full of competitiveness. When people question my testicular fortitude, I want to hunt them down an twist their necks! Not talking about you specifically but it's the people on these forums that continue to say crap like "man up". They just don't understand how much I want to hurt them...

[Charlie581]

That's just the thing i cannot stand. People thinking that I'm just complaining about the heavy work and cannot do it. Dude, I've been in the Marines and I was infantry. I have the mentality to push through anything that most cannot handle. I'm extremely hard headed and full of competitiveness. When people question my testicular fortitude, I want to hunt them down an twist their necks! Not talking about you specifically but it's the people on these forums that continue to say crap like "man up". They just don't understand how much I want to hurt them...

Im not sure what it is your trying to say anymore to be honest. Your first comments are still confusing me

"There is a point where a beginner cannot sustain this type of workout. You guys are advocating the more is better philosophy and are saying its the sure fire way and all I can say to that is good luck you you guys once you max out on newb gains... This program will actually begin to hold you back.
" -- No one argued against the fact that linear progression lasts forever, so idk what the point of this statement was

"Yeah, because listening to your body with signs of ovetraining is not manly, right? LOL, it's people like you that visit snap city." --Nobody said ignore overtraining signs. What is said though, is that when signs start to rear, you deload. And as well, reaching overtraining is not inhrantly a terrible thing when handled correctly


"Not everyone can handle the progression of working out 3 times a week. Especially if you're older and have already made lots of gains. You're still light and young. Wait until you get your LBM up a bit and get more towards 30." --This is the one that struck a cord. Essentialy you stated because of my age and LBM amount, this somehow attributes to being able to handle high frequency. So if i was 30years of age, and had more muscle mass, i should reduce frequency to grow/progress? I dont think so"

Then you did/are doing something wrong if you are experiencing these sensations so close after a deload.

Chances are...
1. Maybe you didn't deload properly (Workload was not reduced sufficiently)
2. Caloric intake has changed
3. Rest/recovery has changed
4. Addition of stressors (Mental/daily physical activity)
5. Possible medical complications
etc.....

Simply pinning it on "Too much frequency" and overtraining is not a proper diagnosis.


PS: "I've taken off an entire week already a while back." -- If it is more than 4 weeks ago, than you could do another deload.

^Take a closer look at how things have been the past few weeks. Again, from the symptoms you described, something needs to be catered to.

[makeitright]

Not sure about cable crunches as I dont have a machine to do them on (do weighted crunches instead) but for hyperextensions I would just start with body weight for your first workout. Being an accessory its not as big of a deal and if you find the 3x8 BW is far to easy just grab a 10lb plate on the next workout.

Just my recommendation.

Cool, I appreciate it. So I'm assuming that for cable crunches and hyperextensions that the 2-5 lb increase per workout are exceptions?