My Novice 5x5 For Bodybuilders.

[UberSuper]

My knowitall attitude is starting to bite me in the ass and I need some help.

When I started this routine 3 months ago I didn't follow up on the 1RM at all. I just went straight into the 5x5 or 3x8 for all my lifts without trying to figure out my 1RM. Today I did 100lb standing press for the second time (I go up in weight every 2 exercises since I'm on a clean bulk) and failed on the 3rd set even though I did it 5x5 on my last workout just fine. Maybe it's all mental but I'm starting to think I f***ed up because of my knowitall attitude going into the routine. I know if I fail a workout I should go down 10% and keep doing progressive overload. In my case should I go by the progressive overload OR restart by trying my 1RM and find my rep weight the way I was supposed to?

A little FYI, I never bothered doing the 10% decrease for the times I couldn't finish a lift. I just went back to the weight I failed on for my next exercise (many times successfully) OR just go back down 5 pounds and keep going up by 5lbs. For example, if I failed a 90 pound standing press and felt like I was close to successfully doing it I would do the 90lb standing press again on my next day of Workout B. If I didn't feel like I could do it on my next workout and failed miserably I would simply go back down 5 pounds.

I don't think figuring out your 1RM matters now that you've already been doing work sets with weights that are challenging you. Just follow the program properly and do the resets. It may be a small hit to your pride in the short term but they're in the program to maximize your gains properly in the long term. Likewise, add more weight when you're supposed to rather than doing the same amount twice. Whatever weight you do for the standing press next workout probably doesn't matter much, just pick one and follow the program from here on in.

[garardn01]

Follow the program. ^^^This is not the procedure for progression. Keep the same weight until you fail two workouts in a row. then reset between 15% and 20% and ramp back up.

I know that is off from the routine progression. That's a measure of how weak I felt, the 225 was barely happening on the first set and wasn't about to risk injuring my back because of poor form. Started feeling better after the 2nd 185 set so gave it another go.

This will be my second reset in 4 weeks. Seems a bit much considering I'm not lifting anything crazy and proportionately my squats are low compared to my other lifts.

[Soulforged]

so tell me if i got this right,if you first time fail on 4th set you lower weight on 5th set for 10%,then next workout if you fail again same thing lowering weight for 10%,and then 3th workout you do reset from begining and staring with 10% lowered weight?

[musikguy72]

I know that is off from the routine progression. That's a measure of how weak I felt, the 225 was barely happening on the first set and wasn't about to risk injuring my back because of poor form. Started feeling better after the 2nd 185 set so gave it another go.

This will be my second reset in 4 weeks. Seems a bit much considering I'm not lifting anything crazy and proportionately my squats are low compared to my other lifts.

But that was just that one workout, right? So you go back in next time you do the same lift and you try again with the same weight (225). that's what I was talking about. You were asking what to do after one fail. The answer is nothing until you fail a second or third time. Have you done that lift again since?

[michcoth1]

so tell me if i got this right,if you first time fail on 4th set you lower weight on 5th set for 10%,then next workout if you fail again same thing lowering weight for 10%,and then 3th workout you do reset from begining and staring with 10% lowered weight?

No, this isn't right, unless I'm misinterpreting what you're trying to say. Let's say you are doing the workouts Mon, Wed, Fri ABA, and that you're failing on squats.
Mon workout A: You fail on the 3rd rep of your 4th set; stop here, do not try your 4th and 5th reps. Continue with the weight on your 5th set, and try to complete as many reps as you can.
Wed workout B: You've only failed once so far, so you are using the same weight from Mon. You fail again, on one of your sets.
Fri workout A: You've failed the same exercise two workouts in a row now, so now you are supposed to take Monday's weight and reduce it by 10-15%

EDIT: Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not entirely sure about trying to do your 5th set on the Mon workout A.

[Soulforged]

EDIT: Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not entirely sure about trying to do your 5th set on the Mon workout A.

yea that's what bothers me about next set when you failed previous.

either 5 5 4 3 3

or 5 5 4 (lower weight) 5 5

[michcoth1]

yea that's what bothers me about next set when you failed previous.

either 5 5 4 3 3

or 5 5 4 (lower weight) 5 5

I'm fairly certain Jason specified this somewhere in the 86 pages of this thread. I just can't remember what he said. If you're really worried about it, it might be worth a look/search.

[Xhale12]

Im a bit confused. Is this a 2 day a week program? I lift 3 days a week... How would I split all these exercises up?

[michcoth1]

Im a bit confused. Is this a 2 day a week program? I lift 3 days a week... How would I split all these exercises up?

It's 3 days a week with an ABA format. Watch the video, there are lots of necessary details in there.

For example
Week 1: Mon (A) Wed(B) Fri(A)
Week2: Mon(B) Wed(A) Fri(B)

[HeAdAcHeS]

Starting this next week...Been lifting for about 6 months and have been on that chest/tri, etc split ... wish I started this from the start.

Current lifts:
175 x 5 - Bench
215 x 5 - Squat
235 x 5 - DL

Hoping these will shoot up ... been stuck for a while.

Thanks for the workout, looking forward to seeing some progress

edit: Knew i forgot something important...

What % of weight should I start out? In class right now so I won't be able to watch the video till later

[LeeTage]

Okay im finishing this program in May

Only problems that im facing with this is i can't recover well enough on squats 3x a week.

Can say huge gains in chest, legs and back.

[OBigdog26]

okay im finishing this program in may

only problems that im facing with this is i can't recover well enough on squats 3x a week.

Can say huge gains in chest, legs and back.

eat!!

[garardn01]

But that was just that one workout, right? So you go back in next time you do the same lift and you try again with the same weight (225). that's what I was talking about. You were asking what to do after one fail. The answer is nothing until you fail a second or third time. Have you done that lift again since?

Ah, there's the disconnect. I know the course to take once failing, I was more concerned that my Squats are progressing very slowly compared to other lifts, and it seems to be the only lift I can't consistently grow. (Which seems to be the opposite of most.) I have done 2 resets with Squats already.

Thought I was finally making progress, hit 5x5x230 (last Monday) before the flu wiped me out and felt great. Now I can barely do a single set of 225 with good depth.

Not sure whether to chalk it up to lingering effects of being ill, but frustrating because I managed to increase all my other 5x5 lifts yesterday.

[Hyperflux]

Jason, I need a bit of advice here. I'm finding it way too hard to deadlift right after squats right now, my hamstrings and glutes just give out. I feel like I deadlift much heavier later in my workout (after press and a bit of rest). Is this out of the question? I squatted 315lbs today for 5x5 with good form, and did a 1 rep max (Squats) at the very end of my workout with 345lbs.

Also, when should one attempt a 1RM during their workouts? At the end of beginning, or during rest days? Thanks.

[UberSuper]

Jason, I need a bit of advice here. I'm finding it way too hard to deadlift right after squats right now, my hamstrings and glutes just give out. I feel like I deadlift much heavier later in my workout (after press and a bit of rest). Is this out of the question? I squatted 315lbs today for 5x5 with good form, and did a 1 rep max (Squats) at the very end of my workout with 345lbs.

Also, when should one attempt a 1RM during their workouts? At the end of beginning, or during rest days? Thanks.

He answered the 1st question in his Q&A this week @ 5:50, not sure about the 2nd question.

[UberSuper]

Okay im finishing this program in May

Only problems that im facing with this is i can't recover well enough on squats 3x a week.

Can say huge gains in chest, legs and back.

Not currently being able to squat 3x per week doesn't mean you won't also make great gains on your legs. In order to squat more often, just push yourself to get into the 3x a week routine until you're used to it. If you have to reset the squat and work with lower weights early on then don't worry because you'll be working at a higher volume anyway. You'll increase your work capacity for the future and the higher volume will still push you in the short term.

[b47t0n]

Can anybody tell me if this looks right for 1months training

I know it's not great but I do 4 12 hour shifts per week 2days and 2nights which kinda messes my body clock up so I've been doing my best to get in the callories,rest and training

Thank you


1st January
168lbs

Bench 60kg
squat 60kg
deadlift 100kg
row 60kg
standing press 37.5kg



1st February
170lbs

bench 65kg
squat 65kg
deadlift 107.5 kg
row 67.5kg
standing press 40kg

[HM37]

Strength gains are going well, I really enjoy the program and have been doing it for a few weeks now. I'm going away for a week on a family holiday and assuming that there won't be a proper gym there, should I treat it as a deload week (will probably do press ups and chin ups if there is no gym) and start 10-15% lighter on my lifts when I get back?

[Boyali]

Sorry, just a quick question about the '5x5', but are all 5 sets done with the same weight (i.e. the 5 rep max)?

[oCR7]

Does it matter how long you rest in-between each set ?

[oCR7]

Can anybody tell me if this looks right for 1months training

I know it's not great but I do 4 12 hour shifts per week 2days and 2nights which kinda messes my body clock up so I've been doing my best to get in the callories,rest and training

Thank you


1st January
168lbs

Bench 60kg
squat 60kg
deadlift 100kg
row 60kg
standing press 37.5kg



1st February
170lbs

bench 65kg
squat 65kg
deadlift 107.5 kg
row 67.5kg
standing press 40kg

According to the guy, you should be going up each session by 5lbs on each exercise or something

[SDES]

Haven't started this routine yet, not sure how I will handle the volume initially, but I'm excited.

I'm thinking of doing 1-2 days of sprinting (short distance, 2mins+ rest) and/or plyometrics along with this program, mainly for the purpose of training explosiveness/CNS 'training', and whatever cardio/getting-used-to-running benefits on the side. Ideally done on a Saturday (on a M/W/F split), but possibly other rest days too. Does anyone see much benefit to this? Any recovery issues?

[DirtyBulkUmad]

Can somebody clarify what weights you use for your 5x5 sets then? Let's assume its bench, and your 5rm is 80kg, or squat etc it doesn't matter. What weight do you pick for each of the 5 sets? And when do you up the weight considering squats for example are done 3 times a week

[dohste]

Can somebody clarify what weights you use for your 5x5 sets then? Let's assume its bench, and your 5rm is 80kg, or squat etc it doesn't matter. What weight do you pick for each of the 5 sets? And when do you up the weight considering squats for example are done 3 times a week

80 kg - 15% = 80 - 0.15 x 80 = 68 kg

Start with this weight. You use the same weight for all sets and you increase the weight each session in small increments (e.g. 1 or 2 kg)

[DeltaCharlie75]

Sorry, just a quick question about the '5x5', but are all 5 sets done with the same weight (i.e. the 5 rep max)?

You start with 75% of your 1 rep max and all main 5x5 sets are done with this weight. For accessories it's 65% of your 1 rep max.

[douglasmich]

Fark hardest workout , squats are killing me

Squat 102kg 5x5
Bench 77.5kg 5x5
Row 85kg 5x5


What's considered a good row ?

[bigruss504]

Sorry, just a quick question about the '5x5', but are all 5 sets done with the same weight (i.e. the 5 rep max)?

Yes, all 5 sets are working sets. They do not include your warmup sets

[bigruss504]

Does it matter how long you rest in-between each set ?

It doesn't matter because rest is an individual thing, however it was recommended 3-5 min on the 5 rep sets and 1-2 min on the 8 rep sets.

[Broscientist88]

Jason ive been eating 2300 calories a day bulking while doing a 4 day upper/lower /w abs on off days. Started your programme and have found that i havent gained anything this week lol.. im hesitant to up my cals incase my body is just adjusting because that couldnt be right surely?

[Stev05]

Jason ive been eating 2300 calories a day bulking while doing a 4 day upper/lower /w abs on off days. Started your programme and have found that i havent gained anything this week lol.. im hesitant to up my cals incase my body is just adjusting because that couldnt be right surely?

Other people, myself included have found that this routine burns more calories than other routines we've done in the past. I've had to increase my calories since moving from less a volume-intensive routine, so you might be in the same boat. That said, you can stick to the calories you've been doing for another week, and if you haven't seen any weight increase, you'll know your maintenance has changed. However, at 5'9 and 125lbs, it's not going to hurt you to up your calories now.