My Novice 5x5 For Bodybuilders.

[Lisciu]

I just want to make sure that I understand everything correctly. For each work day for example in exercise like squat bench and others, i do my work sets with the same weight? For example if i do in monday squat with 150lbs 5x5 then i do in next training day 160lbs 5x5 ? Not only the last series ? I always do with the same weight and change it according to my possibility on the next training day (of course i don't push up myself to the limit and do it with small steps)

[stuntmanhy]

So I've been on this program for 4 and a half months and I've seen great strength and size gains. However over the next couple months I'm not sure I'm gonna have time to be doing a routine like this (some days I can spend around 3 hours in the gym including warm up, showering etc).

I was wondering if just sticking to compounds and stripping out accessory work on days where I'm short on time would be a big deal. I guess I would essentially be doing SS or SL (forget which is which). Any thoughts on why this could be a bad idea? Would progression stay the same? Would I be better off switching routines?

[Nosepull]

So I've been on this program for 4 and a half months and I've seen great strength and size gains. However over the next couple months I'm not sure I'm gonna have time to be doing a routine like this (some days I can spend around 3 hours in the gym including warm up, showering etc).

I was wondering if just sticking to compounds and stripping out accessory work on days where I'm short on time would be a big deal. I guess I would essentially be doing SS or SL (forget which is which). Any thoughts on why this could be a bad idea? Would progression stay the same? Would I be better off switching routines?

If your goal is mostly strength that should be fine - you can pick up the accessory lifts where you left them when you have more time, and you'll probably find you need to increase weight on them.

[nattyiceking]

Anyone have a excel spreadsheet for this routine?

There's a link in my sig for the one I made, PDF style.

[Litres]

I know for a fact that there are some people who blame their lack of calf muscle on genetics without ever really having trained them. That's why, I think, at the end of the workout, you should throw some direct calf work in there. It sure as hell isn't going to get in the way of deadlifts or squats or progression on any of the other exercises so what's the problem?



WTF?!? Are you taking a nap half-way through or something? LoLlol. 3 hours seems like a ridiculously long time.

However long it takes, I guess.

Not if you want to break PRs everytime you step into the gym. I follow Jeff Albert's, Eric Helm's and Jason's advice on rest times, which is there is no set rest time. You rest until you feel you're capable of completing the next set. You go when you're not out of breath, when you no longer feel the burn from the lactic acid.

[stuntmanhy]

If your goal is mostly strength that should be fine - you can pick up the accessory lifts where you left them when you have more time, and you'll probably find you need to increase weight on them.

Thanks mate I think ill do that then and just squeeze in accessory work whenever I have time. Should be able to fit crunches in most of the time as well they don't take me long at all

[KarelAkker]

Hi guys my gym doesn't have a squat rack so I've been squatting out of an OHP rack for a while but it is getting too dangerous with the weights I'm at right now, it is also starting to hurt my shoulder because I have to use my arms to lift up the weight. Can't I do front squats on A days and heavy lunges on B days and get the same results? I really wan't to squat but there is not a single gym in my area with a squat rack so I have no other option. I know jason said that you have to back squat but I have no other options

[tohno]

i've sticking to this routine for a month now and i made great progress , but last week i was down with fever and missed the gym twice ..i went there at the end of the week ( using the weight i used before i got sick ) and i wasn't able to finish my routine , should i reduce the weight following my next session? i should have increased them last week but i fell ill ....

[tazui1982]

Hi guys my gym doesn't have a squat rack so I've been squatting out of an OHP rack for a while but it is getting too dangerous with the weights I'm at right now, it is also starting to hurt my shoulder because I have to use my arms to lift up the weight. Can't I do front squats on A days and heavy lunges on B days and get the same results? I really wan't to squat but there is not a single gym in my area with a squat rack so I have no other option. I know jason said that you have to back squat but I have no other options

Can you safely unrack the bar for front squats? If I'm not mistaken OHP racks are like squat racks but with the seat attach to it right? Anyway, if you can't safely unrack the bar for back or front squat than I'd say don't bother with back or front squats, just do heavy DB lunges and Leg press instead of squat. Of course your results will be very different but hey you can't change your house to another city right?

[mikeallen52]

i've sticking to this routine for a month now and i made great progress , but last week i was down with fever and missed the gym twice ..i went there at the end of the week ( using the weight i used before i got sick ) and i wasn't able to finish my routine , should i reduce the weight following my next session? i should have increased them last week but i fell ill ....

Yes, drop your weights.

[KarelAkker]

Can you safely unrack the bar for front squats? If I'm not mistaken OHP racks are like squat racks but with the seat attach to it right? Anyway, if you can't safely unrack the bar for back or front squat than I'd say don't bother with back or front squats, just do heavy DB lunges and Leg press instead of squat. Of course your results will be very different but hey you can't change your house to another city right?

Yea you're right about the OHP rack. I can safely unrack it for front squats so I guess I'll do those paired with lunges. Should I do the lunges 5x5 or a bit higher in reps?

[tazui1982]

Yea you're right about the OHP rack. I can safely unrack it for front squats so I guess I'll do those paired with lunges. Should I do the lunges 5x5 or a bit higher in reps?

Lunges is an accessory exercise so try 3x8?

[KarelAkker]

Lunges is an accessory exercise so try 3x8?

Ok so my B day would look something like this then?

Deadlift 1x5
Standing Press 5x5
Barbell Row 5x5 -10%
Lunges 3x8
CGBP 3x8
Straight Bar or Incline Curl 3x8
Weighted Crunch 3x10-20

[tazui1982]

Ok so my B day would look something like this then?

Deadlift 1x5
Standing Press 5x5
Barbell Row 5x5 -10%
Lunges 3x8
CGBP 3x8
Straight Bar or Incline Curl 3x8
Weighted Crunch 3x10-20

I would still keep the front squats before Deadlift, because you can't squat as much weight as back squat so you might wanna stick with front squats 3x week.

[KarelAkker]

I would still keep the front squats before Deadlift, because you can't squat as much weight as back squat so you might wanna stick with front squats 3x week.

Ok that'll become a long gym session then. Thanks for helping out

[MrSlippery]

Anyone get bad adductor muscle pain when they reached high numbers in squats (like close to your max). The past 2 weeks I have been having a lot of pain almost feels like both muscles are torn but is not the case (wife is a nurse). Not sure if its just really bad doms or just that they are now the weakest link so to speak.

I completed my last squat session at 230lbs but I am considering dropping down the weight because it seems like my adductors are showing to be a major weakness. It is also negatively effecting the rest of my workout, after squats I am toast because those muscles are just burning. Edit...also just to note this was never an issue until I reached around 215 lbs.

Anyone have any suggestions??

I already foam roll daily as well have been adding in some my dynamic stretches to target those areas but no difference.

[question4u92]

So I've been on the program for 6 weeks, should I change it up?

Or should I follow it until I hit 4/3/2?

I feel as though if I wait until I hit 4/3/2, I'll have SEVERAL more weeks of training on the same program. But wont I begin to see less & less progress?

I know this is probably another FAQ...

What should I do?

(Oh and my lifts are under my sig, but I'm in the process of resetting my deadlift & squat.)

[mikeallen52]

So I've been on the program for 6 weeks, should I change it up?

Or should I follow it until I hit 4/3/2?

I feel as though if I wait until I hit 4/3/2, I'll have SEVERAL more weeks of training on the same program. But wont I begin to see less & less progress?

I know this is probably another FAQ...

What should I do?

(Oh and my lifts are under my sig, but I'm in the process of resetting my deadlift & squat.)

Stick to this program as long as you're making progress. The 2/3/4 numbers are numbers that Jason said you can reach on this program. No, you won't begin to see less progress from being on the same routine. Your muscles don't tell your brain "I'm sick of squats, change it up," Stick with this program as long as you're making progress.

[question4u92]

Stick to this program as long as you're making progress. The 2/3/4 numbers are numbers that Jason said you can reach on this program. No, you won't begin to see less progress from being on the same routine. Your muscles don't tell your brain "I'm sick of squats, change it up," Stick with this program as long as you're making progress.

Alright. I've read up on deloading, and weight resetting, but I feel like I have to do it way more than I should.

In the 6-7 weeks I've followed the program I've...

Stalled Squat 5x, but only had to deload once. Weight has increased 63.5lbs.

Stalled Bench 4x, had deload once, but I had really hard trouble getting past 171.5. Weight has increased 22lbs.

Stalled Deadlift 2x, and only deloaded once, but it's taken me a while to rebuild it. Weight has increased 18lbs.

Are those numbers alright? I feel like sometimes this program DOES have a lot of volume. Which I suppose is slightly preferred for bodybuilding, but shouldn't we lower our sets at some point to receive strength gains? God knows how many times I wouldn't of had to stalled or deloaded if I had less sets.

[mikeallen52]

Alright. I've read up on deloading, and weight resetting, but I feel like I have to do it way more than I should.

In the 6-7 weeks I've followed the program I've...

Stalled Squat 5x, but only had to deload once.

Stalled Bench 4x, had deload once, but I had really hard trouble getting past 171.5.

Stalled Deadlift 2x, and only deloaded once, but it's taken me a while to rebuild it.

Are those numbers alright? I feel like sometimes this program DOES have a lot of volume. Which I suppose is slightly preferred for bodybuilding, but shouldn't we lower our sets at some point to receive strength gains? God knows how many times I wouldn't of had to stalled or deloaded if I had less sets.

I think you're confusing the terms "deloading" and "resetting". Resetting is when you fail a lift for 2-3 workouts at a certain weight, then you take 10-20% off that weight. (I.E., You fail @ 200lbs, take off 10% = new working weight of 180, and build back up). Read this about de-loading ---> http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121391461

Alright in comparison to what? Are you stronger today than yesterday? Become a stronger version of yourself every time you step in the gym. This program does have a lot of volume, no doubt about that. What is your main goal? If you feel like you're failing because you're still fatigued from your last set, maybe you should take longer rest. Rest as long as you need to. For some, it's 2-3 mins, for others it's longer. It all depends on your CNS.

[question4u92]

I think you're confusing the terms "deloading" and "resetting". Resetting is when you fail a lift for 2-3 workouts at a certain weight, then you take 10-20% off that weight. (I.E., You fail @ 200lbs, take off 10% = new working weight of 180, and build back up). Read this about de-loading ---> http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121391461

Alright in comparison to what? Are you stronger today than yesterday? Become a stronger version of yourself every time you step in the gym. This program does have a lot of volume, no doubt about that. What is your main goal? If you feel like you're failing because you're still fatigued from your last set, maybe you should take longer rest. Rest as long as you need to. For some, it's 2-3 mins, for others it's longer. It all depends on your CNS.

I follow you man, I meant resetting.

In comparison to anyone making gains, I mean has my strength increased enough within those 6-7 weeks of training?

I'm trying to hit strength & hypertrophy, but I mean that goes for just about everyone... I've addressed the fatigue several times, and I've been trying to give myself more rest, usually around 4-6 minutes.

[BigVic92]

I just want to make sure that I understand everything correctly. For each work day for example in exercise like squat bench and others, i do my work sets with the same weight? For example if i do in monday squat with 150lbs 5x5 then i do in next training day 160lbs 5x5 ? Not only the last series ? I always do with the same weight and change it according to my possibility on the next training day (of course i don't push up myself to the limit and do it with small steps)

If you hit 150 on your first workout, then your next workout would be 155. 5 pounds added to the next workout for every successfully completed exercise.

[mikeallen52]

I follow you man, I meant resetting.

In comparison to anyone making gains, I mean has my strength increased enough within those 6-7 weeks of training?

I'm trying to hit strength & hypertrophy, but I mean that goes for just about everyone... I've addressed the fatigue several times, and I've been trying to give myself more rest, usually around 4-6 minutes.

Everyone's gains are different. Compare yourself to yourself, like I said. Get stronger everyday. If you have, then that's the goal.

Is 4-6 minutes enough? If not, take more. There is no number on it.

[question4u92]

Everyone's gains are different. Compare yourself to yourself, like I said. Get stronger everyday. If you have, then that's the goal.

Is 4-6 minutes enough? If not, take more. There is no number on it.

One more thing, how much longer do you think I should follow the program? Until I hit the 4/3/2? Or just a couple more weeks?

[seanfl02]

Anyone get bad adductor muscle pain when they reached high numbers in squats (like close to your max). The past 2 weeks I have been having a lot of pain almost feels like both muscles are torn but is not the case (wife is a nurse). Not sure if its just really bad doms or just that they are now the weakest link so to speak.

I completed my last squat session at 230lbs but I am considering dropping down the weight because it seems like my adductors are showing to be a major weakness. It is also negatively effecting the rest of my workout, after squats I am toast because those muscles are just burning. Edit...also just to note this was never an issue until I reached around 215 lbs.

Anyone have any suggestions??

I already foam roll daily as well have been adding in some my dynamic stretches to target those areas but no difference.

Do your knees cave in at all since you have hit 215? This could cause adductor pain too.

So I've been on the program for 6 weeks, should I change it up?

Or should I follow it until I hit 4/3/2?

I feel as though if I wait until I hit 4/3/2, I'll have SEVERAL more weeks of training on the same program. But wont I begin to see less & less progress?

I know this is probably another FAQ...

What should I do?

(Oh and my lifts are under my sig, but I'm in the process of resetting my deadlift & squat.)

I see your lifts, but they are not 5x5. They are in weird reps. You have plenty of room for gains. Milk this program for all you can. What kind of program do you want to move to next?

[MrSlippery]

Do your knees cave in at all since you have hit 215? This could cause adductor pain too.

Not at all, that was the first thing I thought as well, I recorded my last 2 sessions and knees stay rock solid. Either way thinking a reset makes the most sense as I would rather not cause an injury as a result. Am hoping they are just the weak link right now so if I drop back down 15% hopefully that helps solve the issue while I work the weight back up.

[mikeallen52]

One more thing, how much longer do you think I should follow the program? Until I hit the 4/3/2? Or just a couple more weeks?

Run it until you keep stalling at the same point. I'm not talking about you stall once on all lifts then change it up. When you think you're truly stalled, check these factors first: Is your nutrition on point? (Hitting macros, etc). Have you been sleeping enough? (8+ hours daily). Are you drinking enough water? Stress?

These are just a few factors that can affect your gains. If you can answer all those questions honestly and have no negative factors affecting performance, then move on.

[seanfl02]

Not at all, that was the first thing I thought as well, I recorded my last 2 sessions and knees stay rock solid. Either way thinking a reset makes the most sense as I would rather not cause an injury as a result. Am hoping they are just the weak link right now so if I drop back down 15% hopefully that helps solve the issue while I work the weight back up.

Not a bad idea. Better safe then sorry and you will be back at 230 in no time unless you're cutting.

[MrSlippery]

Not a bad idea. Better safe then sorry and you will be back at 230 in no time unless you're cutting.

That is the way I am looking at it as well, I reset back when I hit 205 because at that time I was getting some knee caving and was not happy with form overall. I blasted past that up to 230 currently. So honestly if I reset and do the same I will be more than satisfied.

Thanks for the advice glad I am thinking the same way.

And nope not cutting am eating everything in sight.

[nattyiceking]

Anyone get bad adductor muscle pain when they reached high numbers in squats (like close to your max). The past 2 weeks I have been having a lot of pain almost feels like both muscles are torn but is not the case (wife is a nurse). Not sure if its just really bad doms or just that they are now the weakest link so to speak.

I completed my last squat session at 230lbs but I am considering dropping down the weight because it seems like my adductors are showing to be a major weakness. It is also negatively effecting the rest of my workout, after squats I am toast because those muscles are just burning. Edit...also just to note this was never an issue until I reached around 215 lbs.

Anyone have any suggestions??

I already foam roll daily as well have been adding in some my dynamic stretches to target those areas but no difference.

I went through the same thing a couple workouts ago. My issue was bad form, I was hyperextending my back and not leaning forward enough. Try to really focus on keeping your back straight and your core tight. Lean forward slightly this helps keep the bar on its vertical path. If you want, check out my workout journal, you'll see where I ran into the same problem and how I corrected it.