My Novice 5x5 For Bodybuilders.

[Saucen]

I hate skipping so many days ;(

[liverbird20]

Did starting strength for a while, now in my 4th week of the first cycle of Allpro's routine. But I think I want to switch to this now, as strength gains are more important to me and it looks like they will come faster with this. After this cycle I think that's what I will do. Any suggestions, or should I quit jumping around and stick out a few more cycles of Allpro's first.

[666pluto]

I need some advice on the skullcrusher exercise. I'm embarrassed to say, it appears my max weight is the bar itself (10Kg). adding extra 2.5Kg is doable, but it's very heavy!
I watched Jason's video on it, pretty sure my form it correct.
how should i advance with this one? adding weight from workout to the next seems impossible, so is it OK if i progress on this one specifically very slowly?

if it matters, numbers (didn't count the bar, which is 10Kg):
Squat  20Kg
Bench Press 15Kg
Barbell Row 15Kg
Barbell Shrug 15Kg
Skullcrusher  2.5Kg (struglling much)
Striaght Bar curl 5Kg
good mornings 5Kg
standing calf raise 7.5Kg
weighted crunches 10Kg

[Grailer]

I need some advice on the skullcrusher exercise. I'm embarrassed to say, it appears my max weight is the bar itself (10Kg). adding extra 2.5Kg is doable, but it's very heavy!
I watched Jason's video on it, pretty sure my form it correct.
how should i advance with this one? adding weight from workout to the next seems impossible, so is it OK if i progress on this one specifically very slowly?

if it matters, numbers (didn't count the bar, which is 10Kg):
Squat  20Kg
Bench Press 15Kg
Barbell Row 15Kg
Barbell Shrug 15Kg
Skullcrusher  2.5Kg (struglling much)
Striaght Bar curl 5Kg
good mornings 5Kg
standing calf raise 7.5Kg
weighted crunches 10Kg

skullcrushers work triceps , your bench press and standing press will also work triceps so I wouldnt worry too much about skullcrushers . The 5 main lifts are Squats , Deadlift , Bench , Rows , OverhandPress

[brucedelaney]

I need some advice on the skullcrusher exercise. I'm embarrassed to say, it appears my max weight is the bar itself (10Kg). adding extra 2.5Kg is doable, but it's very heavy!
I watched Jason's video on it, pretty sure my form it correct.
how should i advance with this one? adding weight from workout to the next seems impossible, so is it OK if i progress on this one specifically very slowly?

if it matters, numbers (didn't count the bar, which is 10Kg):
Squat  20Kg
Bench Press 15Kg
Barbell Row 15Kg
Barbell Shrug 15Kg
Skullcrusher  2.5Kg (struglling much)
Striaght Bar curl 5Kg
good mornings 5Kg
standing calf raise 7.5Kg
weighted crunches 10Kg

Typically it's not required to add weight to the accessory lifts every workout. As an example I add 2.5 LBS to my Barbell Bicep Curls when I progress. The prescribed set scheme is 3x8 but it usually looks like 7, 6, 6 after I've started with a new weight. So I keep doing the same weight and trying to get to 8 reps of the new weight which usually occurs after three of four sessions at that weight. Once I get 3x8 at the new weight I will do one more session to get 3x8 to be sure it's not a fluke and then the next time I add another 2.5LBS and start the cylcle again. Even though I'm not adding weight, I'm still progressing, because 8 curls means I've lifted more overall weight then when I did 6 curls.

Your core lifts are Squat, Bench, Overhead Press, Rows and Dead Lifts, they are the ones you're aiming to add weight to every single time and the ones you'll reset if you fail to do the prescribed weight twice.

[666pluto]

skullcrushers work triceps , your bench press and standing press will also work triceps so I wouldnt worry too much about skullcrushers . The 5 main lifts are Squats , Deadlift , Bench , Rows , OverhandPress

Typically it's not required to add weight to the accessory lifts every workout. As an example I add 2.5 LBS to my Barbell Bicep Curls when I progress. The prescribed set scheme is 3x8 but it usually looks like 7, 6, 6 after I've started with a new weight. So I keep doing the same weight and trying to get to 8 reps of the new weight which usually occurs after three of four sessions at that weight. Once I get 3x8 at the new weight I will do one more session to get 3x8 to be sure it's not a fluke and then the next time I add another 2.5LBS and start the cylcle again. Even though I'm not adding weight, I'm still progressing, because 8 curls means I've lifted more overall weight then when I did 6 curls.

Your core lifts are Squat, Bench, Overhead Press, Rows and Dead Lifts, they are the ones you're aiming to add weight to every single time and the ones you'll reset if you fail to do the prescribed weight twice.

thank you :-).
though I'm struggling with the Overhead Press as well, but not as much. I'm not sure if i will be able to add weight to it every workout, maybe every 2 or so, but will see how it goes (it stands at 15KG at the moment- 10Kg from it is bar weight).

[GeoTrail]

Here my current 5x5 program. A little long, but works good for me as I only work out three times a week. When I feel up to it, I do some easy cardio on the weekends. Anyways, here's my 5x5 program:

Benchpress
Shoulderpress with curl pole
Rowmachine
Puldown machine
10 minutes on elipsemachine with Hill program
Preachercurl machine
Legpress machine
Legstretch machine
Legcurl machine
Ab-machine
Rotation machine
Backmachine
Sitting dip machine
Shoulderpress machine
Sitting benchpress machine
Upperback machine
Chestmachine
Deadlift
Compressed ropepull
Squat
Benchpress with dumbbells

I do the program in the order written on monday and friday, wednesday I do it in reverse.

[Winfamy]

Here my current 5x5 program. A little long, but works good for me as I only work out three times a week. When I feel up to it, I do some easy cardio on the weekends. Anyways, here's my 5x5 program:

Benchpress
Shoulderpress with curl pole
Rowmachine
Puldown machine
10 minutes on elipsemachine with Hill program
Preachercurl machine
Legpress machine
Legstretch machine
Legcurl machine
Ab-machine
Rotation machine
Backmachine
Sitting dip machine
Shoulderpress machine
Sitting benchpress machine
Upperback machine
Chestmachine
Deadlift
Compressed ropepull
Squat
Benchpress with dumbbells

I do the program in the order written on monday and friday, wednesday I do it in reverse.

???

[ottawatim]

Here my current 5x5 program. A little long, but works good for me as I only work out three times a week. When I feel up to it, I do some easy cardio on the weekends. Anyways, here's my 5x5 program:

Benchpress
Shoulderpress with curl pole
Rowmachine
Puldown machine
10 minutes on elipsemachine with Hill program
Preachercurl machine
Legpress machine
Legstretch machine
Legcurl machine
Ab-machine
Rotation machine
Backmachine
Sitting dip machine
Shoulderpress machine
Sitting benchpress machine
Upperback machine
Chestmachine
Deadlift
Compressed ropepull
Squat
Benchpress with dumbbells

I do the program in the order written on monday and friday, wednesday I do it in reverse.

At the risk of sounding like a jerk, this thread is to discuss THIS 5x5 program not which 5x5 program you have made up. And second, that is a horrible program. Way too much crap and the order is silly. Do yourself a favor and get on a program written by someone who knows what they are doing. It will save you from wasting alot of time.

[7V64]

I know the suggested rest times are 3-5 mins for the main lifts and 1-2 mins for accessories but is it ok to switch between exercises that work different body parts to lessen overall rest times (i.e. a set of curls, a set of cable crunches, another set of curls, etc. with ~30 seconds rest in between each) as long as we don't get out of breath?

[NewOnDaBlock]

I'm going to post this here,

What can I replace deadlifts and bent-over barbell rows for? I really want to do this routine but I have damage to my L5 and L4 disc in my lowerback so it really hurt when I do them but I can still do squats with not pain.

Guys, help me out.

[7V64]

I'm going to post this here,

What can I replace deadlifts and bent-over barbell rows for? I really want to do this routine but I have damage to my L5 and L4 disc in my lowerback so it really hurt when I do them but I can still do squats with not pain.

Guys, help me out.

I don't know about deadlifts, but seated cable rows might be a decent replacement for bent-over barbell rows.

[joshwah]

I know the suggested rest times are 3-5 mins for the main lifts and 1-2 mins for accessories but is it ok to switch between exercises that work different body parts to lessen overall rest times (i.e. a set of curls, a set of cable crunches, another set of curls, etc. with ~30 seconds rest in between each) as long as we don't get out of breath?

I think people are making this program too complicated.

It's simple

3-5 min rest on your compounds to hit the weight and reps

it's down to you on the iso movements you can superset skullcrushers with curls if you want

Stop making it so complicated.

[Grailer]

Here my current 5x5 program. A little long, but works good for me as I only work out three times a week. When I feel up to it, I do some easy cardio on the weekends. Anyways, here's my 5x5 program:

Benchpress
Shoulderpress with curl pole
Rowmachine
Puldown machine
10 minutes on elipsemachine with Hill program
Preachercurl machine
Legpress machine
Legstretch machine
Legcurl machine
Ab-machine
Rotation machine
Backmachine
Sitting dip machine
Shoulderpress machine
Sitting benchpress machine
Upperback machine
Chestmachine
Deadlift
Compressed ropepull
Squat
Benchpress with dumbbells

I do the program in the order written on monday and friday, wednesday I do it in reverse.

you should mix it up , on friday do it in alphabetical order .

[tadyz]

Ok, after 4 weeks i can post some numbers. This is first time in my life i lift weights regularly. First 2 weeks was more to get used to the exercises and to find the right weight for them because 1RM calculators didn't work too well for me.

So. First workout-Last workout kg(lb)
Squat 55-70(110-154)
Deadlift 75-90(165-200)
OHSP 27-30(59-66)
BP 47,5-52(104-114)
CGBP 42,5-55(93-121)
BBCurls 20-27.5(44-60)

I started OHSP with way too much weight, realized it two weeks ago and had to redo it from low weight and increasy by 1kg(2.2lb) per workout. And i'm only struggling with BP, i have no idea why since my CGBP is doing ok. The rest of the lifts are doing great, i love this workout!

btw, day B is my favorite. Because of OHSP and deadlift.

[52Lewis20Reed]

I gotta say, I love this workout program a lot but it's pissing me off how I just can't gain weight on my clean bulk! First month I had 2600 calories a day and manage to lose 2-3 pounds. 2nd month I stayed at the same weight/lost a little (I say this because my weight fluctuates like crazy and I haven't weighed myself at the same day and time yet). Starting today I gotta have 3110 calories a day. Hopefully I can finally see my weight go up instead of losing or keeping the same weight.

[jammin111]

I gotta say, I love this workout program a lot but it's pissing me off how I just can't gain weight on my clean bulk! First month I had 2600 calories a day and manage to lose 2-3 pounds. 2nd month I stayed at the same weight/lost a little (I say this because my weight fluctuates like crazy and I haven't weighed myself at the same day and time yet). Starting today I gotta have 3110 calories a day. Hopefully I can finally see my weight go up instead of losing or keeping the same weight.

I was in the same boat as you in my first month of lifting 5x5, not exactly Jason's routine back then tho. I made visible gains but weight remained the same. I went from 3000 cals to 3600-4000 per day and i am making weight gains now. You could probably bump up your cals even more (depending on your goals).

[52Lewis20Reed]

I was in the same boat as you in my first month of lifting 5x5, not exactly Jason's routine back then tho. I made visible gains but weight remained the same. I went from 3000 cals to 3600-4000 per day and i am making weight gains now. You could probably bump up your cals even more (depending on your goals).

Well I'm on a clean bulk because I'm a skinny fat. To describe my situation, I have a little amount of stomach fat and a good amount of fat on my chest but very little fat on the rest of my body (I'll post a pic). I have made visible gains but no progress on weight (just like you did). I wanna play it safe because I just have a bad feeling my moobs are going to be out of control if I bump up my calories that much.

Here is a pic of me after lifting today



Maybe I'm delusional but I have a weird feeling that I'm getting close to getting abs (something I've never had my whole life). My lats are looking better too! Thank god for myfitnesspal and this great program!

[jammin111]

Well I'm on a clean bulk because I'm a skinny fat. To describe my situation, I have a little amount of stomach fat and a good amount of fat on my chest but very little fat on the rest of my body (I'll post a pic). I have made visible gains but no progress on weight (just like you did). I wanna play it safe because I just have a bad feeling my moobs are going to be out of control if I bump up my calories that much.

Here is a pic of me after lifting today


Maybe I'm delusional but I have a weird feeling that I'm getting close to getting abs (something I've never had my whole life). My lats are looking better too! Thank god for myfitnesspal and this great program!

You dont look like a skinny fat. We have a somewhat similar body structure. I am 6 ft 1 though and a little leaner. Lets see how we progress in the coming months!

[brucedelaney]

thank you :-).
though I'm struggling with the Overhead Press as well, but not as much. I'm not sure if i will be able to add weight to it every workout, maybe every 2 or so, but will see how it goes (it stands at 15KG at the moment- 10Kg from it is bar weight).

Overhead press is the main reason I bought 1.25 LB plates... I have it up to 115LBS now. At 105 started doing 2.5LB increments on the OHP in stead of 5LB, I've also switched to 2.5LB increments on the squat in an attempt to keep my form tight. I may have switched to it too early but it was a judgement call and will likely be doing so in the Bench Press very soon. I also use these increments on all of my accessory lifts.

[52Lewis20Reed]

You dont look like a skinny fat. We have a somewhat similar body structure. I am 6 ft 1 though and a little leaner. Lets see how we progress in the coming months!

Well, if you really don't think so you want me to take a side pic to prove that I have some man boobies? lol

Not gonna lie tho, I don't like my body structure at all. My lanky ass arms don't help for getting those thick biceps. Gotta keep working at it tho.

I was kind of debating at not increasing my calories to 3110 but the fact that I failed my 135 bench TWICE makes me think I do need to eat more.

[brucedelaney]

Well I'm on a clean bulk because I'm a skinny fat. To describe my situation, I have a little amount of stomach fat and a good amount of fat on my chest but very little fat on the rest of my body (I'll post a pic). I have made visible gains but no progress on weight (just like you did). I wanna play it safe because I just have a bad feeling my moobs are going to be out of control if I bump up my calories that much.

Here is a pic of me after lifting today



Maybe I'm delusional but I have a weird feeling that I'm getting close to getting abs (something I've never had my whole life). My lats are looking better too! Thank god for myfitnesspal and this great program!

MFP is great for tracking nutrients and calories as long as you set your macros yourself and don't go by what they recommend. I think with the right amount of calories you'll get some pretty good results from this program. As for the looking like abs are about to break through... I'd have to say you don't look too far off from that... Much better then my great big ONE pack Ab... LOL

[lrd3]

I gotta say, I love this workout program a lot but it's pissing me off how I just can't gain weight on my clean bulk! First month I had 2600 calories a day and manage to lose 2-3 pounds. 2nd month I stayed at the same weight/lost a little (I say this because my weight fluctuates like crazy and I haven't weighed myself at the same day and time yet). Starting today I gotta have 3110 calories a day. Hopefully I can finally see my weight go up instead of losing or keeping the same weight.

if your weighing in every week ( you should be) then you will know how to adjust.... if you loose weight +200 cals a day when you find you haven't gained or lost any add your comfortable surplus. MFP is great but like Bruce said though don't count on them for macro counting. just because they say your over or under doesn't mean you are... its really best to use that as a counting tool...

[52Lewis20Reed]

MFP is great for tracking nutrients and calories as long as you set your macros yourself and don't go by what they recommend. I think with the right amount of calories you'll get some pretty good results from this program. As for the looking like abs are about to break through... I'd have to say you don't look too far off from that... Much better then my great big ONE pack Ab... LOL

Haha, MFP is absolute s*** when it comes to macro recommendations. For my protein I try to get at least 1 gram per LBM and for fats I try to get at least .5 grams per LBM. I fill the rest of calories with carbs and try to not go over my protein and fat minimums as much as I can. I'm following a lot of Jason's advice when it comes to counting macros.

The bro side of me tells me to get a 1:1-2:1 ratio of potassium to sodium ratio as of recently. Pretty hard to reach that but I guess it's important to avoid "dirty" foods and have as much bro foods as possible. I don't even know how much that actually matters but I want to do everything to make optimal gains nawm sayin?

In light of our discussion about whats good and bad about MFP, what's the "optimal" consumption of micronutrients? I've had different people say it's 100% and some say it's over 100%. It's something I'm really curious about because just about all multi vitamins have over 100% for two or three micronutrients. The one I'm looking into (Orange Triad) has 200% Vitamin A and 833% Vitamin C. If I consume Orange Triad is it logical to still hit 100% with foods themselves?

[NewOnDaBlock]

Can anyone tell me does it matter if you use a underhand or over head grip on the barbell rows? Also I have damage to my L4 and L5 disc in my lowerback, this makes doing deadlifts very painful... Can I ditch the deadlifts altogether or should I replace it with something else?

[7V64]

Can anyone tell me does it matter if you use a underhand or over head grip on the barbell rows? Also I have damage to my L4 and L5 disc in my lowerback, this makes doing deadlifts very painful... Can I ditch the deadlifts altogether or should I replace it with something else?

I asked the same thing about the barbell row grip earlier in this thread and was told to go with overhand

[brucedelaney]

Haha, MFP is absolute s*** when it comes to macro recommendations. For my protein I try to get at least 1 gram per LBM and for fats I try to get at least .5 grams per LBM. I fill the rest of calories with carbs and try to not go over my protein and fat minimums as much as I can. I'm following a lot of Jason's advice when it comes to counting macros.

The bro side of me tells me to get a 1:1-2:1 ratio of potassium to sodium ratio as of recently. Pretty hard to reach that but I guess it's important to avoid "dirty" foods and have as much bro foods as possible. I don't even know how much that actually matters but I want to do everything to make optimal gains nawm sayin?

In light of our discussion about whats good and bad about MFP, what's the "optimal" consumption of micronutrients? I've had different people say it's 100% and some say it's over 100%. It's something I'm really curious about because just about all multi vitamins have over 100% for two or three micronutrients. The one I'm looking into (Orange Triad) has 200% Vitamin A and 833% Vitamin C. If I consume Orange Triad is it logical to still hit 100% with foods themselves?

You can easily customize your macro goals with MFP so I do like that part about it. I honestly don't look at any of my micros anymore. The only thing I worry about is Protein, Fat, Carbs (mostly protien) and I do watch my sodium intake but try to offset it with potassium (i don't micro manage it but try to get as much potassium through the day as I can) and I try to get a good amount of fiber daily too. Not to offset carbs, just to get it.

I used to be very OCD about each and every aspect of my food diary. Now I just use it as a gauge to make sure I'm not totally screwing up. I've technically been cutting for a long time. I can't wait for the day that I get to bulk again.

[BuffMaltese]

Overhead press is the main reason I bought 1.25 LB plates... I have it up to 115LBS now. At 105 started doing 2.5LB increments on the OHP in stead of 5LB, I've also switched to 2.5LB increments on the squat in an attempt to keep my form tight. I may have switched to it too early but it was a judgement call and will likely be doing so in the Bench Press very soon. I also use these increments on all of my accessory lifts.

You have a lot of good advice. I'm going to probably switch to your method of dealing with some of the accessory exercises (increase the weight and if i do 6 or 7 reps so be it). I feel the same way about it being more important to be strict with the MAIN exercises.

I like having options because sometimes the gym is full ( so I want to use dumbbells, or pre-weighted barbells)
For example I feel stuck at 75lbs for curls. so the options are...
1) micro load barbell curl to 77.5 lbs
2) go to 80 lbs (dumbbell or barbell now) do 5-8 reps

If option 2 stick to that weight until you can do the full 3x8

Or I can go do some creative shopping and get some different micro weights that will work on different gym equipment (trip to home depot maybe (chains, washers, magnets...idk) and follow the initial instructions.

I'm pretty sure I'm also going to need the 1.25 pound weights for OH press after yesterdays workout. Did 105 lbs yesterday and I can tell I'm not going to be able to increase 5 lbs a workout.

[heycisco01]

I've only ever done this while cutting. I started out for a few weeks at full volume then dropped down to the cutting version of program which is 3x5 on the core lifts and 2x8 on the accessory lifts when my body couldn't recover from the full workout.

If you get good nutrition and plenty of sleep each night it's not too bad at all.

How much are you adding to your lifts, if at all, every workout/week when doing this program as a cut? I have been following the program while cutting but have been following the program as prescribed. I'm at the point where I'm starting to feel less energy and all the lifts/workouts becoming very difficult to complete without getting burned quickly. I think i'm going to modify it and use the cutting version. But I digress, how are you adding weight? Are you still noticing size and strength gains?

[brucedelaney]

How much are you adding to your lifts, if at all, every workout/week when doing this program as a cut? I have been following the program while cutting but have been following the program as prescribed. I'm at the point where I'm starting to feel less energy and all the lifts/workouts becoming very difficult to complete without getting burned quickly. I think i'm going to modify it and use the cutting version. But I digress, how are you adding weight? Are you still noticing size and strength gains?

Most lifts I'm only adding 2.5LBS per session some I'm addin 5.... I started out on the full blown program but when I knew I wasn't recovering for the next workout I changed to the cutting version of the program.