My Novice 5x5 For Bodybuilders.

[lrd3]

Are you calorie surplus? I'm planning to start today at roughly maintenance and hope that the routine isn't too much for my weak ass.

im running on a 300 + surplus now. i started this rutien around maintenance and cranked it up from there.
were all weak if we compare ourselves to were we will be if we stick to this sh8T........
GOOD LUCK

[pyaarawala]

How's my shrug ROM? It's 245 lbs, feels heavy (use straps so grip isn't an issue), and I'm trying to bring the weight up as much as I can. Is my ROM too short?

Shrugs 245 lbs:


Also, which do you think is superior? 3x5, long rests, with heavier weights, or 5x5, shorter rest, with lighter weights? I'm asking because on squat/bench the first 3 sets always seem to be easy and doable, but the 4th and 5th is where I really feel like my muscles wanna die, and sometimes I fail on those sets. For example, I did squat 235 lbs and the first 3 sets weren't bad, 4th was tough, and 5th was really hard, and on the last rep I failed, so I couldn't increase the weight for next session. Same with bench. I rest 3 min on 5x5 as prescribed.

[snrygo]

So I have a good feeling I'm going to stall on my squats on my next workout and I am wondering what is the safest way to let go of the bar when using a power rack. Should I squat all the way down and bend forward to drop the bar or should I just push it off my back and let it fall to the safety rails. This has been my greatest fear when doing squats.

what J said, but also, dont take such a defeatist attitude. lifting is honestly at least 50% mental.

[pyaarawala]

My brother and I do your recommendation for skullcrushers, bringing it all the way behind the head. But whenever my bro goes alone w/out me, he always gets bothered by the PTs saying that he's not supposed to do it like that. They say:

1) The grip should be narrower almost like a diamond pushup width, saying it'll work the triceps more.
2) The weight shouldn't be brought back behind the head and all the way back above the chest (like post-bench press lockout). They say you should just bring it down and extend till your arms lock out, and no need to bring it back above the chest.

After we bring it back down behind our head, and then begin to extend our triceps, once our arms lock out and we bring the weight back above our chest, does that mainly work the chest? Because I believe there's an exercise where you lie on a bench and bring a dumbbell behind your head and bring it back above your chest, and this is a chest exercise.

What should I tell these PTs so they understand that this method of skullcrushers is good?

[JasonDB]

My brother and I do your recommendation for skullcrushers, bringing it all the way behind the head. But whenever my bro goes alone w/out me, he always gets bothered by the PTs saying that he's not supposed to do it like that. They say:

1) The grip should be narrower almost like a diamond pushup width, saying it'll work the triceps more.
2) The weight shouldn't be brought back behind the head and all the way back above the chest (like post-bench press lockout). They say you should just bring it down and extend till your arms lock out, and no need to bring it back above the chest.

After we bring it back down behind our head, and then begin to extend our triceps, once our arms lock out and we bring the weight back above our chest, does that mainly work the chest? Because I believe there's an exercise where you lie on a bench and bring a dumbbell behind your head and bring it back above your chest, and this is a chest exercise.

What should I tell these PTs so they understand that this method of skullcrushers is good?

Tell them to watch my video on skullcrushers and contact me on youtube if they would like a basic education in human phisiology which they clearly did not get as part of their PT course. I don't suffer fools of this magnitude when they are actually charging people money for their knowledge on the subject.

[furiousrunt]

Hi Jason, Is there any issue doing behind the back shrugs in place of normal ones?

thanks

[JasonDB]

Hi Jason, Is there any issue doing behind the back shrugs in place of normal ones?

thanks

Yes it is a hassle to get it into position. Why would you bother unless you were substantially stronger in that position?

[furiousrunt]

Yes it is a hassle to get it into position. Why would you bother unless you were substantially stronger in that position?

I have spotter catchers on my squat rack so no hassle getting into position. Also when I was doing bro splits I felt that behind the back worked alot better for me.

But I really don't mind doing normal shrugs instead.

[pyaarawala]

How's my shrug ROM? It's 245 lbs, feels heavy (use straps so grip isn't an issue), and I'm trying to bring the weight up as much as I can. Is my ROM too short?

Shrugs 245 lbs:


Also, which do you think is superior? 3x5, long rests, with heavier weights, or 5x5, shorter rest, with lighter weights? I'm asking because on squat/bench the first 3 sets always seem to be easy and doable, but the 4th and 5th is where I really feel like my muscles wanna die, and sometimes I fail on those sets. For example, I did squat 235 lbs and the first 3 sets weren't bad, 4th was tough, and 5th was really hard, and on the last rep I failed, so I couldn't increase the weight for next session. Same with bench. I rest 3 min on 5x5 as prescribed.

Sorry Jason for the excessive posts, but I believe you missed this one.

[JasonDB]

Sorry Jason for the excessive posts, but I believe you missed this one.

You just asked me a question that I cannot answer without a full and proper context for what you are using the given tool for. Which is better a hammer or a screwdriver? What is better a chainsaw or a jigsaw? In the case of the stated goals of my program the 5x5 is better, however doing much shorter breaks isn't always ideal. I don't use short breaks on my own low rep sets, I just stay at the gym longer to make sure I get everything done.

The shrug ROM is fine.

[tmartin89]

I have been lifting for a little over a year and I'm currently cutting, would this be good for me?

[MortalEngine]

Hi Jason, I finished week 1 of the programme today, and I'm absolutely loving it. I've been training on and off for about 10 years, doing body splits and not paying hardly any attention to diet. This all changed a couple of months ago and I've been following the IIFYM approach to lose fat, and I've finally realised that I need to concentrate on the basics of lifting. I've dropped the weights right back and paid more attention to correct form. Your programme has given me a real sense of progression and achievement over this past week, and I'm looking forward to the following weeks. Cheers.

[Geoff Richards]

Thanks Jason

having just found this post,it is exactly what I need.

I would like to do wide grip pullups,can I add these in to either A or B ?

I don't have access to a pulley system for abs,can you recommend anything else ?

Regards

[fffiasco]

would it be okay to replace shrugs with dumbbell shoulder press?

[michcoth1]

I'm starting this today! I decided some time last week that I would start it today, and am very excited to do so. I've actually read this whole thread, and have only one remaining question.

How heavy can you go on the hyper-extensions? I'm currently using a 45 lb. plate for 15 reps, and it's not very easy since I can't wrap my arms around it. If I can go over 45 lbs. safely on this lift, how do you recommend I do that?

[connor1991]

What time I have wasted the past 6 months doing your average 3 day split, working only one muscle a week. Only on my second week of this routine and my body's aching in places I didn't think I had muscles (in a good way). Thanks Jason for the routine and getting me on the right path, especially Inconjunction with your skinny fat video.

[JasonDB]

I'm starting this today! I decided some time last week that I would start it today, and am very excited to do so. I've actually read this whole thread, and have only one remaining question.

How heavy can you go on the hyper-extensions? I'm currently using a 45 lb. plate for 15 reps, and it's not very easy since I can't wrap my arms around it. If I can go over 45 lbs. safely on this lift, how do you recommend I do that?

If you need to add addtional weight on a hyperextention you might be ready for good mornings however one can do hypers with a bar on their shoulders also.

[furiousrunt]

Yeah my legs and glutes are screaming today from the squats. Hoping it's died down a bit for tomorrows squats!

[MortalEngine]

What time I have wasted the past 6 months doing your average 3 day split, working only one muscle a week. Only on my second week of this routine and my body's aching in places I didn't think I had muscles (in a good way). Thanks Jason for the routine and getting me on the right path, especially Inconjunction with your skinny fat video.

I completely agree. Even though I'm on a cut, after week 1 I seem to be a little bigger (clothes feel tighter). Must be the fact that the programme has us hitting our muscles more often than a typical body split routine.

[Negligence]

Just thought I'd give a quick update on my progress. I started this program at the beginning of October and have noticed solid gains everywhere, especially in chest, shoulders, and biceps. I also increased from 185lb to current 190lb.

This is not my one rep max, just my 5x5 working set (or 3x8 for shrugs/curls etc.)

Squat: from 175 to 215
Deadlift: 275 to 300
Bench Press: 150 to 165 (weak, but still making improvements)
Row 165 to 185
Shrug: 180 to 215
Press: still stuck @ 110
Barbell curl: 80 to 95

[michcoth1]

If you need to add addtional weight on a hyperextention you might be ready for good mornings however one can do hypers with a bar on their shoulders also.

Thanks, I did them last night with a 50 lb. dumbell. I think I'll do the good mornings next time. This is the first time I've ever done a real program (all I've ever done is very low volume bro splits), but I've been lifting for a while. It felt great to actually be exhausted and challenged in the gym. I think I'm going to really enjoy this program. I'll give updated lifts later, or maybe I'll start a thread.

Starting lifts in lbs:
SQ: 225 BP: 175 Row: 150

Hey Jason, you mentioned wanting to subscribe to workout journals for lifters on this program. Don't know if you're still interested in seeing everyone's results, but here's mine:
forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=149618523

[furiousrunt]

Thanks, I did them last night with a 50 lb. dumbell. I think I'll do the good mornings next time. This is the first time I've ever done a real program (all I've ever done is very low volume bro splits), but I've been lifting for a while. It felt great to actually be exhausted and challenged in the gym. I think I'm going to really enjoy this program. I'll give updated lifts later, or maybe I'll start a thread.

Starting lifts in lbs:
SQ: 225 BP: 175 Row: 150

Hey Jason, you mentioned wanting to subscribe to workout journals for lifters on this program. Don't know if you're still interested in seeing everyone's results, but here's mine:
forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=149618523

Good luck. I'll keep an eye on your log.

[JasonDB]

Thanks Jason

having just found this post,it is exactly what I need.

I would like to do wide grip pullups,can I add these in to either A or B ?

I don't have access to a pulley system for abs,can you recommend anything else ?

Regards

Do the program as is. If you happen to enjoy pullups you could do some home later after workouts. Minimal addition of bodyweight movements to a program will not hurt it for the most part as long as it isn't excessive.

would it be okay to replace shrugs with dumbbell shoulder press?

Is it ok to replace a hammer with a screwdriver? Two completely different lifts for a completely different purpose. The shrugs are the first thing I would pull out of the program for someone with tighter time constraints or who is struggling with the volume but this program does not need more delt work for a novice so the addition of dumbbell shoulder presses isn't warrented.

[Geoff Richards]

Do the program as is. If you happen to enjoy pullups you could do some home later after workouts. Minimal addition of bodyweight movements to a program will not hurt it for the most part as long as it isn't excessive.

thanks Jason

[JedDaIron]

What to do when I get progressively weaker like set 1: 255x5, 255x4, 255x4, 255x3, 255x2?

[furiousrunt]

Well it's workout B today. But my quads are still really sore from Monday. Like hobbling and having to let the hand rail take some weight going down the stairs kinda sore.

[connor1991]

Well it's workout B today. But my quads are still really sore from Monday. Like hobbling and having to let the hand rail take some weight going down the stairs kinda sore.

Haha same here mate, I'm eating like a horse trying to repair myself. Going to be fun and games in the gym tonight.

[JasonDB]

What to do when I get progressively weaker like set 1: 255x5, 255x4, 255x4, 255x3, 255x2?

You count it as a failure. You failed to get 255 for 5x5 and it also tells me you added too much weight too quickly. The resets will sort the issue out if you follow them exactally as I broke it down in the video.

Well it's workout B today. But my quads are still really sore from Monday. Like hobbling and having to let the hand rail take some weight going down the stairs kinda sore.

Haha same here mate, I'm eating like a horse trying to repair myself. Going to be fun and games in the gym tonight.

You guys might want to invest in a foam roller.

[lifebeckons75]

Jason,

Sort of a tangential question. About nutrition with this program.

Before I started this program, I was on a cut with 2300 kcals. My TDEE was ~2800 kcals. I was on some stupid 5 days a week body part split routine.

I started this program and my bulking phase at around the same time. Taking in 3000 kcals right now. However I am still losing weight.

My question is two-fold:
1. Is it possible that this program has raised my TDEE? Even though I lift only 3 days a week, I tell you this program is intense. And as I am going heavier and heavier, the time it takes me to complete the workout has gone up too. Yesterday it took me 3 hours! I am taking longer rests but making sure I do every single set the right way.

2. Secondly. As I keep adding weight to the bar on every workout, does it also mean that this progressive overload will continually increase my TDEE? For example, I started this program with a 145 lbs squat. Yesterday I did 205 lbs. And when you factor the weight increases on all the other lifts, isn't it true that my caloric expenditure must have gone up as well? To me it seems like since I am lifting heavier progressively, my body is expending more energy progressively. So my TDEE is also going up progressively. (Yes "resets" will have an impact but that is getting into too much complication).

Perhaps I am over-thinking this. But bottom line is I am "clean bulking", but still trying to figure out my TDEE. Clearly 3000 kcals isn't enough for me on such a program.

[JasonDB]

Jason,

Sort of a tangential question. About nutrition with this program.

Before I started this program, I was on a cut with 2300 kcals. My TDEE was ~2800 kcals. I was on some stupid 5 days a week body part split routine.

I started this program and my bulking phase at around the same time. Taking in 3000 kcals right now. However I am still losing weight.

My question is two-fold:
1. Is it possible that this program has raised my TDEE? Even though I lift only 3 days a week, I tell you this program is intense. And as I am going heavier and heavier, the time it takes me to complete the workout has gone up too. Yesterday it took me 3 hours! I am taking longer rests but making sure I do every single set the right way.

2. Secondly. As I keep adding weight to the bar on every workout, does it also mean that this progressive overload will continually increase my TDEE? For example, I started this program with a 145 lbs squat. Yesterday I did 205 lbs. And when you factor the weight increases on all the other lifts, isn't it true that my caloric expenditure must have gone up as well? To me it seems like since I am lifting heavier progressively, my body is expending more energy progressively. So my TDEE is also going up progressively. (Yes "resets" will have an impact but that is getting into too much complication).

Perhaps I am over-thinking this. But bottom line is I am "clean bulking", but still trying to figure out my TDEE. Clearly 3000 kcals isn't enough for me on such a program.

1) A program this intense with compound movements 3x a week can burn more overall calories than a 5 day split, plus all of the large muscle groups have nearly continual, rather than spuratically, elevated MPS so your overall metabolic rate can be slightly higher.

2) Yes as progression continues you will see a very slow gradual increase in TDEE it will not be huge but it will be present both due to the extra workload, muscle gains and aditional calories needed to assist with recovery and repair of muscle tissue.

In general programs like this are going to boost your TDEE. I am cutting right now on 3000-3100 calories I only do 3 very long full body sessions a week with zero cardio.