My Novice 5x5 For Bodybuilders.

[lifebeckons75]

You shouldn't be sad. If I was sad every time I had a session where I couldn't progress I would be extremely depressed these days. LoL You went 4 weeks with continual progress. Do the resets as they are called for and continue making progress.

There is some evidence that going much below parallel on squats puts extra stress on the knee joint. I recommend parallel to slightly below for general development.

Excellent! Thanks Jason! I feel better now . Especially about the squats. I will try to stay parallel or a little below. So I am happy that I did not fail in my squats.

Have to get the technique right on my bench though. Its kind of funny, I never thought there is much technique in bench press. You lie down and press lol. Boy was I wrong. Now I am trying to do all the right things. Retracting the scapula, tucking the elbows, bar touching the chest below the nipples, etc.Will keep reporting my progress here.

Thanks Jason!!

By the way, in your honor, I went to Safeway today and bought a couple of Ben and Jerry's (choc chip cookie dough and a greek froyo)

[kabob190]

Thanks JasonDB, I started this program a week ago. I'm liking it so far. I did my fourth workout on this program tonight.

One thing I have a question about is why there is no direct calf work? Sorry if its been answered somewhere in these 28 pages already. I added 3x12 seated calf raises to this routine just before the ab part of the workout every day because if I workout my calves, they look like I don't work them out and if I don't workout my calves, they look womanish. What do you think?

[JasonDB]

Thanks JasonDB, I started this program a week ago. I'm liking it so far. I did my fourth workout on this program tonight.

One thing I have a question about is why there is no direct calf work? Sorry if its been answered somewhere in these 28 pages already. I added 3x12 seated calf raises to this routine just before the ab part of the workout every day because if I workout my calves, they look like I don't work them out and if I don't workout my calves, they look womanish. What do you think?

I would never prescribe calf work to someone who I cannot watch in person assess their genetics and am being paid to do so. In the first half of this video I break down why:


Work your own calf work in as needed. You might not need to do any to have ripped, vascular 18" calves or you might have to do 10 sets per session to get them up to 16". Calves are the most geneticly biased muscle in the body, so prescribed calf routines are useless.

[furiousrunt]

I'm starting this routine on Monday at calorie maintenance. Looking forwards to getting involved with the discussion in the thread.

[kabob190]

I would never prescribe calf work to someone who I cannot watch in person assess their genetics and am being paid to do so. In the first half of this video I break down why:


Work your own calf work in as needed. You might not need to do any to have ripped, vascular 18" calves or you might have to do 10 sets per session to get them up to 16". Calves are the most geneticly biased muscle in the body, so prescribed calf routines are useless.

That makes sense, thanks. I'm probably going to be killing calves overtime then.

[FruitSupernova]

Jason, thank you in spades for all the work youve put into the routine and my incessant questions ( think I used that word right...)

But um hey, I think my problem with benching was a lack of proper back arch. Scapular movement came from looseness, so Ive tried to focus on tightening the lats and getting a strong push from it. Ill try to film it tomorrow.

But a question about high bar squats is, how wide should my stance be? Shoulder width, toes 15 degrees out? Ive only heard it should be narrower than low bar. Curious for your take.
The squat is at 190 now, started at 115 and going strong

[JasonDB]

Jason, thank you in spades for all the work youve put into the routine and my incessant questions ( think I used that word right...)

But um hey, I think my problem with benching was a lack of proper back arch. Scapular movement came from looseness, so Ive tried to focus on tightening the lats and getting a strong push from it. Ill try to film it tomorrow.

But a question about high bar squats is, how wide should my stance be? Shoulder width, toes 15 degrees out? Ive only heard it should be narrower than low bar. Curious for your take.
The squat is at 190 now, started at 115 and going strong

You are welcome.

Squats are a very individual thing, and everyone's stance and bar position will need to be individualized, however the novice on this program should stick to a pretty basic stance for high bar, Feet shoulder with to slightly wider and toes slightly out, 15 degrees would be fine.

[Ferello]

When you say this program is for the rank novice can you elaborate on that? ive been lifting for about 6 months before starting this on no decent program just basic splits etc would i be ok for it?

[JasonDB]

When you say this program is for the rank novice can you elaborate on that? ive been lifting for about 6 months before starting this on no decent program just basic splits etc would i be ok for it?

I consider a novice to be anyone with less than one year of continual training experience on a decent progressive routine. This routine is fine for you, yes.

[FruitSupernova]

I worked on bench form today

Set 1:



Set 5:



My forearms aren't in line with the wrists, so therefore bad?
I think I need to adjust my grip. I tried to get it closer to the wrist afterwards (still thumb grip) and it worked better, but I'll leave judgement to a smarter man than I.

[BeStron]

Tbh, i think this is way to hard to progress on, why not just stick with SS or something linear for a couple months than go on to something like 5/3/1, thats what i did.

Plus WS4SB is a strength routine that incoporates a great ammount of volume. on seperate days, look it up

but overall i think this 5x5 is greatfor bodybuilding but not much for gaining strength

[anaeem]

Im starting this on Monday. Just wondering, if I want to lose belly fat or a little bit of it, would it be okay to do cardio for 10-15 min on max incline and low speed after every workout? This won't hurt my gains right and I heard that doing max incline with low speed makes you lose belly fat and not muscle. Is this true? Thanks

[snrygo]

tbh, i think this is way to hard to progress on, why not just stick with ss or something linear for a couple months than go on to something like 5/3/1, thats what i did.

Plus ws4sb is a strength routine that incoporates a great ammount of volume. On seperate days, look it up

but overall i think this 5x5 is greatfor bodybuilding but not much for gaining strength

stop being a pussy and harden up a bit

[JasonDB]

I worked on bench form today

Set 1:

[youtube]Ue8fP_2efys&feature=youtube]

Set 5:

[youtube]KIm2pkOe_o0&feature=[youtube]

My forearms aren't in line with the wrists, so therefore bad?
I think I need to adjust my grip. I tried to get it closer to the wrist afterwards (still thumb grip) and it worked better, but I'll leave judgement to a smarter man than I.

Your last set was better than the first set. The only real adjustment I might make is getting set in tighter and get your scapula tighter. Imagine you are pushing yourself away from the bar and pushing your back into the bench rather than pressing the bar up.

Tbh, i think this is way to hard to progress on, why not just stick with SS or something linear for a couple months than go on to something like 5/3/1, thats what i did.

Plus WS4SB is a strength routine that incoporates a great ammount of volume. on seperate days, look it up

but overall i think this 5x5 is greatfor bodybuilding but not much for gaining strength

Well it says "for bodybuilders" in the title. LoL

I lean towards sending prospective powerlifters towards EliteFTS and Louie Simmon's philosophies. This program is for size as a primary objective with strength as an important but secondary concent.

[daniel84uk]

Hi,

Can I ask what people are finding their average gym session time is with this routine?

Currently I am losing weight and am doing GST. However, coming towards the end of the cut I think I would benefit from more frequency as I'm still very much at the beginner stage (never trained more than 3 months consistently previousy - done it a few times over the last 5 years but always stopped. Max lifts are something measly like (in kgs) Deads: 150kg, Bench 82.5kg, Squat 130kg, Row 80kg).

The reason I am waiting until the end of the year (and cut) before switching to more frequency is that, previously, when I have been cutting I have been working out 3xweek full body (starting strength - all pros) and after a month my strength gains slow right down and a few weeks after that my body begins to feel broken down, I don't enjoy my sessions and I've ended up leaving. This time though I feel great, only doing the big lifts once a week might not be optimal but Psychologically I'm finding it great for adherence purposes. I know that this was never a fault of the 3xweek programmes but rather my inadequate rest and calories but c'est la vie.

My plan was that when I finished my cut and moved on to a calorie surplus I would increase frequency to a 4 day upper/lower split but this routine just looks excellent and I think that once I move on to a surplus it'll be something I can handle. I sleep better now than I ever have previously so I think that will help me cope when I switch across and I really want to take full advantage of whatever beginner gains are still available to me.

Sorry for the ramble! I think I'm having a hangover vent.

[hcoyle545]

Hi,

Can I ask what people are finding their average gym session time is with this routine?

Currently I am losing weight and am doing GST. However, coming towards the end of the cut I think I would benefit from more frequency as I'm still very much at the beginner stage (never trained more than 3 months consistently previousy - done it a few times over the last 5 years but always stopped. Max lifts are something measly like (in kgs) Deads: 150kg, Bench 82.5kg, Squat 130kg, Row 80kg).

The reason I am waiting until the end of the year (and cut) before switching to more frequency is that, previously, when I have been cutting I have been working out 3xweek full body (starting strength - all pros) and after a month my strength gains slow right down and a few weeks after that my body begins to feel broken down, I don't enjoy my sessions and I've ended up leaving. This time though I feel great, only doing the big lifts once a week might not be optimal but Psychologically I'm finding it great for adherence purposes. I know that this was never a fault of the 3xweek programmes but rather my inadequate rest and calories but c'est la vie.

My plan was that when I finished my cut and moved on to a calorie surplus I would increase frequency to a 4 day upper/lower split but this routine just looks excellent and I think that once I move on to a surplus it'll be something I can handle. I sleep better now than I ever have previously so I think that will help me cope when I switch across and I really want to take full advantage of whatever beginner gains are still available to me.

Sorry for the ramble! I think I'm having a hangover vent.

My average time in the gym now i'm taking between 3-5minutes on squats and bench/ohp is ~2hours. Maybe 2 1/2 if i'm training with my mate

[furiousrunt]

How many warmup sets are you guys doing?

I'm thinking only 2 for squat and 2 for bench in workout A. And a couple for squat and press for B? I'm unsure about how many to do for deads.

Think I read to just do warmup sets of no more than 5 reps. I may have read that wrong though.

Just wanted to get a general idea really.

[musikguy72]

Can I ask what people are finding their average gym session time is with this routine?

About an hour 15, an hour 20. When the weights were lower and the rests times were shorter I could finish in right at an hour. Now that the weights are all heavy it added another 15 minutes or so. That time will probably go down a bit when squat and bench have to be reset. I'm also doing calf raises on mondays and fridays

[pyaarawala]

Dunno how you guys do it so fast. My sessions take about 2 hours minimum. I do 5 warmup sets on squats/bench/press, 4 warmup sets on deadlifts. Rest 3 min exactly between all 5x5 as prescribed, and 2 min or less on others. Still takes me 2 hours.

[musikguy72]

Dunno how you guys do it so fast. My sessions take about 2 hours minimum. I do 5 warmup sets on squats/bench/press, 4 warmup sets on deadlifts. Rest 3 min exactly between all 5x5 as prescribed, and 2 min or less on others. Still takes me 2 hours.

I do 4 or 5 warmups for squats and then 2 or 3 for my second lift and maybe one or two for my third lift. By the time I get to my third compound lift I'm usually plenty warmed up.
I only rest long enough to get the prescribed reps for the next set. Sometimes that's 3 minutes, sometimes it's only one minute. I usually only need to rest 30 seconds to a minute and a half for the accessory lifts.
You mention resting 'as prescribed'. I believe those are guidelines. With other 5X5 programs I've ran the rest times only need to be long enough to finish your reps. Resting for the sake of resting doesn't seem to be necessary.
So it looks like warm ups and rest times will decide if the routine is a little over an hour versus two hours.

[lrd3]

I do 4 or 5 warmups for squats and then 2 or 3 for my second lift and maybe one or two for my third lift. By the time I get to my third compound lift I'm usually plenty warmed up.
I only rest long enough to get the prescribed reps for the next set. Sometimes that's 3 minutes, sometimes it's only one minute. I usually only need to rest 30 seconds to a minute and a half for the accessory lifts.
You mention resting 'as prescribed'. I believe those are guidelines. With other 5X5 programs I've ran the rest times only need to be long enough to finish your reps. Resting for the sake of resting doesn't seem to be necessary.
So it looks like warm ups and rest times will decide if the routine is a little over an hour versus two hours.

all of this ^^^^^^
reps given.....

[JayB1985]

Hi

Can you change the sets from 5x5 to 3x5 for the main compound lifts like Starting Strength??

[BeStron]

stop being a pussy and harden up a bit

Notsurifsrs?

[Atteroz]

is this for getting big? or lean?

[lrd3]

about 20 lifts into this program and i just recently hit a reset on my squats + bench + row and dead lift.......
one day it was squat a few days latter my bench ....... and so on and so on
i cant believe how long i was actualy able to keep up with the pace of this. sh8T GETS HEAVY FAST HERE!!!!
useing the prescribed reset on squats i was able to bust past my original problem weight. and bench and row looks like will be the same great news.
this is a no B.S routine though.
its heavy..... it ain't over in 30 minutes ....... and it kicks your a$$
and im defenetly diggin it..... thanks jasondb

[JasonDB]

Hi

Can you change the sets from 5x5 to 3x5 for the main compound lifts like Starting Strength??

No. If you reduce the volume in my program and do not complain to me when you don't get as big using it as you expected. This isn't starting strength it is a high volume hypertrophy program and is intended for an entirely different demographic than Starting Strength even though it incorporates some similar, and very popul and widely used, protocols.

is this for getting big? or lean?

The volume is too high for getting lean, last page I linked a Q&A where I explain how to modify this program for cutting. Cutting routines need less volume than bulking routines.

[nickotine18]

So I have a good feeling I'm going to stall on my squats on my next workout and I am wondering what is the safest way to let go of the bar when using a power rack. Should I squat all the way down and bend forward to drop the bar or should I just push it off my back and let it fall to the safety rails. This has been my greatest fear when doing squats.

[furiousrunt]

about 20 lifts into this program and i just recently hit a reset on my squats + bench + row and dead lift.......
one day it was squat a few days latter my bench ....... and so on and so on
i cant believe how long i was actualy able to keep up with the pace of this. sh8T GETS HEAVY FAST HERE!!!!
useing the prescribed reset on squats i was able to bust past my original problem weight. and bench and row looks like will be the same great news.
this is a no B.S routine though.
its heavy..... it ain't over in 30 minutes ....... and it kicks your a$$
and im defenetly diggin it..... thanks jasondb

Are you calorie surplus? I'm planning to start today at roughly maintenance and hope that the routine isn't too much for my weak ass.

[JasonDB]

So I have a good feeling I'm going to stall on my squats on my next workout and I am wondering what is the safest way to let go of the bar when using a power rack. Should I squat all the way down and bend forward to drop the bar or should I just push it off my back and let it fall to the safety rails. This has been my greatest fear when doing squats.

Let it drive you straight down onto the pins. They should be set only a couple inches below parallel ideally. Don't let it bail behind you and try to avoid the forward lean of death... go straight down like a hammer driving a nail into the "lurch of shame" and then crawl out from under the bar. Then look around to see if anyone was staring... if they were pretend like nothing happened.

[ajsat23]

Let it drive you straight down onto the pins. They should be set only a couple inches below parallel ideally. Don't let it bail behind you and try to avoid the forward lean of death... go straight down like a hammer driving a nail into the "lurch of shame" and then crawl out from under the bar. Then look around to see if anyone was staring... if they were pretend like nothing happened.

I would then stand up and shrug the bar a few times to make it look like you set the bar down on purpose!