My Novice 5x5 For Bodybuilders.

[SebastianMorar]

Hey Jason,

Not sure how busy you are, and if you'll read this.

However, I have to say, THANK YOU.

The last 3 months for me have been incredible, I started at 113 pounds in January. Although I could probably due with eating more, this program has been crazy for me.

Squats - 80 Pounds (I **** you not, and my legs were dead the next day, didn't know how I would continue with this program )- 185 as of this Monday, I'm not moving up until my form is perfect.
Benchpress - again, about 80 pounds - 120 now.
Dumbbell Press - I can't remember starting, but I'm at 50 pounds 5x5 easily, working on 55.
Doing weighted dips with 20 pounds.

I'm 130 pounds now, at 4% body fat, which was calculated at my local gym.

This may not sound like alot to you guys, but I'm blown away.

4% bodyfat not even once

[Charlie581]

Hey Jason,

Not sure how busy you are, and if you'll read this.

However, I have to say, THANK YOU.

The last 3 months for me have been incredible, I started at 113 pounds in January. Although I could probably due with eating more, this program has been crazy for me.

Squats - 80 Pounds (I **** you not, and my legs were dead the next day, didn't know how I would continue with this program )- 185 as of this Monday, I'm not moving up until my form is perfect.
Benchpress - again, about 80 pounds - 120 now.
Dumbbell Press - I can't remember starting, but I'm at 50 pounds 5x5 easily, working on 55.
Doing weighted dips with 20 pounds.

I'm 130 pounds now, at 4% body fat, which was calculated at my local gym.

This may not sound like alot to you guys, but I'm blown away.

Great progress man!

Not to criticize harshly though, there's 2 things I can't help but question.

1) You have DB Press for some reason?
2) Ill go with you on having low BF%, but I have to be honest, I highly doubt your as low as 4% though

[phrog801]

Hey Jason,

Not sure how busy you are, and if you'll read this.

However, I have to say, THANK YOU.

The last 3 months for me have been incredible, I started at 113 pounds in January. Although I could probably due with eating more, this program has been crazy for me.

Squats - 80 Pounds (I **** you not, and my legs were dead the next day, didn't know how I would continue with this program )- 185 as of this Monday, I'm not moving up until my form is perfect.
Benchpress - again, about 80 pounds - 120 now.
Dumbbell Press - I can't remember starting, but I'm at 50 pounds 5x5 easily, working on 55.
Doing weighted dips with 20 pounds.

I'm 130 pounds now, at 4% body fat, which was calculated at my local gym.

This may not sound like alot to you guys, but I'm blown away.

4% bodyfat you srs? get picking up a folk and bulking lol and grats on the progress. Your more likely to get a reply on his ********/youtube channel : icecreamfitness

[eirta]

This might have been asked before but I'm growing out of the cable crunch machine.. Does anyone know any suitable alternative?

[phrog801]

This might have been asked before but I'm growing out of the cable crunch machine.. Does anyone know any suitable alternative?

Weighted decline crunches seems to be a popular alternative.

[Charlie581]

This might have been asked before but I'm growing out of the cable crunch machine.. Does anyone know any suitable alternative?

Standing cable crunch. MUCH harder than kneeling IMO. Perform it on a lat pulldown machine facing away from the maching, and with the rope (Like the ones you will see most using for tricep cable pushdowns)

Also it may just be harder for me because my cores kind of weak, so idk for sure lol

[Lvu5ever]

When i first started this routine i was a bit skeptical because of what i thought was a lack of volume on muscle groups as i had previously only did bro splits.

Well after 4 months of doing it i can say its the best workout ive done. My legs and glutes have grown alot. Seeing as ive also been cutting for a month i think thats really impressive.

Ive also doubled my squat and deadlifts since i started and have progressed on all lifts.

Can only reccomend this program. Will post pictures when my cut is done.

If your in doubt, just try it.

[Ampedlift]

When i first started this routine i was a bit skeptical because of what i thought was a lack of volume on muscle groups as i had previously only did bro splits.

Well after 4 months of doing it i can say its the best workout ive done. My legs and glutes have grown alot. Seeing as ive also been cutting for a month i think thats really impressive.

Ive also doubled my squat and deadlifts since i started and have progressed on all lifts.

Can only reccomend this program. Will post pictures when my cut is done.

If your in doubt, just try it.

Lol I like the strength gains I'm getting but honestly I don't want my legs and glutes to be the muscles that grow the most... :\

[Charlie581]

Lol I like the strength gains I'm getting but honestly I don't want my legs and glutes to be the muscles that grow the most... :\

Upper body is worked just as much if not more than lower body. As well, lower body will grow faster that upper in most individuals anyways, assuming you are properly working both sections.

PS: Take it from someone who pretty much ONLY worked his upper body for most of his recent time spent in the gym, you WILL regret not working your lower body.

[Lovell3]

Great progress man!

Not to criticize harshly though, there's 2 things I can't help but question.

1) You have DB Press for some reason?
2) Ill go with you on having low BF%, but I have to be honest, I highly doubt your as low as 4% though

No offence taken
I have dumbbell press there, because ( and probably stupidly ) I like to alternate things a bit every once in a while. I have pretty much stuck to the program, but I just switched it up some days.

as for #2, like I said, I had it read at my local gym. It absolutely could be wrong, and I'm sure it is, however I'm just repeating what the sheet said so; there's that haha.

EDIT:
Thank you everyone for the words of encouragement by the way.

[Charlie581]

No offence taken
I have dumbbell press there, because ( and probably stupidly ) I like to alternate things a bit every once in a while. I have pretty much stuck to the program, but I just switched it up some days.

as for #2, like I said, I had it read at my local gym. It absolutely could be wrong, and I'm sure it is, however I'm just repeating what the sheet said so; there's that haha.

EDIT:
Thank you everyone for the words of encouragement by the way.

Lol Well good job either way man.

Only thing i would say, is to try to stick with barbell OHP, it will generally add more mass/strength to your shoulders (as well as other body groups) than DB will.

As for BF% at 4%...you would look something like this.....


(Alberto Nunez of 3DMJ coaching team. Lifetime natural bodybuilder)

[Lovell3]

[QUOTE=Charlie581;1057751531]Lol Well good job either way man.

Only thing i would say, is to try to stick with barbell OHP, it will generally add more mass/strength to your shoulders (as well as other body groups) than DB will.

As for BF% at 4%...you would look something like this.....

Interesting, well I am pretty lean, but not that lean. LOL

I thought there was probably something wrong with the reading aswell; considering I'm not even sure it's entirely possible to gain 17 pounds in 3 months without some fat, and considering my diet is NOwhere close to clean enough for that kind of look. I'll take your word for it

Thanks for the tips, though! I appreciate the insight.

[Charlie581]

[QUOTE=Lovell3;1057753881]

Lol Well good job either way man.

Only thing i would say, is to try to stick with barbell OHP, it will generally add more mass/strength to your shoulders (as well as other body groups) than DB will.

As for BF% at 4%...you would look something like this.....

Interesting, well I am pretty lean, but not that lean. LOL

I thought there was probably something wrong with the reading aswell; considering I'm not even sure it's entirely possible to gain 17 pounds in 3 months without some fat, and considering my diet is NOwhere close to clean enough for that kind of look. I'll take your word for it

Thanks for the tips, though! I appreciate the insight.

Honestly most ways of finding BF% are rather imprecise. Other than Hydrostatic weighing and DEXA scans (which are impractical and expensive), you get numbers than can be rather off.



IMO eyeballing it comes pretty close to caliper and formula methods. Really though i never like stressing over BF% in the first place. Go until you are satisfied with how you look, and are able to stay at that look without serious stress
(IE if you can answer the question "Can i continue what got me to this state for the next "X Time Frame" without going insane?" with a "Yes")

[EmperorRyker]

For CGBP is it alright if my index finger is right where the rough surface on an Olympic bar starts?

[allnatural999]

Starting date: Feb 15 -------- Current date: April 15
Squat: 165 ------------------ Squat: 235 = +70lbs
Bench: 165 ------------------ Bench: 200 = +35lbs
Deadlift: 195 ------------------ Deadlift: 275 = +80lbs

All 5RM's


^Are just my big 3, OHP is a struggle for me (developing issues with left wrist) But i made this progress in less than 2 months time, including a deload. And don't stress it man, just live and learn.

Always remember, were all gonna make it, brah

Good going, keep it up!
Squat went from 82.5kg -->100kg so far... reset is coming soon but will try best for 5x5
Bench 75kg-->85kg
Deadlift 102.5kg --> 102.5
No weights resets yet
My OHP looks like it will stall the fastest too. I failed my last set of 5x5 on 52.5kg. Luckily I can micro load 0.5kg as my gym is a powerlifting gym and they have good gear . I will try adding the smaller plates to OHP. As you said dont worry will all fall into place.

[allnatural999]

Good going, keep it up!
Squat went from 82.5kg -->100kg so far... reset is coming soon but will try best for 5x5
Bench 75kg-->85kg
Deadlift 102.5kg --> 102.5
No weights resets yet
My OHP looks like it will stall the fastest too. I failed my last set of 5x5 on 52.5kg. Luckily I can micro load 0.5kg as my gym is a powerlifting gym and they have good gear . I will try adding the smaller plates to OHP. As you said dont worry will all fall into place.

Deadlift meant to be 102.5 --> 112.5 lol

[Charlie581]

Good going, keep it up!
Squat went from 82.5kg -->100kg so far... reset is coming soon but will try best for 5x5
Bench 75kg-->85kg
Deadlift 102.5kg --> 102.5
No weights resets yet
My OHP looks like it will stall the fastest too. I failed my last set of 5x5 on 52.5kg. Luckily I can micro load 0.5kg as my gym is a powerlifting gym and they have good gear . I will try adding the smaller plates to OHP. As you said dont worry will all fall into place.

Damn wish i could find a powerlifting gym :/

Can't stand waiting around for the only single power-rack all the time lol

[allnatural999]

Damn wish i could find a powerlifting gym :/

Can't stand waiting around for the only single power-rack all the time lol

Just lucky I have one nearby. The bars are much better quality. They have a bar for deadlifts and your grip on the bar is like twice as tight compared to standard bars at commercial gyms... Well here in the UK anyway!. When you get that power rack you just gota hog it for whole workout! lol

[allnatural999]

For CGBP is it alright if my index finger is right where the rough surface on an Olympic bar starts?

Thats where I hold it. Ends up being shoulder width or slightly wider for me

[EmperorRyker]

Thats where I hold it. Ends up being shoulder width or slightly wider for me

And you can feel it in your triceps that way? I'm asking because I went a tiny bit narrower today, which was also my first time doing the lift, and even though at the end of my set I struggled with the weight a bit, I'm not sure it was the triceps that was giving out. But yeah, index finger on the rough surface is shoulder width or slightly wider for me, as well. I just wasn't sure whether that's considered CGBP then (if it's slightly wider).

[JoshuaPP]

Can anyone link me to a video for form on CGBP? Also do we need to have a curve in the lower back and shoulders retracted like bench press or not? Thanks.

[Charlie581]

Can anyone link me to a video for form on CGBP? Also do we need to have a curve in the lower back and shoulders retracted like bench press or not? Thanks.

Check the FAQ.

And yes.

[JoshuaPP]

Check the FAQ.

And yes.

What FAQ?

[Charlie581]

What FAQ?

FAQ for ICF 5x5 can be found in the original thread "Pg 173 post #5166"

Some things were added but im not sure where those are posted lol The above one is very good though

[JoshuaPP]

FAQ for ICF 5x5 can be found in the original thread "Pg 173 post #5166"

Some things were added but im not sure where those are posted lol The above one is very good though

Wicked its an ace FAQ. I coped it for reference. Thanks again bro.

[razaice]

Squats are kind of a problem for me. I've worked on my form over the last few months and managed to fix a few different problems like hip and groin pain, but now I'm getting a certain kind of pain in my knees. Anyone have any tips or cues to fix knee issues for squats?

[Charlie581]

A quick FAQ to answer all of the questions that are constantly being brought up in regards to this program, as it's starting to get quite annoying. If I leave out anything of importance, feel free to add to it.

1. Watch the video, 99.9% of all of your questions can be answered by actually taking the time to watch the video on page 1. If you can't take the time to do this you are simply not worth the gains the program can offer you.

2. Unless you are UNABLE TO DO SO FOR MEDICAL REASONS ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!! Do not alter the program. You are a novice, and quite simply you don't know what the **** you're doing. If you did you wouldn't be in here. If you want to go changing everything to fit what you believe will give you better results, go post it in the workout programs forum so everyone can tell you to your face you are an idiot and clueless. Then they will refer you to a proven program that works, such as this one.

4. If you have bad knees, do box squats. Otherwise unless you are MEDICALLY UNABLE, you squat 5x5 plus your warmup sets, and you deadlift 1x5 plus your warm up sets. Deadlifts are 1x5 for a reason, because they are taxing on your CNS and if you **** around you will get hurt. So don't be the tough guy who wants to do 5x5 deadlifts, because you will fail miserably. Don't suggest doing 3x8 or whatever, you do the reps and sets as they are laid out in the program. You are not smarter than the creator of this program, you are a novice and are clueless.

5. Don't ask if you can ditch squats or deadlifts because "you don't like them". If you do so, make sure to bring your box of tampons along to the gym with you each workout.

6. Supplemental calf work is acceptable, but you don't need it. If you want to do the extra work, when you don't need it, feel free if it keeps you from bitching.

7. Side lat raises are also acceptable, but Jason suggests doing facepulls instead. Google it if you need to.

8. Additional ab work is acceptable. Doing ab work on off days instead is also acceptable.

9. The CUTTING VERSION is 3x5 for main lifts, 2x8 for accessory lifts. Also you only progress every other session, not every session. Example Workout B: deadlift 200, next workout B: deadlift 200, next workout B: deadlift 205. You still progress with the same amount
oof weight as the normal version.

10. With a good diet you do not need to do cardio, most people here don't even bother as it will not make you magically lose weight. Diet is what affects weight.

11. Until you have read these threads, do not bother anyone with a diet question. Just don't.
Calculating calories and macros: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121703981
If you are skinnyfat: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=148733753
Basic Nutrition Questions and Answers: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=136691851

12. For tracking calories, Myfitnesspal is a pretty solid app. To calculate your TDEE for calorie needs determination: http://iifym.com/calculators/

13. If you fail a rep/set/whatever, you repeat that weight the next workout. If you fail the next workout, you lower your weight by 10% and do that until the next time you would progress. Reset weights get rounded down.

14. You do not need to add any extra accessory work, you are a novice, your entire body is lagging right now. You fix your overall body before moving to intermediate and focusing on certain parts.

15. If you are not progressing and stall for a while, you may need to deload. Read here: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-d...#axzz2O5gcgoog

16. Hyperextension can be substituted with goodmornings or cable pull throughs. CGBP/Dips are a matter of preference, Jason just prefers CGBP.

17. Watch the icecreamfitness videos on youtube.

18. Break times between sets are 3-5 minutes for the 5x5 sets & 1-2 for the 3x8 sets.
This does not change for the cutting version.

19. If you have an injury or a medical question concerning substitutions for any lifts, consult a medical professional. No one in this forum is qualified to hand out medical advice.


Are you novice, intermediate, advanced?:



Beginners Mistakes:






Box Squats:



Benching to build chest:



Row Form:



Curl Mistakes:



Skull Crusher PROPER FORM:



CGBP Vs. Dips:



CGBP Form:



Solid Squat Form:



Foam Rolling:



When you're ready to move to intermediate program:



Benefits of Deloading:



Why you are doing BB shoulder presses instead of DB:




Optimal training frequency (IE fullbody vs bro-split kind of discussion)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8brhySqyDw


Should i train to failure?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPH-irhsum8


DB vs Barbell work in general (Not just shoulder press)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZq7TYW9J04


Why 5x5?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxl4LSx9L6w


Can i use dumbells instead?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZq7TYW9J04


Best volume for hypertrophy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg3bCb48L6Q


Why train for strength?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF4vET-29lc


Why the hypertrophy rep ranges (8-12) are somewhat misleading
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G5Cd3GrJiw


What do i do if i want to train more than "X" days a week?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP9Icu-IMnw


How much cardio/whats the best type?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5K8qh4cIgc


(LISS v HIIT)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gII5EzxdZYo


Should I be sore after a workout?
http://youtu.be/DkMUxuopjK4


Body-part splits = better muscle specialization right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi8ekjknjd4


Aaaaaaand just because i see too many people jumping on PHAT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMUrwFbW8yE

Decided to bump, i think every so often it should be, at least until a new thread starts and it can be put on pg 1
Threw in a few other topics at the bottom that i've stock piled that i believe are worthy of FAQ lol

Again, original credit goes to iBeastMode207 for taking to write the time the original up

[Litres]

Squats are kind of a problem for me. I've worked on my form over the last few months and managed to fix a few different problems like hip and groin pain, but now I'm getting a certain kind of pain in my knees. Anyone have any tips or queues to fix knee issues for squats?

Keep your knees behind your toes when you squat. You can achieve this by setting your hips back, and then sitting back. Box squats are good for this purpose. Stick with box squats for a month, then jump back to barbell back squats and see if you have the same problem.

[razaice]

Keep your knees behind your toes when you squat. You can achieve this by setting your hips back, and then sitting back. Box squats are good for this purpose. Stick with box squats for a month, then jump back to barbell back squats and see if you have the same problem.

Could foot width during squats make a difference as far as knee problems?

[Litres]

Could foot width during squats make a difference as far as knee problems?

I severely doubt it's the width. You have powerlifting pros squatting close foot stance to wide foot stance and they all seem fine.