My Novice 5x5 For Bodybuilders.

[Winfamy]

I'm not sure if it has been answered already but, can you do cardio on off days like say Tuesday and Thursday if you do weights on Monday, Wednesday and Friday?

Yeah, as long as you're sure your cardio isn't affecting your recovery.

[tazui1982]

So by the same logic i shouldnt really be going below parallel on my squats then? I think i have/had the same issue with squats as the guy in the vid i lean forward i bit too much especially on the last few reps when going ATG but thats getting corrected slowly.

I'm not sure what logic you're talking about, but ATG or below parallel is ideal and you work your hams and glutes a lot more.

[aceedkins]

Posted a threa a few hours ago and was referred to this program. I've been doing Strong Lifts for 3.5 months and here are my numbers:
Squat: 32.5kg-->80kg (I switched to 3x5 on the squat about three weeks ago, the rest of my lifts are 5x5 except for the deadlift, of course)
Bench: 30kg-->65kg
DL: 40kg-->105kg
Pendlay Row: 35kg-->55kg
Overhead Press: 20kg-->45kg

Given my goals and where I'm at on my lifts, would this be a good program to hop on now that I'm interested in moving away from strength to hypertrophy? (Not that I don't want to get stronger, of course, but my goals are aesthetic)

[davidross87]

Thats wonderful.

[tazui1982]

Posted a threa a few hours ago and was referred to this program. I've been doing Strong Lifts for 3.5 months and here are my numbers:
Squat: 32.5kg-->80kg (I switched to 3x5 on the squat about three weeks ago, the rest of my lifts are 5x5 except for the deadlift, of course)
Bench: 30kg-->65kg
DL: 40kg-->105kg
Pendlay Row: 35kg-->55kg
Overhead Press: 20kg-->45kg

Given my goals and where I'm at on my lifts, would this be a good program to hop on now that I'm interested in moving away from strength to hypertrophy? (Not that I don't want to get stronger, of course, but my goals are aesthetic)

Yes this program would be good for you to continue after Strong lift.

[Tal106]

Maybe this is a stupid question but I'm finding it really hard to advance on the bench, and it's the one I find the most difficult to keep my form correct (mainly tucking my elbows in)

would it be detrimental to my results to replace it with dumbbell bench press? maybe not permanently but for a while then go back to bench

[tazui1982]

Maybe this is a stupid question but I'm finding it really hard to advance on the bench, and it's the one I find the most difficult to keep my form correct (mainly tucking my elbows in)

would it be detrimental to my results to replace it with dumbbell bench press? maybe not permanently but for a while then go back to bench

No, do not replace bench press with dumbbells. If you stall than reset 10% of the weight and work back to the current weight. If you think the form is the problem, watch video that JasonDB covered in here about bench press. FAQ for ICF 5x5 can be found in the original thread "Pg 173 post #5166"
If you are on a cut, calorie deficit, than you progress every other workout instead.

[Tal106]

No, do not replace bench press with dumbbells. If you stall than reset 10% of the weight and work back to the current weight. If you think the form is the problem, watch video that JasonDB covered in here about bench press. FAQ for ICF 5x5 can be found in the original thread "Pg 173 post #5166"
If you are on a cut, calorie deficit, than you progress every other workout instead.

I have literally done all that and I'm still stalling and in my opinion my form is still lacking.. it sucks

[aceedkins]

Yes this program would be good for you to continue after Strong lift.

Okay, thanks. It seems like it mixes strength with hypertrophy.

[tazui1982]

I have literally done all that and I'm still stalling and in my opinion my form is still lacking.. it sucks

Watch this, I really like watchin' this guy's videos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJX5MKacR6M

[Negligence]

Im not a big fan of the rep ranges, i like 6-8 generally feel better with those but thats not a big issue, its more spending 2+ hours in the gym isnt ideal for my schedule. More days with slightly shorter workouts would be ideal.

I'm seeing this mentioned more and more here, and I inquired myself earlier in the thread but it wasn't really addressed. Would a 3x8 variation of this program be suitable? Same lifts, same program structure, overload 5lb per week (as per the cutting version) instead of 5lb per session? A lot of people, myself included, love the program but the time takes away from it's attractiveness to continue. Hopefully we can get this answered!

[tazui1982]

I'm seeing this mentioned more and more here, and I inquired myself earlier in the thread but it wasn't really addressed. Would a 3x8 variation of this program be suitable? Same lifts, same program structure, overload 5lb per week (as per the cutting version) instead of 5lb per session? A lot of people, myself included, love the program but the time takes away from it's attractiveness to continue. Hopefully we can get this answered!

You could also cut the rest time down to 3 mins for 5x5 and 1 min for accessorys, however once 5x5s get really heavy 5-8 mins might not be sufficient to recover fully. If you really only have say 45-60 mins to workout than you might wanna do Starting Strength instead, only 3 lifts but dun be dissapointed when it gets so boring tho.

[phrog801]

I'm not sure what logic you're talking about, but ATG or below parallel is ideal and you work your hams and glutes a lot more.

I meant that ATG is meant for training power and explosiveness where as if i just went parallel i could probably shift a bit more weight as its alot easier to get out of the hole. @ maltese yeah squats are one of those exercises that people frequently do wrong in the 4-5 months ive been lifting i have seen maybe 2 or 3 people do them to a proper depth.

[tazui1982]

I meant that ATG is meant for training power and explosiveness where as if i just went parallel i could probably shift a bit more weight as its alot easier to get out of the hole. @ maltese yeah squats are one of those exercises that people frequently do wrong in the 4-5 months ive been lifting i have seen maybe 2 or 3 people do them to a proper depth.

I think you mistaken the ATG explosiveness part with experienced lifters bouncing out of the hole when doing ATG squats, it's stretch reflex I think. Watch this video and see the guy delibrately stopped at the bottom to cut out bounce. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDVNM9Yto7E

[MrSlippery]

Well just finished up my 6th week on the program and am absolutely loving it so far, all of my lifts have increased dramatically and have yet to stall on any major lifts. I did have to reset curls but could care less about those numbers if everything else is going up.

Also hit a big milestone I had put for myself this morning, did 200lbs deadlift which is up from 130lbs when I started .

[mdoghman]

Does anyone have a link to a video where Jason talks about proteins?
I know this is the wrong topic for it. I just need some information about it.
As I have noticed slow recovery after workouts and my protein intake is pretty low compared to what I read else where.
I am not hitting more than 120g or max 150g a day

[Charlie581]

Does anyone have a link to a video where Jason talks about proteins?
I know this is the wrong topic for it. I just need some information about it.
As I have noticed slow recovery after workouts and my protein intake is pretty low compared to what I read else where.
I am not hitting more than 120g or max 150g a day

1g per pound of lean body mass

What else is there to question? If you are not hitting enough, 2 scoops of whey should take care of it.

And what exactly do you mean by "I have noticed slow recovery after workouts".....
The amount that you are taking is still quite a bit, i don't see how that would hinder recovery significantly. Are you taking in sufficient carbs and fats? And are you getting enough rest/sleep daily?

[Negligence]

You could also cut the rest time down to 3 mins for 5x5 and 1 min for accessorys, however once 5x5s get really heavy 5-8 mins might not be sufficient to recover fully. If you really only have say 45-60 mins to workout than you might wanna do Starting Strength instead, only 3 lifts but dun be dissapointed when it gets so boring tho.

I already keep my rest times short I think - typically one minute between sets and a little more between different lifts (squats I rest longer). And I am lifting heavy, but I find I can recover fast.

SS would be boring after doing this! I really like the variety of lifts in this program. I've been on the cutting version for the past month or so and I find it much easier time-wise, so I figured bumping the 3x5 up to 3x8 would keep runtime similar but increase overall weight moved / etc.

[Charlie581]

I already keep my rest times short I think - typically one minute between sets and a little more between different lifts (squats I rest longer). And I am lifting heavy, but I find I can recover fast.

SS would be boring after doing this! I really like the variety of lifts in this program. I've been on the cutting version for the past month or so and I find it much easier time-wise, so I figured bumping the 3x5 up to 3x8 would keep runtime similar but increase overall weight moved / etc.

Can you give a legitimate reason as to why this would be "more" beneficial? And btw, chances are you will have to reduce weight to get 8 reps, causing lesser total workload.

[phrog801]

Does anyone have a link to a video where Jason talks about proteins?
I know this is the wrong topic for it. I just need some information about it.
As I have noticed slow recovery after workouts and my protein intake is pretty low compared to what I read else where.
I am not hitting more than 120g or max 150g a day

Cant link the vid but its titled:Amino Acid Profile Protein Quality And Your Gains

@tazui1982 think you may be right, was under the assumption that because you have to use a lot more power to get yourself out of the hole it would be for explosive power.

[Negligence]

Can you give a legitimate reason as to why this would be "more" beneficial? And btw, chances are you will have to reduce weight to get 8 reps, causing lesser total workload.

I meant more beneficial than the 3x5. Obviously with 5x5 a lot more weight is moved so there is no direct comparison. It's all about saving time. I am not foolish enough to pretend to know what I'm talking about, I'm simply asking the question - if time to complete the 5x5 workout is an issue (which it is for some here), would 3x8 be a suitable alternative to 5x5?

[Charlie581]

I meant more beneficial than the 3x5. Obviously with 5x5 a lot more weight is moved so there is no direct comparison. It's all about saving time. I am not foolish enough to pretend to know what I'm talking about, I'm simply asking the question - if time to complete the 5x5 workout is an issue (which it is for some here), would 3x8 be a suitable alternative to 5x5?

IMO, do 3x5 or switch to SL if time is an issue

3 sets of 8 really isn't going to be heavy enough nor be enough to induce sufficient workload to progress at a significant weight in most cases.


PS: I asked to make you think about it and consider WHY or HOW it is more/less beneficial, sorry if it came off as angry :/ lol I like to question the thoguhts behind individuals reasonings to get them to think about the "Why's" behind their intentions. To many people just do things without any thought behind it and just jump into the first thing they see.

[Negligence]

If 3x5 is preferred to 3x8, that's fine for me! That's what I'm currently doing on a deficit and my lifts have been increasing a lot, even hit a PR on bench press.

Edit: I had thought that 3x8 would be more weight thrown around compared to 3x5, and it's widely suggested that 8-12 reps is optimal for size gains. That was my line of thinking.

[Charlie581]

If 3x5 is preferred to 3x8, that's fine for me! That's what I'm currently doing on a deficit and my lifts have been increasing a lot, even hit a PR on bench press.

Edit: I had thought that 3x8 would be more weight thrown around compared to 3x5, and it's widely suggested that 8-12 reps is optimal for size gains. That was my line of thinking.

Hypertrophy Range Theory Basics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G5Cd3GrJiw

Best Volume For Hypertrophy And Similar Questions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg3bCb48L6Q

5x5 training
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxl4LSx9L6w

Muscle Growth Hypertrophy Most Important Factor Short
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE02H6I4Mb4


And just if your curious to benefits of high-rep training, as there are some
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRLnJiB1FVk


^For some basic references about hypertrophy and rep-ranges

[BuffMaltese]

I just asked my own questions about box squats and the answer was novice trainers should only use box squat to learn the form a few weeks to 1 month,than he/she should get back to free weight squatting because at this stage we need to build up strength and forms not working on explosiveness.
I personally think you shouldnt compare your form with other people. Search youtube for Rippetoe's deadlifts he covered setups for deadlifts really well.

I know he said we should go back but I still can't squat properly. If I can't do a proper body weight squat I don't think the half-assed free weight squats are better than the box squats. The box squats are wayyyyy harder and really feel it in the hamstrings, glutes and groin area whereas the regular squats are much more quad dominant.

I've studied Rippetoe's deadlifts....I've watched and read several good sources on proper deadlift and squat form (among the other exercises). It's not that I don't understand how to do it. I literally am not flexible enough to do them properly which isn't a huge deal until the weight gets heavy, then I start to worry about my safety. I was gaining a lot of confidence with my deadlifts and I knew they weren't perfect yet but they were so close to ideal. I should of stuck to weights I could dominate until I was able to get low enough to not have ANY lower back rounding.

[Bruce44]

I like this program but my only problem is recovery time. I find that I cannot squat 3x a week and keep adding 5 lbs once I hi 335lbs. So I either have to do 10% less on wednesdays or skip it altogether because my legs haven't recovered enough from monday's squats and I end up failing. . So far though my endurance for bench press has gone up. Before I was on madcows and was only able to bench press 255lbs for 1x5. Now I can 3x5 260lbs.

[SebastianMorar]

I like this program but my only problem is recovery time. I find that I cannot squat 3x a week and keep adding 5 lbs once I hi 335lbs. So I either have to do 10% less on wednesdays or skip it altogether because my legs haven't recovered enough from monday's squats and I end up failing. . So far though my endurance for bench press has gone up. Before I was on madcows and was only able to bench press 255lbs for 1x5. Now I can 3x5 260lbs.

You surely don't seem to be a beginner.

[Charlie581]

I like this program but my only problem is recovery time. I find that I cannot squat 3x a week and keep adding 5 lbs once I hi 335lbs. So I either have to do 10% less on wednesdays or skip it altogether because my legs haven't recovered enough from monday's squats and I end up failing. . So far though my endurance for bench press has gone up. Before I was on madcows and was only able to bench press 255lbs for 1x5. Now I can 3x5 260lbs.

Great work, but your past this program. Find something more geared towards intermediates.

Jim Wendler
Christian Thibaudeau
Joe Defranco
Bill Starr
many more than ^ all write very good programs.

Jason recommends a few things here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URXp5kIRMvA

Look for something with periodization and undulation. Madcow 5x5 for intermediates get some good reviews if you want to stick with a 5x5 program, but you will need to add your own accessory work.

[Ampedlift]

I'm about 3 weeks in and sadly I've stalled on my bench today . 145 x 5 I could only do 5,4,4,3,4 . If I'm correct I should just try 145 again next time I bench not Deload right away? This sucks lmao can't believe I stalled so early on something. Felt so good bout it today too my squats were easy

[jabringmann]

I'm about 3 weeks in and sadly I've stalled on my bench today . 145 x 5 I could only do 5,4,4,3,4 . If I'm correct I should just try 145 again next time I bench not Deload right away? This sucks lmao can't believe I stalled so early on something. Felt so good bout it today too my squats were easy

yes, if you fail after next time. then you need to deload