That "Jesus never existed" thread is 100% BS. [SRS]

[Aamon]

Dunno why you get so rustled, bunch of young adults on the misc vs the vast majority of historians and theologians...I know who I'd rather rely on.

[edsp]

Psalm 118:8 "It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man."

do you not see how you are DIRECTLY proving my point correct...

the bible is written in a way that it is impossible to disprove OR prove!! despite no fact being present!

[Acesopro]

Guys if Jesus existed then Thor, Zeus, Allah, Flying Spaghetti Monster, and all the great deities in human history existed. I have no proof, my book tells me it is true. This statement cannot be disproven as absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Thank you and Thor, Zeus, Allah, Flying Spaghetti Monster, etc. bless you.

[edsp]

i'm not saying that i'm smarter then Sir Isaac Newton in anyway shape or form, but i'm just saying, the Bible says that unless someone is born-again and has the Holy Spirit guiding them, they will NEVER be able to understand the Bible, no matter how much you read or how smart you are.

again! this part is essentially saying "unless you believe the bible you cannot understand the bible" it makes no sense! and dont say, it only doesnt make sense because i dont have the lord in me

[DepressedBrahh]

Have you ever seen Jesus Christ with your own eyes? Were you there when he spoke the words of the bible? If you cannot confirm these 2 things with your own experience then all you are doing is following theoretical dogma by blind faith. It amazes me how people can base their entire life and beliefs on something that they cannot experience their own selves. I used to be a christian by birth and followed it until the inevitable truth dawned on me. You cannot answer the true questions in life by blindly believing what other people have written and translated over and over again. For one, there's bound to be manipulation and corruption of the original texts, and spiritual interpretations differ greatly
Have you heard of the gnostic gospels that were supposedly part of the holy scriptures? did you know why they were refused to be entered in the canonical bible?

If you want to follow a religion, follow one that gives you experiential faith. Something you can verify with your own two eyes and mind, not something that tells you to worship some wrathful sky daddy just because it says so.

John 20:29 "Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."


2 Corinthians 5:7 "(For we walk by faith, not by sight: )"


no, I havent seen my saviors face yet, but someday I will.

[cliffsmcgee]

All belief systems are the stories man creates to deal with the void. Everyone scrambling to create an illusion where there is nothing. Beliefs are the devices we use to explain away the unthinkable horror of no self. Beliefs are candles that man uses to ward off the surrounding darkness. They are the charms we use to hold infinity at bay, to dispel the black cloud that hovers over every head. What is going on here? Who am I? Whats the point? What lies beyond? Those are big questions and all the religions and spiritual traditions represent our attempts to answer them. Obviously we can’t answer correctly, but that’s okay because we don’t have to, we just have to answer adequately.

We don’t have to make the black cloud disappear, we just have to make it seem dark grey instead of black. Our explanations can be 99% percent unsatisfying and that’s good enough because we don’t need the black cloud gone, we just need it taken down a notch.

Ever been depressed? like really depressed? Like nothing means anything? Like there’s no point to anything? And what’s the worst thing about those dark moments? Where do they get their power? They get it from their undeniability, isn’t that right? From the fact that there’s no argument? When you’re in that state, don’t you know perfectly well that it’s true? When you’re in that space, you know it’s not just a mood. You’re seeing something you don’t normally allow yourself to see. Your moments of blackest despair are really your most honest moments, your most lucid moments. That’s when you’re seeing without your protective lenses. That’s when you pull back the curtain and see things as they are.


Awakening is about discovering what’s true. Anything that’s not about getting to the truth must be discarded. Truth isn’t about knowing things we already know too much. It’s about unknowing. It’s not about becoming true, it’s about unbecoming false so that all that’s left is truth. If you want to become a priest or a lama or a rabbi or a theologian, then there’s a lot to learn. But if you want to figure out what’s true, then it’s a whole different process and the last thing you need is more knowledge.

Seeing the 'truth', the unknowing.. it's horrible. Feeling and thinking like nothing matters.. existential nihilism.. it'll kill you quicker than death itself. You would not care to eat, not care to move around, not care to socialize.. your mental clarity will start to fade.. you will be dying while still having a possible future ahead of you. The truth is scary. Fear makes us doubt. Living with doubt is horrible. If you live with love.... you will love others and they will love you for loving them. Love is the best thing in the world. If you don't believe that, then you prefer lust.. whores. Diseases, that whores will end up getting.. drugs.. that everyone will be taking.. just for escape.. an escape from a cold, uncaring world.. that is just if you prefer lust. And don't balance it with some love.. like, towards your parents. Or yourself. Or your friends.

i'm not saying that i'm smarter then Sir Isaac Newton in anyway shape or form, but i'm just saying, the Bible says that unless someone is born-again and has the Holy Spirit guiding them, they will NEVER be able to understand the Bible, no matter how much you read or how smart you are.



also, most Churches now days are basicly dead, teaching doctrines of devils, such as lordship salvation, ect. like 95% of churchgoers now days have religion, and churchianity, but they don't have Christ.


1 Timothy 4:1 "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils"

*Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
*Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
*Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
*Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world ― on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be the Messiah. Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming. Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright; in the Bible no concept of a second coming exists.

[NHSport]

the council of nicaea confirmed the Apostles' teaching of who Christ is -- the One true God in Deity and Trinity with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

By a group of corruptible humans 325 years later. CENTURIES LATER. In an effort to consolidate the power of this faith into the government (back then church/state was the same thing). So basically - if you want to get to this heaven that you dream of - you'll have to do it thru our new organization. Control at it's finest. Brilliant actually.

first you have OP claiming that "Jesus never existed" like he's some kind of advanced theologian that's smarter and has more information then everyone else in the world.

That would actually be a historian disputing the existence of a human from our recorded history

then you has muslims claiming that "Jesus existed but he was just a prophet, not God", which is just as bad as saying he never even existed.

That's because they have their own dogma they believe in brah

1 John 2:22 "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son"


Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty"


Jesus Christ stands unique in history, with His voice rising above all false gods and continuing to ask the question that ultimately determines a person’s eternal destiny:

Matthew 16:15 "He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?"


Philippians 2:9-10, “Wherefore God also hath highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth.”

Just a heads up - quoting from the book you believe in does not help your argument. Srs

there is overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ, both in secular and biblical history. perhaps the greatest evidence that Jesus did exist is the fact that literally thousands of Christians in the first century A.D., including the twelve apostles, were willing to give their lives as martyrs for Jesus Christ. people will die for what they believe to be true, but no one will die for what they know to be a lie.

Look up brah, there are people doing that today. I mean seriously they are. They're strapping bombs to their bodies, driving vehicles full of explosives into crowds, check the news.

the fact that Jesus is the most attacked person in history PROVES that there is SOMETHING special about him, if he was just some jewish carpenter who was a good teacher over 2000 years ago, then why is he still so popular today? why is he the most popular person in history if there's nothing special about him?

That's not correct. He's pretty darn popular in the culture you have been raised in. But in other parts of the world like Asia (including India), Africa, etc - they believe in all sorts of things, and Jesus ain't that popular. Sure people that do believe in Jesus tend to be kinda fanatic and 'spread the word' (with the sword if needed). I think they feel like they are on a 'mission' or something. It's kinda creepy

why do so many people try to twist and attack his deity? why are there so many false prophets over history who claim to be Christ?
because Jesus truely IS God Almighty, and people are drawn to him. it is evil and wicked that men have diminished the deity of Jesus Christ, and have taken away from the due worship that Jesus is worthy to receive. Jesus is the name above every other name; the King of kings and Lord of lords.
and he is my crucified, buried, and risen from the dead savior.

Wow, you're gushing! So cute. And foking scary that there are millions like you that are blinded by dogma. By any name - it's scary/insane

[leakypipe23]

OP do you also still believe in Santa Claus? Plenty of books that say he is real.

[WARtx3]

[MisterrrM]

where have the Bible been wrong bro?

OP, explain this

]

OP, again, answer this if the bible is not wrong

[Ehudd]

denying jesu's
























































































denying jesu's

















































































































































































denying jesu's










































































































































denying jesu's

[ThunderClapper]

denying jesu's
























































































denying jesu's

















































































































































































denying jesu's










































































































































denying jesu's

someone murder this ******* plz

[Ehudd]

someone murder this ******* plz

Im tired of these debates. Christians looking like fools debating about sh*t they can only back up with bible verses. Untill a decent debate commences, denying jesu's

[BrownOut]

You were born in the U.S. that is why you are a christian. You had no choice in the matter because you probably grew up in a majority christian area. Your parents probably attended church so you did also. You have been raised and systematically brainwashed to believe your religion is the right religion so you are completely biased and it is hard to take you seriously.

If you were born in the India you would be Hindu and you would probably be just as adamant as you are right now about the verity of your religion except you would be claiming that Hinduism is the one true religion instead of christianity.

[BushrodButtram]

4th post in that thread




******* get your religion out of here





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
That wiki page contains the argument for and against, along with links to other sources. There's a lot of interesting books on the subject, along with online guides, but the TL;DR version of them is this:

There's no contemporary accounts of Jesus's existence, although there are records of many other leaders and religious movements in Jerusalem at the time.
The first descriptions of Jesus come from Paul, long after Jesus' death. Paul never claims to have met Jesus or witnessed the events of the New Testament, only to have had "visions" and citing witnesses who are otherwise not known to exist. Many people read Paul's writings, and began following it as a religion.
About fifty years later, historians begin writing about the existence of Christianity as a movement. None claim independent knowledge as to the actual existence of Jesus, let alone being able to confirm his life.

Not long after that, a group of Christian followers noticed that people were starting to gather their own compendiums of stories about Jesus, to make "official" what happened. These Greek and Roman followers instead compiled their own accounts of what happened, supposedly based on oral stories whose origin whose supposedly people like Mark, Matthew and John. None of these gospels were written in the century Jesus was alive, none were even alleged to be written by the people themselves, and none were written without independent knowledge of the existing stories.

TL;DR of the TL;DR: There's no historical evidence that Jesus existed, rather than that a story and it's followers existed. There were other people like him at the time, so if you leave out the supernatural bits it's totally plausible, and doing so makes explaining the origin of the religion easier, so historians often gloss over the issue. But it's not in any way confirmed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histori...and_chronology

Lol? Your own link says: "The question of the existence of Jesus as a historical figure is distinct from the study of the historical Jesus which goes beyond the analysis of his historicity and attempts to reconstruct portraits of his life and teachings, based on methods such as biblical criticism of gospel texts and the history of first century Judea.[1][2][4][3]

Virtually all modern theology scholars agree that Jesus existed, and see the theories of his non-existence as effectively refuted.[5][29][7][8][9] In antiquity, the existence of Jesus was never denied by those who opposed Christianity.[30] Robert E. Van Voorst states that the idea of the non-historicity of the existence of Jesus has always been controversial, and has consistently failed to convince scholars of many disciplines.[6]

Although a very small number of modern scholars argue that Jesus never existed, that view is a distinct minority and most scholars consider theories that Jesus' existence was a Christian invention as implausible.[31][2] Christopher Tuckett states that the existence of Jesus and his crucifixion by Pontius Pilate seem to be part of the bedrock of historical tradition, based on the availability of non-Christian evidence.[2] Graham Stanton states that "Today nearly all historians, whether Christians or not, accept that Jesus existed".[32]"

Do you read your own links?

[DepressedBrahh]

OP, explain this

]

OP, again, answer this if the bible is not wrong

those supposed "contradictions" were taken waaaay out of context by people trying to prove a point.

such as the "works vs faith" one.




are we justified by works AND faith?

"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." —James 2:24


NO!



many people misunderstand the words of James the Apostle because they don't know their Bible well.


"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works" (James 2:18).

James goes on to say in verse 24, "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." at first glance, it sure does seem like the Bible is requiring works for salvation; BUT, as you will see, nothing could be further from the TRUTH.




carefully notice James 2:21, "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?" this event took place in Genesis 22:8-10.

now notice Genesis 15:6, "And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness."

rhe event which took place in Genesis 15:6 was different from the event which took place in Genesis 22:8-10. we see in the New Testament that Paul spoke of the ROOT of Abraham's faith, BUT, James spoke of the FRUIT of Abraham's faith.


We read in Romans 4:3, "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness."


This occurred in Genesis 15:6, which is when Abraham was born again. Paul said in Romans 5:1, "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."


Paul doesn't mention works. Romans 4:5 declares, "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."


yet, James declares in James 2:21, "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?"


this event took place years later, when Isaac had grown at least old enough to speak clearly to his father (Genesis 22:7). James is simply saying that if a person is genuinely saved by faith, then there should be some FRUIT (good works) in that person's life to show it.

BUT, James was NOT teaching that works are necessary to be saved--they aren't! Abraham was saved by faith ALONE!


Titus 3:5 clearly states, "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us..."


we are saved by FAITH ALONE, NOT WORKS.


Ephesians 2:8-9 " For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."




just one of the few "contradictions" explained.

[ThunderClapper]

Im tired of these debates. Christians looking like fools debating about sh*t they can only back up with bible verses. Untill a decent debate commences, denying jesu's

Lol, what pisses me off is the way they assert something they fuking read in a book as if its the ultimate and only truth. Anyone can read any ancient text and believe that it is the only truth that exists, how would you be able to prove or disprove it? How does one truly know their OWN religion is right or wrong? Who says the Islam isn't the correct religion or the Vedas isn't really where the truth lies?

I said it before and i'll say it again, if you're going to follow a religion, follow one that gives you first-hand experience with your own eyes and mind, if not, shut the hell up, you're not special or smarter than anyone else, there's no special heaven prepared for you when you die because for all we know, you might just end up rotting in the dirt.

[yehmadbrah]

even a majority of modern historians all believe that jesus existed

[MisterrrM]

just one of the few "contradictions" explained.

Yeah that's one 'explained', but there were more than one.

Also how do you feel about God being merciful but having the death punishment for things like adultery and following another religion. Isn't he supposed to forgive everyone?

[Ehudd]

denying jesu's

[joeyrey]

I can confirm, i was the scripture

[Dragonslayer5]

You don't fukin know what's true. I don't fukin know what's true. Nobody fukin knows what is true. Nobody knows anything. There is no way anyone can know. Just accept it.

[BeefStrokinoff]

OP how come none of the historians around the time Jesus supposedly walked the earth wrote about him?

If there was someone walking around performing miracles why are there not statues or busts of this amazing person/God?


Now I will aware you on the ORIGIN of Jesus...and many other so called Gods....



























EGYPT. Do some research on facts and stop quoting something that cannot be proven by the facts.

[DepressedBrahh]

Yeah that's one 'explained', but there were more than one.

Also how do you feel about God being merciful but having the death punishment for things like adultery and following another religion. Isn't he supposed to forgive everyone?

those laws were giving only to a certain group of people (Israel) back in the old testament time period, they were done away with when Jesus died on the cross.



also,

John 8:1-11 "And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. 3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8

And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."


the pharisees brought a woman who was literaly JUST caught in the act breaking the law of adulterey, which was punishable by death. they brought her to Jesus(God in the flesh), and you know what Jesus did? he got between her and them, and stood up for her. literaly this girl had just gotten caught in the act, and Jesus had already forgiven her and protected her. that's how loveing, forgiveing, and merciful God is.

[magog704]

i started worshiping satan and gained 30 pounds lean

[basement iron]

that thread is literally the worst thread i've ever seen, dead serious. [/B]

Tell us all about how if you grew up in the middle east you would still be a christian.

[ThunderClapper]

those laws were giving only to a certain group of people (Israel) back in the old testament time period, they were done away with when Jesus died on the cross.



also,

John 8:1-11 "And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. 3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8

And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."


the pharisees brought a woman who was literaly JUST caught in the act breaking the law of adulterey, which was punishable by death. they brought her to Jesus(God in the flesh), and you know what Jesus did? he got between her and them, and stood up for her. literaly this girl had just gotten caught in the act, and Jesus had already forgiven her and protected her. that's how loveing, forgiveing, and merciful God is.

Lol at this dude still quoting bible verses. I think i've proven my point here, gonna exit thread now.

[16V]

That stupid fuc*ing book is not evidence.. all those words mean NOTHING.

Human evolution on the otherhand... lots of supportive data.

[DepressedBrahh]

Tell us all about how if you grew up in the middle east you would still be a christian.

there are tons of people born in the middle east who have found Christ.


Deuteronomy 4:29 "But if from thence thou shalt seek the Lord thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul."

anyone who truely seeks the Lord will find him, even amidst tons of false religion and lies like Islam, if someone in the middle east truely seeked God, then God would reveal the truth to that person in someway or another.

[strunz]

all i know is that we cant really ever know


n that drives me insane

when can i move on with my life n get over this impass