starvation mode and how to know how low is too low?

[mc54iznit]

i've been stuck at 200 pounds for a while now (1.5 months) and i don't know if i should be increasing my calorie limit or decreasing. Up until now i've been eating 2000-2200 calories a day, and up until now i've calculated my tdee to be around 2800-3000. I workout 6 days a week and do cardio on each of those days as well. Is it possible i need to start eating more calories or maybe cut down?

how low exactly would i have to be for my metabolism to slow down and cause me to expend less energy? because i feel like cutting at 2000 should be enough for anyone except for the most active people.

[dcmaggio]

i've been stuck at 200 pounds for a while now (1.5 months) and i don't know if i should be increasing my calorie limit or decreasing. Up until now i've been eating 2000-2200 calories a day, and up until now i've calculated my tdee to be around 2800-3000. I workout 6 days a week and do cardio on each of those days as well. Is it possible i need to start eating more calories or maybe cut down?

how low exactly would i have to be for my metabolism to slow down and cause me to expend less energy? because i feel like cutting at 2000 should be enough for anyone except for the most active people.

How accurate are you when it comes to calculating calories ? Most people underestimate their calories by quite a bit (for some reason I think around 33% is the average)

I personally would decrease it, 2200 isn't very low.

ANYTIME you eat at a calorie deficit your metabolism will slow down and cause you to expend less energy. For a very small deficit it might be an incredibly insignificant amount, and as the deficit gets greater so will the slowdown.

If youre doing 6 solid workouts a week (figure 400 calories a workout) and (400 calories of cardio) 6x a week, I would imagine 2200 being fine, but maybe try cutting a little more at a time.

1800~ calories a day is still quite a decent amount of food.

[earthshieldlol]

how are you measuring your calories? weighing everything? i'd say you are either eating more calories than you think or you just need to bump it down a bit lower. to be stalling at 2000cals/day at 216lbs doesn't seem likely.

[mc54iznit]

how are you measuring your calories? weighing everything? i'd say you are either eating more calories than you think or you just need to bump it down a bit lower. to be stalling at 2000cals/day at 216lbs doesn't seem likely.

i use a scale to weigh my meat and stuff like that, and count pretty accurately using myfitness pal. also i'm not 216 anymore i'm at 200, my profile is just unupdated. The weird thing is lately in the gym i've been having tons more energy, my deadlift and squats 2 rep maxes went up to 5 reps these past weeks. Makes me think i might be eating at maintenance or higher. Also i'm still noticing increase in vascularity even though my weight isn't going down, and i don't really know how to explain that.

[dcmaggio]

i use a scale to weigh my meat and stuff like that, and count pretty accurately using myfitness pal. also i'm not 216 anymore i'm at 200, my profile is just unupdated. The weird thing is lately in the gym i've been having tons more energy, my deadlift and squats 2 rep maxes went up to 5 reps these past weeks. Makes me think i might be eating at maintenance or higher. Also i'm still noticing increase in vascularity even though my weight isn't going down, and i don't really know how to explain that.

Vascularity is tied to bf%

Increased vascularity while weight is maintaining could mean fat loss + lbm gains offsetting on the scale, while ur bf% is dropping.

Or the vascularity (much more likely considering a 1.5month time span is short) could be entirely related to hydration/water retention/sodium intake etc.

And if you were eating higher than maintenance your weight would go up.

[buckiaj]

OP - Starvation Mode has actually pretty much been debunked to the standards that most bros accepted for years. (aka, eating too little will cause fat gain) The above poster is right, that anytime you eat less, your metabolism slows down, but never enough of a slow down to overcome those additional calories not eaten. (you eat 100 less calories, your body might burn 10 less calories now. still a 90 cal net - for example, no science to that math)

I also got slight lulz over OP thinking that 2200 calories could ever stall weigh loss due to starvation mode. If anything, 2,200 calories can stall weight loss because your body is burning that same amount everyday.

Eat less than what you are eating currently OP if you want the scale to go down. With your measurements, 2,200 should be low enough to see your weigh drop, so its possible that you are actually eating more than 2,200 right now.

[longshot365]

i don't think any man who is exercising several times per week, especially with weights, should be eating anything less than 2000cals a day.most national average say males should consume 2500, so you're already 500 below that without even factoring in any exercise or muscle mass you may have acquired.

Plus anything less than 2000 a day will be hampering your ability to put in 100% in the gym which should be everyone on this websites primary concern.

[earthshieldlol]

i don't think any man who is exercising several times per week, especially with weights, should be eating anything less than 2000cals a day.most national average say males should consume 2500, so you're already 500 below that without even factoring in any exercise or muscle mass you may have acquired.

Plus anything less than 2000 a day will be hampering your ability to put in 100% in the gym which should be everyone on this websites primary concern.

This is the Losing Fat forum. No deficit = no loss.

[buckiaj]

i don't think any man who is exercising several times per week, especially with weights, should be eating anything less than 2000cals a day.most national average say males should consume 2500, so you're already 500 below that without even factoring in any exercise or muscle mass you may have acquired.

Plus anything less than 2000 a day will be hampering your ability to put in 100% in the gym which should be everyone on this websites primary concern.

Odd, because at 2,500 calories, i will gain weight. I am 5"8ish, closer to 5"9 maybe, and If i eat more than 1800-1900 calories, I will maintain my weight.

If OP is eating 2200 calories and is plateauing, its because he is eating too much.

Afterall, this is a losing fat forum. Not a recomping section for muscle gains and fat loss. Almost all advice given here should be with the thought of losing fat and maintaining muscle. Very few people could do that at your rec of 2,500 calories a day. Esp for any newb

[cyco85]

A deficit which exceeds approximately 30 cals per pound of body fat could be considered "too much". So, if you're 200 lbs with 20% BF, you have 40 lbs of fat so a deficit of 1200-1400 is probably too much. Note, however even if starvation mode existed you'd still lose mass, your BF% and overall comp would just suffer. You wouldn't see a scale weight stall, you'd just look worse. Honestly, I wouldn't cut on less than 10xBW per day. I cut on 2000-2200 cals per day and I'm a software developer (e.g. not a physical job). Just sayin.... you're probably eating more than that.

Please post your exact diet (with gram weights of each item) including cals and macros. If you don't have this logged, do this for 3 weeks AND then ask this question.

[longshot365]

This is the Losing Fat forum. No deficit = no loss.

i didn't say anything about defecits in my post. if your genuinely consuming 2000 calories each day, whilst performing a weight training programme, and still not losing weight, then i would suggest adding cardiovascular training to create any further deficit. say what you want but i don't believe anyone needs to be eating below 2000 calories a day, it isn't productive for building or even maintaining muscle, it isn't conducive to giving 100% in the gym and genuinely BUILDING your BODY, and most importantly it isn't fun or enjoyable, which is what life is supposed to be about?

[StacksItRich]

Must be miscounting. My brothers friend claims he was under eating and then one day i told him to take pictures of his meals. Hes 240 pounds probably maintaining 3500+ with the gym. Turns out his 400 calorie cereal looked like 2 cups of full fat milk and like 4-5 servings of cereal. People don't realize how small a serving is. More like 900 than 400. So a 500 calorie difference in one breakfeast.

2200 sounds good cut calories. 2600-3000+ should be maintenance for a 200 pound male. Bmr is 2000 alone

[abendm]

I'm going to assume OP is actually weighing ****, just cuz otherwise we're all saying the same thing. I was in a situation like this as well until recently, and I go overboard with my weighing **** (I weigh nonfat coffee creamer, I weigh whey powder). I'm 209 and was failing to lose on an average of 1800 eaten per day, with four days lifting + low amount of LISS and two days of M/HISS (anaerobic intervals, not HIIT, followed by steady state at 150 BPM) per week. I've started eating a recomp sort of protocol (surplus lift days, deficit non... IF style) and have also noticed increased vascularity and some lost weight over the past few weeks; just this morning had abs pop for the first time in the bathroom mirror (dehydrated though, yest was a prty big deficit).

I can't ****ing explain it, cuz I know scientifically there's no starvation mode and that adaptive thermogenesis isn't THAT big of an effect. That's just what it is. I've had similar experiences in the past when I was eating over maintenance after a cutting plateau. I was training for a bike endurance event. Deadlift increased 50 lb that month, lost a few pounds, first veins ever, at a 500 kCal surplus.

Given that summer is over, unless you live in SoCal, I'd try upping the cals. Worst comes to worse, you put on more muscle than fat. Maybe however you'll have the same unexplainable experience I've been having though. Still plenty of time to cut till next summer if you're wrong.

[jmf5y2]

Can we talk about girls for a second here? Same problem. Cannnnnot lose, and I've been in a STRICT deficit for a while. I workout hard 6x a week with strength training and cardio (I lift heavy too) and I'm an active, 20 year old college girl. I'm beyond stuck and I'm feeling unmotivated to say the least. Switch up my workouts constantly, eat often and good, stay on track..it's not working. Help?

[Retoaded]

what is your TDEE? what are you eating every day? how are you counting it?

chances are...something in that equation is not right.

[igglesphan]

Can we talk about girls for a second here? Same problem. Cannnnnot lose, and I've been in a STRICT deficit for a while. I workout hard 6x a week with strength training and cardio (I lift heavy too) and I'm an active, 20 year old college girl. I'm beyond stuck and I'm feeling unmotivated to say the least. Switch up my workouts constantly, eat often and good, stay on track..it's not working. Help?

Sounds like you're under the impression there's an advantage to "eating often"... there isn't... meal timing and frequency is largely irrelevant.

To answer your question, if you aren't losing weight, you're simply eating too much.

[longshot365]

Sounds like you're under the impression there's an advantage to "eating often"... there isn't... meal timing and frequency is largely irrelevant.

To answer your question, if you aren't losing weight, you're simply eating too much.

Or, as I suspect is the case with a lot of people in this section, eating too little.

[igglesphan]

Or, as I suspect is the case with a lot of people in this section, eating too little.

No, she said she hasn't been losing any weight.

[valkaree]

No, she said she hasn't been losing any weight.

I am 5'10 200lbs and cut at 1400 calories 6 days a week but have 1 cheat meal. Over all I am losing 1.5lbs per week. My cheat meal is at a resturant and not that big. I would say I take in 2000 calories that particular day. I am amazed at how much food some of you eat. I have a pretty high body fat but still, if I ate 2200 calories I would put on some weight. I work out 3 days a week and walk on treadmill (120bpm target) for 30 minutes 3 days a week. I agree, if you are not losing weight, you are eating too much. Forget what you think you should be eating. I can also tell you my fat intake was very important and when I would stall slightly I was not getting enough fat.

[CarlitosBX]

I am 5'10 200lbs and cut at 1400 calories 6 days a week but have 1 cheat meal. Over all I am losing 1.5lbs per week. My cheat meal is at a resturant and not that big. I would say I take in 2000 calories that particular day. I am amazed at how much food some of you eat. I have a pretty high body fat but still, if I ate 2200 calories I would put on some weight. I work out 3 days a week and walk on treadmill (120bpm target) for 30 minutes 3 days a week. I agree, if you are not losing weight, you are eating too much. Forget what you think you should be eating. I can also tell you my fat intake was very important and when I would stall slightly I was not getting enough fat.

I'm at the same stars except I'm 215 now haven't been able to cut I'm also stuck at eating 2K calories. And a cheat meal a day I been thinking in going with a 1,500 cal deficit but seems to low.

[cyco85]

I am 5'10 200lbs and cut at 1400 calories 6 days a week but have 1 cheat meal. Over all I am losing 1.5lbs per week. My cheat meal is at a resturant and not that big. I would say I take in 2000 calories that particular day. I am amazed at how much food some of you eat. I have a pretty high body fat but still, if I ate 2200 calories I would put on some weight. I work out 3 days a week and walk on treadmill (120bpm target) for 30 minutes 3 days a week. I agree, if you are not losing weight, you are eating too much. Forget what you think you should be eating. I can also tell you my fat intake was very important and when I would stall slightly I was not getting enough fat.

You are surely eating more than that with those stats/weight loss.

[longshot365]

No, she said she hasn't been losing any weight.

I realise that but I believe a lot of people want to lose weight so bad they'll do loads of exercise on top of a severely calorie restricted diet.

The body doesn't like this and will in a lot of cases refuse to lose fat because it believes it needs it for survival. I don't want to call it starvation mode but there is bound to be a significant metabolic decrease that is doing the trainee no favours.

Sometimes i think it's better for people to realise the body needs a certain amount of fuel to function and if it doesn't get enough it becomes unpredictable.

[TroJon]

Add cardio, certain profit.

[valkaree]

You are surely eating more than that with those stats/weight loss.

I can 100% assure you I am not.

[igglesphan]

I realise that but I believe a lot of people want to lose weight so bad they'll do loads of exercise on top of a severely calorie restricted diet.

The body doesn't like this and will in a lot of cases refuse to lose fat because it believes it needs it for survival. I don't want to call it starvation mode but there is bound to be a significant metabolic decrease that is doing the trainee no favours.



Sometimes i think it's better for people to realise the body needs a certain amount of fuel to function and if it doesn't get enough it becomes unpredictable.

You're confused. She isn't losing weight and therefore, isn't in a caloric deficit. I understand her metabolism can be downregulated from eating less, but she indicated she isn't losing any weight at all. Even if your deficit is too steep, you'll continue to lose weight... right up the the point where you die.

[valkaree]

you're confused. She isn't losing weight and therefore, isn't in a caloric deficit. I understand her metabolism can be downregulated from eating less, but she indicated she isn't losing any weight at all. Even if your deficit is too steep, you'll continue to lose weight... Right up the the point where you die.

^^^^^^^yes yes and yes ^^^^^^^^

[deejalert]

You're confused. She isn't losing weight and therefore, isn't in a caloric deficit. I understand her metabolism can be downregulated from eating less, but she indicated she isn't losing any weight at all. Even if your deficit is too steep, you'll continue to lose weight... right up the the point where you die.

See but this is not popular belief. People don't want to hear eat less because you are not in a deficit. They want to hear you are not eating enough to lose weight. 99.999% of people are not different/special. Not losing weight = eating more or equal to what you burn.

[abendm]

See but this is not popular belief. People don't want to hear eat less because you are not in a deficit. They want to hear you are not eating enough to lose weight. 99.999% of people are not different/special. Not losing weight = eating more or equal to what you burn.

I get all the science, and I can only speak anecdotally, but I PSMFed for a point (i.e., I ate about 800-1100 kCal a day, only protein) and didn't lose weight, or lost WAAYYY less than I should have been for a while. Meanwhile, after doing that, I started eating 3K kCal and didn't put on any weight. Hence my above post. I can't explain it, perhaps it was what another poster stated about cardio on top of a massive deficit causing a downregulation in either NEAT or RMR; I don't know. All I know is that in the past two weeks I've eaten such that at the end of week I'm at maintenance. Also, in the last two weeks, my top four abs have popped when flexed. As an aside, they're ****ing spectacular, all chunky and cinder-blocky... weighted decline situps FTW!

[Retoaded]

She isn't losing weight and therefore, isn't in a caloric deficit.

My magic 8-ball says It Is Decidedly So. Plus the laws of physics and thermodynamics.

[coconuttree2009]

I am 5'10 200lbs and cut at 1400 calories 6 days a week but have 1 cheat meal. Over all I am losing 1.5lbs per week. My cheat meal is at a resturant and not that big. I would say I take in 2000 calories that particular day. I am amazed at how much food some of you eat. I have a pretty high body fat but still, if I ate 2200 calories I would put on some weight. I work out 3 days a week and walk on treadmill (120bpm target) for 30 minutes 3 days a week. I agree, if you are not losing weight, you are eating too much. Forget what you think you should be eating. I can also tell you my fat intake was very important and when I would stall slightly I was not getting enough fat.

I'd be amazed if with your stats, activity levels and correct counting you would gain on 2200kcals. I maintain easily on that without cardio and lose at 1800-1900...