Deadlift or not to deadlift...confused

[dustman007]

My physio tells me deadlifting is putting too much pressure on my back and showed me this graph as proof

https://ittcs.wordpress.com/tag/intervertebral-disc/

He told me not to do deadlift and especially not romanian deadlift... and that will avoid the lower back pain.

But then i see articles about how good RDL is....for the lower back...hamstrings and hips...

https://www.alphamale.co/romanian-de...-and-benifits/

My hamstrings are tight. So are my hip flexors.... and i am getting lower back pain when i deadlift.

My squat is fine... no pain (but im still not getting parallel after 9 months)

My sports doctor said i can deadlift... just to go light...

Both my physio and sports doctor recommended to do pilates to improve my flexibility and core strength.

So i am a bit confused which direction to head... i havent done deadlifts in over a month.

At the moment i am afraid to deadlift because i dont want the lower back pain to return.

Alan thrall also promotes RDL... 3 mill views!
https://youtu.be/jEy_czb3RKA

[dustman007]

Ive been training for about 9 months.... power lifting routines. I started with stronglifts.

Im currently doing
Bench press
Incline bench
Close grip bench
Ohp
Squats
Lunges
Bb rows
Curls and skullcrushers

The only exercise that causes me pain is the deadlift...

[dustman007]

1. That’s a google search not a graph. Your physio and doctor are clearly not versed in the benefits of deadlifting or the general guidelines at all. Movement doesn’t cause pain and pain isn’t caused by movement. The current literature would definitely suggest that.

Oops... graph in

https://ittcs.wordpress.com/tag/intervertebral-disc/

[PeaceWithin]

Ive been training for about 9 months.... power lifting routines. I started with stronglifts.

Im currently doing
Bench press
Incline bench
Close grip bench
Ohp
Squats
Lunges
Bb rows
Curls and skullcrushers

The only exercise that causes me pain is the deadlift...

Can you post a form of your deadlifts?

I can also squat/BB row (which can involve lower back) but have gotten lower back pain from deadlifts. Posted a form check video here and got some great suggestions.

[dustman007]

Chances are your medical providers are trying to nocebo you into not performing these movements because theyre not qualified to coach them. Even if you do have some sort of spinal abnormality doesnt mean you stop training, just means you need to start from the bottom.
According to a study published by NEJM in 1994 the findings of most Spinal abnormalities are coincidental and dont have much to do with the cause of your lower back pain.

Well... i had an mri and it showed mild to moderate scheurmanns disease....

The first sports doctor i saw said to stop ALL squats deadlifts rows etc... anything with back. He seemed inexperienced and was googling as he went... so i sought a 2nd opinion.... the 2nd sports doctor has done work with top grade rugby teams etc... he seemed competent... he said the sheurumanns wasnt causing the pain... it was more the lack of flexibility in hamstrings and hips. He said to do deads but at lighter weights...

[Liftingbuckets]

I do moderate weight deadlifts. Never been injured doing them.

I've twisted back muscles from regular living and being lazy when reaching for things.

Overall I would say the deadlift is good for your back provided technique is good and you don't go too heavy.

Also good posture when sitting in sofas or day to day living. Look after your back. You only get one.

[Liftingbuckets]

"it was more the lack of flexibility in hamstrings and hips. He said to do deads but at lighter weights..."

I would agree. Heard other experienced people say the same thing.

[dustman007]

Just did a workout...did romanian deadlifts with just the bar... back was a little sore when i went deep but not so bar. Got some good stretch on glutes and hamstrings.

[Liftingbuckets]

Just did a workout...did romanian deadlifts with just the bar... back was a little sore when i went deep but not so bar. Got some good stretch on glutes and hamstrings.

Do some stretching everyday. Should be some good ideas online.

[SuffolkPunch]

My physio told me I should deadlift. He knew I was lifting weights but not that I already deadlifted.

However, there could be a reason why they specifically told you not to. You could try getting a second opinion but you should respect what the professionals are telling you otherwise you are putting your health at risk.

[Luca2]

^ Yes. And more to the point, do you want to deadlift? What is your goal? General health & size or competitive powerlifting? You only need straight bar, bilateral deadlifts for the latter.

[Gwybodaeth]

I suppose it depends on the severity of your condition. If your back is in permanent flexion, you would be at risk of disc damage during heavy deadlifts. How's your t-spine extension? Maybe things like hyperextensions will help.

[Ghawk21]

Get a second opinion. Unless you have some legitimate back issue then you shouldn't need to avoid them all together. If you are cleared then post a video, lighter weight so you aren't hurting yourself. We get a lot of people here who think their form is fantastic and its not at all, definitely worth looking at. I'm not sure what type of warm up you do but check out Defranco's Limber 11 Should help loosen up you hips and hammies prior to working out.

[Ecto9783]

I'm not sure if that graph totally applies to deadlifting. Does it take into consideration the stabilizing forces acting on the lumbar spine like the abdominals?

I've always understood a properly performed DL to be one of the most beneficial movements in all of weight training.

[dustman007]

Get a second opinion. Unless you have some legitimate back issue then you shouldn't need to avoid them all together. If you are cleared then post a video, lighter weight so you aren't hurting yourself. We get a lot of people here who think their form is fantastic and its not at all, definitely worth looking at. I'm not sure what type of warm up you do but check out Defranco's Limber 11 Should help loosen up you hips and hammies prior to working out.

Ive gotten 3 opinions... 1st sports doctor said no to anything load bearing on back (but he was young and seemed a noob)
2nd sports doctor said deadlift light (seemed competent)
Physio said no deadlifts... especially no RDL (seemed competent... but he wanted me to do his pilates... so may have been biased)

Anyhow... tried barbell only weighted RDL last night... at the end of workout i felt ok...today my hamstrings were sore but back was ok

I might do light rack pull deads and RDL until i get some flexibility and core strength.

Ive done 4 sessions of pilates and it destroys my stomach...

[Ghawk21]

Ive gotten 3 opinions... 1st sports doctor said no to anything load bearing on back (but he was young and seemed a noob)
2nd sports doctor said deadlift light (seemed competent)
Physio said no deadlifts... especially no RDL (seemed competent... but he wanted me to do his pilates... so may have been biased)

Anyhow... tried barbell only weighted RDL last night... at the end of workout i felt ok...today my hamstrings were sore but back was ok

I might do light rack pull deads and RDL until i get some flexibility and core strength.

Ive done 4 sessions of pilates and it destroys my stomach...

Get a video of the RDLs next time if you can and upload it here. Has any of the physios actually given you a diagnosis aside from tight muscles? Any luck with the Limber 11? Also check out the Stu McGill big 3, guy is know as the back doctor and recommends these 3 exercises for working on core strength to fix back pain.

[dustman007]

I did squats tonight.... i was lying on the floor doing stretches and i could actually feel my abs contract... first time ever....my core is actuslly activating. Thats after 4 sessions of pilates

I tried 77.5 kg squat tonight... 4 sets of 6 reps. Tried to activste my core before each rep.... was still hard to lift but i definitely felt... something....

[dustman007]

Get a video of the RDLs next time if you can and upload it here. Has any of the physios actually given you a diagnosis aside from tight muscles? Any luck with the Limber 11? Also check out the Stu McGill big 3, guy is know as the back doctor and recommends these 3 exercises for working on core strength to fix back pain.

Hamstrings are still sore from RDL 2 days ago....and i only did the bar...

[PowerIsNowledge]

Deadlifting can be the overall healthiest exercise for your body. Though you can do more harm than good if your form is poor and/or if you use too much weight. Don't use it as a weight lifting competition, focus on good form because it builds your legs, lower back, and core which can help you push past your lifting goals. Remember it's not a competition, do what's best for YOU!

[grubman]

Ive gotten 3 opinions... 1st sports doctor said no to anything load bearing on back (but he was young and seemed a noob)
2nd sports doctor said deadlift light (seemed competent)
Physio said no deadlifts... especially no RDL (seemed competent... but he wanted me to do his pilates... so may have been biased)

Anyhow... tried barbell only weighted RDL last night... at the end of workout i felt ok...today my hamstrings were sore but back was ok

I might do light rack pull deads and RDL until i get some flexibility and core strength.

Ive done 4 sessions of pilates and it destroys my stomach...

2 proffesional opinions say “no”, and one says, “maybe, but light”...to me that is leaning toward “no” as well.

There are tons of good excercises for every body part. Deadlifts are great...but they aren’t magic or necessary. Why take unnecessary risks with (lower back) such an important part of your body?

[dustman007]

Deadlifting can be the overall healthiest exercise for your body. Though you can do more harm than good if your form is poor and/or if you use too much weight. Don't use it as a weight lifting competition, focus on good form because it builds your legs, lower back, and core which can help you push past your lifting goals. Remember it's not a competition, do what's best for YOU!

I did deadlift, or rack pull from knee height, last night. First time in 2 months. Have been doing pilates.... helping me to learn how to activate my core, hams and glutes...

Did 3 sets of 5 reps at 40kg.... felt good. No lower back pain today.

Should i stay ultra light or start linear loading?

[Luca2]

2 proffesional opinions say “no”, and one says, “maybe, but light”...to me that is leaning toward “no” as well.

There are tons of good excercises for every body part. Deadlifts are great...but they aren’t magic or necessary. Why take unnecessary risks with (lower back) such an important part of your body?

This. Which leads me back to my original question - why do you want to deadlift? If your aim is simply to train for health and size, conventional deadlifts are not a requirement in any shape or form.

[1Fuzzy1]

Op, I may be able to relate a little. I am almost 50... 25 years ago I had a bad accident which left me with 3 herniated discs (2 in lower back, 1 in neck). Up until a few years ago, I had pain all the time but was not lifting or even working out much....5 years ago, I decided I needed to try to get in shape no matter how painful it was...did p90x for a few years, got in great shape, still had this pain - not quite to the degree but still had it.

Fast forward to approx 2 years ago. Started doing routines on this site. Started with standard DL's but couldn't get comfortable do them so I got a trap bar because of some things I read on here...started trap bar DL's. Today I have very little discomfort at all....I do trap bar DL's twice a week and my core/low back is as strong as ever and I attribute it to mostly this.

So if you still want to do DL's, you may want to give these a try because of the way the weight is centered over your body as opposed to out in front of you.

[PowerIsNowledge]

I would stay at a weight where you're comfortable doing 10-12 reps. From my experiences and what I've seen with friends and all, I really don't see the value in lifting heavy unless you compete. Sounds like you're doing great, if you are going to increase weight, I just recommend doing it slowly.

Good luck!

[dustman007]

I have had a power lifting coach session.... 1 hour working on my deadlift. He took films on 1st set and compared to final set after correction. On first set there was a lot of back rounding... after correction there was still rounding but he said it was acceptable. He told me to do rack pulls at mid shin height and focus on form. Then he sent me on my way.

After a few days i did some rack pulls in my home gym. 3 sets of 5 reps at 55kg. Pretty light. Went alright.

The next day my back was stiff but otherwise ok.... the next day it started aching. Now 4 days later my back is still aching.... a dull throb. Surely this isnt normal? Should i try a trap bar instead?

Anyway, i got a skin cancer cut out of my calf on wednesday... so no squatting or deadlifting for atleast a month. Time to research and contemplate about my training strategy moving forward.

[Cassowary]

You should absolutely be careful, and by all means listen to the opinions of your doctors. But FWIW, that graph isn't "proof" of anything relevant, since it doesn't show a single hip hinge. Yes, there is a good deal of stress to the back structures if you're bending over, holding a weight, with stiff, straight legs, and no lever motion apart from a forward torso tilt.

But that's not how you deadlift, Romanian or otherwise. And the particular stresses on the body depending on whether you lift in the way shown in that graph, versus if you lift with a competent hip hinge, are night and day different.

That doesn't mean your doctors and physios are wrong, and they know a lot more about what's going on with your body. But that piece of evidence, at a minimum, is worthless.