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  1. #1
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    Ian Mcarthy says natties can only synthesize about 12g muscle a day.

    so that comes to around 300 - 400g muscle a month. So why do people recommend eating at a 500cal surplus? Wouldnt a 100 - 200cal surplus be more than enough?
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  2. #2
    Registered User foreveryoung21's Avatar
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    U wot
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    You thought the number would be higher than 12g?
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    idk lol LegosInMyEgos's Avatar
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    Did Ian really make that specific of a claim?

    Because body frame alone can cause variations in excess of 50% purely on the merit on individual differences in total body volume.
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    Originally Posted by Loctus View Post
    You thought the number would be higher than 12g?
    ive seen 20 - 25lbs a year thrown out in these parts.
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  6. #6
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    Originally Posted by cutNhardR View Post
    ive seen 20 - 25lbs a year thrown out in these parts.
    if Ian actually made that claim he is wrong.
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    Originally Posted by LegosInMyEgos View Post
    if Ian actually made that claim he is wrong.
    i think he was quoting a study which showed natties can only synthesize around 12g or something low along those lines.
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  8. #8
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    Are we talking 12 grams of protein or 12 grams of muscle?

    Because 12 grams of protein could be like 40-50 grams of muscle.
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    i believe he said muscle. Its in his latest vid. Maybe he was talking about experienced natty bodybuilders?
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    So?
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  11. #11
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    Assuming what Ian said was true, you still don't know your exact maintenance. You have a calculated estimate. So assuming you calculate 2500 calories as your estimate and go for 2700 calories, you could still be eating at maintenance. If you are going for 3000 then there's a much better chance you're a bit above maintenance and will make the most gains your body is capable of. Obviously there is still a chance that your calculation of 2500 should really have been 2300 and you're eating a lot over maintenance. The truth is that if you're looking to bulk, putting your caloric intake at 500 over calculated maintenance will effectively cause the largest percentage of people to properly gain weight when they choose to bulk. If you're gaining too fast, obviously you can tone that down some and make adjustments as needed.
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by deapee View Post
    Assuming what Ian said was true, you still don't know your exact maintenance. You have a calculated estimate. So assuming you calculate 2500 calories as your estimate and go for 2700 calories, you could still be eating at maintenance. If you are going for 3000 then there's a much better chance you're a bit above maintenance and will make the most gains your body is capable of. Obviously there is still a chance that your calculation of 2500 should really have been 2300 and you're eating a lot over maintenance. The truth is that if you're looking to bulk, putting your caloric intake at 500 over calculated maintenance will effectively cause the largest percentage of people to properly gain weight when they choose to bulk. If you're gaining too fast, obviously you can tone that down some and make adjustments as needed.

    your rational thoughts aren't welcome around here.. this is the anti-ian section. these threads turn into bashing of ian's physique, his red hair, attitude, etc
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  13. #13
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    I would like to see the referenced study. At least abstract. Who were the participants, how controlled was the diet, training regimen, etc
    Hope Ian will chime in here and link it.
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    Originally Posted by cutNhardR View Post
    ive seen 20 - 25lbs a year thrown out in these parts.
    Was the 12g dry weight of the muscle tissue? If so then when accounting for water and glycogen content the 2 pounds a month or 20-25 pounds a year really isn't that unrealistic.
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    12g doesn't sound absurd. That's inline with what an intermediate lifter can gain (according to the charts on Lyle's website, around 1lb a month) and well over what an advanced trainee can gain. And Ian also recommends a smaller surplus, by the way, around 300 to match the slower gain of muscle.

    And the number that 20-25lbs can be gained in a year is in reference to a new(er) lifter. Obviously your surplus should be higher if you're a newer trainee just starting to lift.
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    Originally Posted by LegosInMyEgos View Post
    Are we talking 12 grams of protein or 12 grams of muscle?

    Because 12 grams of protein could be like 40-50 grams of muscle.
    Ian never said it. He couldn't recall it and the person filming mentioned he thought it was 12g. And they would have been talking about protein synthesised, which isn't absurd seeing as 1g adds like 0.4g of glycogen and each gram of glycogen binds like 2.7g water.

    So, if I'm not mistaken, 12g a day over a 30day period would look something like:

    Protein Synthesised - 12 x 30 = 360g
    Glycogen Stores - 360 x 0.4 = 144g
    Water binded - 144 x 2.7 = 388.8g
    Total LBM = 892.8g (1.96lbs)

    Does that look right?
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    My scale only shows grams per 100. Now how will I know my daily gainz!??!?

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    Is it just me or did the OP forget to provide a link ?
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  19. #19
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    Originally Posted by cutNhardR View Post
    so that comes to around 300 - 400g muscle a month. So why do people recommend eating at a 500cal surplus? Wouldnt a 100 - 200cal surplus be more than enough?
    Here is what Lyle says about it:

    Originally Posted by Lyle McDonald
    admin on January 1st, 2009 12:07 am

    When I say ‘gain 1 lb of muscle’ that means 1 lb actual lean body mass. That includes roughly 100-120 grams of actual contractile protein, water, glycogen, etc. that all goes into that one pound of muscle. Make sense? A one pound gain of visible muscle mass contains 100-120 grams of actual protein and everything else contributing to that pound.

    What I’m NOT saying is that you’re gaining an actual one pound (454 grams) of contractile tissue. That would represent about 4 pounds of actual muscle gained (454 / 120 = ~4). Because 4 pounds of actual muscle would contain about that many grams of contractile protein.

    As well, my comment about muscle mass not being the same as lean body mass was more referring to the fact that lean body mass includes things like water, bone, organs, glycogen and a lot of stuff that isn’t actual contractile tissue.

    Hope that makes sense
    Lyle
    I believe if you do the math then you can average about 30 grams of muscle per day assuming you are making optimal gains every month (~2 lbs of muscle per month = ~907 g). Since about 1/4 of that is contractile protein you can gain about 7-8 grams of muscle (dry weight).

    The recommendation to consume a 500 calorie surplus is for those people who can make optimal gains. It also assumes half of the weight you gain will be fat since no one gains pure muscle when they lift. From what I've gathered on these forums 100-150 would be a decent recommendation for females while males could shoot for a 250-300 calorie surplus and do well with a leaner bulk. I don't know many people that are going to be that accurate with their caloric input especially when caloric burn varies so much day to day. IMO shooting for 2-3 lbs of weight gain per month is optimal for most males and avoids a fulk while females should aim for half of that.
    Last edited by sawoobley; 12-29-2012 at 09:12 AM.
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    Thread backfire
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    do u even lift? ven33's Avatar
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    Why would you listen to anything Ian has to say anyways?
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    Originally Posted by ven33 View Post
    Why would you listen to anything Ian has to say anyways?
    cuz he read a book
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    do u even lift? ven33's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by snrygo View Post
    cuz he read a book
    And he has the internets.
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    Originally Posted by ven33 View Post
    And he has the internets.
    and the virginities
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    Originally Posted by cutNhardR View Post
    Ian Mcarthy says natties can only synthesize about 12g muscle a day.
    Obviously he's incorrect as everyone knows you can only synthesize about 0.42 ounces of muscle a day.
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    Originally Posted by ven33 View Post
    Why would you listen to anything Ian has to say anyways?
    Really dude? This is the best you could come up with? This is the epitome of your intelligence? You mean you actually typed that out, and then said: "Yup, I'm posting this."?
    "There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. "
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    Originally Posted by ven33 View Post
    Why would you listen to anything Ian has to say anyways?
    Personal contempt should never come in the way of taking in more knowledge.

    You don't like Ian. Understandable. But that doesn't mean everything he says is BS. He is quite scientifically intelligent in the fields he discusses and one should not disregard information due to personal contempt or a simple dislike of character.
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    Originally Posted by WonderPug View Post
    Obviously he's incorrect as everyone knows you can only synthesize about 0.42 ounces of muscle a day.
    Wrong. Anyone who knows anything about anything knows that you can only gain 0.0264555 pounds of muscle per day.

    It's just common sense.
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    thats like 10 pounds of muscle a year. for someone not in their 1st or 2nd year of training that is ALOT.
    You are not a fragile ornament ready to collapse into an exhausted mass of goo simply because you squatted more than once in a 7-day week.

    It'd be like preparing your entire life to bang 100 chicks in a row, getting tan, hitting the gym, making sure your hair looks right and reading the Kama Sutra, only to realize when you get there that you're gay and cannot get hard in the presence of women.
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