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  1. #1
    Registered User bboyjihad's Avatar
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    Lifting while fasting

    During intermittent fasting (IF), it is recommended to train/lift while fasting and eat 1-2 hours after training.
    My question is WHY?
    If I train while fasting I have little energy and most importantly, I feel weak as hell! Which means I can't lift as heavy as I could had I eaten a meal/gobbled a banana/etc, then hit the gym.
    Also, I understand that after a hard workout your body is starving for nutrients (hence why i down a protein shake as i'm walking out of the gym).
    So wouldn't it make sense to eat as soon as possible after training???

    Why is it more important to train while fasting???
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  2. #2
    Registered User astigos's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bboyjihad View Post
    During intermittent fasting (IF), it is recommended to train/lift while fasting and eat 1-2 hours after training.
    My question is WHY?
    If I train while fasting I have little energy and most importantly, I feel weak as hell! Which means I can't lift as heavy as I could had I eaten a meal/gobbled a banana/etc, then hit the gym.
    Also, I understand that after a hard workout your body is starving for nutrients (hence why i down a protein shake as i'm walking out of the gym).
    So wouldn't it make sense to eat as soon as possible after training???

    Why is it more important to train while fasting???
    I train while fasted all the time and I prefer it to training fed. The scientific basis, from what I understand, is that training fasted is more beneficial than training fed because the fed state is a rested state and the fasted state is a "search for food/hunting" state and you should actually have more energy. I always feel sluggish and bogged down when training fed.

    Originally Posted by Martin Berkhan, Top Ten Fasting Myths Debunked
    Seemingly paradoxical, metabolic rate is actually increased in short-term fasting. For some concrete numbers, studies have shown an increase of 3.6% - 10% after 36-48 hours (Mansell PI, et al, and Zauner C, et al). This makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. Epinephrine and norepinephrine (adrenaline/noradrenaline) sharpens the mind and makes us want to move around. Desirable traits that encouraged us to seek for food, or for the hunter to kill his prey, increasing survival. At some point, after several days of no eating, this benefit would confer no benefit to survival and probably would have done more harm than good; instead, an adaptation that favored conservation of energy turned out to be advantageous. Thus metabolic rate is increased in short-term fasting (up to 60 hours).
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2405717
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10837292
    Some people just don't want to hear the simplicity of it all, because then there's no excuse when they fail.
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  3. #3
    Registered User bboyjihad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by astigos View Post
    I train while fasted all the time and I prefer it to training fed. The scientific basis, from what I understand, is that training fasted is more beneficial than training fed because the fed state is a rested state and the fasted state is a "search for food/hunting" state and you should actually have more energy. I always feel sluggish and bogged down when training fed.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2405717
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10837292
    Interesting but the study suggests that training after 36-48 hours of fasting would be beneficial but I only fast for 18 hours so do you think I would get the same benefits???
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    Astigos nailed it.

    I ALWAYS train fasted. It feels great, tons of energy and can lift heavy a fuk. Fed I feel tired and sluggish.

    However my training buddy has diabetes and has to have food before lifting or he gets dizzy.
    Obviously do what works best for you
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  5. #5
    Registered User astigos's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bboyjihad View Post
    Interesting but the study suggests that training after 36-48 hours of fasting would be beneficial but I only fast for 18 hours so do you think I would get the same benefits???
    You're face is so close that you can't see the forest for the trees. Don't start nitpicking what constitutes a fasted state and a fed state. Just train when you are able to train, it's really not that big of a deal at all. I highly doubt the most successful bodybuilders and powerlifters practiced IF anyway, which would go to show you that fasted training isn't what makes people great.

    You certainly could try Eat, Stop, Eat (36/12) fasting if you REALLY (rolls eyes) want to train with your maximum metabolic rate. I've never tried 36/12 fasting but I imagine it would be difficult.
    Some people just don't want to hear the simplicity of it all, because then there's no excuse when they fail.
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  6. #6
    Registered User dcmaggio's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bboyjihad View Post
    Interesting but the study suggests that training after 36-48 hours of fasting would be beneficial but I only fast for 18 hours so do you think I would get the same benefits???
    Both studies had sample sizes of 11.

    Which statistically makes them completely and utterly useless.

    Not to mention the one is like 22 years old and the other 12, which makes them outdated as well.
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  7. #7
    Registered Nurse vismal's Avatar
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    Let's try and clear some things up. Fasted training is not inherently better then training fed. Some people prefer to train fasted. I am one of them. If however you train better after eating then by all means EAT! Afterall, two of the 4 meal plans Martin lays out at leangains.com involve a pretraining meal. Furthermore, it doesn't matter if you drink a protein shake as you walk out of the gym or wait 2 hours to eat. What counts are your macro nutrient totals for the day. Leangains is about flexibility and you guys are trying to make it rigid. Just do whatever works best.
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  8. #8
    Registered User astigos's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dcmaggio View Post
    Both studies had sample sizes of 11.

    Which statistically makes them completely and utterly useless.

    Not to mention the one is like 22 years old and the other 12, which makes them outdated as well.
    I agree. However you can take from this that two separate studies 10 years apart both found similar results.

    Originally Posted by vismal View Post
    Let's try and clear some things up. Fasted training is not inherently better then training fed. Some people prefer to train fasted. I am one of them. If however you train better after eating then by all means EAT! Afterall, two of the 4 meal plans Martin lays out at leangains.com involve a pretraining meal. Furthermore, it doesn't matter if you drink a protein shake as you walk out of the gym or wait 2 hours to eat. What counts are your macro nutrient totals for the day. Leangains is about flexibility and you guys are trying to make it rigid. Just do whatever works best.
    Everybody's right! Group high five! Go team!
    Some people just don't want to hear the simplicity of it all, because then there's no excuse when they fail.
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    Training completely fasted is detrimental, Martin Berkhan recommends atleast 10g of BCAA's pre-workout. The pre-workout protein intake, with its stimulatory effect on protein synthesis and metabolism, is a crucial compromise to optimize results.
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    Registered User dcmaggio's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by astigos View Post
    I agree. However you can take from this that two separate studies 10 years apart both found similar results.


    Everybody's right! Group high five! Go team!
    But its a bad study, so its results are irrelevant.

    And the one study had them hooked up to an IV giving them epinephrine.

    So unless you walk around with an IV in your arm, the results probably arent exactly applicable to you.

    Plus how many studies were there that suggested no difference ?

    I mean you could of had 2 studies 10 years apart that said the same thing, but 100 others that said something different.

    You either got to go with a statistically relevant properly designed study with proper controls, or a metaanalysis.

    Not to mention I dont see any control groups, which is really damn important.
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