AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part III

[FitBeyondForty]

I agree.

"Ballparking" your calories is a waste of time. Completely.

You are talking about a difference of 800 calories. That's a huge gap.

I am nearing the end of my cut and am eating 2000 cals a day. Once done I will move back to maintenance. I will prob start a clean bulk late summer.

Not knowing how much you are eating could really be hindering your progress.

[FalseShadow]

I CANT stop doing the deadlifts But I do not do squats and deadlifts on the same day anymore. No have not counted calories specifically, but I am getting at least 2000-3000 per day.

A ballpark estimate:

Usually Cereal Nuts and Berries, a Protien Shake (full fat milk and yogurt), 700-1000
then a sandwich and bananna, 300-400
whatever is leftover(Spaghetti, chicken and rice, etc). 400-600
Then dinner I ususal grab something, a large salad (with meat), and usually another protien shake or a fruit pie, unless I am off work and I usuually cook or have a cooked meal(produces the leftovers), dinner last night was salad, 2 prokchops, sweet potato, collard greens and bread....800-1000

total 2200-3000

Sometimes the morning starts with eggs bacon and pancakes instead...

If you could see what I eat and how much of it you might wonder more whether I was eating too much.

You're 3 inches taller and 40 pounds heavier and you are eating less than me. I eat 3000 EVERY DAY. I think the fact that you have no idea how much you are eating will definitely hold you back whatever your goals are. If you want to bulk, you definitely need to eat more. If you want to maintain, 2200 calories is definitely not enough.. If you want to lose weight, you shouldn't be hitting 3000 cals one day and 2200 cals the next.

When people give a range of how much they eat they should say something like 2800-3000 cals per day. Not 2200-3000 cals a day or 1000-4000 cals a day lol. At that point the range is meaningless, you're just basically eating some random amount, and you don't really know what that amount is. I'm having trouble bulking well when I KNOW how much I'm eating. I can't imagine how counterproductive it is when you have no idea.

[Subaruski]

Damn. I've been eating at a surplus since mid November and I feel like I'm getting fat. The pants certainly are getting tighter around the waist. I haven't been too choosy on the calories I'm putting in my body... Then again, I haven't done much on the off days. Are you doing cardio on your off days and if so how much?

Nice job by the way.

I cut cardio out completely as I'm having a tough time putting on weight. Will start cardio again in March/May 2013.

[EddieFromEurope]

hi, i'm on week 4 cycle 1. I can ca. benchpress 1.2 times my weight, and squat 1.3 times it. I got a retty flat upperchest. How can i tweak this program for better upper chest development?

btw, got suggested hammer grip incline dumbel presses at the end of the routine the next cycle. Good or bad idea?

thanks

Exactly what I said in one post - this routine will make you have NO upper chest.

[Eric90XJ]

Completed my C1W5 heavy day yesterday (12 rep) and passed them all! Only thing is that I learned my barbell only weighs about 33 lbs and I was thinking it was a true 45lb bar so I basically get to move up to the weight I thought I had been doing all along. Sigh. A little disappointing but it's still progress, it doesn't change the fact that I'm getting stronger.

One thing I am considering is retesting my curl. I think I could do much more than I am now, I really breezed through it. All the weight for my other lifts seem good. Any reason why I shouldn't do this?

[Eric90XJ]

Exactly what I said in one post - this routine will make you have NO upper chest.

Might help to bring the bar closer to your throat on your bench press? Perhaps mid way between nips and throat?

[EddieFromEurope]

Might help to bring the bar closer to your throat on your bench press? Perhaps mid way between nips and throat?

Yes, you could also do the guillotine press, but that wouldn't count as bench press anymore imo.
I am pressing from the middle of my chest at the moment, but I'll try bringing it up.

[frenchy72]

Exactly what I said in one post - this routine will make you have NO upper chest.

C'mon Ed...

Didn't I see you were on C1W4? You think that's enough time to quantify any gains?

[marius42]

Exactly what I said in one post - this routine will make you have NO upper chest.

but If i add the incline hammer grip dumbell presses, wouldn't that improve the growth of my upper chest? and by adding it to the end, not affect my other lifts?

[EddieFromEurope]

but If i add the incline hammer grip dumbell presses, wouldn't that improve the growth of my upper chest? and by adding it to the end, not affect my other lifts?

All pro says you can add it as the last excercise, so I guess it won't affect your lifts for that day and shouldn't for the other days. Unless you're a total beginner that never lifted before.
For me it didn't affect any of the lifts. When I first started lifting I wasn't doing any inclines but later I added incline dumbbell presses and it was fine.

Was doing back/bis, chest/tris, leg/shoulder split before this one.

[ngtvenfnty]

You're 3 inches taller and 40 pounds heavier and you are eating less than me. I eat 3000 EVERY DAY. I think the fact that you have no idea how much you are eating will definitely hold you back whatever your goals are. If you want to bulk, you definitely need to eat more. If you want to maintain, 2200 calories is definitely not enough.. If you want to lose weight, you shouldn't be hitting 3000 cals one day and 2200 cals the next.

When people give a range of how much they eat they should say something like 2800-3000 cals per day. Not 2200-3000 cals a day or 1000-4000 cals a day lol. At that point the range is meaningless, you're just basically eating some random amount, and you don't really know what that amount is. I'm having trouble bulking well when I KNOW how much I'm eating. I can't imagine how counterproductive it is when you have no idea.

I dissagree Shaddow.
First, there is a huge difference between my range of 2200 to 3000 per day, and your exaggeration of 1000-4000 per day.
Second, it is an estimate. It is saying my calories probably fall somewhere between these two extremes. It does NOT say that my calories fluctuate wildly between these two extremes. I do know how much I am eating, I am well aware of the relative caloric densities of many foods, and I read labels. A 200 or 300 calories difference in estimation is not a great amount, its an extra helping of rice.
Third, the exact number of calories you consume daily is not so important, what matters is the average number you eat over a week or so. If you eat less one day and more then next, this is not such a big deal as long as it is not too extreme. Your body is not some fragile machine that breaks down the moment your calories drop below some arbitrary threshold.
Lastly, i am not bulking, nor an I cutting. I think these concepts are blatantly fallacious and banally ridiculous. Marketing buzz words used to sell tubs of powder. For a guy like me with a few extra lbs around the midsection, my "cut deficit" was introduced the moment I picked up the bar and my BMR increased from the compound lifting. I am gaining and developing muscle, I am losing fat. This is all that matters. Your body knows what to do with itself, and if you go from not lifting to lifting it must change something in order to stay in equilibrium. I, and noone else just beginning a lifiting routine, are ANYWHERE near needing to fine tune their calories intake in order to "bulk". To lose weight perhaps, if you need to lose quite a bit of weight, but not to gain muscle unless you are sickly thin and don't eat anything.

[ngtvenfnty]

My maintenance is 2500 cals and I have a non physical job and am about the same height and weight as you. If you are working physically hard five days a week you would prob need above 3000 cals for someone of your activity levels. Take the time to count your cals and and increase it by 100 per week and see if you cope better.

Ill give it a shot. I am not sure where else I can stick the extra food though No one has ever had to goad me to the plate, I love to eat. Sometimes I step back from the plate bloated and full. I eat allot of food. I do have a resistance to the idea of eating more in that regard.

[ngtvenfnty]

I agree.

"Ballparking" your calories is a waste of time. Completely.

You are talking about a difference of 800 calories. That's a huge gap.

I am nearing the end of my cut and am eating 2000 cals a day. Once done I will move back to maintenance. I will prob start a clean bulk late summer.

Not knowing how much you are eating could really be hindering your progress.

I don't think it a waste of time FB40. I think it is more efficient to learn the relative caloric weight of things and ballpark it. As I said, more some days, less the next, no big deal. If my calories ever get as low as 2200, it is probably once a month on a day sitting around the house.

[MrSlippery]

but If i add the incline hammer grip dumbell presses, wouldn't that improve the growth of my upper chest? and by adding it to the end, not affect my other lifts?

Exactly that's why I suggested to you a while back to add it to the end of the routine. For now just do one set and see how you feel, I am adding them starting next cycle as well.

[wckdrbl]

Hey, guys. I just finished Cycle 5, Week 3, Day 2 and I have to say that this cycle has been nearly impossible for me to get all my reps in. Should I just run through and repeat this cycle until I can pass all my lifts or should I drop the wieght? My heavy lifts are listed below:

Squat 200
Bench 180
Bent Over Rows 145
Overhead Press 115
Stiff Leg Deadlift 145
Barbell Curl 80
Calf Raises 200

So for example: last cycle I was squaring 180 like a boss for both worksets of 12. Now I'm having a difficult time getting 8 for both sets. I wonder if its because I increased 20lbs. Should I just increase 10 and start the Cycle over? My goal is to continuely increase the wieght - don't really care how long it takes.

This morning for my medium day I squated 185 worksets for 10 then 7...

[FitBeyondForty]

I don't think it a waste of time FB40. I think it is more efficient to learn the relative caloric weight of things and ballpark it. As I said, more some days, less the next, no big deal. If my calories ever get as low as 2200, it is probably once a month on a day sitting around the house.

Having an 800 calorie per day variance will have an effect on weight loss / weight gain and performance. I don't see how it couldn't. Very small gains may still be possible, but no where near as much as he could see with better tracking.

With a variance like that you're talking about a 5600 calorie weekly variance. That's huge.

Now having a 200-300 a day variance would prob not make a huge difference. I know I am sometimes off by 200 or so.

On the days I don't eat close to my 2000 cals, my workout suffers.

Again "ballparking" is fine, but not when the difference is that much.

[syncmaster913n]

Hey, guys. I just finished Cycle 5, Week 3, Day 2 and I have to say that this cycle has been nearly impossible for me to get all my reps in. Should I just run through and repeat this cycle until I can pass all my lifts or should I drop the wieght? My heavy lifts are listed below:

Squat 200
Bench 180
Bent Over Rows 145
Overhead Press 115
Stiff Leg Deadlift 145
Barbell Curl 80
Calf Raises 200

So for example: last cycle I was squaring 180 like a boss for both worksets of 12. Now I'm having a difficult time getting 8 for both sets. I wonder if its because I increased 20lbs. Should I just increase 10 and start the Cycle over? My goal is to continuely increase the wieght - don't really care how long it takes.

This morning for my medium day I squated 185 worksets for 10 then 7...

Based on what you are saying, my guess would be not enough carbs in your diet (particularly the case if you are cutting).

[alacriTEA]

C2W1D2 complete...

[Eric90XJ]

Yes, you could also do the guillotine press, but that wouldn't count as bench press anymore imo.
I am pressing from the middle of my chest at the moment, but I'll try bringing it up.

I wasn't suggesting holding the bar right over the throat. Mid chest I think is best, having the weight directly over the bulk of the chest. Many experienced bodybuilders will say that a beginner should not worry about lacking in certain areas as you will fill out as you gain. It could just be you are genetically inclined to have that shape. I wouldn't worry too much, unless you have been doing this for a while and have seen a definitive development in just your lower chest and nowhere else.

[DeltaCharlie75]

Ill give it a shot. I am not sure where else I can stick the extra food though No one has ever had to goad me to the plate, I love to eat. Sometimes I step back from the plate bloated and full. I eat allot of food. I do have a resistance to the idea of eating more in that regard.

If you like peanut butter, a tea spoonful amount is about 100 cals depending on the brand. Easy enough to fit it in at the end of the day.

[wckdrbl]

Based on what you are saying, my guess would be not enough carbs in your diet (particularly the case if you are cutting).

Well, I've gained 20lbs since switching to this program, but I figured it was because I cut down on my cardio. I was maintaining my weight at 170-175 for over a year. Now I'm pushing 190-195 and I don't want to get back to 200. I tend to put weight on my face and midsection first . So since i noticed that I've been gaining weight I totally stopped eating before the gym and I've also stopped taking my protien and creatine. I guess I should start back eating better and taking my protien. I'm just deathly afraid to tip that scale to 200. I would like to be 175 lean and cut.

[ngtvenfnty]

With a variance like that you're talking about a 5600 calorie weekly variance. That's huge.

I am certain that it is not that large of a difference though. I do not regularly eat 2200 nor 3000 calories. In reality is is closer to 2500-2800, but I am sure there are some days when I do eat at the extremes. Typically I eat more on workout days than non workout days, and a hearty meal in the evening before a workout.

Using a height weight calculator saying 5 days per week exercise, though I could probably say 7 due to my job. I find my maintenance is 2800 and my weight loss target is 2200. My weight has been flat for 3 or 4 months, so on average I MUST be consuming close to the maintenance requirement. I do not want to lose WEIGHT, or gain it. I want to transform into 205 lbs of muscle, and for now it seems eating like I do is sufficient as I am seeing the kinds of changes I want. I really do not think the lack of energy is due to a lack of food. I think it is overworking. I don't see why an extra day between workouts should be a problem. It throws the scheduling off, but this is a minor adjustment, and I get to go into each workout swinging with max power.

[ngtvenfnty]

If you like peanut butter, a tea spoonful amount is about 100 cals depending on the brand. Easy enough to fit it in at the end of the day.

Funny, I thought about doing that last night before bed. I will make it a nightly treat.

[makeitright]

So I'm a lot more of a newb than I imagined I would be, haha. I went to the gym for the first time yesterday and met with a personal trainer for a free session for signing up. I had every intention of testing my 10 rep max, but I went through most of the lifts in here and honestly didn't have much of a clue what I was doing. My form and technique definitely needs work according to him and I agree. I'm going back to meet with him tomorrow and probably one more time this weekend (free sessions). Would it be advisable just to take these next two sessions to really get a feel for the lifts and equipment before trying to find my 10 rep max next week?

On the plus side, I felt absolutely awesome even after lifting what I'm guessing were really light weights. I came home and my arms were still shaking and felt like jello but I had a lot of energy. Ate a big lunch and felt even better. I'm really excited to go again tomorrow.

Anyone have any input they could give?

[piroxeno]

Anyone have any input they could give?

There's no hurry, if you think that you will benefit from a week before finding the 10RM I don't think anyone would tell you otherwise xD.

Just don't worry, calculate your max properly (very important to do it counting only reps with proper form) and you will see that the progression is pretty nice. After the first two weeks and even if your form gets worse in the heavy days, you still have medium and light days to really focus and practice. And if you fail heavy day 5th week, no big deal, it probably meant bad 10RM calculation and you just repeat it next cycle until your strength catches up.

[Eric90XJ]

Well, I've gained 20lbs since switching to this program, but I figured it was because I cut down on my cardio. I was maintaining my weight at 170-175 for over a year. Now I'm pushing 190-195 and I don't want to get back to 200. I tend to put weight on my face and midsection first . So since i noticed that I've been gaining weight I totally stopped eating before the gym and I've also stopped taking my protien and creatine. I guess I should start back eating better and taking my protien. I'm just deathly afraid to tip that scale to 200. I would like to be 175 lean and cut.

If you are gaining fat too quickly it's likely because you are eating too many calories. I had the same problem before, where I was just stuffing my face. Scale back the cals, definitely don't stop the protein.

[Grailer]

Did light day , some of the exercises i didnt use 10rm because i wanted to get form good first like SLDL .

Didnt read anywhere about increasing reps mid cycle so on last set i just rep til fail or 20 reps

Is it ok to do this or will it cause my muscles to explode?

[FitBeyondForty]

Anyone have any input they could give?

Definately get your form down before you try to push your max weight.

Not using proper form and lifting heavy weights to failure is asking for an injury.

Take some time and get used to the movements and get the form right.

It's not like it is a waste of time, you'll still be lifting

Here is a link to how to do each one. The one for bent over rows is my personal fav

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8FAF74A332E11464


Good luck.

[Desparado]

all pro
Powerbuilder
Location: New York, United States
Age: 57
Posts: 20,179
Rep Power: 8311

Originally Posted by PILGOR-THE-GOAT
I'm planning on starting this program next week... I am a college student who works construction 3 times a week. Will recovery be an issue for me? Farley? All Pro?

I wasn't going to get into how to take this to the next level BUT......
1) drop the middle work out and do TWO HEAVY work outs per week if and when recovery becomes an issue.
2) At that point you might want to do THREE work sets for the compound exercises.

The above advice was from All pro and is similar to ngtvenfty situation.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...4195843&page=4

Read the ENTIRE post. You've conveniently left out the part where he said recovery working out 3 days a week should NOT be a problem because of the way it was constructed (Heavy, Medium, Light). Also, if you read very carefully he said "NEXT LEVEL" meaning PAST beginner's stage. Please refer to the VERY FIRST page of this thread under FAQ (Q14) where Tential summed up most often asked questions. You don' have to look very far.

[tbo27]

Did light day , some of the exercises i didnt use 10rm because i wanted to get form good first like SLDL .

Didnt read anywhere about increasing reps mid cycle so on last set i just rep til fail or 20 reps

Is it ok to do this or will it cause my muscles to explode?

Probably explode.

Also, just kidding. But don't do that. You're not meant to train to failure on this program.