AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part III

[GB9]

I'm a beginner when it comes to lifting, never been to the gym to do weights before.

I've obviously been misinformed as I thought I'd have to lose weight with cardio first, and then start lifiting. Read this by Josef Rakich 'trying to lose body fat and build muscle at the same time is 2 steps forward, and 2 steps back' hope I quoted him correctly...

[Jimmer74]

I'm a beginner when it comes to lifting, never been to the gym to do weights before.

I've obviously been misinformed as I thought I'd have to lose weight with cardio first, and then start lifiting. Read this by Josef Rakich 'trying to lose body fat and build muscle at the same time is 2 steps forward, and 2 steps back' hope I quoted him correctly...

You lose weight by being in a calorie deficit. By lifting weights whilst you're in deficit, you'll tell your body to hang onto the muscle and lose the fat instead. Severely de-trained people who have a lot of fat to lose seem to be able to lose fat and build a modest bit of muscle at the same time, however I think this is an individual thing and doesn't seem to work for everyone. YMMV. By lifting while you're in deficit, you'll not only have the advantage of keeping most of your existing underlying muscle mass, but you'll make that muscle mass have greater neuromuscular efficiency - you'll basically teach your nerve fibres to activate more of the muscle when you use it and become a ****load stronger in the process.

If you just did cardio and no weights, your body would be quite happy to sacrifice muscle tissue and bone density over fat tissue. Muscle is metabolically expensive for the body to maintain, whilst fat can see you through lean times or famines, so has that biological advantage.

Long story short, lift weights, eat at deficit, lose fat, get stronger, profit!

[tontyx]

^^^ Reply to the above 2:
In my first three months of workout, I lost 14 kilos of Body fat and gained 4 Kilos of Lean muscle. I was eating proteins mostly and had cut down on fats and carbs during that time. I was doing weights and Cardio. Weights followed by Cardio, all done with the maximum intensity. I was trying to beat my previous days record on everything. Like More speed and incline on the treadmill, more resistance on the bike.. Everyday. My goal was to burn more calories per 5 mins or 10 minutes than yesterday. On the weights, I tried to increase the reps or weight.. Weight wasn't much though. See first page of my log for the story :-)

I had a huge mid section and I guess that is what was lost..

[GB9]

Many thanks for the advice, it's much appreciated.

[Jimmer74]

Many thanks for the advice, it's much appreciated.

All you need to know is that consistency, hard work and patience will pay off. And this is a great routine to do on a cut and has some pretty nice, helpful people doing it!

[Jimmer74]

Hey on the subject of adding lifts - I've just finished cycle 3 and was thinking of adding something. I'm not really sure what though.....

I remember seeing that other people have added various stuff like: barbell shrugs, upright rows, inclined db hammer press. The only thing I've failed so far was OHP, so I'm not really sure where I should go.

I have considered making a more drastic change and putting regular deads instead of squats on medium day - however, I thought I'd wait a couple more cycles before trying that.

Basically, what assistance exercises have peeps added and how did you get on with them. Would love to hear some feedback!

[Electrophoresis]

Tried calculating my 10RM's yesterday, first time ever lifting.

Was pretty much a fail, I added too little weight at first and by the time I found my 'max's, I was already very tired, so I don't know if they count or not. I'll head back tomorrow or Friday to re-calculate, at least now with some idea of what I should be able to lift.

[Jimmer74]

Tried calculating my 10RM's yesterday, first time ever lifting.

Was pretty much a fail, I added too little weight at first and by the time I found my 'max's, I was already very tired, so I don't know if they count or not. I'll head back tomorrow or Friday to re-calculate, at least now with some idea of what I should be able to lift.

Give yourself a couple of day to recovers. Re-test each lift after a single warm-up set with the ballpark weight you ended up with the other day. This'll give you better numbers to plug into the RM calculator - You'll probably end up with something pretty accurate to start the first cycle with.....

[PerfectCreature]

Tried calculating my 10RM's yesterday, first time ever lifting.

Was pretty much a fail, I added too little weight at first and by the time I found my 'max's, I was already very tired, so I don't know if they count or not. I'll head back tomorrow or Friday to re-calculate, at least now with some idea of what I should be able to lift.

I recalculated mine several times before I found my max reps. They were pretty low so do not fret. They get harder as you do the workout (because you get tired), so as long as you test the maxes in the order that it is listed, you should be fine. To be honest, I am still not sure if a couple of my workouts 10rms were calculated right as I am struggling so much with some, versus others....
Good luck, and make sure to make a workout log so we can track your progress and see those beastly gains!

[GB9]

I forgot to ask: should I be taking a protein shake If I start this routine?

[PerfectCreature]

I forgot to ask: should I be taking a protein shake If I start this routine?

You should head over to the Nutrient section of the forum. There are a few 'stickies' (threads at the top of the page) that will provide you with a wealth of knowledge to get optimum results.
Specifically, visit this thread first. (Below)
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121703981

Then if you still have questions, you can post another thread in the nutrition forum for some assistance, as to not get this thread cluttered with nutrient questions, as apposed to workout questions.

[GarbageJedi]

Hey on the subject of adding lifts - I've just finished cycle 3 and was thinking of adding something. I'm not really sure what though.....

I remember seeing that other people have added various stuff like: barbell shrugs, upright rows, inclined db hammer press. The only thing I've failed so far was OHP, so I'm not really sure where I should go.

I have considered making a more drastic change and putting regular deads instead of squats on medium day - however, I thought I'd wait a couple more cycles before trying that.


Basically, what assistance exercises have peeps added and how did you get on with them. Would love to hear some feedback!

I added dead hang pull ups. Mostly because I could never do them before and I feel boss being able to do them now. Still working up to respectable numbers but its still more than 0. 2x5 then as many on 3rd set as I can ( usually 6 or 7). I also only do them on medium and light days. On heavy days I can't even lift my arms above my head when I'm done.

[Jonesman59]

If I am in a surplus would changing the light day to another medium day so: Heavy-Medium-Medium be too much for recovery? I actually came from Icecream fitness 5x5 so I am use to that volume. Let me know your thoughts. I am mainly asking because it seems like many people are doing this program in a deficit or they are coming off of a break from lifting.

[GarbageJedi]

That is Sick Man...

What was your starting stat?

And you SLDL more than you squat m8?
Also, Do you go till parallel on all 12 reps? My hips would break at that weight and rep range

Also what program were you doing before this?

I will assume that you started your squat at 215 --> 195 --> 180? My current 10 RM is about 210 but I am on 5X5 so 180 should be about right, as my body will lose some strength when I stop the 5X5

SO it looks like I should think about starting this soon. But problem is that I have never attempted that heavy SLDL. I only do about 150 at most for 8-10 reps otherwise my hips gets a lot of strain..

My OHP is also bad. I am not sure if I can do 10 reps on 90, without some leg push at the last few reps. Will have to calculate. But BOR, I can easily do 130 for 10 now.. as my working set for 5X5 is about 150.

Very tempting to start now. I am on a 5X5 to squeeze out as much strength as possible before I start doing a cut with the Allpro. Looking at your stat, I think I am ready.. But Man, that SLDL, that is impressive. Have you always trained SLDL earlier?

Was a competition power lifter in high school and stayed with the lifting in first couple years of college then I took a 15 year break on fitness and gained 60-70 lbs. I started losing weight in May of last year with just diet and cardio. I started to lose muscle quickly. When the holidays came I wanted to be able to eat so I figured I would start lifting again. I did Stoppani's 12 weeks to size. Jan I started cutting again and was recommended All Pro's. When I started the program I was 221 lbs ....
Squat 235
Bench 155
BOR 95
OHP 95
SLDL 185
Curls 95
Calves 215

Near the end of the first cycle my right knee started bothering me due to and old injury and atrophy so I dropped the weight to 170lbs. Dr. told me not to go parallel or lower so I stayed light and went as low as I could without pain. By the end of the next cycle I was below parallel again with no pain. As for the SLDL I do more of a Romanian. This stops the movement with the bar just below the knee and stops the back before it rounds like in normal SLDL. I find I can get more of a hamstring workout by not worring about my back.

[tontyx]

As for the SLDL I do more of a Romanian. This stops the movement with the bar just below the knee and stops the back before it rounds like in normal SLDL. I find I can get more of a hamstring workout by not worring about my back.

SO you must keep your legs really stiff then or you unlock your knees?
I understand what you are saying about the Hamstring though.

And knee pian can such a bummer. I stalled my 5X5 today on 255. My last workout of 250 was so very easy, but today I couldn't even do the first set due to a sudden funny feeling at the knee. I F**ked it up during my initial days on the smith Machine Half squats. I thought it had gone away after I corrected my form and progressed all the way to 250. I want to take it at least 315 or 3 plates on a 5X5 or at least 3X5. Let us see..

[Jimmer74]

I added dead hang pull ups. Mostly because I could never do them before and I feel boss being able to do them now. Still working up to respectable numbers but its still more than 0. 2x5 then as many on 3rd set as I can ( usually 6 or 7). I also only do them on medium and light days. On heavy days I can't even lift my arms above my head when I'm done.

I actually started with dead hang pull up for the first 2 cycles (where I was eating at surplus) because I did them a lot before starting on this. I was already doing them Pavel-style (dead hang, chest to bar, false grip, pulling elbows into lats). I took them out for this last cycle due to going on a cut and not wanting to mess up the main lifts. I'm not sure whether to add them back in, or go with something else....... thanks for the advice! Something to mull over......

[holdmetight]

im on the 4th week(11 reps) and failed 2 nd set bench presses i couldnt even manage 10, really surprising because the first set didnt feel any different from the previous weeks.
i was really pissed failing to lift 80lbs is just i dont know

now im wondering how to continue???
i really really dont want to repeat a week.
im thinking i should just skip medium day and instead of light try heavy once again?

[brendanj207]

im on the 4th week(11 reps) and failed 2 nd set bench presses i couldnt even manage 10, really surprising because the first set didnt feel any different from the previous weeks.
i was really pissed failing to lift 80lbs is just i dont know

now im wondering how to continue???
i really really dont want to repeat a week.
im thinking i should just skip medium day and instead of light try heavy once again?

It's ok if you fail during weeks 1-4, the key is to hit your 2 sets of 12 with good form in week 5. Do the rest of your week as normal, eat well, and make sure you get good sleep and try to pass on week 5 test day.

[FitnessFan76]

I forgot to ask: should I be taking a protein shake If I start this routine?

As advised, go give the nutrition stickies a good read but what you need to know about 'protein shakes' is this: if you can hit your daily requirements through real food then protein powder is a waste of money in my opinion. One prominent member here, 'WonderPug' described them as 'processed fast food labelled as supplements'. Food for thought there. I'm not saying it's not worth having a small supply at home if you're struggling to hit your daily requirements for any given day but to take them before and/or after each training session, just because everyone's been conditioned into believing the necessity of doing so, is pointless.

[wannagoheavy]

SO you must keep your legs really stiff then or you unlock your knees?
I understand what you are saying about the Hamstring though.

And knee pian can such a bummer. I stalled my 5X5 today on 255. My last workout of 250 was so very easy, but today I couldn't even do the first set due to a sudden funny feeling at the knee. I F**ked it up during my initial days on the smith Machine Half squats. I thought it had gone away after I corrected my form and progressed all the way to 250. I want to take it at least 315 or 3 plates on a 5X5 or at least 3X5. Let us see..

RDL:

[wannagoheavy]

im on the 4th week(11 reps) and failed 2 nd set bench presses i couldnt even manage 10, really surprising because the first set didnt feel any different from the previous weeks.
i was really pissed failing to lift 80lbs is just i dont know

now im wondering how to continue???
i really really dont want to repeat a week.
im thinking i should just skip medium day and instead of light try heavy once again?

1st set is strength 2nd set is endurance. I have missed reps on weeks 3&4 and still got all 12 both sets. Your endurance will catch up hence the reason for the 90 sec rest instead 3-5 mins.

[Jonesman59]

If I am in a surplus would changing the light day to another medium day so: Heavy-Medium-Medium be too much for recovery? I actually came from Icecream fitness 5x5 so I am use to that volume. Let me know your thoughts. I am mainly asking because it seems like many people are doing this program in a deficit or they are coming off of a break from lifting.

Bump. . . Is this really a bad idea?

[wannagoheavy]

Bump. . . Is this really a bad idea?

yes it is set up as dual factor programming which should include the light day.

Follow as written for 3 cycles at least then if you want to try 2 heavy days.

[mistrvi]

Bump. . . Is this really a bad idea?

i wouldn't do it. You wont have enough time for recovery later. Allpro said you either do 1(Heavy, off, medium, off, light, off, off) or 2 (heavy, off, off, heavy, off, off).

[GKC45]

Bump. . . Is this really a bad idea?

yes it is set up as dual factor programming which should include the light day.

Follow as written for 3 cycles at least then if you want to try 2 heavy days.

By the time you are into three cycles, you wont want to do two heavy days.

[GKC45]

Hey on the subject of adding lifts - I've just finished cycle 3 and was thinking of adding something. I'm not really sure what though.....

I remember seeing that other people have added various stuff like: barbell shrugs, upright rows, inclined db hammer press. The only thing I've failed so far was OHP, so I'm not really sure where I should go.

I have considered making a more drastic change and putting regular deads instead of squats on medium day - however, I thought I'd wait a couple more cycles before trying that.

Basically, what assistance exercises have peeps added and how did you get on with them. Would love to hear some feedback!

I added dumbbell flys, I do them after bench press. I went with the same progression as the rest of the workout- 8 reps, 2 sets at 80% of 10rm for week 1.

[raxorsharp]

So if we want to substitute curls with upright rows we do the rows just before the calf raises (just like the curls) and with 2 sets too right?? And another thing... i'm finding getting the form right on my Bent Over Barbell Rows quite tough. After completing a set, i dont really feel it in my back- could it be that I am pulling with my shoulder and biceps and not my back instead? Plus my lower back feels a little sore... not a very severe pain but on on straightening up after completing the exercise I feel some soreness which disappears after a few minutes.I try to keep my lower back straight throughout the exercise but I cant be sure cos i cant really see it while doing the exercise. The trainers in my gym each give contradicting instructions on how to do the exercise and Im **** confused :P Could it be that my lower back is just weak (I'm a very thin guy) and can't handle the weight (not that its much just around 70lbs or 30kgs including the weight of the bar) or am I seriously damaging it or doing something wrong. I've heard a lot about lower back problems with this exercise so I got a little alarmed after this trend started. I have no history of any back injury or damage at all. Will doing a single hand dumbell row or a seated weighted row be a good substitute for this exercise without compromising my lower back?? Any suggestions?

Bump

[robosphere]

So this morning I went to the gym and worked out my Maximum weights. So hopefully if the Calcs are correct I have my 1 Rep max weights.

So question, What percentage of my 1RM should I use for the first 5 week cycle on this plan?

Should I be taking any supplements to help me along my way? I'll be taking some Whey Protein to top up my Levels, but is CLA or Creatine worth taking at a beginner level? Or any other suggestions. I don't want to spend a fortune on supplements, but happy to look into whats best for me.

If it helps I'll be training early morning, Before Breakfast so, any additional comments re training at this time would be useful.

I know the golden rule with Allpro's plan is don't change it and follow it through but I was going to do 5 or 10 minutes gentle cardio (rowing) before starting to help me wake up before getting into the routine will this be a problem?

So my plan is
Monday Heavy
Tuesday 30-40 Minutes Cardio
Wednesday Medium
Thursday 30-40 Minutes Cardio
Friday Light

Saturday and Sunday relax, with the odd cycle thrown in when the weather is good.

Any comments welcome

Thanks DJT

So, here I told you to post here and someone would answer you, and no one did.

So, lets start.

1. You will actually work with your 10 rm for your heavy day, not a 1rm. Then 90% of your 10rm for medium day and 80% for your light day.

2. You can do what you want, and it's easy to get seduced into supplements, since this is a forum from a supplement-selling website, but you don't need to take any. To start with, figure your goals, and get your diet heading in that direction. If you decide further down the road you need a little extra, or that your diet isn't covering it, THEN worry about supps.

3. Early AM works best for me. I don't know if you're a coffee drinker, but I just eat a banana or a piece of WW Peanut Butter toast and take a giant mug of coffee down to the basement, and that's all the PWO I need.

4. There's nothing wrong with doing some easy cardio to wake/warm yourself up. Go for it.

5. Lots of guys do cardio on their off days. You might want to throw in a little ab-work those days too.

Welcome and Good Luck

[op456]

I finished 3 cycles and stopped 3 weeks ago, then I came back to gym last Sunday, I couldn't lift my old weights .. not even the weights from the 2nd cycle ..

For example I could do Bench Presses with 40kg at the 3rd cycle so I should increase 10% so I will lift 45kg at the 4th cycle, but I could lift 35KG for just 8 reps and it was so hard at my first day after the rest.
Yesterday was my 2nd day but I tried to do a heavy day and try higher weights, then I found the weights are easier than the last Sunday. Should I keep trying to get more weights or start my forth cycle with the weights I can lift now?

Another question : how do I calculate the weights at this exercise ? bodybuilding.com/exercises/detail/view/name/seated-calf-raise only the weights or my body weight too? I play with a d machine as the seat is more forward so I kinda lift my weight + the weights ?

[teaayemmmmwhy]

When and why did medium days get so hard? Im drained after that session

Bed time it is