AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part III

[WFKA]

You can gain strength on a cut but not much muscle unless your very new at lifting.

You will more likely stall with OHP then bench as the pressing movements and upper body seem to stall before lower body stuff.

As to gains it will depend on how big a deficit you are doing and what your macros are. Get enough fat and protein then fill rest of macros with carbs.

Too true. OHP is the only exercise that I am stalling on during my cut.

i'm new to lifting and I've read alot these last days, but I keep getting more confused. I just don't know whether I should cut or bulk. The problem is I want both just like you have done. I wanna lose fat I currently have and also make gains in my muscles. Alot of people say it isn't possible but if you tell me you did it I believe you and that makes me also want to do it that way. Another question I have is, did you do cardio while you were using this work out? and also did you eat more on days that you worked out?

1)If you are obese and have a BF% above 20% (if you are male) or 25% (if you are female); then definitely cut before starting a bulk. The reason why this is is because anything above those two percentages are deemed as being unhealthy and so you will want to be in the healthy range before doing anything else.
2) You have to be patient. Do not expect things to come fast. As a newbie, you will gain muscle mass while cutting as your body adjusts to the workload that you are putting it under.
3) It is only possible for noobs as their bodies adjust. Once you are out of this stage you will need to be in a surplus.
4) Cardio is not necessary at all. As long as you are in a deficit you will lose weight. Cardio training is still necessary for cardiovascular health though.

[syncmaster913n]

Too true. OHP is the only exercise that I am stalling on during my cut.



1)If you are obese and have a BF% above 20% (if you are male) or 25% (if you are female); then definitely cut before starting a bulk. The reason why this is is because anything above those two percentages are deemed as being unhealthy and so you will want to be in the healthy range before doing anything else.
2) You have to be patient. Do not expect things to come fast. As a newbie, you will gain muscle mass while cutting as your body adjusts to the workload that you are putting it under.
3) It is only possible for noobs as their bodies adjust. Once you are out of this stage you will need to be in a surplus.
4) Cardio is not necessary at all. As long as you are in a deficit you will lose weight. Cardio training is still necessary for cardiovascular health though.

Good advice! For the record though, gaining muscle while losing fat is not only for beginner lifters. It can be done by anyone who has a moderate or above-moderate bodyfat (will be different from person to person, but generally speaking if a guy has more than 13-14% BF then they can lose fat and gain muscle at the same time - no clue about women though) - assuming you cut slowly enough.

My guess is that the prevailing notion that only beginner lifters can gain muscle while losing fat stems from the fact that most guys, after getting out of the "beginner" stage, will usually be around (or below) the 13-14% BF mark, making simultaneous muscle gain and fat loss next to impossible (or barely noticeable). A guy can be very advanced though (5+ years of training, and much more), and still do both at the same time if his BF is high enough.

It's called "recomping" of course

[1fatoldman]

i'm new to lifting and I've read alot these last days, but I keep getting more confused. I just don't know whether I should cut or bulk. The problem is I want both just like you have done. I wanna lose fat I currently have and also make gains in my muscles. Alot of people say it isn't possible but if you tell me you did it I believe you and that makes me also want to do it that way. Another question I have is, did you do cardio while you were using this work out? and also did you eat more on days that you worked out?

Gaining muscle on a cut is easy for an overweight noobe, if I had been lifting for year or two before I started the program, it would have been extremely difficult.
I do cardio and abs on Tuesday and Thursday.

[WFKA]

Good advice! For the record though, gaining muscle while losing fat is not only for beginner lifters. It can be done by anyone who has a moderate or above-moderate bodyfat (will be different from person to person, but generally speaking if a guy has more than 13-14% BF then they can lose fat and gain muscle at the same time - no clue about women though) - assuming you cut slowly enough.

My guess is that the prevailing notion that only beginner lifters can gain muscle while losing fat stems from the fact that most guys, after getting out of the "beginner" stage, will usually be around (or below) the 13-14% BF mark, making simultaneous muscle gain and fat loss next to impossible (or barely noticeable). A guy can be very advanced though (5+ years of training, and much more), and still do both at the same time if his BF is high enough.

It's called "recomping" of course

On that topic:

[syncmaster913n]

On that topic:

Good video, though not really sure how it relates to what I said. This video is about bulking, not recomping

[NaberNuri]

Too true. OHP is the only exercise that I am stalling on during my cut.



1)If you are obese and have a BF% above 20% (if you are male) or 25% (if you are female); then definitely cut before starting a bulk. The reason why this is is because anything above those two percentages are deemed as being unhealthy and so you will want to be in the healthy range before doing anything else.
2) You have to be patient. Do not expect things to come fast. As a newbie, you will gain muscle mass while cutting as your body adjusts to the workload that you are putting it under.
3) It is only possible for noobs as their bodies adjust. Once you are out of this stage you will need to be in a surplus.
4) Cardio is not necessary at all. As long as you are in a deficit you will lose weight. Cardio training is still necessary for cardiovascular health though.

- I don't know how much my BF% atm is, but I added some pictures of me. I think I'm under 20%.
- till what % should I be cutting?
- I understand that it will be diffrent for everyone but when approx. will I be out of the 'newbie-zone' and won't lose fat & gain muscle?

thx all for your reactions, it's really really helping me out

[WFKA]

Good video, though not really sure how it relates to what I said. This video is about bulking, not recomping

He talks about the need of surpluses for muscle gain.

- I don't know how much my BF% atm is, but I added some pictures of me. I think I'm under 20%.
- till what % should I be cutting?
- I understand that it will be diffrent for everyone but when approx. will I be out of the 'newbie-zone' and won't lose fat & gain muscle?

thx all for your reactions, it's really really helping me out

1) I'm not very good with estimating. I would probably say something like 22% though. Again, I'm not an expert. Visit this thread to get a more accurate estimate if you wish: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=147321393 or buy a pair of body fat calipers and learn how to measure it yourself.
2) Whatever you want really. I cannot tell you what you want to look like in the end - only you can. If you are still a teen like I am; it is not recommended to continually cut and bulk as during the teenage years your body is developing and needs all of the energy it can get (this is probably why teenagers have faster metabolisms).
3) I honestly do not know. Everyone cuts and bulks though. It is impossible not to gain fat on a proper bulk. This pretty much makes it necessary to cut after a while. As syncmaster913n said, you can still gain muscle when cutting. Of course, this is incredibly slow.

I would add more information, but I am playing LoL at the moment...

[syncmaster913n]

He talks about the need of surpluses for muscle gain.

That he does. Of course you are not going to gain as much muscle on a recomp as you would on a bulk (I don't think I've ever insinuated anything like that). I was only pointing out the fact that "losing weight while gaining muscle" is definitely possible regardless of how much experience one has under their belt. I'm doing it, many guys in the forum with a few years of experience are doing it, even Kelei (lifting since age 6, currently 27) from the Sticky is doing it. It's possible, and some people even find it more convenient than standard cutting/bulking.

[WFKA]

That he does. Of course you are not going to gain as much muscle on a recomp as you would on a bulk (I don't think I've ever insinuated anything like that). I was only pointing out the fact that "losing weight while gaining muscle" is definitely possible regardless of how much experience one has under their belt. I'm doing it, many guys in the forum with a few years of experience are doing it, even Kelei (lifting since age 6, currently 27) from the Sticky is doing it. It's possible, and some people even find it more convenient than standard cutting/bulking.

And I will say that you are right. Many people who go to the gym who do not bother to research the nutritional side will still gain muscle. Of course, it will be a lot slower, and they will give up and complain about their genetics or some other sh*t.

[Jimmer74]

Well, C1 W2 D3 is in the bag - just done my light day.

It's been pretty mellow for me so far - probably helped by the fact I haven't bothered with any cardio since I effed up my toe just before I started the program. But I guess the first two weeks should be pretty mellow, if you're truly pushing your 10RM?

Anyway, can't wait for the first week where I'll be moving my 10RM. I'll know whether I picked the right starting weights in the next couple of weeks, that's for sure!

Hope everyone else is getting some quality lifting in......

[wannagoheavy]

Oh interesting -- I'm just starting cycle 5 now, maybe I'll try this setup for cycle 6 or 7. Good timing as I'm just finishing a cut up right now, so will be just starting a clean bulk by cycle 6, good time to increase volume and weight...

A couple questions though -- when you say do 2 heavy days, do you mean JUST 2 heavy days and take away the medium and light days? And when you say add another working set, do you mean for just squats, bench, rows, and press, or the other exercises too?

Better yet, is there a more detailed write-up of this protocol somewhere?

Thanks! Repped!

no official write up but on pages 101 I believe (either 1st or 2nd thread) or there abouts AP discusses that rep scheme. Add a 3rd set for all exercises.


That is approaching an intermediate program. He called it a novice program vs beginner or intermediate.

If you look at AP intermediate program it is similar but with 2 heavy days with 1st heavy day going for 1x5 then next heavy day you do 3x5 of same weight and if you get all reps add 10 lbs for next week. It all comes down to how the program is set up for progression(reps, weight or sets) and more importantly are the deloads as this beginner has the built in deloads.

It will all come down to whether your CNS can handle the volume. 2 days will give you a lot of recovery time and that 3rd set seems so easy (just 5 more reps)

Try it and see how it goes.

[JayRich1]

Hey Everyone,

Just finished testing my 10 rep maxes. So I am on my way to starting this program. I am definitely out of shape and this will be my first real try and weight training (I did a month or so of GSPs workout before). I have a few questions after figuring out my 10 rep maxes.

1) I am afraid that I tested inaccurately due to maybe cutting off a rep or 2 too soon. Is this okay? Is there anything I should pay attention for when I do my first few weeks of the program? (ex: I did 20 reps of squat (could have maybe done a small amount more). Should I just use this weight amount for 20 reps or add a bit of weight? Or just retest?
2) After the workout, I am feeling the most stress in my legs. I feel a bit of burn in my shoulders, but a lot is in my legs (primarily hamstrings, is this okay? Or am I focusing the weight wrong?
3) I accidentally tested overhead barbell press before bent over rows, is this a big deal? Just want to make sure.
4) Any clue what my barbell may weight? It came with the $100 Marcy weight bench I got. It is 4 feet long and hollow. I definitely think I will be getting something later on, but this will do for the time being.

I am sure more will come to me, but that's what comes to mine at the moment. Thanks for the help and I look forward to continuing!

[Jimmer74]

Hey Everyone,

Just finished testing my 10 rep maxes. So I am on my way to starting this program. I am definitely out of shape and this will be my first real try and weight training (I did a month or so of GSPs workout before). I have a few questions after figuring out my 10 rep maxes.

1) I am afraid that I tested inaccurately due to maybe cutting off a rep or 2 too soon. Is this okay? Is there anything I should pay attention for when I do my first few weeks of the program? (ex: I did 20 reps of squat (could have maybe done a small amount more). Should I just use this weight amount for 20 reps or add a bit of weight? Or just retest?
2) After the workout, I am feeling the most stress in my legs. I feel a bit of burn in my shoulders, but a lot is in my legs (primarily hamstrings, is this okay? Or am I focusing the weight wrong?
3) I accidentally tested overhead barbell press before bent over rows, is this a big deal? Just want to make sure.
4) Any clue what my barbell may weight? It came with the $100 Marcy weight bench I got. It is 4 feet long and hollow. I definitely think I will be getting something later on, but this will do for the time being.

I am sure more will come to me, but that's what comes to mine at the moment. Thanks for the help and I look forward to continuing!

1) You want to pick a weight that you can do 6-12 reps with until your form starts to go south. Then plug the number of reps you managed into one of these online calculators that tell you you 10RM. Remember it's not the amount of reps you can do until you fail..... it's the amount of reps until your form goes south. You could crank out 20 or 30 reps and then try and calculate your 10RM from that, but the further away from 10 Reps your test lays, the less accurate a calculator will probably be for you. In the end, if you feel you have a few more reps in you with good form, then you need to do a few more reps (if it's a lot more reps you need to re-test with a more appropriate weight)

2) I'd give it a day or two and re-test. Sounds from 1 that you may not have pitched your testing weights right. How sore you feel in a particular body part doesn't translate to any really useful information (unless it's an injury - then it's important information!). You can use the information gathered on your first attempt to more accurately gauge your weights and get a better test in. Best to get the test right because it pitches the weight for the whole program

3) Don't think it makes a massive amount of difference - you're really just trying to pitch it so that you're starting close to your 10RM when you actually start the program. I think the best idea though is to follow things as closely as written. It is designed for beginners after all - if you think you have to ask questions on here about changing stuff then you probably shouldn't change anything!

4) Grab your bar and stand on your bathroom scales. Subtract your weight from the total and you've got the weight of your bar....

[WFKA]

Hey Everyone,

Just finished testing my 10 rep maxes. So I am on my way to starting this program. I am definitely out of shape and this will be my first real try and weight training (I did a month or so of GSPs workout before). I have a few questions after figuring out my 10 rep maxes.

1) I am afraid that I tested inaccurately due to maybe cutting off a rep or 2 too soon. Is this okay? Is there anything I should pay attention for when I do my first few weeks of the program? (ex: I did 20 reps of squat (could have maybe done a small amount more). Should I just use this weight amount for 20 reps or add a bit of weight? Or just retest?
2) After the workout, I am feeling the most stress in my legs. I feel a bit of burn in my shoulders, but a lot is in my legs (primarily hamstrings, is this okay? Or am I focusing the weight wrong?
3) I accidentally tested overhead barbell press before bent over rows, is this a big deal? Just want to make sure.
4) Any clue what my barbell may weight? It came with the $100 Marcy weight bench I got. It is 4 feet long and hollow. I definitely think I will be getting something later on, but this will do for the time being.

I am sure more will come to me, but that's what comes to mine at the moment. Thanks for the help and I look forward to continuing!

1) Like Jimmer74 said; your 10 rep max should be the amount of weight you can lift until your form "goes south". Too many people trick themselves into believing that they can lift a lot more by not having proper form and not doing full range of motion along with other things. If you group all of these together, you are more than likely to find a weight that is much more than you can actually use. Use this calculator: http://www.ivannikolov.com/calculato...ax-calculator/ It will find your 10 rep max as long as you do 1-15 reps. Anything above 15 reps and it will not calculate it due to inaccuracy. As a beginner it is much more important to have proper form and learn full range of motion instead of lifting too much and having your form go off.
2) How bad is this stress and burn? Week 1-3 on the first cycle is supposed to be relatively easy. It sounds as if you calculated your 10RM wrongly or your form is waaaaaay off. Either way, you will want to fix this before you potentially injure yourself.
3) It is not that big of a deal to be honest.
4) Surely it should tell you how much the barbell weighs? If not, contact the manufacturer or do a Google search for the product and find out.

[GDPONE]

Ok im kind of a retard when it comes to math so is this right?:

Monday:

Starting weight: 30
Warmup light weight (set 1): 7.5lbs
Warmup medium weight (set 2): 15lbs

Wednesday:

Starting weight: 25
Warmup light weight (set 1): 5lbs
Warmup medium weight (set 2): 12.5lbs

Friday:

Starting weight: 22.5
Warmup light weight (set 1): 5lbs
Warmup medium weight (set 2): 10lbs

I am using the blowflex selecttech 522s so I am having to round up or down a little. But does this look right?

[DeltaCharlie75]

Ok im kind of a retard when it comes to math so is this right?:

Monday:

Starting weight: 30
Warmup light weight (set 1): 7.5lbs
Warmup medium weight (set 2): 15lbs

Wednesday:

Starting weight: 25
Warmup light weight (set 1): 5lbs
Warmup medium weight (set 2): 12.5lbs

Friday:

Starting weight: 22.5
Warmup light weight (set 1): 5lbs
Warmup medium weight (set 2): 10lbs

I am using the blowflex selecttech 522s so I am having to round up or down a little. But does this look right?

Use the warm up weight for the first day for all days.

[WFKA]

Use the warm up weight for the first day for all days.

Are you sure about that? It says on the first post that you should "do a lite warm up with 1/4 of your work sets weight. Do a medium warm up with 1/2 of your work sets weight."

[alacriTEA]

Yup... Warmup stays the same

[WFKA]

Yup... Warmup stays the same

Where does it say that?


http://www.workout-calculator.com/20...ne-by-all-pro/

[DeltaCharlie75]

Are you sure about that? It says on the first post that you should "do a lite warm up with 1/4 of your work sets weight. Do a medium warm up with 1/2 of your work sets weight."

I'm sure.

[DeltaCharlie75]

Where does it say that?


http://www.workout-calculator.com/20...ne-by-all-pro/

Here ya go
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post605708483

Tbh it doesn't really matter as long you do two warm up sets of some sort. The same weight is easier to use through the five week cycle.

[syncmaster913n]

Are you sure about that? It says on the first post that you should "do a lite warm up with 1/4 of your work sets weight. Do a medium warm up with 1/2 of your work sets weight."

It's just a warmup. Originally it was outlined to be 25%/50% of worksets on a given day, later on allpro said it's 25%/50% of your heavy day weight, probably to make things simpler. No biggie, do it either way, whichever is easier and/or more comfortable for you. Back when I was doing this routine I was doing like 4-5 warmup sets for squats - it made me perform better on my worksets than when I only did 2 warmup sets, so why wouldn't I?

Again - these are just warmups.

[mistrvi]

god, really, it's common sense people. You don't use warm up weight from heavy day on your light day. It will be different on heavy, medium and light days.

[DeltaCharlie75]

god, really, it's common sense people. You don't use warm up weight from heavy day on your light day. It will be different on heavy, medium and light days.

Common sense says use the same weight. Why would you change the weight for a warm up when the goal is to pump blood into the muscle to prepare it for lifting. Do your muscles need less warming up because you are lifting less than the day before?

[syncmaster913n]

Personally I think you are both (mistrvi and DeltaCharlie75) reading a bit too much into it at this point. (No offense intended.) I sincerely doubt that there is something magical about the warmup ratios allpro chose - the goal was simply to get ANY kind of warmup in, in order to avoid questions like "so how many warmups should I do and with what weight" and to keep the routine simple, and to minimize the risk of injuries (obviously). The short story, in my opinion, is that you should simply do at least 2 warmup sets with roughly what allpro recommended. If we want to get really specific, then the ideal warmups would have to be "just enough to get you warmed up." Someone might need 5 warmup sets, someone might need only 2, another person might not need any at all, while yet another might need to do one warmup set with even 80% of his worksets for 3-4 reps to get mentally prepared for a heavy lift. What allpro suggested in terms of warmups is imo an ideal amount that will work for most if followed closely enough, but it should not be approached (an treated) as some sort of mathematical equation that will break down if you deviate from it even slightly.

[mistrvi]

Common sense says use the same weight. Why would you change the weight for a warm up when the goal is to pump blood into the muscle to prepare it for lifting. Do your muscles need less warming up because you are lifting less than the day before?

because you have to warm up for different work set weight on each workout and at some point you will have to do more than 2 warm up sets on "heavy day" and you don't need to do that many on "light day". Or you think warming up with 1x100lb and 1x200lb is enough for 400lb squat? i don't think so

[alacriTEA]

because you have to warm up for different work set weight on each workout and at some point you will have to do more than 2 warm up sets on "heavy day" and you don't need to do that many on "light day". Or you think warming up with 1x100lb and 1x200lb is enough for 400lb squat? i don't think so

In all fairness, this is designed as a beginner's routine... I would imagine that by the time you're doing a 400lb squat you will have moved on since you are no longer a beginner.

[mistrvi]

In all fairness, this is designed as a beginner's routine... I would imagine that by the time you're doing a 400lb squat you will have moved on since you are no longer a beginner.

i know but some will people progress on this routine for really long time and 400lb squat for someone who's lets say 200lb is not a lot tbh. There is a guy in one of the allpro's threads who was on it routine 2009-2011

[DeltaCharlie75]

because you have to warm up for different work set weight on each workout and at some point you will have to do more than 2 warm up sets on "heavy day" and you don't need to do that many on "light day". Or you think warming up with 1x100lb and 1x200lb is enough for 400lb squat? i don't think so

Now it's getting daft. Let's just say people warm up the way that's best for them.

[WFKA]

It really isn't worth this much of an argument... Do whatever you want to do.