AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part III

[FitBeyondForty]

I don't have a squat rack and I've wanted to start this program for a very long time. Are there any alternatives I can do for squats or could I just do jefferson squats? Also it's hard for me to do OHP because I obviously have no where to load / unload the bar / rack or unrack it. Feedback is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

I do not have a rack of any kind either. I use a York 2001 universal for squats for now. For OHP, I start form the floor. I load the weights, pick up with an overhand grip and lift to my waist. From there it's a quick lift to OHP start position.

What weight are you lifting for OHP?

[MrSlippery]

That's why I've started doing. Except don't drink it with water, do it up with white grape juice or apple juice. It may be bro-science, but it seems logical that if you drink it with a bunch of water, you'll just pee it out. The sugars in the juice gives you an insulin spike, helping the creatine absorb into your body. Again, this may all be bro-science but juice tastes better than water when you have to drink a gallon or two of water through out the day. False or not, it makes my taste buds feel better about it.

Just take a swig of juice pour the powder in your mouth, another swig, swish and swallow.

Quick and easy unless the spoon hits your mouth and the powder goes all over your beard.

You should be taking it with something that has sugar in it, as you mentioned you want the insulin spike as a result. I pre-mix it with much grape juice as I cannot seem to just down the powder like that. I mix it so its just enough for 2 large gulps.

[scubahsteve]

Hey man.. I think my biggest problems were i wasn't counting cals, dinner was my biggest meal, and i was not lifting.

I started eating at maintenance, reduced size of dinner and kept track of calories then got down to 230. Did alot of running/ HITT on track/ bleachers 4x's a week no lifting. After this I started eating breakfast (wasnt before) and added snacks like fruits, granola, yogurt, buts. then started cutting at approx -500 cals, started allpro and kept running 3 x's a week and got to 220ish (joined myfitnesspal around this time) and basically kept doing this till i stalled out around 213-215..

Switched meal plan to intermittant fasting on top of the cal deficit and finally broke below 210 yest in morning...

i think the running/ cardio has been a big help too. i do 4-6 mile runs (treadmill/ outdoor) 3/ week on non lifting days which is 600-900 cals every time i run (was training for tough mudder). I also do 10 min elliptical warmup before lifting and 15min HIIT on ellip afterwards..


Like many folks arounds these parts say, results are possible without the cardio with a strict diet, but i would strongly recommend.


My journal ex food intake if your interested:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=148403863

sorry for longwindedness...

Lifting...check, calorie deficit....check, IF....check, tracking calories using MFP...check. I think the only difference is that I'm not doing any type of HIIT or cardio exercise at all. I've been toying with the idea of adding some cardio, just trying to figure out when it would be best to add in and what type...(hate running). Could do some Insanity stuff at home because I don't have much more time than 3x per week to hit the gym.

Thanks for sharing man...appreciate it.

[Tupperwolf]

Lifting...check, calorie deficit....check, IF....check, tracking calories using MFP...check. I think the only difference is that I'm not doing any type of HIIT or cardio exercise at all. I've been toying with the idea of adding some cardio, just trying to figure out when it would be best to add in and what type...(hate running). Could do some Insanity stuff at home because I don't have much more time than 3x per week to hit the gym.

Thanks for sharing man...appreciate it.

Sounds like you are doing everything I've been doing and I've lost 25 lbs. The only thing I don't see you mention is accurately weighing your food before logging. If you are doing this already, great. If not, even though you are tracking calories you could be off by a significant amount if you are measuring your food by volume instead of weight. Cardio won't affect your body composition but, of course, it's always good to do from a health standpoint and if you burn extra calories doing cardio that means you can afford to eat a little more and still be in a deficit. I personally just walk the golf course with my bag a couple of times a week, and occasionally get in the water surfing or swimming for an hour or two. I hate running and I hate spending any time in the gym on any kind of cardio.

The key is that if you're not losing weight, there are only a couple of possible solutions. You're not truly in a deficit, which means you need to count calories better or burn more cals doing cardio. OR you may need to take a diet break if you've been in an extended cut. Your hormones can change over time if you've been cutting for a long time and you may need to increase your calories to around maintenance for a couple of weeks to give your body a chance to recover. JasonDB has an excellent video about the how/why of diet breaks, you can find it in his sticky thread in either the Nutrition or Losing Fat forum.

[AcesUp23]

Lifting...check, calorie deficit....check, IF....check, tracking calories using MFP...check. I think the only difference is that I'm not doing any type of HIIT or cardio exercise at all. I've been toying with the idea of adding some cardio, just trying to figure out when it would be best to add in and what type...(hate running). Could do some Insanity stuff at home because I don't have much more time than 3x per week to hit the gym.

Thanks for sharing man...appreciate it.

You seem to have it together.. try the HIIT on the elliptical.. not a strenuous on the knees plus you keep your upper body engaged and even can watch TV..so minimal boredom. With resistance on elllip set between med/hard I do 1 min steady pace and 2-3 min all out depending on 10 or 15min session

[stevebeans]

I realized that my legs are so weak, I can barely do squats using just my body weight I have decided to go with the sitting squat machine to build up enough muscle to be able to do standing squats.

My question is, is there a rough translation between the two? Obviously standing squats, you have to factor in a good portion of your weight in addition to the bar/weights. Sitting down you just use weights. At what point should I go back to standing squats weighing around 185? On the machine this morning I was pushing up 130, could maybe do 150 on heavy day. I would think once I'm doing at least 200 on the machine it could be safe, or should I aim higher?

Thanks!

[FitBeyondForty]

I realized that my legs are so weak, I can barely do squats using just my body weight I have decided to go with the sitting squat machine to build up enough muscle to be able to do standing squats.

My question is, is there a rough translation between the two? Obviously standing squats, you have to factor in a good portion of your weight in addition to the bar/weights. Sitting down you just use weights. At what point should I go back to standing squats weighing around 185? On the machine this morning I was pushing up 130, could maybe do 150 on heavy day. I would think once I'm doing at least 200 on the machine it could be safe, or should I aim higher?

Thanks!

If you can only do body weight or a little more without using a machine, then do them that way. Doing them standing up also engages other muscles you're not engaging while doing them sitting down.

just my .02

[Tupperwolf]

Agree. If you can only do them with body weight then do them with bodyweight. Challenging yourself is important - we all have to start somewhere.

[dannymctrance]

What is all this about lifting on 'heavy' and light workouts? i thought with this program you just progressed up with the rep range and then upped the weight after rep 9 week??

[whiskeysticks]

What is all this about lifting on 'heavy' and light workouts? i thought with this program you just progressed up with the rep range and then upped the weight after rep 9 week??

Heavy to light days goes as follows...Let's say you work out Monday, Wednesday, Friday. We'll just toss a number out here, let's say bench is 100 pounds. Week 1, your Monday will be 2 sets of 8 reps at 100 pounds after your two warm up sets. On Wednesday, you take 10% off that 100 pounds - so your Wednesday consists of the 2 warm up sets then 2 sets of 8 at 90 pounds - hence, your medium day. Friday is your light day, 20% less than your heavy day. Get in your 2 warm up sets, then hit up your 2 sets of 8 reps at 80 pounds.

The next week is when you do it all over again with the same weight at 9 reps. Continue this through 5 weeks then you have completed your first cycle. Congrats! Assuming you passed each set, we now up the weight on every lift by 10%. Your new weight for heavy days is 110 pounds, medium days it's 100 pounds and light days it's 90. Basically, it's like steps cycle to cycle. Your original heavy becomes your medium after 5 weeks, after another 5 weeks that medium becomes a light day. It's a progression and a damn good one if you're doing it right.

[ngtvenfnty]

I realized that my legs are so weak, I can barely do squats using just my body weight I have decided to go with the sitting squat machine to build up enough muscle to be able to do standing squats.

My question is, is there a rough translation between the two? Obviously standing squats, you have to factor in a good portion of your weight in addition to the bar/weights. Sitting down you just use weights. At what point should I go back to standing squats weighing around 185? On the machine this morning I was pushing up 130, could maybe do 150 on heavy day. I would think once I'm doing at least 200 on the machine it could be safe, or should I aim higher?

Thanks!

Skip the machine and just do the standing squats. A little over a month ago I had trouble doing more than a few reps of air squats as well. To get 7-10 reps was an accomplishment. Your strength and stability will increase quickly in those areas. You are cheating yourself out of developing good balance by using the machine. Free squats work with your legs, hips, abs and back to stabilize you through the movement. The very point of a machine is to isolate the legs and take the strain off the rest of your body. So when you are doing 250 lbs on the machine, it is likely that you will still have trouble doing the body weight squats. Not only that but your risk of injury will be greater because the other muscles have not developed in conjunction with the legs.

Just start squatting your body, today. While cooking stuff in the microwave, or waiting in line at the bank. It is just so easy and effective and it is always available to you.

Even now as I have progressed to weighted standing squats, I end my workout with air squats in rapid cycle with the situp bench and jumping jacks. There is never a time when you should stop squatting your body weight. It is just so fundamental.

[scubahsteve]

Sounds like you are doing everything I've been doing and I've lost 25 lbs. The only thing I don't see you mention is accurately weighing your food before logging. If you are doing this already, great. If not, even though you are tracking calories you could be off by a significant amount if you are measuring your food by volume instead of weight. Cardio won't affect your body composition but, of course, it's always good to do from a health standpoint and if you burn extra calories doing cardio that means you can afford to eat a little more and still be in a deficit. I personally just walk the golf course with my bag a couple of times a week, and occasionally get in the water surfing or swimming for an hour or two. I hate running and I hate spending any time in the gym on any kind of cardio.

The key is that if you're not losing weight, there are only a couple of possible solutions. You're not truly in a deficit, which means you need to count calories better or burn more cals doing cardio. OR you may need to take a diet break if you've been in an extended cut. Your hormones can change over time if you've been cutting for a long time and you may need to increase your calories to around maintenance for a couple of weeks to give your body a chance to recover. JasonDB has an excellent video about the how/why of diet breaks, you can find it in his sticky thread in either the Nutrition or Losing Fat forum.

Great points indeed Tupper. I would say I'm about 80% efficient at calculating the quantity of food intake. I don't weigh everything (or anything really), but if the nutrients are "X" for "XX" amount of product according to nutrition labels, that's what I've been going off of. I scrutinize pretty much every food entry that I enter in MFP that I haven't entered previously. If I go out to eat and the menu says 6 oz baked salmon, that's the weight I enter. Of course a cup is a cup so that's easy enough. Actually I discovered about a week ago that over the course of 30 days my lbs lost reduced from about 1.5 per week to 0-.5 per week. I used the charts in MFP and realized that I was at an average 500 calories BELOW my DEFICIT which coincides with the slowdown of lbs lost. So this past week I've made a conscientious effort to get my calories up to 2300 (500 below maintenance)...I'll see what happens. Before IF, it was fairly easy to reach my required intake of calories. Now during IF, I almost feel as if I'm gorging myself on food since it has to be done in a window of time, hence the reason I wouldn't eat as much. Sorry....off topic info.

Back on Topic....Bring on Cycle III starting tomorrow!

[scubahsteve]

You seem to have it together.. try the HIIT on the elliptical.. not a strenuous on the knees plus you keep your upper body engaged and even can watch TV..so minimal boredom. With resistance on elllip set between med/hard I do 1 min steady pace and 2-3 min all out depending on 10 or 15min session

Doing this program takes me around 40 min light days and about 50-55 min medium/heavy days, so adding another 15 min shouldn't be an issue. I'll give the elliptical a go...they also have a sit down type of elliptical that when you select the right buttons, will alternate between making you go balls out for a set amount of time using only upper body or only lower body. Might give that a go as well.

[lumocolor]

I do not have a rack of any kind either. I use a York 2001 universal for squats for now. For OHP, I start form the floor. I load the weights, pick up with an overhand grip and lift to my waist. From there it's a quick lift to OHP start position.

What weight are you lifting for OHP?

I haven't started lifting for this program yet. I've been planning on it for months and months though.

[lumocolor]

I don't have a squat rack and I've wanted to start this program for a very long time. Are there any alternatives I can do for squats or could I just do jefferson squats? Also it's hard for me to do OHP because I obviously have no where to load / unload the bar / rack or unrack it. Feedback is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Should I just sub out the squats with DB squats and OHP with dumbbell OHP?

[wannagoheavy]

Should I just sub out the squats with DB squats and OHP with dumbbell OHP?

Yes I did 2 cycles with DB last year. just start lifting this week and when you get rack and BB retest lifts and start again!!!

[lumocolor]

Yes I did 2 cycles with DB last year. just start lifting this week and when you get rack and BB retest lifts and start again!!!

Thanks a lot. I'll do SLDL with barbell though.

[Flyman75]

C2W4 medium day in the books. No real struggles today, but the BORs are suddenly a concern this week. I'm not sure if I'll be able to get 12 reps up with good form on heavy day in 5 days. Everything else seems to be good. Curls might be an issue.

I have to say, changing my form with the OHPs to follow Rippetoe's suggested form has been great for me. I went from struggling to get the weight up at 8 and 9 reps to getting them up with no issues at 10 and 11 reps.

[ericmmoore]

So I started this program about 2 weeks ago (currently on my light day in the 9 rep week) and so far so good. I've been working out for about a year and already gained about 20lbs doing other routines (I'm 6'1" and currently weigh about 160, ~10% bodyfat) so I already had a pretty good idea of where I stood for 8 rep max in the first week. My lifts are as follows (on heavy day);

Squat - 115x9
Bench - 105x9
BB Row - 115x9
Overhead BB - 75x9
SL Deadlift - 135x9
EZ Bar Curls - 60x9
Calf Raises - Body Weight+300x9 (after 9 I'm slightly puffed but I could definitely do more and this seems wrong, might I be doing something wrong?)

I recently joined a new gym and just had that introductory session where they basically tell you that you need a personal trainer 4+ times per week and a personal nutritionist and it'll only cost $500/month and during the session I told him what my current routine looked like and I was told I need to be doing more compound exercises to hit the smaller inbetween muscles that this workout looks over. He had me doing things like pushup to burpie to clean to overhead press. He also had me doing other higher rep things that engage the core (something he said wasn't being hit hard enough with these exercises, although I thought almost all of these exercises strengthen the core...) Anyways after about 45 mins of these exercises I noticed my heartrate was really high and it felt like I feel after doing cardio. What I'm wondering is should I incorporate this philosophy into my workouts? Perhaps on one of my off-days instead of the HIIT I've been currently doing (30 sec sprints/30sec jogx8-10) Or is this guy completely talking out of his ass in order to make me feel like I need personal training in order to get the results I want. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Nhayes91]

How do people say this program is too easy? I'm only on my second cycle and I feel like I won't be able to keep increasing pretty soon!


Also, do you have a link to the Rippetoe OHP form? I'm struggling with them and am interested

[whiskeysticks]

I haven't started lifting for this program yet. I've been planning on it for months and months though.

No better time to start than the present!

[scubahsteve]

I have to say, changing my form with the OHPs to follow Rippetoe's suggested form has been great for me. I went from struggling to get the weight up at 8 and 9 reps to getting them up with no issues at 10 and 11 reps.

How do people say this program is too easy? I'm only on my second cycle and I feel like I won't be able to keep increasing pretty soon!


Also, do you have a link to the Rippetoe OHP form? I'm struggling with them and am interested

+1 Was going to ask where to find that as well.

[Flyman75]

Also, do you have a link to the Rippetoe OHP form? I'm struggling with them and am interested

+1 Was going to ask where to find that as well.

Here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAXPJ3PfdyY. It was very helpful for me. Creating the stronger platform he talks about, I found, utilized more of my upper body and core, giving me more strength.

[stevebeans]

Thanks for the advice on the squats. I was planning on doing just body weight at home before the gym but then thought of the sitting squats. I did sitting today but on Friday I'll go back and do standing squats just with body weight. I need to perfect the form anyway.

Heavy to light days goes as follows...Let's say you work out Monday, Wednesday, Friday. We'll just toss a number out here, let's say bench is 100 pounds. Week 1, your Monday will be 2 sets of 8 reps at 100 pounds after your two warm up sets. On Wednesday, you take 10% off that 100 pounds - so your Wednesday consists of the 2 warm up sets then 2 sets of 8 at 90 pounds - hence, your medium day. Friday is your light day, 20% less than your heavy day. Get in your 2 warm up sets, then hit up your 2 sets of 8 reps at 80 pounds.

It's funny you posted this today as I was just explaining to my gf about the program and even used benching 100lbs as an example. The question she had and I really don't have an answer for, what is the science behind the weight drop as the week progresses? I understand the slow progress of 1 rep per week and the 10% gain, but I haven't been able to answer the lowering the weight as the week progresses part.

I checked the FAQ but I didn't see it there. Can anyone summarize or give me a link explaining the theory behind lowering the weight opposed to just keeping the same weight 3x a week then increasing reps each week.

Thanks

[whiskeysticks]

It's funny you posted this today as I was just explaining to my gf about the program and even used benching 100lbs as an example. The question she had and I really don't have an answer for, what is the science behind the weight drop as the week progresses? I understand the slow progress of 1 rep per week and the 10% gain, but I haven't been able to answer the lowering the weight as the week progresses part.

I checked the FAQ but I didn't see it there. Can anyone summarize or give me a link explaining the theory behind lowering the weight opposed to just keeping the same weight 3x a week then increasing reps each week.

Thanks

It's the built in deload of the program. If go balls out three days a week, five weeks per cycle at five cycles your body won't have time to fully recover week to week, day to day. For the most part, you're working your entire body with this program. If you went to the gym 5 times a week, one of those days would be chest. This gives you the rest of the days to have your chest muscles relax while you work the other muscle groups the other days you're in the gym. By deloading, you get recovery time while still working those muscles, just at a lower weight.

If you'll excuse me, I have to go destroy an entire pizza.

[Tupperwolf]

A good explanation from elsewhere: "The routine is programmed using dual factor periodization. It helps with recovery and manages central nervous system and muscle fatigue." You can do some research on dual factor training that may help explain.

You are hitting the whole body hard and doing it 3x a week, many routines use supercompensation training and only train each body part once a week, allowing plenty of time to recover. All Pro designed this routine very specifically to manage long-term progression while still hitting the whole body 3x a week.

[lumocolor]

No better time to start than the present!

I'm starting next week finally, after a year!!

[ericmmoore]

So I started this program about 2 weeks ago (currently on my light day in the 9 rep week) and so far so good. I've been working out for about a year and already gained about 20lbs doing other routines (I'm 6'1" and currently weigh about 160, ~10% bodyfat) so I already had a pretty good idea of where I stood for 8 rep max in the first week. My lifts are as follows (on heavy day);

Squat - 115x9
Bench - 105x9
BB Row - 115x9
Overhead BB - 75x9
SL Deadlift - 135x9
EZ Bar Curls - 60x9
Calf Raises - Body Weight+300x9 (after 9 I'm slightly puffed but I could definitely do more and this seems wrong, might I be doing something wrong?)

I recently joined a new gym and just had that introductory session where they basically tell you that you need a personal trainer 4+ times per week and a personal nutritionist and it'll only cost $500/month and during the session I told him what my current routine looked like and I was told I need to be doing more compound exercises to hit the smaller inbetween muscles that this workout looks over. He had me doing things like pushup to burpie to clean to overhead press. He also had me doing other higher rep things that engage the core (something he said wasn't being hit hard enough with these exercises, although I thought almost all of these exercises strengthen the core...) Anyways after about 45 mins of these exercises I noticed my heartrate was really high and it felt like I feel after doing cardio. What I'm wondering is should I incorporate this philosophy into my workouts? Perhaps on one of my off-days instead of the HIIT I've been currently doing (30 sec sprints/30sec jogx8-10) Or is this guy completely talking out of his ass in order to make me feel like I need personal training in order to get the results I want. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Just don't want this to get lost in the abyss, anyone have any insight?

[krispradez]

I'm starting next week finally, after a year!!

what did you do the whole year? read the 20k++ pages from part I and II? i cant blame you :-)

[Tupperwolf]

Spending $6000 a year on some cheeky **** that makes you do burpees in the gym sounds like a bad decision to me.

This routine doesn't work the core enough? What a joke. A trainer telling you that should discredit everything he said before and after. Sure, there are plenty of other exercises you can do for the core, but for the beginners that this routine is designed for, that would be a mistake - IMO. Every exercise in here uses the core if you're using proper form, even bench press.